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Such info about any loot alternation is useless for us, as we know little about how it works. Basically MA could not say even one word about that and some still won't notice change.

It's time for MA to reveal how loot works at all. I am sure they are aware that comunity is not so childisch to rely on ingame description on items and actions. If so why they struggle for making our lives much easier by simple revealing and admiting some facts wchich cause speculations? People are figuring out things anyway, use excel sheets and calculators, create formulas and test decay with fruits/novas. MA says holding all that info make for us some "super duper experience". Case is exploring new things with bright guidelines is same fun + additionally less frustrating and costly.
And less stupid costs just to figure or test something wchich should be in manual makes all users more happy.

If system is flawless as MA claims, knowledge about how it work won't give anyone unfair advantage. If dynamic=random even for some degree it is something all suspected anyway.
 
Ace Flyster said:
Other than that, they need to make bps use more resources (animal oils, common ores etc). Crafting drives markup and the economy, and there are a lot of mob drops that are not needed in crafting, fix that, and you will fix most things people complain about. IMAO

Rgds

Ace
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THIS :wise:
 
aia said:
In a bigger scale, you can't say like that.

Let's say there are two minerals, A and B. Before a re-balance, let's say A is 110% and B is 600%. After a re-balance, A has gone up to 120% and B is down to 200% - which means that some persons gain more, others gain less, and some people who's mining all over the place "breaks even".

If markup gets too high, this might mean items won't get sold or used.

For hunters, hunters who hunt with repairable weapons (and frequently loots (L) weapons with market value) wants high markup. Hunters who loot with (L) weapons and generally gets TT-food wants lower markups.


Me to!
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uhmm, markup is controlled by supply and demand, so if the demand is right and the supply is right there is no way in hell you will get absurdly high MU. So I don't really understand what you are talking about, sorry :(. Everybody wants high markup and the only way to achieve this is by increasing demand or limiting supply. Or both.

Ace Flyster said:
Well obviously there are not going to be any miracle drops. We already get 90+% returns. So the only thing i can see what MA will do, is either

1) reduce the loot swings so you get 90%+ returns on shorter runs
2) drop uber limited items regularly like mod faps (L) etc

Other than that, they need to make bps use more resources (animal oils, common ores etc). Crafting drives markup and the economy, and there are a lot of mob drops that are not needed in crafting, fix that, and you will fix most things people complain about. IMAO

Rgds

Ace
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As above, I totally agree. I'd also remove some oils from some creatures to limit supply and thus increase MU a bit more.
 
PaulCrystal said:
Everybody wants high markup and the only way to achieve this is by increasing demand or limiting supply.
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Ok, let me refine the situation a bit: Let's say you're hunting ambulimaxes. You don't have any decent oldschool weapon, so you're using (L) weapons. Now, you don't want to pay too much in markup.

Let's now say you typically loot thyroid oil, wool and animal hides. Sure, you *want* high markup for these, but unless there is some new fresh BP requiring tons of thyroid oil, noone is going to pay more for the thyroid oil than today. If a crafter today uses thyroid oil for skilling, me might turn into start to skill on, let's say, basic filters instead.

On the other hand, let's say you hunt Aurli Queens with your Supremacy armor, mod fap and mm+a204. You won't be using any markup while hunting - so when you're selling things (whatever it might be), you surely want market markups to be as high as possible.

Or in terms of numbers: Your cost in hunting is 125% MU, and you get 107% MU loot: MU feels bad. Your cost in hunting is 100% MU and you get 110% MU loot (ie heart oil etc), high MU feels good.

Let's now imagine MA tries to rise the MU of wool: What will happen, less people will use wool for tailoring(skilling) and for textures. Less tailoring means demad for molisk teeth/button will go down, and less texturing means less demand for texture extractors.¨

If MA reduces drops of "nice" weapons, in ordet to "up" the MU, it means they will be more expensive (which was the point), though less hunters will want to buy one for regular hunting. And, if hunters can't get the weapons they want... eventually they stop hunting and give up. Maybe stay and do occasional hunts on mobs that are manageble at opalo level just for the fun.

Another example of "high markup" just for the sake of high markup is auction: Let's say you want some pyrite to try enhancers. (Mining it yourself is no option for you.) You look in auction, see all stacks are 250% and get the feeling it's alt reseller accounts behind most of the stacks. Then you look at market value and see market value is 200%. Blah. You close auction window and do something else.
 
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aia said:
Ok, let me refine the situation a bit: Let's say you're hunting ambulimaxes. You don't have any decent oldschool weapon, so you're using (L) weapons. Now, you don't want to pay too much in markup.

Let's now say you typically loot thyroid oil, wool and animal hides. Sure, you *want* high markup for these, but unless there is some new fresh BP requiring tons of thyroid oil, noone is going to pay more for the thyroid oil than today. If a crafter today uses thyroid oil for skilling, me might turn into start to skill on, let's say, basic filters instead.

