Why is it a bad thing ores wre ( almost ) taken away from certain mobs ?

das said:

Should'nt ul amps be made by crafters?
Not even gonna start about beacon finds..

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to das again.

billairboy said:

Mining will probably always have a better average markup compared to hunting. Why? Because of the "boring factor". Most people think it more fun to shoot and kill mobs than drop probes, so they are prepare to accept lower markups and loose more money to hunt compared to mining.

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I'd choose mining over hunting any day for excitement.

took a few days to get a hof mining....took me 5 years to get one hunting....

billairboy said:

Well, i have always thought it was a bit strange to find large amount of ores on mobs, should not ores be found by miners and not by hunters? As always some players like it, some don't like it. In this case hunters don't like the change, miners like it.

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Argo's used to be miners or some such thing, so went the storyline back in the day.
"Miner" bots mine and some drones carry them as a result of the inner workings of the drone community, so went the storyline back in the day.
Maybe the storyline is changing?
Regardless, no stones in argo and drones = no more hunting those mobs...

Well, I have always thought it was a bit strange to find large amount of ores on mobs.

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For some mobs like Argo, Drone, Miner Bots there is actually a back story as to why they have that in their loot. A part of history even KIM seemed to not of remembered... I find it strange people call themselves calypsians yet you don't or have any idea about it. Argonauts dig up Iron because that is their food source. Drone have gazz in them because it is used in their design plan (circuitry) for maintainance so they dig it up to survive, same could be said for the other bots who don't have a backstory. Miner Bots dig up ores anyway thats why they drop several ore stones & these mobs feed the rest of the Bot populass. Another reason why they are guarded by high level drones which they are.

M Rufen Power said:

For some mobs like Argo, Drone, Miner Bots there is actually a back story as to why they have that in their loot. A part of history even KIM seemed to not of remembered... I find it strange people call themselves calypsians yet you don't or have any idea about it. Argonauts dig up Iron because that is their food source. Drone have gazz in them because it is used in their design plan (circuitry) for maintainance so they dig it up to survive, same could be said for the other bots who don't have a backstory. Miner Bots dig up ores anyway thats why they drop several ore stones & these mobs feed the rest of the Bot populass. Another reason why they are guarded by high level drones which they are.

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Heh, the "story" went missing along time ago.

Why bitch? just get an orefinder and go mine the shit while mu is high, then back to mobs when they start dropping mu stuff again.

Steve_saber said:

Heh, the "story" went missing along time ago.

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Pff it's no wonder .

I bought only 2 CLD....was planning to buy more....but abandoned that idea some time ago...
Why? .........................go figure!

Dinivan said:

Why bitch? just get an orefinder and go mine the shit while mu is high, then back to mobs when they start dropping mu stuff again.

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As i wrote in my opening post i did that 2010 and 2011 for a good while. I did fairly well doing it. BUT for me hunting is more fun. As this is a game for me i want to do the things that are fun. Despite my small profits i deposit an average 40EUR per month to do stuff which is fun AND to progress doing so ( skill and gearwise ). I know it is a fraction of what others are depositing, but it is still more expensive than the average subscription based MMO. I was happy with that in the past, as i could progress AND have fun.
But in order to save up for purchases i had to come off ahead with my ped card in the end of the month.

So for the low depositor in order to progress either profit is neccessary since there is no big wallet ( in terms of depos at least hence low depositor ) . Although EU is fun for me i decided after 3 months of playing that EU in 2009 that this game is not worth almost 2k USD in 3 months and changed my gamestyle, found a good mentor and managed to meet my expectations and targets i was aiming for.

As things changed now i need to invest a lot of time to adapt changes to be back on track regarding those targets. But as i am working and commuting over 12h daily, studiying part-time AND have a family to take care of - i am not willing to put more time into EU. And as i made this decision long time ago not willing to put more money into EU to reach the same targets as it was possible for me some days ago.

So i have to decide if EU is still worth for me to play without meeting my expectations. I haven't made up my mind yet about it, but although i had some time the last days, i decided rather to play something else and did not log in. I also know there are several people who feel the same though here i can only speak for myself.

Time will tell, for now and the forseeable time i will remain in an idle state and see how things progress as it is a bad time to sell any stuff anyway. It might be it even gets worse with my item values and i will lose more, but i still give not up the hope things will change for the better, but my confidence in MAs capabilities to change things has been shaken and i am dissatisfied more about HOW the change happened than the fact things actually ARE rebalanced, as i sketched a way in my OP how rebalancing could have been handeled for the benefit of the community by creating opportunities instead of destroying existing ones.

The latter one ofc needs way less effort as it is easy to change the loot-tables of certain mobs instead of creating purposes for existing materials. And i am more disappointed that going the easy route at the expense of the playerbase is still the way to go for MA after all these years. So many people keep asking why the playerbase does not increase significantly after all these years. How a company treats their customers plays a big role in that.

Beside that MA must not forget that the loot system is what keeps people playing. The loot system is the core of EU. It is nice to have some eyecandy as it creates a 'wow-and-aww-effect ', but after a while of playing this is not what motivates people to stay ingame for half a generation. Though people like Kim propably hate to hear it - all the work of the artists play a minor role in EU. That being said it is my personal belief that when those costs are saved, from the saved cost loot returns improved people would actuallay hunt red squares and green triangles instead of fancy designed and nicely textured 3-d models.

