Question: NEVERDIE and his influence in people trust and game

--mod hat off--

:scratch2:
Either he's flubbed that vital part of the economy himself,

Either way, your analysis is flawed.

ND's life is a consistent flub...:laugh:


The term "analysis" is incorrect for my reply..

My opinion is certainly biased but...
Island Girl is STILL an active avatar and was seen recently on RT... I believe it was proved CND was a single deed then split up AFTER it didn't sell as a whole
It was stated that ND new ahead of time about the scanner drops..and more.

You can argue over any of these issues, but there is plenty of incrimination evidence for my particular opinion. :tiphat:
 
Before folks misunderstand, I do want the true Planet Partners and their employees to follow the proper agreement, which does not allow them to have loot-gathering avatars, except under certain conditions, the biggest being the inability to withdraw. (As I understand it.)
What Proper Agreement? MA has said absolutely nothing to the community about any agremeent as far as I know. The ONLY individual that mentioned the planet partners cannot participate clause in any contract so far has been ND on his own forum. As far as any of us know, that could possibly be a part of the back story that NDS had planned along, right along with Force being Force in the forums and the whole prison fiasco -- all a staged play created by an actor/director that is directing us to act in certain ways?!?.... Do I really think that is true - maybe, but probably not, lol.

I'm not sure if I have a 'hard line' on any of it. I'm just trying to connect the dots and figure out what actually is going on asking that there be a fair and equal chance for all. It seems there is a lot of balancing the balancing manager needs to do to bring things back in to the harmony they need to be for the rce to be 'stable', (if it ever really was stable?)

If MA could be a heck of a lot more transparent about all of it, and possibly put the actual planet partner contract out in the public, or at least answer some of the questions that are out there hovering around, I think it'd make the whole virtual universe a little better.

Honestly, for me personally, I'd like see Neverdie, Deathifier, and any other owners or employees of planets and MA itself spending tons more time developing story and events instead of worrying about whatever little bit of virtual assets they still have left in their personal avatar's storage. We all know how long it takes to do things in game. Imagine if all the hours they were blowing in game was not blown in game but spent in coding and writing storylines how much futher RT, and NI would be by now?... Imagine if all the posts in these forums about conspiracies the last few months was spent on actually talking about how to solve events in game that exited that currently do not exist... The actual CONTENT of the game could be massively better then it is right now. What are the planet partners and MA going to do that? I'd rather see ND sitting in the studio working on the next 3d model of the up and coming mob or even creating a new song to put on jukeboxes in game then see him running around devaluing other folk's scanner prices, looting stuff when he's not suppossed to be hunting or mining, etc.
 
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Im neither NEVERDIE's friend nor his supporter. I have never met Deathifier ingame. I have no idea who the guy that runs Arkadia is/was.

  • What I do see though is a relentless pursuit of individuals who are high profile.
  • What I also see is that MindArks public policy here is being used against them.
  • What I fail to see is the actual signed Planet Partner agreements with their terms clearly laid out for people to look at and analyze objectivly.

So in essence a bunch of people who dont know what they're talking about are angry at something. :dunce:

Great. What else is new in the world? Bob, can we get the weather please? :ahh:
 
You can argue over any of these issues, but there is plenty of incrimination evidence for my particular opinion. :tiphat:

Oh I completely agree there's some shady issues concerning ND. I by no means think he's a saint.

However, I also have plenty of stories saying he's just as often left in the dark. (The mob change during Mayhem a few years back removing one of his dome mobs and seriously affecting potential monetary gain for him. This happened right after he spent money altering dome settings based on the previous mob list.)

Honestly, for me personally, I'd like see Neverdie, Deathifier, and any other owners or employees of planets and MA itself spending tons more time developing story...

And there's my point. ND, sure. He's the CEO of a planet partner. Of course he needs to been tied to the "no withdraw" issue.

But my understanding of Deathifier is simply he invested his personal money in a business deal involving folks he trusted to do a good job on making a planet. Part of that deal was a land area that he could just have easily bought after the world went live. (Again, did you contact ARK and try to pre-buy land?) They are two separate cases in my eyes, but you combine them as if Deathifier has direct control over content, or that it's part of some salaried job of his.

Now, is he in the same position as DAmanger? We'll see. If some future VU finds Deathifier camping his LA and some "financially comfortable" item drops a lot and he fails to inform the public, and all public info points to prior knowledge, then yeah, we'll have to reassess. However, I find that scenario unlikely. (Feel free to use this post to prove me wrong if I am in the future.)


