Who is in charge of monitoring planet partners?

With the arrival of new planets, it brings some serious questions of balance to the universe. Are the limitations to which the planets partners can create?

Mjukis makes a great point here:

mjukis said:

Lemmy and Kevin Rudolf owning land in Rocktropia or any other planet in Entropia is fine, they are not the employee of any planet partner as far as I know and they have no power to manipulate any portion of the game to their advantage.
Neverdie is now in a position where many of the choices he and the rest of Neverdie Studios make will impact the value and profitability of their privately owned land area within the world. No employee of a planet partner should have the value of their personal assets being affected by the choices they make developing the game.
Allowing employees to have ownership of any asset in game is obviously a liability. And allowing payment to employees in the form of in world assets is just outrageous. Regardless if it's shared between a team of employees or a single person.
It's scary to me that there is no policy in place to prevent this. It's only a matter of time before someone exploits this to the fullest, and that could have devastating effects on the game economy.

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Here are some questions, that should be answered before I, or anyone chooses to put money into anything in this game. Otherwise, the players are at a severe disadvantage and do not have the full knowledge of how estates or items in the game will be valued/devalued from the capabilities, knowledge, and advantages that planet partners have over regular players.

How many land areas are they allowed to create ?
What limitations are there for their creation of DNA?

How many hangars are they allowed to create?

How many Banks are they allowed to create?

How many malls are they allowed to create?

Does it cost them anything to create any of these?

Very interesting question which needs to be answered to many people's satisfaction.

I await the answer as well. If they are able to self award themselves with LAs and other stuff, it is only diluting what others own.

And they will have some inherent advantages to knowing when the updates will take place, with new LAs, BPs, Malls, Banks, Shops, Apartments, minerals, ores, etc. That will allow them to predict prices and take advantage in ways not possible for the rest.

Exactly, on both parts... There should be SEVERE limitations in place.

Same as always....silence and uncertainty is what we'll get.

Great questions, and mjukis makes some very valid points regarding conflict of interest on page 10 in a discussion going on here.

well quite frankly, when I a player buy a land area from either mind ark or another player and pay out tremendous amounts of money to other players to complete a DNA sample, i become rather confused how Neverdie can simply create lands with new exciting mobs, ceeding the ownership of these lands to himself and charging 5% tax in the process.

what medusa's head is actually worth in THIS climate is kinda confusing.

if i bought Club Neverdie, I'd be rather upset as most people iniatially think there are now new mobs at the asteroid.

i'd like to see some statement from Mind Ark on what is actually going on. is Neverdie a planet partner, a player or a planet partner player? if he's all of the above where do i sign up for that?

There are additional issues about balance as well with item and resource availability. The issue with sweat is ofc a big one, but I still believe that is likely a bug that will be fixed very shortly... but how about other resources. I have found blood moss twice on NI. AFAIK blood moss has previously only been found in lootable pvp.. I think this has had a big effect on it being the enmatter with the highest markup. Making it available in NI will now have impact on the economy of Planet Calypso. Who polices these things? Is the MA balance manager in charge of the entire universe? What if Next Island decides to drop a loot item that is a gun better than an MM, and makes it not super rare? This would destroy tens thousands of dollars of real world investment people have. I'm not suggesting they would do this, but is anything in place to make sure they wont?

Agree with most of the above and talking of conflict of interest don't forget it's not just ND now, as, (and I have nothing against these guys as they are great ex Soc mates) Planet Arkadia is on it's way which is owned by Ozi and has Deathifier as an investor who is also a major landowner on Planet Calypso.

Centech said:

Who polices these things? Is the MA balance manager in charge of the entire universe? What if Next Island decides to drop a loot item that is a gun better than an MM, and makes it not super rare? This would destroy tens thousands of dollars of real world investment people have. I'm not suggesting they would do this, but is anything in place to make sure they wont?

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I heard that items and things are submitted to MA who have the last say on what can be added and their stats etc. so they do indeed balance everything hence item drops and bp's not been happening on RT for so long.

As I say, that's what I heard but how true it is so clarification is a must.

Skippie said:

is Neverdie a planet partner, a player or a planet partner player? if he's all of the above where do i sign up for that?

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Very good point.

To me ND seems all of those plus employee and golden child of MA!

what i see here is that Neverdie can do whatever he wants at is pleasure to exploid the comunity, all this with MA/FPC autorization. he sells CND already with the inside information that he will be able to create unique DNA and lands for is own profit! That's just so easy...

why buy Medusa for 400k dolares? just gather some intellingent universitary, make a development team and then create your own planet with your personal lands areas and unique dnas!

Since when your own club open even before the planet where he belongs?! so suspicious...

