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Peititon: re-enable T in space

jaywalker

jaywalker

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Juniper Jaywalker Jones
As I understand it, T from vehicles was disabled within PvP to prevent people in land-based PvP from hiding in vehicles whilst they T.

In space, it is altogether different:

You cannot travel through space without a vehicle, so to disable T from vehicle in space is to effectively completely disable T in space, and all its perfectly legitimate uses
You cannot exit from a vehicle in space therefore, if you are a passenger when the pilot disconnects, goes afk, takes you in the wrong direction or whatever, you are stuck inside that vehicle. Equally, if you are the pilot, and run into any inextricable difficulty, you are stuck
T though space is used to shorten journey times, just as it is planetside This adjustment does not prevent people from doing this planetside (where you can get anywhere within 5 minutes , using vehicles and teleporters), only in space, where journeys by quad can take up to one hour (longer, if delayed by pirates or using a sleip). This is clearly unfair.
You cannot escape being Pk-ed by T-ing from a vehicle in space, as you can, planetside because space weapons are designed to cut through a quad much faster than you can T out of it. Also, a quad will come to an abrupt halt if the pilot presses T, thus making it an easier target. It is therefore unneccessary to apply this rule to space

Please add your signature if you agree that T should be re-enabled in space (If you wish to comment, but not sign, please make this very clear. If you wish to sign, please add YOUR FULL AVATAR NAME to your post)

signed

Juniper Jaywalker Jones
Narfi Hungry Willem
Jim EwoK Morris
ea aia nou
Mark Rufen Power
Joey Jay-Jay Javonie
Maria Mastermesh Mesh
Mungo Baobob
dasouth Genious dasouth
Drake Slade Corbett
Bemo Guinness Stout
Neil Greenleaf Stockton
dale dalewj ofj
Tomas T79x Hope
Storm Spawn Bootcamp
Mini MiniM Mine
chris enzo enzo
Aadu dRifteR Asi
Joe yoda Bebe
Arnold Terminator Swarzzy
Xandra MadMaiden Xandottir
 
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Sorry Jay, i have to disagree on this.
I am very convinced that revive terminals were never intended to be used as teleporters to cut travel times short - not on the planets and neither in space.
Just because they got used in such a way doesnt mean it was intended.
IMO people who travel in sleipnirs / quads should have an eject/exit command for when their shuttle gets stuck for what reason ever so that they could die in space and revive.
But it still should be always the revive of the last spaceserver they were registered to until they make at least 90-95% of the way to the next revive to avoid cutting short travels.

Currently we still have a very tiny space which sure will grow further as time goes on and keeping revives as teleporters will mean that whatever meassures mindark will put in space to separate economies further as they grow stronger would be surpassable if T remained possible the way it currently works.
 
Please turn T back on in space :)

I ran out of fuel in my quad about 2 meters from foma station and had to relog to revive inside, this is frustrating for me and a majority of travelers.

narfi
 
I would have to say I like how the T does not exist anymore makes things more interesting i think
 
Its good how it is.
 
Please dont turn T back in space.
 
John B Knight said:
....avoid cutting short travels.

Currently we still have a very tiny space which sure will grow further as time goes on and keeping revives as teleporters will mean that whatever meassures mindark will put in space to separate economies further as they grow stronger would be surpassable if T remained possible the way it currently works.
Click to expand...

Umm...why do we have motherships with warp if the object is to lengthen space travel and seperate economies ? You have said yourself that MS travel is now cheaper than flying by quad, as well as much faster (and you said that before they disabled T)

As you know, this problem is particularly tedious for mothership crews. It takes me a whole hour to join Normandie when I'm on NI, and then another hour to get back to NI after my tour of duty by using T, I could cut that down to half-an-hour , which is still an ample disincentive to travelling by quad , if i only had another option.

And, btw, I never evaded pirates this way at all, because they do hang around Space stations, as well as the convenient T-points. So it's a gamble: will pirates add more to my journey time than I save ? People carrying stackables are surely not going take that risk, so it's still maximum journey time for them

I think you're cutting your own throat by taking this stance , John. The lack of T is a disencentive to crew flying out to join your shps, and also a disincentive to people sharing transport, when flying down (thus increasing cost of MS travel too)

I am one of the most stubborn players on earth, and if I'm beginning to think of quitting my role in space because it suddenly became a whole lot more time-consuming and tedious, you can be pretty sure that others think the same.

jay:)
 
Strash said:
I would have to say I like how the T does not exist anymore makes things more interesting i think
Click to expand...

Hey, Strash. Can you elaborate on this?

From my own perspective it made things a lot more boring, because long quad journeys through space are the least entertaining aspects of EU. And you don't even meet any pirates on the way , if you don't T to space stations.