And Magyar, a lot of what we understand about this "planet partner" agreement comes from conjecture coming from how MA long-term rules about their employees (I.E. no withdrawing avatars, though official & "secret" avas are allowed.) as well as other players seeing the contract (after signing NDAs) when they initially inquired about making their own planets when the concept 1st became available.
 
And Magyar, a lot of what we understand about this "planet partner" agreement comes from conjecture coming from how MA long-term rules about their employees (I.E. no withdrawing avatars, though official & "secret" avas are allowed.) as well as other players seeing the contract (after signing NDAs) when they initially inquired about making their own planets when the concept 1st became available.

Yeah I know. Its the conjecture I have a problem with.

Folks are making alot of noise, but its about about everything. Alarms are going off everywhere, for no other purpose it seems than to blow the whistle.

People need to chill out, and be quiet for a few moments. Completely. All their noise is drowning out the problem!!!!
 
Perhaps there is no problem, perhaps your all over analizing it. Perhaps this is one big witch hunt that everyones been sucked into without realising, ringlead by some people with a personal vendetta for him for a undisclosed reason.

After all none of you know exactly whats in the planet partner agreement, nor know what theyve done, for all we know, ND and others like him simpilly have no access to their loot.

None of this is doing any good for eu, its just ripping the community apart, and deterring new players.

I think this forum is partly to blame for letting all these copy cat threads continue for so long, i mean how many months has it been now, and your all still regurgitating the same converstation over and over.

Surely theres a point whare everything that needs to be said has been said whare things need to move on.

Your never going to have all the facts, so none of you can really build up a propper oppinion of it. Maybe your right, maybe your wrong, but continuing like this will just do harm to entropia as a whole.

Or perhaps im just a rambling idiot who has no idea what hes talking about.
 
It would be the first time that we've made 2+2 = 9

During past ingame events we've had item drops and suddenly everyone thinks it's rl items, prices sky rocket :rolleyes: only for them to fall even faster when an official statement is made.

And I do get what your saying, if EU gets to the stage where we're analyzing everything a PP or MA does in and out of game to infinitesimal levels then we've lost the very thing we came to EU for in the first place.
 
However, I also have plenty of stories saying he's just as often left in the dark.

I haven't heard any of those, but I wouldn't doubt it at all.
MA has proven they don't give a second thought who they shyt on.
 
After all none of you know exactly whats in the planet partner agreement, nor know what theyve done, for all we know, ND and others like him simpilly have no access to their loot.

But that is the problem, ND seems to be breaking the PP agreement as he defined it, but there is no more info on this... if info on this was given, there would not be such a problem about it. There would be no real base for rumors of insider info being used, and the trust we as a community has to place in MA and NDS would not be as damaged as it has been now.

No, I am not saying that because I dislike ND or RT, I actually enjoyed the planet when I was there. I am saying this because it is a fact. There has been some things hinting to insider info being misused and this could probably had been avoided by releasing more info.

The only information we have about the PP agreement is, as said, what ND has released about it. He is, or has been, in breach of that. If there has been a change, the community deserves to be told. If it is all just a made up story to get publicity, as Mastermesh suggested, it will only hurt the trust further.



The problem here is not that people dislike Neverdie. The problem is that either:
1) ND is breaking the agreement.
2) ND is lying about what the agreement is, but is not breaking it.
3) ND is lying about the agreement AND breaking it
or
4) The agreement or something else has been changed, meaning he is no longer in breach of the agreement. If this option is the truth, the community should had been told or several people will assume that one of the three first options is the truth.
 
Perhaps there is no problem, perhaps your all over analizing it. Perhaps this is one big witch hunt that everyones been sucked into without realising, ringlead by some people with a personal vendetta for him for a undisclosed reason.

After all none of you know exactly whats in the planet partner agreement, nor know what theyve done, for all we know, ND and others like him simpilly have no access to their loot.

None of this is doing any good for eu, its just ripping the community apart, and deterring new players.

I think this forum is partly to blame for letting all these copy cat threads continue for so long, i mean how many months has it been now, and your all still regurgitating the same converstation over and over.

Surely theres a point whare everything that needs to be said has been said whare things need to move on.

Your never going to have all the facts, so none of you can really build up a propper oppinion of it. Maybe your right, maybe your wrong, but continuing like this will just do harm to entropia as a whole.

Or perhaps im just a rambling idiot who has no idea what hes talking about.

First, I can't even believe that you think there (perhaps) is no problem ... that's a head shaker.

