Borrow System

prfctdark

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Sep 10, 2008
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31
Hi,

I've been reading around and noticed many incidents in which people do a trade because they trust someone and get their item stolen,and I began wondering if MA should implement a borrow system.

Basically it would be similar to trade,but only one window instead of two for the person to insert the item they are lending out(to prevent people from selling you an item they are lending out),and then can set a time or date in which the item will be returned to their inventory.The item would be unsellable,untradable,and undroppable(like VSE MK1) while lent but still repairable.

Any thoughts/comments?
 
i like the idea behind this, but on the other hand i think it will have a bigger influence to the eco of EU. If you can lent to easy your dream setup, many ppl aren't willing to pay bigger amounts.
 
Hi,

I've been reading around and noticed many incidents in which people do a trade because they trust someone and get their item stolen,and I began wondering if MA should implement a borrow system.

Basically it would be similar to trade,but only one window instead of two for the person to insert the item they are lending out(to prevent people from selling you an item they are lending out),and then can set a time or date in which the item will be returned to their inventory.The item would be unsellable,untradable,and undroppable(like VSE MK1) while lent but still repairable.

Any thoughts/comments?

Not a bad idea, and it's been mentioned many times.

would mess with the value of things though, as borrowing might prevent people from wanting to buy.

So, it's probably not happening.
 
Its been discussed before and yes it would be good and bad at the same time. Sure you could loan out things securely but it would also kill the market at the same time. There would be hundreds of items loaned out and then there would be less reason to buy your items just borrow them from guild/friends.

Edit: Guess there are more that feel the same and i type slow so was late on posting , lol
 
i think it's a great idea have done for ages.

I see people say it may influence the economy of the game as people won't buy expensive items they will just lend them off a friend or hire them.. so who from? Who will they lend or hire these expensive items from? I would say those who have bought them wouldnt you :) if no one buys the items how in gods name can anyone just lend them?

You can not tell me that everyone in the game is on the verge of buying an ML-35 for instance or an Imp fap as there just isnt enough, but i would say many would liek to borrow one or hire one for the day or week.

All of a sudden you have all these higher end or uber items that the owners can lend out or hire out with no risks, they can make a little business out of it, which in turn makes the items hold there value or maybe even go up in value.

Meanwhile MA suddently have armours and weapons causing decay that were in storage doing nothing at all.

If when you chose the trade window it had trade/lend and you chose lend you then can enter a date where the item instantly comes back to your inventory, or if you have lent it to a friend and you need it and they arent logged in you can click the retrieve button anytime to get your stuff back.

There would be pro's n con's obviously but i dont think the economy would suffer as i can go hire a ferrari or lamborghini if i have the money and im pretty sure they still sell to the public :)

People with money will always want to own rather than lend, but for us poor slobs it would be nice to be able to lend or hire from a mate, who knows.. once you have tasted a set of borrowed shadow the person may then decide to save and buy a set.

Would be intersting to see.
 
Not a bad idea, and it's been mentioned many times.

would mess with the value of things though, as borrowing might prevent people from wanting to buy.

So, it's probably not happening.

i think the biggest problem would be people not wanting to sell and live off the rent for ever
 
has been discussed before, will never happen, MA doesn't want it.
 
i think the biggest problem would be people not wanting to sell and live off the rent for ever

Along with the fact that prices of the rentable items and other items like it would go down massivly... (L) items would be harder to sell, making it harder for crafters and hunters to sell their stuff
 
Another game I play has this system implemented and it works perfectly now...no more borrowing scams and theft ....MA needs this !
 
Another game I play has this system implemented and it works perfectly now...no more borrowing scams and theft ....MA needs this !

But if for example high-level miners then rent/borrow unlimited amps much more, instead of buying (L) ones, those who craft amps would have a harder time selling them and therefore have an even smaller chance of profiting from it...
 
It's been discussed a lot...

Major cons to the idea:
- makes the huge database MA handles much, much, much larger.
- makes MA more responsible for trading things then their current excuse that "all trades are final" - a liability they don't want to take on.
- opens up the potential for scammers to tell n00bs they are trading when they are actually paying peds for some rental...
- opens up a huge pyramid scheme to the way things work since rentals on unlimited items that have been around for a long time will be in the hands of the few who will profit off of them a lot
- with cars coming... opens up a huge car rental market - let's not make EU as prone to used car scams as we are irl.
 