So MA should imho concentrate on the strength of EU for a while and improve this BEFORE they take care of the peripherals - WITHOUT pissing off the people paying their bills - so to say without taking the easy route but valuing their customers not only in their words and mails but especially in how they act in doing their daily business.

So long

I was trying to stay away from expressing my opinion on MU but I'll stick my head out and see what happens


Markup is decided not by MA, not directly anyway, but by the players. It is up to ourselves to decide what the markup is. Sadly, undercutting to sell something is a very common behaviour among hunters, leading to lower markups.
Making certain drops more rare makes the markup to naturally increase.
There is a feedback mechanism in all of this. You get loot from mobs and minerals from mining, you decide how much markup should go with it, but then it is reflected in the gear that crafters create and sell back to hunters and miners. Thus higher MU on tools and weapons should trigger higher MU on minerals and hunting loot. But so far I've only seen this feedback to apply to mining, why is that? I think the answer may lay in mentality and behavior of an average hunter vs average miner.
Obviously on the other side of the coin we have the material requirements on blueprints that affect this as well.

Economy is a very fragile thing to play with and MA has a very unique opportunity to control most aspects of it (unlike governments in RL), but in the end its up to us what we do with it.
In the end there's a very basic idea behind MU called Supply and Demand.

Kri said:

I was trying to stay away from expressing my opinion on MU but I'll stick my head out and see what happens


Markup is decided not by MA, not directly anyway, but by the players. It is up to ourselves to decide what the markup is. Sadly, undercutting to sell something is a very common behaviour among hunters, leading to lower markups.
Making certain drops more rare makes the markup to naturally increase.
There is a feedback mechanism in all of this. You get loot from mobs and minerals from mining, you decide how much markup should go with it, but then it is reflected in the gear that crafters create and sell back to hunters and miners. Thus higher MU on tools and weapons should trigger higher MU on minerals and hunting loot. But so far I've only seen this feedback to apply to mining, why is that? I think the answer may lay in mentality and behavior of an average hunter vs average miner.
Obviously on the other side of the coin we have the material requirements on blueprints that affect this as well.

Economy is a very fragile thing to play with and MA has a very unique opportunity to control most aspects of it (unlike governments in RL), but in the end its up to us what we do with it.
In the end there's a very basic idea behind MU called Supply and Demand.

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Yes basically you are right, so i guess i found someone now who buys the iron stack of 6 ped TT, i looted last week, for 100 ped, won't you ?

I guess the answer is no. And needless to explain why. While Markup is indeed something which is basically made by players - Mindark has a lot of power over it by regulating usefullness of items and droprates of certain items/stackables so fully the supply and demand part. And beside that not only the markup itself is important, but also how easy something is to sell. Try to sell as much tailoring materials as you can sell ores ...

as i wrote in another thread:

little ot
what they should have done from the beginning..but i think is too late now..:

- weapons, armors, tools etc only should be crafted, not looted in hunting
- ressources for crafting come from mining (ores, enmatters) and hunting (oils, special components etc)

perhaps with some possibilitys to get items in events from hunting like the one going at this moment.

i think this would benefit the whole economy. hunters and miners would sell the stuff to crafters to produce the stuff which is needed (because the "equipable" stuff only comes from the crafters).

it doesn't make sence to loot weapons and armors from animals anyway...

Sudden big changes have an impact.
If say the iron ore loot was on average 30% of the TT return of Argonauts. Players will have adjusted to that and are counting on it.
Now it is ~ 1% of the TT return. The result is a lot of players are pissed of because their play balance has been screwed up suddenly and big time.

If they had slowly changed the average rate with say 2% a month for the next year or so and added some other loot instead that has a decent chance of a bit of MU the players might have never noticed it. The change would have been gradual and the uproar would have been prevented. And the ultimate goal would have been the same.

Now some people stopped hunting, stopped playing, topped depositing. All in all a negative impact not only on the Universe but also on the income of MA itself. We have already seen it clearly on the ROI of the CLD's. When something that has clearly not been thought through has been introduced and it negatively impacts the community of players it is clearly visible in the ROI of the CLD's.

The CLD's now clearly show the consequences. The question is does MA learn from it? History so far is not on MA's side.

Cheers
Siam

Magnus Mag said:

as i wrote in another thread:

little ot
what they should have done from the beginning..but i think is too late now..:

- weapons, armors, tools etc only should be crafted, not looted in hunting
- ressources for crafting come from mining (ores, enmatters) and hunting (oils, special components etc)

perhaps with some possibilitys to get items in events from hunting like the one going at this moment.

i think this would benefit the whole economy. hunters and miners would sell the stuff to crafters to produce the stuff which is needed (because the "equipable" stuff only comes from the crafters).

it doesn't make sence to loot weapons and armors from animals anyway...

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On itself you are entirely right. The thing is it is so as it is atm. A sudden change will cause a big impact. A slow change which is thought through could achieve the situation you describe in the future. It is the big drastic change that causes the harm. MA should know by now that it needs to make sure the in game economy is stable. In that way they are like any RL government on this planet. If they screw up the economy gets screwed up. And it seems MA mirrors RL governments and does not use its brain.