Historically, anyone becoming an employee of MA, and now a planet developer, has had to retire their regular EU avatar and take on an official one. Many have done it already, and it's the protocol that has been followed for years. You have been around long enough to know this. Whether they play secret avatars or not isn't the issue, because MA, nor anyone involved with Calypso development created a big stir about playing their regular avatars, or blatantly and openly violated the PP agreement.

I don't want to hear that we haven't seen the PP agreement (yet again), and I feel that some of you are really using that as a technical defense and completely ignoring the fact that ND himself made it clear in his thread at the RT forum that it came to his attention that he and his staff are not allowed to play their regular EU avatars. I don't get why people continue to dismiss that like it's nothing, or that it has no value ... it doesn't make sense to me.

After ND became a PP, he deliberately ignored the agreement, and I say deliberately, because he's been in this universe long enough (from the beginning) to know how things operate from a developer perspective, and every excuse in the book can be used, but many in this community just aren't buying that ND was clueless. ND became a PP and right out the gate he paid no mind to what has been accepted as general business protocol, and has gotten away with it for a long time, which absolutely gives this community a valid reason to raise questions. What we don't know is why MA has allowed it to go on for so long.

The issue of him being a developer and playing his regular avatar came up last year, and there were threads about it at this forum then, but ... just like always, I'm sure it was hoped that the community would just quiet down and the problem would go away. I guess for the most part it sort of did, until December 2010 when Next Island went live with the ND island. Once again, a developer was involved with personal, revenue-generating real estate that immediately caught the community's attention. There has now been plenty of activity on ND's part to add fuel to the fire, and I don't need to rehash it again, it's all been said, but ...

Despite it all being said ... the reason the community keeps revisiting it is because there seems to be a series of activities that keeps ND in the spotlight, and for the most part, he's the catalyst that keeps the tongues wagging. You can use any technical play on anything you want to justify the "over analyzing" of the community as you call it, but the noise won't stop, and rightfully so.

Also, it's not just a few people who are addressing this situation either based on many threads that have popped up at this forum. I've been targeted in the past as a result of my opinions, but they are a result of reviewing documentation, personal observation, evidence and facts ... some of which I have presented myself, and ... contrary to what you or anyone else think, I do not have a vendetta against Neverdie, not even close (which was also mentioned in the past).

My concern is for this community (as it is for many) and that it gets treated fairly. It wouldn't matter if it was ND or someone else, the bottom line is still the same, it just so happens that it's ND and his actions that have put him in the spotlight, not something someone arbitrarily did one day just for the hell of it.

We all know it started when he created himself a large parcel of land now known as CND-2 on Next Island where he also charges taxes. As a developer of the planet, he had inside information, and this is where the whole issue of conflict of interest started a second time around, and why the community became so vocal about it.

Now that ND is no longer the developer of Next Island, and Harold Sipe is in place to produce/manage and get involved with the development of the planet according to David Post, I have no issue with ND having his parcel of land. You can learn more about Harold here (link originally posted by SoftHart at the NI forum). Softy also posted the latest comment from David Post from his FB account at the EP forum as follows:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Softhart
David's Post on FB:

David Post At this moment I want to say less not more. There is still a relationship but we are now running our development ourselves. When I can say more I will. NDS has its Neverdie Island on Next Island. We have had plans to do certain things and now we are doing them.

This community is intelligent enough to assess situations like this, and it's really an insult to tell them that perhaps there isn't a problem when in fact it's very clear that there really is. :wise:
 
Who hasn't posted in this thread?
 
Mr. Jacobs just recently said himself that he knew about the rule but ignored it "because Neverdie was in from the beginning". So i don't understand why there is still an disbute about what he knew or whats in the agreement.

http://www.plutopianews.com/2011/04/24/neverdie-he-is-his-avatar/ @13:36

How he extented this logic to his employees i don't know. How it comes that a leading employe of him still posts on this very forum that he will not obey to this simple and reasonable rule i also don't know.
 
Mr. Jacobs just recently said himself that he knew about the rule but ignored it "because Neverdie was in from the beginning". So i don't understand why there is still an disbute about what he knew or whats in the agreement.

http://www.plutopianews.com/2011/04/24/neverdie-he-is-his-avatar/ @13:36

How he extented this logic to his employees i don't know. How it comes that a leading employe of him still posts on this very forum that he will not obey to this simple and reasonable rule i also don't know.


One thing is for sure. I feel that this behavior generates not only bad PR. But some customer rights problems that I do not know at this point. I am not an expert in law. But I plan to be informed more on this aspect. I started to search on google about customer rights in Europe and I feel I am on to something. I will post more info when I finish my research.
 