So who gets extra entertainment out of this? And how?



jay :)
 
Evil Aeon said:
alt+f4 will save your time :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That forces a DC, presumably?

Well, in some situations people will do that, of course, having no realistic option (short of waiting for Support to relocate them). Have done it myself. But that's hardly ideal.

In the event that you are trying to join or re-join a larger vessel, there's the danger of being left behind, if you vanish. In the event of T-thru space...well stopping to T was already verging on more time and trouble than its worth, at many junctures. Adding a DC, along with an interval of hanging there waiting to die, loss of active PM windows etc, tips the balance to make it far too much trouble, and no saving in time at all unless you hang there like a hawk. I now go afk and do the washing up, or have a coffee instead.

But inasmuch as people will take your advice, in what way will it improve gameplay to have people forcing DC all over space? If T is not the way the game was meant was meant to played, that surely isn't either. That's considerably worse.



jay :)
 
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jaywalker said:
But inasmuch as people will take your advice, in what way will it improve gameplay to have people forcing DC all over space? If T is not the way the game was meant was meant to played, that surely isn't either. That's considerably worse.



jay :)
Click to expand...

This should be addressed not to me but to MA :laugh: ,I`m just noob player who try to adapt to this crap :laugh:
 
sign me up Jay, I like to at least have the option of cutting my journey time. Motherships are all well and good (and thankyou to the people that run them) but you have to be ready to fly when they are scheduled, unless you go VIP. As for pirates.....well i'm sure i don't need to share my opinion of them do I? ;)

Jim EwoK Morris
 
I'll sign.

/ea aia nou

jaywalker said:
As I understand it, T from vehicles was disabled within PvP to prevent people in land-based PvP from hiding in vehicles whilst they T.
Click to expand...

Vehicles are now (as far as I know) disabled in the area where vehicles caused trouble - PVP4. And if someone T's to get away from oil rig... uh... let them.
Maybe it's a problem for other lootable areas like pvp3 (no idea if there are unique resources there.) My hope was that removing vehicles from pvp3 would reduce the need for nerfs in other areas.

jaywalker said:
In space, it is altogether different:

You cannot travel through space without a vehicle, so to disable T from vehicle in space is to effectively completely disable T in space, and all its perfectly legitimate uses
Click to expand...

Yes, I think it's possible to get your vehicle stuck in space (maybe fixed with last VU?) - ie if exploring a space station (from outside - in space) you can probably get your quad stuck in the "tubing". (I've tried to see if MA have added some way to get to the inaccessible areas from outside - so far without suggess. There is an opening into the spacestation from one of the long "pins" where you can fly in - though the interior is pretty dull... it would have been nice to actually be able to visit the parts you can glimpse from the "inside".)

As for people who used to use T to evade a fight or to "cut distance" - I guess logging out serves the same purpose.
 
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Mark Rufen Power

Signed.
 
This topic reminds me a lot of a vu back in ... early 2007 ? (I've been looking thru the release notes, but I can't see which one it was .. anyone else recall it ?).

Up until that VU, dying had a longer timer than hitting T (30secs?). So it was almost routine practice that, when you died, you hit T to get to the revive faster (10secs?). I dont recall the exact times, but it was something like 30secs to automatically revive on dying but only 10secs to hit T.

MindArk decided that was an exploit and changed the system to the way it is now instead.

My guess is that, in disabling T in space, MindArk has decided that it's use to reduce travel times by quad/sleip is an exploit. In which case, they're not likely to change it back, petition or not.
 
Although I agree with what Serica says...


/Signed

Joey Jay-Jay Javonie
 
Not signing, but what acctually happens if i run out of fuel in the middle of the space, how do i come back to a planet again?:scratch2:
 
Now with public access to MSs and privateers, by pressing T you can end up anywhere and possibly not where you would like to be :)
 
Honestly how many drive on vacation without fueling their car or checking it through for that matter ?
If one can plan ahead to keep the peds for planetary reentry then it should belong to the most basic 'carcheck' to see if its fueled, if the thruster has charges and if i have 2 ped for reentry.
As long as people dont check these very basics before aproaching space, we really have an far to easy going space experiences out there.
I bet that most people spend more time choosing the right armorset before going on a hunt then they spend choosing the right 'travelset' before flying to another planet...

Of course it would also help if mindark put a warning message out like with the thrusters whenever fuel level would get low.

One more thing to add in regards to T- please also keep in mind that T ing in space is in one way that straight effects mindark different then Ting planetside was: Traveling in space burns fuel and Ting in space allowed a majority of spacetravelers to skip 40% of the fuelburn which mindark had planned it to cost to move between planets.
 