2nd new thread on this... i dont think ma wants the owners of modfaps+modmercs and other uber items to be able to 'lend' them out so freely, plus i think it would lower the value of these items as well.

and whats normally done to prevent 'scamers' is to ask for collateral for items :eyecrazy:
 
Hi,

I've been reading around and noticed many incidents in which people do a trade because they trust someone and get their item stolen,and I began wondering if MA should implement a borrow system.

Basically it would be similar to trade,but only one window instead of two for the person to insert the item they are lending out(to prevent people from selling you an item they are lending out),and then can set a time or date in which the item will be returned to their inventory.The item would be unsellable,untradable,and undroppable(like VSE MK1) while lent but still repairable.

Any thoughts/comments?

As you asked Any comments? so here it goes from my side :p

I think it would broke down Entropia economy down totaly, imagine like this, peoples who is now selling MM for 170kped (?) wont be able to sell for that market because the person (buyer) wont be thinking about buying it, he would think of Borowing it in borowing window.
In that case seller of MM wont be asking 170k ped because he knows nobody wannts to buy for that price. I think it would be cool because items price would go down like 40-60% for sure and after some time many peoples (not totaly ubers ones) could afford the MM by them sellfs.

Well, looking from side of not rich players it is good thing that the prices would go down so they can play Entropia with way much better gear and equipment, but i think it would hit the whole Entropia.

I think Entropia is the best MMORPG game because of the unique for everything, that includes very high real $ value of items.

Afterall i think it would be nice, Entropia would become like old real first Entropia, where you could buy Nemesis armor for 200-300ped(?), Shadow could cost like 20k ped (lol), It would get A LOT MORE new players, but the game economy would go realy down... down...down... And MA/FPC wont be happy at all :D

I guess long time ago when MA profited lets say 150k$ a year, and now they profit 600k$ a year ( with all fees and shity prices) they would feel bad if they back to 150k$ a year :D

You know... Why to get less when you know you can get 10x more :p its all about money
 
It's been discussed a lot...

Major cons to the idea:
- makes the huge database MA handles much, much, much larger.
- makes MA more responsible for trading things then their current excuse that "all trades are final" - a liability they don't want to take on.

I could agree with that, if MA would make theyr data base special for tradings chats etc it would make much much easyer to find who's scammer whos not

In this one i wont agree, tradings is quite safe now, you have to confirm your trade 2 time to make a trade final. When person lends his item to the person that he "knows very well" it is his own problem. Specialy if you are depositor it means you are age 18+... so it means you are adult ad you understand your actions. It's like IRL, if you are 18yrs and older and you your "best friend" steals a car or a motorcicle from you, your parrents wont be doing to police, it is you who would go and right a report
 
This would actually be quite hard to implement. There would have to be an extra property for every single item which said if it was on loan and from whom. Only certain items would be loanable (just think if you could "borrow" ammo, use it and later on the lender would get it back). There would have to be some way of paying the lender for the decay. If it is paid in advance when you borrow what happens if you have not used all the decay you paid for by the time-up date (the lender may not have any PED at that point)?If it is to be paid when the lender gets it back, what happens if you have no ped at that point?
Incidentally, I thought this is what the banks were set up for, but I don't think they were/are very successful.
There are other things which are more important to be implemented first I think.
 
There is a rental / hiring system which is likely to cover most items etc in the works ;) Could enable lending items out for coloring purposes etc maybe. This was confirmed in Twins by FPC official on open chat some time ago. Then again, it waaaas only confirmed by fpc after all :D
 
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Hi,

I've been reading around and noticed many incidents in which people do a trade because they trust someone and get their item stolen,and I began wondering if MA should implement a borrow system.

Basically it would be similar to trade,but only one window instead of two for the person to insert the item they are lending out(to prevent people from selling you an item they are lending out),and then can set a time or date in which the item will be returned to their inventory.The item would be unsellable,untradable,and undroppable(like VSE MK1) while lent but still repairable.

Any thoughts/comments?

Maybe use search since this subject has been beaten to a pulp.:wise:
MA looses out on a lending system so it probably will never happen.
 