Who hasn't posted in this thread?

me!

well, maybe I did. I don't remember. however, in the end, it's all the same to me. planet partners shouldn't be able to exploit insider knowledge that they have. people who invest or pre-buy through a partner are usually at arms-lenght and said restriction doesn't apply.

I do actually believe that all the twisted fallout about missions, loot drops, etc. are nothing more than poor quality control and release management on the part of NDS (MA has some responsibility in this as well). I don't believe it was a conspiracy.

in the end, NDS will have to survive on its own with rocktropia (since their relationship with next island is waning). time will tell, as new planets come online and next island re-tools. we'll see what other designers put forward and from that, in hindsight, we'll be able to better assess what occured.

the chance of MA or SEE coming forward and saying anything more than some vague statement is next to zero. they are all part of the same universe and their in-fighting cannot be made public. they must show solidarity to promode confidence in the platform.

all of this is just my opinion - the rather fevered opinion of some deluded girl. of course, I could consider packing up all my silver and shipping it off to any planet partner who'll give me a nice landarea and see if that makes any difference to how I feel.
 
Thank you very much for this link. It's a very enjoyable and informative interview...

Informative for sure, i wasn't exactly enjoying everything of it tho. :laugh:

Despite the fact the interviewer sounds like he's in a fish tank. :scratch2:

Yes, it would sound like that if the recording was on ND's side (and using VOIP). But that wouldn't make much sense in this case, or would it? ;)

I found the interviewer was pretty good though.
 
Actually listened to the whole interview, you know, right, and cannot for the life of me, you know, figure out why, you know, MA actually thought , you know, that he should give up his playing avatar, you know. I mean, he been here from the beginning, you know, why would rules apply to him, you know.

Is there anything this man cannot do?

Writer, Actor, Director, editor, Producer, music writer, song writer, blah, blah, blah, you know.


OH WAIT..... he cant follow rules, cos hes far to important for that. Hmmmm.

Just goes to prove my earlier point that this man cannot be trusted, and will do what ever he feels like doing to massage his ego.
Iknow, you know, he doesnt have an enormous ego. You know , that just how the "lesser" people see him you know.
 
Well, it is simple for me, while pp's own avatars that own ingame assets i will NOT be visiting their planet

ND has land areas, and puts taxes on them. These are ingame assets and thus i will no longer visit.

Its simply a case of trust.....how anyone can trust a pp that already takes 50% of all decay. Creates his own LA's that he then puts an extra tax on, how you can trust that is beyond me. (positing of LA? what's in it? There is a VERY good reason why MA/SDS are not allowed personally avatars that own assets ingame, and yes this includes LA's, an obvious conflict of interest, and if people are still trying to argue against this, please carry on, if you don't get it now you never will)

Rgds

Ace

PS, Deathifier is an investor, and i have no issues with him owning a LA on Arkadia. I can imagine how the conversation went
Deathifier: "hey arkadia team, i believe in your planet and willing to invest a shit load of money in it, i just want a LA?"
Arkadia: "hell yeah! (thank god we now have the cash to develope the damn thing)"

If deathifier had done the same to ND i would have no problems either
 
....how anyone can trust a pp that already takes 50% of all decay. Creates his own LA's that he then puts an extra tax on, how you can trust that is beyond me.

feel free to correct me, if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe the ND avatar personally owns any taxed land on rocktropia. I know he does on next island, but NDS doesn't own next island and the land area was partial payment for services provided. so, I don't see a problem there.

the taxed land on rocktropia, it appears, is not sold to the general population but is part of outside deals. NDS traded lemmy and motorhead land areas for use of their trademarks, recordings, voice advertising, and marketing materials. even for input on the area's initial design and population. a similar deal, apparently, was struck with kevin rudolf.

I have no problem with that either.

I know there was considerable outrage at how, on next island, it was only the CND play-land that NDS bothered to go and serious work upon outside of basic geography. and, there have been comments and complaints about shaky NDS release and questions over content that was in them but then quickly removed. it's really these latter things that make me feel uneasy. trust is an important concept in any relationship. it can be easily lost, and when that happens, it's very difficult to restore.


the other area, I know of, was granted to digital abduction for promotion services that are a little unclear. it makes me a little uneasy when I ask them what service they're providing through the outpost and receive a no-information platitude. however, time will tell.
 
Actually listened to the whole interview, you know, right, and cannot for the life of me, you know, figure out why, you know, MA actually thought , you know, that he should give up his playing avatar, you know. I mean, he been here from the beginning, you know, why would rules apply to him, you know.

Is there anything this man cannot do?

Writer, Actor, Director, editor, Producer, music writer, song writer, blah, blah, blah, you know.