On the other hand, let's say you hunt Aurli Queens with your Supremacy armor, mod fap and mm+a204. You won't be using any markup while hunting - so when you're selling things (whatever it might be), you surely want market markups to be as high as possible.

Or in terms of numbers: Your cost in hunting is 125% MU, and you get 107% MU loot: MU feels bad. Your cost in hunting is 100% MU and you get 110% MU loot (ie heart oil etc), high MU feels good.

Let's now imagine MA tries to rise the MU of wool: What will happen, less people will use wool for tailoring(skilling) and for textures. Less tailoring means demad for molisk teeth/button will go down, and less texturing means less demand for texture extractors.¨

If MA reduces drops of "nice" weapons, in ordet to "up" the MU, it means they will be more expensive (which was the point), though less hunters will want to buy one for regular hunting. And, if hunters can't get the weapons they want... eventually they stop hunting and give up. Maybe stay and do occasional hunts on mobs that are manageble at opalo level just for the fun.

Another example of "high markup" just for the sake of high markup is auction: Let's say you want some pyrite to try enhancers. (Mining it yourself is no option for you.) You look in auction, see all stacks are 250% and get the feeling it's alt reseller accounts behind most of the stacks. Then you look at market value and see market value is 200%. Blah. You close auction window and do something else.
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and now assume a situation where part of the mobs stops dropping thyroid oil decreasing the supply just enough for the oil to have 106% mu, it is still cheap and yet expensive enough not to be tt'd. I know extreme measures look appealing in writing, but I am talking about small changes with big impact and not the excessive MU shuffle you are talking about. There is a point where supply and demand meet each other in perfect harmony. My example may not hit the nail on the head but it is still a lot better than using extremes to justify a point which would cause harm to everyone in the first place.
 
aia said:
Ok, let me refine the situation a bit: Let's say you're hunting ambulimaxes. You don't have any decent oldschool weapon, so you're using (L) weapons. Now, you don't want to pay too much in markup.

Let's now say you typically loot thyroid oil, wool and animal hides. Sure, you *want* high markup for these, but unless there is some new fresh BP requiring tons of thyroid oil, noone is going to pay more for the thyroid oil than today. If a crafter today uses thyroid oil for skilling, me might turn into start to skill on, let's say, basic filters instead.
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But the solution here could be making a smaller number of other mobs drop thyroid oil. Sort of the opposite of what happened to muscle oil when rextelum were introduced.
 
remontoire said:
But the solution here could be making a smaller number of other mobs drop thyroid oil. Sort of the opposite of what happened to muscle oil when rextelum were introduced.
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That is what I was talking about, a small change with a meaningful impact.
 
Had thought a bit on this .. Would probably good to MA balances loot because it has become too easy to hunt or so I would think that MA needs to make the mobs harder to kill.:sniper:
 
valentin said:
Had thought a bit on this .. Would probably good to MA balances loot because it has become too easy to hunt or so I would think that MA needs to make the mobs harder to kill.:sniper:
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That is what MA have been doing for the last few years. People will adapt - Muscle oil is 102%, Thyroid oil is about the same. Mobs became faster, you can't outrun anything anymore unless it is a rippersnapper and you jump out of the water. The mobs regenerate and live longer trying to kill you.

The best weapon DPS wise is still an imp strike or MM. They made the mobs harder and it didn't work permanently. It will never work, because unless you want a dead environment balance is dynamic. Depending on what the people hunt or mine or craft you have to adopt the elements to fit the puzzle. In order to do that you need an Algorithm and MA does not have one. This is the reason they have to do everything by hand and also the reason for the newest loot shuffle. It is a step in the right direction and will buy us some time but will eventually fail again. Then it has to be fixed again only to get broken again.

It is dynamic but still requires a lot of work from ppl like Kim or Chris. Coming back to the point:

If you make all mobs harder to hunt you will not change loot distribution, it will just mean more people will hunt the same mob and the same amount of loot will be provided by a bigger number of people. But since the number of people in the universe is finite it will cause certain resources to rise in price because the same number of people hunting has to be spread to cover an increased amount of mob power. (which proves your point)

But in order to give the most basic resources like oils a decent MU you would have to do much more than that. You would need to limit drops to certain mobs (e.g. only snables, armax and dasp drop eye oil) in order to restrict supply of the lowest MU things.

The problem with this approach is that an increase in MU will make participants wealthier and thus the price of gear will rise, which is not what MA would want because it would make the game more expensive to play.

I'll end it here. As you can see it is quite a complex matter :)
 
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I don't mind playing EU if I get value for my money- this has not been working for me for sometime.
I will change my game play to more eco and give it 3 month after the rebalance see if anything has impoved if not im out here. :yup:
 
loren said:
I don't mind playing EU if I get value for my money- this has not been working for me for sometime.
I will change my game play to more eco and give it 3 month after the rebalance see if anything has impoved if not im out here. :yup:
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Loren, what do you mean by "get value for my money", if you tell the devs what you want they may be able to address it. Just "value for my money" is a bit vague. Being more precise might speed up the time of implementing what you want :)
 
wizzszz said:
Did you ask me that? Or MA?

