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Question: Why do ppl spend lotsa peds on UL wep thats worse than L ones???

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Piotr

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I recently got into an argument with some of my socmates about L n UL guns. I saw lr48 at auction with +6,5k bid on it. They kept sayin they dont pay mu n whatever n i shouldnt make this kinda thread, but here r the facts:

Apis@125% + dante= 59.5 dps and 2.84 dpp
UL lr48+106= 42.7 dps and 2.856 dpp

So lr has slighty better dpp but lot less dps(more def/regen cost), also lr has only 38 hits per min, means overkill is bigger than with apis.

But the most funny thing is when ppl with ~lvl6x hit n damage prof r using adjv1 n saying its eco gun for them.

Want to know ppl opinion about this (ofc there r good UL guns too but i wouldnt consider lr48 as one)
 
As long as your numbers above are correct, you seem to hit a valid point.

1) Problem comes, when Apis rises in price or
2) when there is no (L) rifle available to buy in auction or shop
3) Especially when you plan to travel a lot to different planets, this becomes a BIG issue
4) If you plan to tier the unlimited weapon this is a big difference (higher tier rates = big difference in % plus it's often hard to reach tier 5 in a limited rifle)

So it all depends basically on two things:
1) how you play
2) what you THINK the future will bring
 
You are now comparing apples with peares. Compare Apis (L) with Apis (unL) or LR48 (L) with LR48 (unL).

Now, there are some arguments for using unlimited weapons, but I assume you've heard them already.
1. No need to buy a new weapon every other day.
2. Buy one for +6.5k, sell it next year for +6.5k. Price remains stable most of the time.
3. When all you want to use is an LR48, the unL version will one day pay for itself. All you need to do is calculate how many LR48 (L) you can buy if the total markup is 6500.

PS. Who ever claimed an Adj V1 is eco, ever? I am using old skool weapons, but I won't say I am eco.

:):handgun::)
 
It's really simple... L can't be repaired. When it breaks, it's a pain in the butt to find a new one in a shop, in a trade, or in the auction... UL items can be repaired, so even if they cost a lot up front, they are a long term investment. Just got to find a repair terminal. Additionally, the UL item can be sold later for the same amount you bought it for, so you can get your money back if you are patient and persistant. ... can't do that with L items so much.

The really best stuff in game, in my opinion, is the UL Sib stuff, not the old school, non sib stuff... which is why prices on UL sib is way up there compared to their L counterparts... and also why prices on old school stuff seems to be dropping like a rock since the L came along, and even more now that the tier system has been fixed so you don't lose a second item, or even have to have a second item to do the tier up process. Can't beat 10/10 HA on a tier 10 item that can be repaired any time you want to repair it! :)
 
keep in mind that if you kepe buying full TT lr48s (L) over and over again you might lose 100peds or more ecah time ^^ and using a full lr in one day is no biggie
 
I can see some valid point, not enough though. I compare apis L to lr48 UL , not lr48 L to lr48 UL. I think the lack of availability isnt good reason for a wep like apis L and i think tiering lr48 UL is for gettin more dps but if u put dmg enhancer in it u lose dpp and will have still less dps than apis L. For PVP i would understand but then again, buying skills from lr48 markup n buying lr63 or 66 L is still better i think.
I can see the practical side of UL lr48, no doubt, but i like peds more than having sthing practical ;)
 
I got a small example why i rather go shooting with a IMP LR32 Ul then Apis with Dante during the trox mission.

I need 90 APIS guns to complete which is around 18k decay cost
I got the same decay cost with the imp but during that time it tiers and i dont ahve to wait till auction gives me apis guns at a good markup so i can hunt more and faster

It is kinda the waiting on a crafter which is bothering me.
 
because we can, can, can ...

Why do people do a lot of the shit, they do in this game ? :scratch:

Some people spend more on a box of pixels to heal their e-health, than I do on my car all year.

Some people have spent more than others will make in a lifetime on a fake asteroid ...

.. because they can, can, can.
 