This thread has some VERY GOOD QUESTIONS

True Juan said:

This thread has some VERY GOOD QUESTIONS

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And I predict it will receive no good answers. :/

Skippie said:

well quite frankly, when I a player buy a land area from either mind ark or another player and pay out tremendous amounts of money to other players to complete a DNA sample, i become rather confused how Neverdie can simply create lands with new exciting mobs, ceeding the ownership of these lands to himself and charging 5% tax in the process.

what medusa's head is actually worth in THIS climate is kinda confusing.

if i bought Club Neverdie, I'd be rather upset as most people iniatially think there are now new mobs at the asteroid.

i'd like to see some statement from Mind Ark on what is actually going on. is Neverdie a planet partner, a player or a planet partner player? if he's all of the above where do i sign up for that?

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Obviously he is all of the above, and yes, at this point (actually long before this point) we need information from MindArk about what is allowed and what isn't, since serious questions are being raised and I suspect they are the only ones who can answer them. As players we all make the choice to login or not, to participate or not, and if we do that even with serious concerns about the financial and business ethics of the companies involved, well that is a free choice. For those who invest large amounts of money however it is logical they would want more information to base a decision on and that information should be available within reason. I assume it is available if anyone contacts them directly with legitimate questions. Has anyone done that? If so can you share the answer (or lack of answer) with us?

My take on the whole thing is that if it were not allowed under the terms of the planet partner agreement, or participant agreement, or whatever frecking agreement, then MA isn't doing it's job in monitoring their own business. If it all is allowed in their terms (this is not a public company, it is a private one and one assumes they can set whatever terms they see fit within law), then those investing in the universe do have a right to know as Skippie said, how to 'sign up' for that. It is unlikely very many of us actually would sign up and put that much money and work into it, but yeah, MA needs to make all this stuff clear on it's own website for the end users as well, within reason, as I for one don't feel they have any obligation to make the entire planet partner contract available to the gaming community.

Until we can actually read a copy of the contract ourselves however or MA answer us, we won't know, simple. At the moment all of those 'roles' appear to be allowed, as that is the current situation, and even investors in MA have personal avatars ingame if I remember correctly, and as pointed out earlier another of EU's biggest investors is set to be an investor on another new planet now, and yet has a personal avatar to play as well, so it really doesn't seem that they require people involved more directly in the business to not play for personal entertainment and possible gain in addition to any other business role.

If any of the planet partners (we have quite a few planet partners now, not just one) are free to answer from what they know directly, then let's hear from them too since MA is infamous for lack of transparency and communication.

Not holding my breath for answers from the only ones who can answer, but yes, this is not going to go away or get any better until those answers are given.

Immagine if they were monitored by some ethics commitee, things would be a lot more fair and less whining by gamers. Just a thought tho. For example, and dont get me wrong cos I am NOT sore about losing the Miss event....but for example in the real world, when 5 judges, through unforseen curcumstances, become only 2, the RL event would not go through or be posponed. And IRL, do women win the Miss. World contest twice in a row? I never heard of this happen, just my 2 pecs on that. But please this is NOT an attack on FPC or the Miss Caly Contest, I am happy for Zunami Angel for winning it twice.

Ethics rules are enforces and lived by for a reason, I think.

The best solution for all would be if we are stripped of all possesions when we travel between different planets.
Only thing we can take with us is peds and skills. Skills that are equal on both planets.

So if I will start make a living on NI then I will have to start with no items with me.

Centech said:

And I predict it will receive no good answers. :/

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sadly have to agree. do not expect a FPC (or MA ) post here

Euh Mindark ringing a bel maybe ?

MindArk owns the Platform and is monitoiring Partners ofc. Not everything Partners want get accepted by MindArk.

For more info i suggest checking http://www.entropiaplatform.com/

Centech said:

And I predict it will receive no answers. :/

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FTFY (fixed that for you)

Lee said:

Obviously he is all of the above, and yes, at this point (actually long before this point) we need information from MindArk about what is allowed and what isn't, since serious questions are being raised and I suspect they are the only ones who can answer them. As players we all make the choice to login or not, to participate or not, and if we do that even with serious concerns about the financial and business ethics of the companies involved, well that is a free choice. For those who invest large amounts of money however it is logical they would want more information to base a decision on and that information should be available within reason. I assume it is available if anyone contacts them directly with legitimate questions. Has anyone done that? If so can you share the answer (or lack of answer) with us?

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From my understanding of how the companies are setup, Mindark wants nothing to do with any player from any planet. They have no way to contact them directly. If there is any reason for you to contact Mindark directly, I've been advised to take it up in a support case.

Perhaps one can also see this from Neverdie's perspective.

He has invested in 2 new planets (Rocktropia, Next Island); then a Mindark subsidiary (FPC) suddenly add a new island group, and possibly more later. Perhaps he isn't pleased either.

chevrons said:

Perhaps one can also see this from Neverdie's perspective.