I am for such a system as long as it doesn't influence the current economy that much. Meaning that fees are so high that the only reason you would want to hire is for fun, not for being eco.
 
I could agree with that, if MA would make theyr data base special for tradings chats etc it would make much much easyer to find who's scammer whos not

MindArk still can't do much about scammers.

If you have given an item to someone ingame, how do they know that you didn't get paid for it outside the game and then wanted to have both the item and money back and therefore just call "Scammer!"?
 
Hi,

I've been reading around and noticed many incidents in which people do a trade because they trust someone and get their item stolen,and I began wondering if MA should implement a borrow system.

Basically it would be similar to trade,but only one window instead of two for the person to insert the item they are lending out(to prevent people from selling you an item they are lending out),and then can set a time or date in which the item will be returned to their inventory.The item would be unsellable,untradable,and undroppable(like VSE MK1) while lent but still repairable.

Any thoughts/comments?

Yo thank you for putting it so beautifully, noway to say it better top marks :).
i think it's a great idea have done for ages.

I see people say it may influence the economy of the game as people won't buy expensive items they will just lend them off a friend or hire them.. so who from? Who will they lend or hire these expensive items from? I would say those who have bought them wouldnt you :) if no one buys the items how in gods name can anyone just lend them?

You can not tell me that everyone in the game is on the verge of buying an ML-35 for instance or an Imp fap as there just isnt enough, but i would say many would liek to borrow one or hire one for the day or week.

All of a sudden you have all these higher end or uber items that the owners can lend out or hire out with no risks, they can make a little business out of it, which in turn makes the items hold there value or maybe even go up in value.

Meanwhile MA suddently have armours and weapons causing decay that were in storage doing nothing at all.

If when you chose the trade window it had trade/lend and you chose lend you then can enter a date where the item instantly comes back to your inventory, or if you have lent it to a friend and you need it and they arent logged in you can click the retrieve button anytime to get your stuff back.

There would be pro's n con's obviously but i dont think the economy would suffer as i can go hire a ferrari or lamborghini if i have the money and im pretty sure they still sell to the public :)

People with money will always want to own rather than lend, but for us poor slobs it would be nice to be able to lend or hire from a mate, who knows.. once you have tasted a set of borrowed shadow the person may then decide to save and buy a set.

Would be intersting to see.
Super Agree with this dnt see nothing wrong here :D
Another game I play has this system implemented and it works perfectly now...no more borrowing scams and theft ....MA needs this !
Amen Sister! Give me high 5 ;).

~Mark~
 
would mess with the value of things though, as borrowing might prevent people from wanting to buy.

So, it's probably not happening.

unless you make long term borrowing more expensive than buying.

so its only usefull for short term borrowing
 
I know you mean well but this has well and truly been beat to death. You might have had fun resurrecting an old thread on the subject, though. For example, here, FPC's Community Representative (in her previous life) started a thread on the same subject. It received a comment from Marco|FPC:
There is always a chance for it - however, it is not a priority right now in any way. Why? Because it is a very, very, complex system, and one that have to work in any possible situation. I am not saying it cannot be done, I am just stating that we currently elect to put the MA development resources into other areas instead, as we believe that will bring more and better content to PE as a whole.

Enterprising colonists have organised their own versions of lending systems. You can rent most of the better items in EU from https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/services/56980-h-r-circle.html, which meets the exact need as described by Witte, hence i don't think there's any point in MA putting the considerable resources into this that would be needed.
 
It's been discussed a lot...

Major cons to the idea:
- opens up the potential for scammers to tell n00bs they are trading when they are actually paying peds for some rental...

Not necessarily I mean the borrow and trade windows cud be different colors with even more warning signs "you are using the borrow system, be adviced when dealing over money" sort of thing :).
As you asked Any comments? so here it goes from my side :p
I think Entropia is the best MMORPG game because of the unique for everything, that includes very high real $ value of items.
Afterall i think it would be nice, Entropia would become like old real first Entropia, where you could buy Nemesis armor for 200-300ped(?), Shadow could cost like 20k ped (lol), It would get A LOT MORE new players, but the game economy would go realy down... down...down... And MA/FPC wont be happy at all :D

Oh I can only hope that this happens :laugh:.
Only certain items would be loanable (just think if you could "borrow" ammo, use it and later on the lender would get it back). There would have to be some way of paying the lender for the decay.