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If you have an UL gun you WILL be able to create more turnover (->skills/loot) in comparison to (l) weapon which is allways good! Ohh yeah and your BLP/laser comparison sucks btw. :rolleyes:
With BLP rifle u can create more turnover than with Laser... but that is the advantage of BLP and not of (l) damnit.
Laser has other advantages....
 
cool

Thanks for the input by everyone. I always want to get one and know I will save more overtime, but still rather just pay less each time (with more MU) than fork out the 6k for one purchase. I always find a gun I need on auction, but sometimes the MU is high as crap. A gun like LR48 would be perfect in my opinion because it's just right for most mobs if you throw on an amp
 
DavinFelth said:
Thanks for the input by everyone. I always want to get one and know I will save more overtime, but still rather just pay less each time (with more MU) than fork out the 6k for one purchase. I always find a gun I need on auction, but sometimes the MU is high as crap. A gun like LR48 would be perfect in my opinion because it's just right for most mobs if you throw on an amp
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Markup will always depend on the crafter, and on MA since MA determines what loot is available. If you don't like relying ont he crappy loot system that causes the high MU, UL items is the way to go.
 
I'd have to agree with you that apis + dante makes more sense in almost every way.
However, some people just don't like (L) things, even if they're better.

When trying to understand why some people do things, statistics don't matter :p
 
Well for UL weapons in general it depends a lot on which eco / total Markup a given combo gives you (L) versus UL.
Let me explain: IT would be utterly nonsense to buy an UL P5a ( there was one in auc for 45k BO or something like that a few weeks ago :D ) when you can get the gun for 105% and it's almost always available cheap in auc.
The only enhancment the UL version here is to have a gun which can be repaired.

For guns >= HL8 this is a whole different story. Same for Melee. When you hunt seriously with Blades > Rutic Slo an UL blade is almost mandatory.
 
Piotr said:
I can see some valid point, not enough though.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know how long you have been in EU and how much you hunt. This is no offense... but:
Apis has jumped from 123% to 132% and then went back down to 125%... you never know what happens. This is why people like me try to get their hands on Unlimited SIB weapons. We are lazy and we believe, over several months or years, we safe money.

You say, our arguments are not enough... which shows, you don't get the point:
For ME an unlimited SIB weapon is better. For you not. Because we are different persons. You should respect that. You asked why people do this and we told you. So there is no reason to give "enough arguments".


Oh, yes, and because we can, thanks @YourMom :D
 
Let me explain: IT would be utterly nonsense to buy an UL P5a ( there was one in auc for 45k BO or something like that a few weeks ago ) when you can get the gun for 105% and it's almost always available cheap in auc.
Click to expand...
Maybe for you, that's a bit high, for others, maybe not. Not all items are always cheap in auction, nor are they always in the auction. I'm probably one of the few people that likes low level UL Sib. I love the fact that my UL Viper whip can be repaired over and over and over again. Try counting the number of L vipers you see on auction for about 3 month stretch... Would be very difficult to skill on only that if you always bought it from the auction... same goes for other UL stuff. Another example... lets say Embra C1. Count those that show up in auction for about 6 months... would need to count for longer since a lot of those are down in prices now as many don't like the high TT value they tie up... so they show up more often as many don't want to hold the hot potato.
 
I do not buy UL SIB weapons. That being said, if I had the money, there re some that I would buy. And not just weapons. A good example is the Vivo T10. I like to use it healing as it gives a good heal/value ratio but it costs 140% to 150% mu. If I had unlimited, healing would be cheaper after all is said and done.

The same goes for some UL weapons, but of course, not for all of them.
 
Yes I've been wondering the same thing. People who say "It will pay off".. no.. no.. and hell no! it doesn't!

Most L versions have low enough MU for its NATURAL Eco to be better than the unL version!

Quick example which many can relate to:
P5a (L) has 2.831 Avg Dmg/ PEC (This is WITH the 108% MU you pay when buying the gun)
P5a unL has 2.812 Avg Dmg/ PEC

So you're spending(investing i suppose) alot of money for a LESSER gun!
 
mastermesh said:
Maybe for you, that's a bit high, for others, maybe not. Not all items are always cheap in auction, nor are they always in the auction. I'm probably one of the few people that likes low level UL Sib. I love the fact that my UL Viper whip can be repaired over and over and over again. Try counting the number of L vipers you see on auction for about 3 month stretch... Would be very difficult to skill on only that if you always bought it from the auction... same goes for other UL stuff. Another example... lets say Embra C1. Count those that show up in auction for about 6 months... would need to count for longer since a lot of those are down in prices now as many don't like the high TT value they tie up... so they show up more often as many don't want to hold the hot potato.
Click to expand...

