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FYI: Crafting exposed

53.55% item tt was what I got tracking basic Sheet metal so very much the same as others have said.

And Ill agree once cos is maxed BP do not increase return with skills.
 
Ionar said:
2. TTP = 0,6 * TTIn * RWF
3. TTR = (0.9 – 0.6 * RWF) * TTIn

TTP = TT value of crafted product
TTR = TT value of residue
Click to expand...

I had a look to your given TTP and TTR values.
I would related them to TTout and not TTin when calculating it. This leads to something about 66% (without solar 8v batteries) for TTP, hence looks quite like a 2:1 relation. If one will relate it to TTout, he can do it afterwards and multiply by .9 (TTout).

This seems to work quite well when TT of products are lower then cost of click like with sensors (.024 TT per piece, cost .16) or modulator (.02 TT, cost .18). With solar 8V this is different. TT is 0.7 and cost is .94 and TTP is only about 45%-50% and hence there is some kind of rounding involved.

Maybe loot value is drawn first and then the 2:1 split is applied. If I do assume a mean loot of 2.82 Ped (i.e. .94/.3*.9, where .3 is the success rate and .9 payout%) and apply the 2:1 split, then there are 1.86 PED available for products. In this only 2 batteries will fit, hence TTP=1.4 PED whereas the rest of 1.42 PED will be on residue which fits quite well the observed data.

As MU on residue is lower than on products, this might be a problem for some items. Not sure if this is only bad design or intentional.
 
Zorander said:
The BPs themselves will tell you your COS on them. Hover your cursor jusr below the bar graph on the info screen for a BP. Not on the bar, but just below it. It will display your COS in a % value.

I'd say max COS is probably somewhere around max on that bar =p
Click to expand...

I think this is a VERY interestning find! Those pixel bars allways where a bad way to measure COS!
 
The best way to "beat" crafting is to play around with the QTY/COND bar to figure out the way to maximize either residue returns or product returns. This is for stackable crafting ofc. If your making higher MU product, maximizing the return for product will yield the best results.

Im testing around with it atm.... since its hard to tell.

Each success will have a maximum # of product that can be given before its all residue, the idea is to have that happen as much as possible.
 
Very good read, thanks for that data.

MAs official statement again comes to my mind about decay being their source of income. If 10% of tt put in is lost in crafting (where there is no such thing as decay) where does it go to ?
 
To make it more complete it should be remembered that some L blueprints are to be considered bonus BP and their TT output is much higher than 100%
 
falkao said:
I had a look to your given TTP and TTR values.
I would related them to TTout and not TTin when calculating it. This leads to something about 66% (without solar 8v batteries) for TTP, hence looks quite like a 2:1 relation. If one will relate it to TTout, he can do it afterwards and multiply by .9 (TTout).

This seems to work quite well when TT of products are lower then cost of click like with sensors (.024 TT per piece, cost .16) or modulator (.02 TT, cost .18). With solar 8V this is different. TT is 0.7 and cost is .94 and TTP is only about 45%-50% and hence there is some kind of rounding involved.

Maybe loot value is drawn first and then the 2:1 split is applied. If I do assume a mean loot of 2.82 Ped (i.e. .94/.3*.9, where .3 is the success rate and .9 payout%) and apply the 2:1 split, then there are 1.86 PED available for products. In this only 2 batteries will fit, hence TTP=1.4 PED whereas the rest of 1.42 PED will be on residue which fits quite well the observed data.

As MU on residue is lower than on products, this might be a problem for some items. Not sure if this is only bad design or intentional.
Click to expand...
Thanks again for your input. Hopfully I'll get some time this weekend to look over your post in more detail. It's been a buisy week for me :(

Lyrisiana said:
Very good read, thanks for that data.