OH WAIT..... he cant follow rules, cos hes far to important for that. Hmmmm.

Just goes to prove my earlier point that this man cannot be trusted, and will do what ever he feels like doing to massage his ego.
Iknow, you know, he doesnt have an enormous ego. You know , that just how the "lesser" people see him you know.

I endorse this assertion :cool:
 
The way I see it... the game has been in beta all along... Rocktropia, that Island thingy and Planet Arkadia are the first unique planets to come out. Calypso it seems was just a sandbox to get investors interested and allow it to take off.

The down side... anyone that invested in Calypso is probably screwed.

The up side - Calypso will probably get a full makeover with new weapons, mobs and items? or just disappear as the new planets rise and bloom out.

I could totally be wrong but that is just kind of what I see happening.
 
The up side - Calypso will probably get a full makeover with new weapons, mobs and items? or just disappear as the new planets rise and bloom out.


I see, so Calypso is planet MJ...
 
The way I see it... the game has been in beta all along... Rocktropia, that Island thingy and Planet Arkadia are the first unique planets to come out. Calypso it seems was just a sandbox to get investors interested and allow it to take off.

The down side... anyone that invested in Calypso is probably screwed.

The up side - Calypso will probably get a full makeover with new weapons, mobs and items? or just disappear as the new planets rise and bloom out.

I could totally be wrong but that is just kind of what I see happening.

.......:popcorn:.......
 
feel free to correct me, if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe the ND avatar personally owns any taxed land on rocktropia. I know he does on next island, but NDS doesn't own next island and the land area was partial payment for services provided. so, I don't see a problem there.

the taxed land on rocktropia, it appears, is not sold to the general population but is part of outside deals. NDS traded lemmy and motorhead land areas for use of their trademarks, recordings, voice advertising, and marketing materials. even for input on the area's initial design and population. a similar deal, apparently, was struck with kevin rudolf.

I have no problem with that either.

I know there was considerable outrage at how, on next island, it was only the CND play-land that NDS bothered to go and serious work upon outside of basic geography. and, there have been comments and complaints about shaky NDS release and questions over content that was in them but then quickly removed. it's really these latter things that make me feel uneasy. trust is an important concept in any relationship. it can be easily lost, and when that happens, it's very difficult to restore.


the other area, I know of, was granted to digital abduction for promotion services that are a little unclear. it makes me a little uneasy when I ask them what service they're providing through the outpost and receive a no-information platitude. however, time will tell.

Ahh seems i was mistaken, no worries about visitng then. Wasnt ND a developer for NI though? If he was just an investor with no input then him having LA's is no issue. But htat was not the case? So having a LA on a planet he helped to develop is still wrong. Please correct if wrong

Secondly who owns Hell?

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: it is so DAMN confusing what ND does and for whom and what involvement he has
 
I think a nice big news about all those bullshit all over the web will look nice at how far can a thief go on backed up by Mindark, that be domes, uniqueness of cnd supposed, digital abduction and much more.
The neverdies successfull stories that is.
It cant stay this way.
 
Wasnt ND a developer for NI though?

yes, NDS did the initial development for next island. there was some speculation that they could have put "all the good stuff" on the CND taxed land. while that is possible (and unethical), what was true was that the CND area had the vast majority creatures as most of the main island was unpopulated.

one would assume that if next island's management doesn't like how the geographical and type distribution of spawns is currently they will change it as they now have their own development group.

Secondly who owns Hell?

as far as I can tell, NDS. although, they could sell the "caves" on auction, if they so wish. now, if they apply a tax before selling them off or giving them away or whatever happens, your fear of double dipping (decay + tax) will certainly be true.
 
yes, NDS did the initial development for next island. there was some speculation that they could have put "all the good stuff" on the CND taxed land. while that is possible (and unethical), what was true was that the CND area had the vast majority creatures as most of the main island was unpopulated.

one would assume that if next island's management doesn't like how the geographical and type distribution of spawns is currently they will change it as they now have their own development group.



as far as I can tell, NDS. although, they could sell the "caves" on auction, if they so wish. now, if they apply a tax before selling them off or giving them away or whatever happens, your fear of double dipping (decay + tax) will certainly be true.

To be honest i couldnt care less about double dipping, it is owning assets ingame. Which NDS the pp obviously does on RT, ie Hell and Caves, so therefore i will stick by my original comment. I will not go somewhere where a PP owns assets ingame.

It would be exactly the same as Marco taxing unclaimed LA's on Amethera/Calypso, and of course there would be an outcry if they did. SDS do not own any assets ingame, same should be true for all PP's

Rgds

Ace
 
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