Well i wasn't talking about UL SIB in general but a specific case. I own 3 UL SIB items, one even rare though not high level and i'm glad i have them, but in a case of a very common used weapon ( see above) I think it's nonsense and for sure not worth the asking price because the (L) counterpart is 1.) more eco 2.) Better guns available for half the price. 3.) Since i started playing ever available for a cheap price thus not a money safer
But as i said. There are cases where it'S not nonsense imho.

Ah and i believe it was too high for everyone else as well, otherwise it would have been sold ;)

Cheers
 
So you're spending(investing i suppose) alot of money for a LESSER gun!
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yes, but, whatcha gonna do when that L weapon of yours decays to the point it's not usable, and you can't find another one since no one is selling it as MA has stopped dropping the ingredients needed to make it?

Well i wasn't talking about UL SIB in general but a specific case. I own 3 UL SIB items, one even rare though not high level and i'm glad i have them, but in a case of a very common used weapon ( see above I think it's nonsense and for sure not worth the asking price because the (L) counterpart is 1.) more eco 2.) Better guns available for half the price.
But as i said. There are cases where it'S not nonsense imho.
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Exactly... on stuff that you can get HA 10/10 it's definitely worth it, especially if it's not something that's common... so there ya go. I love my viper, and cb5. I ditched the loughlin 1 since it just wasn't that much better then a TT blade, just a higher TT value. Can't really afford the TT value on a c1 or loughlin 3 yet, well, at least not without selling my shop or shopkeeper, but if I did have the peds in game, sure why not since the markup on that has dropped like a rock....

Also ditched the s30, but that was because I owed someone some peds, and they were willing to take it instead of actual peds in a trade. I will likely buy another s30 back someday. I try to hunt eco, so going any higher then this for now is pointless for me... just skill up on this UL stuff for several years, and might look in to the market again in 5-10 years after my skills have gone way up. Having UL s30 and cb5 is something every hunter should try to do eventually since it's just nice to have something to shoot when you loot blp ammo. Yes, the markup is a bit high, and is falling, but it's probably something you'll use for decades since it's not likely blp ammo will ever leave the loot pool.
 
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@Mastermesh, with current MUs theres ALOT of options which will grant you cheap damage compared to the unL versions. With similiar level reqs and dps! And when you go with L weapons you can adapt your play alot better to what mob you're hunting so that your hunts stay as optimal as possible.

There are NO advantage in buying an unL weapon except that you won't have to buy a new one (which really isn't that hard even if you just BO it on auction)


To argue that its nice to have one when you jump planets; well how many p5as can you buy for that MU you initial pay? If you can afford the unL version you certainly can afford to stock up on quite a few copies of the L version.


Oh and, only weapon I'd concider buying would be a MOD LR32 because they're quite hard to find L ;) But with the current price I it wouldn't be worth it as I'd outgrow the gun before it'll be worth it
 
Well ok how do i determine wether ul sib is worth the price for me or not:
1. Research the (L) availability ( usuall i know already )
2. Determine Regular and peak Markups ( Peaks e.g. on Events like Isis HL >= 11 )
3. Check Eco of UL versus eco of non peak MU
4. calculate wether the gun is a money safer or just bringing comfort of availability / repairable
5. Check if i can compensate availability by anticyclic buying ( buy when cheap on stock to avoid peak MU - yes ties up PEDs, but UL SIB with MU+ High TT also )
6. Decide wether an item is worth the asking price

Ofc. provided my PEDCard supports the purchase.

Cheers
 
Why do people hate french people? berets, refusal to speak english, forfeit in ww2 etc
Why do people shoot heroin? Makes you feel good(?)
Why do people hate Justin Bieber? gay
Why do people use Unlimited Laser carbines instead of Limited BLP rifles? Cause the might want to skill laser sniper?

Why do.... why do..... why...