MAs official statement again comes to my mind about decay being their source of income. If 10% of tt put in is lost in crafting (where there is no such thing as decay) where does it go to ?
Click to expand...
It could go to hunting and/or mining loot. So if you do belive the "only takes decay" statement (and I kind of do) the loot pool can not be separate for each profession. Futher more, it becomes highly unlikley that there is a separate loot pool for each avatar as many seem to belive. If there was, any one doing only hunting or mining would get a much lower TT-return then some one that crafts a lot... I don't know, I haven't realy thought this one through... Feel free to shoot down this theory :D

-Archangel- said:
To make it more complete it should be remembered that some L blueprints are to be considered bonus BP and their TT output is much higher than 100%
Click to expand...
Yes, Limited BPs are a different breed. As I do allmost only components, I get very few limited BP-drops so I don't have any data on thouse prints yet.
 
Ionar said:
Yes, Limited BPs are a different breed. As I do allmost only components, I get very few limited BP-drops so I don't have any data on thouse prints yet.
Click to expand...

You also get now some limited BP's from components related to vehicles. :)

I can confirm the drom from a Simple I Plastic Springs in December 2010.
 
Yes, I've had a few limited vehichle BPs drop from my component crafting. But not many, and they seem to be kind of a drain on my PED card to click so I don't have much data collected from clicking limited prints.
 
Ionar said:
It could go to hunting and/or mining loot. So if you do belive the "only takes decay" statement (and I kind of do) the loot pool can not be separate for each profession. Futher more, it becomes highly unlikley that there is a separate loot pool for each avatar as many seem to belive. If there was, any one doing only hunting or mining would get a much lower TT-return then some one that crafts a lot... I don't know, I haven't realy thought this one through... Feel free to shoot down this theory :D
Click to expand...

when collecting data (and tbh i have not done this myself so far for my own crafting) one could try a more careful selection of the point in time when to sum up tt returns if the system allows us to be picky. Think of the question when you should leave the game or profession (in respect of tt returns) if you had to at some point but had plenty of time for that decision.
i guess we can agree on that the loot system is not random in a naive way and then it could be useful calculating total ttout/ttin after every run and look for some kind of pattern, an upper value that returns over and over again even if total ttout/ttin is 90% or lower most of the time. one should not be able to find such a pattern or value significantly higher than 90% if that tt value is truly lost in some way instead of temporarily 'locked in' by the system until returned. admitted it could take a very long time to find this.
 
i have watched this thread closely and can only give you what i have done..
All standard bp's lets say book I and II of Basic nuts screws etc...
I started with the first one and skilled it to 20.0 then moved onto the next in line and so on and so on.
During the year of doing it i managed to gain Blue comprehension and other higher skills that opened my ability to craft better and with more product..both books have now got 50.0 on each and i find that as i need items to craft weapons..warps..armor etc...i am getting a better return on product mass for the crafting i do.
At no stage have i moved the slider to quality over quantity...not even whilst crafting L weapons bp's or vehicle bp's....or armor bp's L...and i do alot of crafting....just a little imput but one very good rule for all up and coming crafters...
:wise: Never use residue on non L bp's...ever ever..ok..because theyre tt repairable to what desired strength u want....seen to many buy residue and waste it doin ordinary bp's..:D
 
Not true!

:yup:
Cuga said:
Only way to make money in crafting is to... well... there is no way to make money crafting I'm afraid.:)

Thanks for the interessting read.
Click to expand...


Common misconception...on a 1000 click or more run tho there is 95% CI that u will lose...there is a way to profit over long term!

Brick
 
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Thanks! I did not know about the 60% item returns (thought it was 45-47.5% chance of success and didn't know about the TT-value nor the rounding waste factor). :)
 
I'm curious about this kind of thing, would it hold that limited / unlimited items with a higher tt value than the materials used to make them would skew so that failures would accomodate the times it fills the tt of the item?

Like crafting Simple 1 Plastic Springs sometimes you get 2 or 3 instead of 1 and some res, would it be that a 120 max tt clothing item would have more failures if it spontaneously applied the full tt to the item? (quantity upswing/spike)
 
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