I think my post (and the post i answered to) made it very clear that i do think that the drop rate sucks - and that i do not expect it to get better anytime soon.

Is my english that bad?
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No i wanted you to see its not just skills who sucks.
 
Bertha Bot, you forgot to add the following information.

Warning : Be advised that the general system requirements may no longer be accurate after this update ! It might be very well possible, that after this update your system needs a upgrade, in order for you to keep using you current graphics settings !
 
valentin said:
No i wanted you to see its not just skills who sucks.
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I think you've lost me - "more skills = still sucks" or what are you trying to say?
(I think i didn't even mention skills)


Mariko Ninja said:
Bertha Bot, you forgot to add the following information.

Warning : Be advised that the general system requirements may no longer be accurate after this update ! It might be very well possible, that after this update your system needs a upgrade, in order for you to keep using you current graphics settings !
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I think Bertha was too afraid to post something like that... :silly2:



Losing more players... honk if you think that MA wants EU all for themselves!

*honk*
 
Mariko Ninja said:
Bertha Bot, you forgot to add the following information.

Warning : Be advised that the general system requirements may no longer be accurate after this update ! It might be very well possible, that after this update your system needs a upgrade, in order for you to keep using you current graphics settings !
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I see nothing in the preview text that would justify an increased system requirement? Only the other way around.
 
Nighthawk said:
I see nothing in the preview text that would justify an increased system requirement? Only the other way around.
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Same. The avatar upgrade will likely utilize tessellation and reduce overall polygon count in the avatars. Resulting in a performance increase.

Now if only theyd start developing in DX11. Windows XP has been dead for a few years now. Eventually we must move on. Developing for DX9 at this stage sounds like a hinderance.
 
No server down for VU announcement?

I've not seen a server down for VU message for tomorrow... will we have update tomorrow?
 
My prediction

Weapons and armour stop dropping in hunting loot. New crafted alternatives are made available, using a bunch of new materials that are added to hunting loot. Everyone gets annoyed about too much crap in storage. Hunting as a viable profitable profession is over on Calypso, which in turn screws other professions.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
Oleg said:
Weapons and armour stop dropping in hunting loot. New crafted alternatives are made available, using a bunch of new materials that are added to hunting loot. Everyone gets annoyed about too much crap in storage. Hunting as a viable profitable profession is over on Calypso, which in turn screws other professions.

I hope I'm wrong.
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I hope that to sir...:bowdown:
 
remontoire said:
Dead? XP just recently stopped being the most used desktop platform...
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Windows XP was meant to be retired 2 years ago. However with the Windows Vista debacle the life cycle was extended into 2014.

However, microsoft's own words explain it best.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/endofsupport.aspx

The product is done. It's only getting security fixes now, but even those will likely become a thing of the past after the retirement date passes.
 
Oleg said:
Weapons and armour stop dropping in hunting loot. New crafted alternatives are made available, using a bunch of new materials that are added to hunting loot. Everyone gets annoyed about too much crap in storage. Hunting as a viable profitable profession is over on Calypso, which in turn screws other professions.

I hope I'm wrong.
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I don't think it would be a good development. But having just gotten a 40 ped loot with 11 peds of ammo inside ... something needs to change. The ammo percentage in many mobs has been steadily growing and is really annoying. Still looting FAP-5 etc and Punisher MK II etc is also ridiculous.
 
Al in al its getting more and more obvious what MA is trying to do.
Killing of every damn MU slowly but surely to make sure it gets harder and harder to profit in the long run without buying epic epic uber gear.
The prediction above dosent feel to far of im afraid.

On the other hand they might acctualy do what we ask they might increase TT return ammo vs loot. Of course killing the last MU will makes things worse but hey everything comes at a price.
 
My guess is that mobs will drop new crafting materials needed for new bps!
 
Comon.. we can't give MA steady whining about their every attempt of change.. What about some constructive criticism, atleast?

In the "form" wich a load of us filled we stated that the "No loot" was one of the major problems ingame. Ofcourse MA cannot swap the No loots to High markup items. It's gotta be ammo or someting similar. I still prefer ammo rather then No loots but hey, thats just me..

/starclassic
 
theStarclassic said:
Comon.. we can't give MA steady whining about their every attempt of change.. What about some constructive criticism, atleast?

In the "form" wich a load of us filled we stated that the "No loot" was one of the major problems ingame. Ofcourse MA cannot swap the No loots to High markup items. It's gotta be ammo or someting similar. I still prefer ammo rather then No loots but hey, thats just me..

/starclassic
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They "fixed" the "no loots" by giving us worthless fragments instead... great improvement, really... :rolleyes:
 
wizzszz said:
They "fixed" the "no loots" by giving us worthless fragments instead... great improvement, really... :rolleyes:
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Actually, last weekend i haven't seen as many "no looters" as before so I guess they have done something. (But I guess just by saying this I'll be avenged with getting nothing but no looters next time I log in :laugh: )
 
it will be any update the 9 oct???? i accept bids about :)
 
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