He has invested in 2 new planets (Rocktropia, Next Island); then a Mindark subsidiary (FPC) suddenly add a new island group, and possibly more later. Perhaps he isn't pleased either.

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With all due respect ... have you not followed the discussions on all of this?

I think this is really one of the most important issues they still have to adress, if they would like to be considered as a serious and respectable company.

Gamers/Investors dont have anything to worry about. Money pixel-poops on money. Same phenomenon exists IRL, Ive seen wealthy peops, who already have millions, win the lottery. Mabe because they buy a couple of K tickets, nevertheless, its because they can. VU aint that different than RL. The wealthy take care of their own, in a fraternity kinda way, and if openly no-one dares go there. And if someone does, its ignored.

the topic is rather luscious indeed...

but I am somehow confident (well, maybe without reasons, but still) that young Master ND has the same rights as any of would have while creating our worlds. I doubt the engine foresees the possibilities to favor one creator more than others. I might be wrong though, as always. on the other hand I wish ND all the best 'cause he took the risk and turned his mad (read : unbelievably insane) belief, passion and effort into gold. I can't say I did 1/1000 of the PR to the game he did =) but if there's more than conspiracy behind it... interesting at least, I'd say... reason for revolt? =)

Centech said:

And I predict it will receive no good answers. :/

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MA will ignore it until enough attention has been put on the topic but yes, I'd also be prepared for the answer as foggy as the dead marshes, at the best that is...


J.

has anybody actually thought about what sort of investment nd has put forth to buy all these privileges i saw on the financial report somebody paid 5.2 million SEK in exchange they will receive a higher future revenue share could this translate to that he has to pay for the fucking la areas he uses just like everyone else

mike jones said:

has anybody actually thought about what sort of investment nd has put forth to buy all these privileges i saw on the financial report somebody paid 5.2 million SEK in exchange they will receive a higher future revenue share could this translate to that he has to pay for the fucking la areas he uses just like everyone else

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Indeed, he would have spent a bunch of money on it. But it's worth considering two things.

It seems plausible that he would have spent this money anyway given that ND is in charge of developing Next Island, they were gonna fill that server with something. Since we don't know the exact agreement it's hard to tell, but this is plausible.

When FPC or any planet partner makes a super LA, one would expect that the money they make from it from initial purchase and player spending exceeds development costs. So the price ND "paid" for his LA is below market.

burnsey said:

...

How many land areas are they allowed to create ?

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I guess we do have this issue already. Nobody knows how many new areas Calypso will have as well.

For players this is rather indifferent, but for investors this is quite important. Estates are the most valuable assets in EU and hence every new planet partner but also existing ones will try to maximize their number. All will depend on how many new players we will have and if investors are willing to pay.

The main problem I see is that currently no one knows any limits to the planet partners, and no one has a history of their actions. With FPC/MA we can expect 1 big LA release around christmas time for Calypso. But with these other planets... we just dont know.


The danger here is that, those who invest first... risk a lot. If only 1 LA was released on RT, then itd be big business and people would want it... of course itd be valued high because itd be the only one.... as more get released then the initial person can get more screwed... depending on how frequent LAs are made/sold or other estates. But along with that, people would also learn of the risk factor, and maybe not pay for as much because of the belief of new LAs being released.



My other big concern is the friends with benefits thing. We all know ND has a lot of friends, maybe some are RL friends in-game also. He can easily design a system or relay information to these people about developments and releases... and then these people could jump on the opportunity... That would be my biggest fear.... with MA/FPC its not as big of a concern, because it seems more professional... but with ND... he started as a player in the game, and has made many friends Im sure... and now hes running a business.... but he has lots of friends in-game now.

MindStar9 said:

With all due respect ... have you not followed the discussions on all of this?

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Now I've read the earlier threads, I see your point.

The discussion so far though seems to concern conflicts of interest within one planet. I was attempting to say that there are also conflicts between planets, where shareholders or employees hold property even on another planet. The case I quoted of Medusa's Head is an example of a planet partner (FPC) acting in a way detrimental to all other planet partners and existing LA owners, including Neverdie, and the Blood Moss affair is an example of the reverse (if not a bug).

At the moment I can't see how the entire concept of planet partners doesn't present ethical dilemmas which Mindark seem not to have anticipated.

The many Releases which have led to sudden revaluations are sufficient to require that no developer or anyone with a financial interest in a planet partner should own in-game assets (on any planet). And that includes Insider Trading by friends and family.

But it goes wider than that; even if that were the case, there would still be a conflict of interest between planet owners and owners of assets on other planets. What is to stop any planet partner selling 10 Medusa's Heads every year? How are Mindark going to oversee uncontrolled asset dilution?