The list goes on... Alot of unexplainable mysteries
 
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Jennson said:
Well ok how do i determine wether ul sib is worth the price for me or not:
1. Research the (L) availability ( usuall i know already )
2. Determine Regular and peak Markups ( Peaks e.g. on Events like Isis HL >= 11 )
3. Check Eco of UL versus eco of non peak MU
4. calculate wether the gun is a money safer or just bringing comfort of availability / repairable
5. Check if i can compensate availability by anticyclic buying ( buy when cheap on stock to avoid peak MU - yes ties up PEDs, but UL SIB with MU+ High TT also )
6. Decide wether an item is worth the asking price

Ofc. provided my PEDCard supports the purchase.

Cheers
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Ditto that.

And ill add one more. I also run calculations on ped turnover and how much you save. Then compare that to my turnover and see how much i could reasonably expect to save over my lifetime use of the item. I do not consider markup investment to be sound on items. So if i cant show a sizable savings in relation to its markup, i don't consider the item. If it saves me 1000 ped on 10 years of projection but has a 10k markup....then forget it.

There are cases where UL SIB makes NO sense, like the p5a example, there are lots more. It does make sense at the higher end ones tho. Like the higher HLs that have a lot of markup or availability issues, the uls win.

For me personally it boils down to eco. Buying limited weapons doesn't phase me in the least, i don't care if they always break and i have to keep buying them. For that reason as long as they win in eco i don't even consider the UL versions.
 
I wonder why everyone wants to tell us,. that it's stupid to buy unlimited things?

I give you some examples:
VRex2k SGA... hard to find VRex2ks on auction and especially without markup.
Firefly(L)... low MU, yes, but when you find one?
Dragon Breath (L): also low MU but never on auction

enough examples? :) There are tons more. OP asked "why do ppl buy them", well here are reasons. But obviously you won't hear reasons, you want to hear arguments, why it's stupid, so here you go:

I have too many PEDs so I buy them.

(This is not true, but maybe that's what they want to hear. :))
 
I bought mine because at my age I had to buy something. A convertible sportscar + 20 year old starlet or a UL gun. I bought the UL gun because that choice was much much cheaper. :sniper::monkey:
 
I wonder why everyone wants to tell us,. that it's stupid to buy unlimited things?
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could also be because they rely on selling L gear and/or the resources that are used to create that gear .... ;)

I don't nor probably ever will buy pricey UL gear because the low level high HA stuff suits my gaming style fine at the moment. ... however, 5-20 bucks above tt is nice for stuff like th s30, cb5, etc. ... cost of about a meal IRL so you don't have to screw around in watching the auction and can just get on with hunting is nice... not to mention how much you'll ultimately save in ME costs since you high TT UL gear will last for a loooooooong time, so no need to do a lot of TPing back to a terminal if you repair it fully before you head out. If there was more supply of UL Sib gear out there, I might actually focus my shop on it someday...
 
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i imagine most people buy unl for 2 reasons. save time of not looking for new gear and save markup. i spent some peds on some unl sga drills. using them saves me about 500 to 700 peds a month compared to other drills and depending on how much i mine. the amp i have saves about 400 to 600 ped a month.

kosmos

ps i say that about unl but when it comes to armor i think L is better lol
 
What makes ul weapons, well some ul weapons anyway, valuable in my opinion, is the implementation of the tiering system. Before that, there weren't many ul guns that I'd pay money for, now however, things have changed. Id love to have even an ul korss h400, which isn't that great a gun for the more kinda stuff I'm hunting, however, an ul t10 korss h440 is quite a different matter. It's basically and eco version of x1+dante with a very low level requirement. It is true though that enhancers cost money too, however, I believe, and so do a lot of other people, that it's easily worth it.

IF there was no tiering system though, the only ul guns I'd be interested in would be guns like MM, adj v1, maybe imk2, x5, cb26 and I'd never be considering spending the about of money that they go for.
 
i need more turnover on my current gun b4 I can & will make a statement, but there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet.
Each L item you tt when it's empty has some mu you also tt, something to add to you're calculations.
Also here, there's a diffrence between crafted & looted as the looted ones are rarely full TT to start with
 
Smoerble said:
I wonder why everyone wants to tell us,. that it's stupid to buy unlimited things?
...
Click to expand...

Ah no one says that in general. PPl are just pointing out cases why they think some UL stuff is not worth in their opinion and other UL stuff is. And telling the reasons why they think so
 
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