Question: UL vs L weapons, skills and attachment questions!?

I am sure this has been discussed over and over again, but since I am a newbie I thought I'd bring it up again, might be some fresh info that has changed over the VU updates.

My question is this, if you are trying to hunt eco (to a certain extent), in other words, your goal is to brake even, or as close to it as possible, when is it justifiable to use UL weapons?

I would like to use a weapon that is for newbie mobs: Argo/Drones/Feff/Molisk/etc. and the two I looked at was Imp-EP-21 and Adj Hero, which both seem to be very economical and about the right dps.

Atm I use a p4a L with a104 amp, but the MU on it is 110% and sometimes auc dun have any.

I did some tests with the weapon compare tool on entropedia, and most UL weapons start to be equal in dmg/pec when hit/dmg is 80ish (IMK.II at roughly 70ish).

Results:

I used 40 in hit and dmg profession as an indication (since I am close to that)

Imp-EP-21: 2.508 dmg/pec, dps: 20.42 (no amp)
Adj Hero: 2.497 dmg/pec, dps: 19,68 (no amp)
P4a (L): 2,844 dmg/pec, dps 15.57 (no amp, MU 110% since that is current price on auc)

Imp-EP-21 (with 84 hit and 83 dmg): 2,844 dmg/pec, 23,15 dps
Adj hero (with 84 in hit/dmg): 2,844 dmg/pec, 22,42 dps

So does these results mean that one should avoid UL weapons until one has 80+ in hit and dmg profession?

Anyone know anything about sights and scopes? Some believe that they improve your chance to hit, but the Hit: x/10 and Crit hit x/10 do not change, the scope description however mentions that the scope adds hitchance when mobs are not at melee range (but there is no visible indication of this). So is it stupid to use scopes and sights when one does not know how much it improves chance to hit? (I know they add x skill modifier, but this is irrelevant, since I am in no rush with the skills, just want to know what weapon choices I have).

And one final thought, a lot of people believe that hunting somewhat uneco is ok, since the more expenses you have the bigger return you get, I am not sure I believe this, but I do get "pitty" globals and hofs from MA when I have had a very bad period (bad period = an average return of 50-70% on roughly 5-6 hunts in a row)

Well I welcome all thoughts and answers.

you can break even with UL old school gear. But then you hunt smart. You know what, when and where you hunt.
the problem with ul old school gear without having the skills for it, is that when the bad period comes.. it's a lot worse than when you are shooting an eco p4a/a104. When the good period comes though, hunting with the ul old school gear generates bigger globals. You need to feel if the water is the right temperature to hunt. You do so by looking at the loot patterns. You will know it when the water is right. If you do not feel it or know it, then listen to reason and use the L way.






disclaimer
the above is my personal opinion based on years of hunting. It is no more than that.

Spawn said:

you can break even with UL old school gear. But then you hunt smart. You know what, when and where you hunt.
the problem with ul old school gear without having the skills for it, is that when the bad period comes.. it's a lot worse than when you are shooting an eco p4a/a104. When the good period comes though, hunting with the ul old school gear generates bigger globals. You need to feel if the water is the right temperature to hunt. You do so by looking at the loot patterns. You will know it when the water is right. If you do not feel it or know it, then listen to reason and use the L way.

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Your case sounds like an example of someone I know that you're talking about.
But by what i seen and stated.
with old school unl gear, your loot tend actually to be more stable, you need less huge hofs than what you'd need with (L)
But again, not any player is the same.
Sucky part for the topic, you need always the (L) to have decent eco for small crap

I agree with what spawn said. (ive had more than my fair share of ul hunting without proper skills too) .

Thesedays there is little reason not to use L if it is avalable , the mu on L rifels and pistols has fallen to acceptable levels (ie they are now becoming eco like they were meant to be )

Before prices were 130% and up on most L carbines which made ul weapon with little skills the same or better return despite the misses and weak hits.

so my advice , take advantage of low L prices while it lasts , by all means get those ul weapons if you can afford them they will come in as backup if your mainL breaks or for a day when there is no supply of L .

Thanks for all responses, I am sticking with the (L) p4a/a104 combo atm, I'll try to get my hands on a ul ul3 instead and use that for the mobs I mentioned, just need to find a seller that has a resonable price for it.

Once again thanks for your replies!

There's an interesting study going on right now in the Weapons subforum about UL with scopes/sights. What we used to know about UL might be changing.

Magix said:

There's an interesting study going on right now in the Weapons subforum about UL with scopes/sights. What we used to know about UL might be changing.

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Thank you for the tip, I'll check it out!

Fat Fock Adam said:

My question is this, if you are trying to hunt eco (to a certain extent), in other words, your goal is to brake even, or as close to it as possible, when is it justifiable to use UL weapons?

I would like to use a weapon that is for newbie mobs: Argo/Drones/Feff/Molisk/etc. and the two I looked at was Imp-EP-21 and Adj Hero, which both seem to be very economical and about the right dps.

Click to expand...

I would probably stick with L P4a for young argos, but it's pretty equal on those mobs. Check this list, sort by cost and ignore the grey lines (they have unknown skill requirements). Limited P4a tops that list, even with 110% markup.

Fat Fock Adam said:

I used 40 in hit and dmg profession as an indication (since I am close to that)

Imp-EP-21: 2.508 dmg/pec, dps: 20.42 (no amp)
Adj Hero: 2.497 dmg/pec, dps: 19,68 (no amp)
P4a (L): 2,844 dmg/pec, dps 15.57 (no amp, MU 110% since that is current price on auc)

Imp-EP-21 (with 84 hit and 83 dmg): 2,844 dmg/pec, 23,15 dps
Adj hero (with 84 in hit/dmg): 2,844 dmg/pec, 22,42 dps

Click to expand...

For young argos it's about the same with 40/40 for those weapons. After 1000 kills though you should theoretically have lost about 163 peds (if you use the imp EP-21 instead of the L P4a, and if we assume equal return), so 1630 peds lost after you've completed the iron challenge.

Fat Fock Adam said:

So does these results mean that one should avoid UL weapons until one has 80+ in hit and dmg profession?

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Do you mean avoid old school UL? Otherwise there are a lot of UL weapons that you max at low levels that you can use for argos etc.

Even though the imp EP-21 has a pretty good dmg/pec I wouldn't use it for larger mobs until I had 70 or 80 (though as you can see, for smaller ones like argos it's not that much of a difference).

Look here, 1.24 PED with the imp EP-21, compared to 1.07 PED with the P4a.

Back in the day when I was hunting, I had an Adjusted Hero. Apart from being a peashooter, usable against a limited range of mobs, it was super economical, I got the best results with it unamped btw! Loot was very stable, unless I tried to do some mobs for which that gun just didn't have enough dps.

Once your "laser dmg" gets over 5.0 the difference between using a limited sib gun and adj hero gets less and less, because that weapon has such a low damage interval.

For the mobs you listed (except feffs, too much regen) Adjhero or Imp21 are THE weapons

From my own experimentation, I wouldn't use any weapon that isn't maxed. That means 10/10. Even an imk2.

Fat Fock Adam said:

So does these results mean that one should avoid UL weapons until one has 80+ in hit and dmg profession?

Click to expand...

Yes. Although I wouldn't recommend to use any weapon/tool/anything that you haven't already maxed.

Thank you for all the feedback!