Well then just exclude ammo... or only items that actually decay rather than being used wud work fine...no?
Maybe use search since this subject has been beaten to a pulp.:wise:
MA looses out on a lending system so it probably will never happen.

What on calypso are you talking about roughrider, whenever people do face to face trades how does MA profit from that???
I am for such a system as long as it doesn't influence the current economy that much. Meaning that fees are so high that the only reason you would want to hire is for fun, not for being eco.
yep nothing wrong with a lil fun thats why were all here right? :).

~Mark~
 
Not much need to comment further. Seems like everyone covered it pretty good. While it would be good for a few players it would hurt the majority even more and certainly be bad for MA and the EU economy.
 
Interesting...

Wow well looking at peoples comments so far it seems this has been drummed in a couple times already. I didnt think so many people would have strong feelings against such a system. I personally would like it as it removes any risk in lending out stuff without collaterol. So no collateral & just have the service charge would make things a lot easier for me & future clients for sure. Well I guess my questions have been answered about this & TY all for your input on this topic.

~Mark~
 
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MindArk still can't do much about scammers.

If you have given an item to someone ingame, how do they know that you didn't get paid for it outside the game and then wanted to have both the item and money back and therefore just call "Scammer!"?

That is easy, isin't selling items, equipment and PED's outside the game illigall? against EULA ? Or i am wrong. (sry if i am)
 
this is something MA should consider strongly in the next few years; in the real world you can make legal contacts for renting 'borrowing' of pretty much anything, which protects the lender and can be beneficial for all parties.

I think in MA does not take this into account they will lose out, people who want to rent out a LA will simply contact a RL solicitor, or even get in touch with in game solicitors who understand the game dynamics more and get them to write up legally binding contacts to allow the rent and borrow of items. Like when CP came up for sale, this was really pushed hard for.

We are already seeing RL creep into IG more and more, i hear about people taking insurance out of in game items against theft of them more and more, solicitors can make contacts about anything if the price is right; i dont feel as if they care if the item is real or not...

of course i dont fully understand the legal system, but I think if there are any RL solicitors out there reading this, i say take note, and have a think about this seriously, certainly could earn yourself some money here before MA finally get up to date with what people want. (something they are improving on a lot)

What entropia needs right away is an in game reputation system and a viewable/scannable, date of avater creation, were users can be +/- rep'ed depending on there actions, and trust can be built around it.

- Matthew
 
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What on calypso are you talking about roughrider, whenever people do face to face trades how does MA profit from that???
~Mark~

The unwillingness to Lend out more expensive items due to the need for 100% collateral or a lot of trust makes people more lightly to buy equipment that they can afford. If I can just rent MM, adj fapp and a nice EON set just for a hunt or two then why would I bother buying the rutuba I have now that I use when hunting high end mobs?
That means a few k peds per month that I dont spend.
If renting is cheaper then everybody will do it and prices will dropp, unless the people renting them out earn a nice profit from rental service in which case circulation of those objects will minimize.

If I rent an (L) item then I will pay decay+mu+rental fee. Not many (L) items out there are worth it, better to buy therefore most rentals will be with (UL) items, that might affect prices on (L) items.

Hope you get what I mean.

Steven :)
 
That is easy, isin't selling items, equipment and PED's outside the game illigall? against EULA ? Or i am wrong. (sry if i am)

Not for equipment, it's just not recommended due to the possibility of being scammed. PEDs might be. Don't really remember anymore.

Not really on topic anyway. :)

There are almost uncountable other improvements that would have a higher ROI for MA and FPC in this game than a lending system.
 
Hi,

I've been reading around and noticed many incidents in which people do a trade because they trust someone and get their item stolen,and I began wondering if MA should implement a borrow system.

Basically it would be similar to trade,but only one window instead of two for the person to insert the item they are lending out(to prevent people from selling you an item they are lending out),and then can set a time or date in which the item will be returned to their inventory.The item would be unsellable,untradable,and undroppable(like VSE MK1) while lent but still repairable.

Any thoughts/comments?



Great idea....but i dont think it would happen because it would be less money to MA.:D
 
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