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Serica said:
This topic reminds me a lot of a vu back in ... early 2007 ? (I've been looking thru the release notes, but I can't see which one it was .. anyone else recall it ?).

Up until that VU, dying had a longer timer than hitting T (30secs?). So it was almost routine practice that, when you died, you hit T to get to the revive faster (10secs?). I dont recall the exact times, but it was something like 30secs to automatically revive on dying but only 10secs to hit T.

MindArk decided that was an exploit and changed the system to the way it is now instead.

My guess is that, in disabling T in space, MindArk has decided that it's use to reduce travel times by quad/sleip is an exploit. In which case, they're not likely to change it back, petition or not.
Click to expand...

Well, you notice that MA didn't respond to that issue by disabling T completely, like they have for space? I guess they wouldn't like the rush of "stuck" support cases, or the pissed-off players quiitting in droves if they did

My guess is that they just didn't think about it enough to realise that disabling T from vehicles effectively stops people T-ing at all, when in space.

Remember all the fun we had when they first banned vehicles from PA, but still dropped all the space vehicles there? Hadn't thought it through, had they? They are pretty famous for that :laugh:

Svarog said:
Now with public access to MSs and privateers, by pressing T you can end up anywhere and possibly not where you would like to be :)
Click to expand...

True, but no reason why you shouldn't have that choice. Most of the time I would much rather land on the wrong MS than be stuck. I was thinking of suggesting to MA that a dialogue window should let people choose which "nearby" terminal they revive at, but thats' pretty pointless with T disabled :(


jay :)
 
John B Knight said:
One more thing to add in regards to T- please also keep in mind that T ing in space is in one way that straight effects mindark different then Ting planetside was: Traveling in space burns fuel and Ting in space allowed a majority of spacetravelers to skip 40% of the fuelburn which mindark had planned it to cost to move between planets.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they can find ways to compensate. For instance, I used to notice that my quad lost SI and needed repair whenever I T'd. So it seems they thought of something already.

They have not, however, thought of ways to compensate for the fuel I've lost when set back due server going down, server crash, client instability etc :laugh: what's more, I have to pay for those things in reduced SI too.

jay :)
 
jaywalker said:
...
Click to expand...

I do recall they totally ignored the 'pissed off players' at the time who complained about the increased time taken to revive, and the cost to the players of the extra mob regen in the extra seconds it took to get back to the mob that killed them. I remember it well I guess as, at the time, I used to spend a fair bit of time dying and reviving :) MA's response essentially was that an exploit was an exploit.

T now takes a good deal longer than it used to on a planet, before they made that change. Perhaps they'll just extend it to say 10minutes in space instead.
 
Serica said:
I do recall they totally ignored the 'pissed off players' at the time who complained about the increased time taken to revive, and the cost to the players of the extra mob regen in the extra seconds it took to get back to the mob that killed them. I remember it well I guess as, at the time, I used to spend a fair bit of time dying and reviving :) MA's response essentially was that an exploit was an exploit.

T now takes a good deal longer than it used to on a planet, before they made that change. Perhaps they'll just extend it to say 10minutes in space instead.
Click to expand...

OK, so using T to cut down on revive time, when killed, was an exploit.

Have MA ever said that using T to speed up a TP run, get past an aggressive mobfield etc is an exploit? (that's the sort of thing it's used for space. Cutting down on revive time was never an option)

And if it is, then isn't Stave Petty (and nearly everybody else) in a whole lot of trouble?

jay :)
 
Maybe it wasnt implemented to stop space station hopping, or getting away from a fight - but to stop people being stuck on public access privateers who arent docked? Can Imagine there would be quite alot of support cases of people requesting to be moved if they hit T and got stuck... But I guess they would learn fast that T = getting stuck!

or maybe it was implemented to stop all 3 :)


IIRC it still works from within a MS im guessing as the inside of the ship is not in space. (handy for when getting stuck under the rails! :ahh:)

It is a bit of a problem when a quad pilot dcs or does anything as the passenger is potentially a prisoner, but I guess a re-log kinda just does the same, just takes longer. Maybe if passengers were allowed to T.... means they coudl get back to a ss/ms if thier pilot crashes, or the pilot is going the wrong way etc. nah.... that would defeat the purpose as then people would just switch seats and T..scrap that! :laugh:
 
Good points from the op. Add me to the signature list.

Also, if they do re-add it... make an option... where T gives you option to revive on nearest ship's revive OR revive on nearest space station revive, OR pay a small fee, equal to roughly what the interplanetary tp cost was before interplanetary tps were taken out of the game and revive at planet of your choice -- cost for tp to planet will vary depending on distance from each of the planets based your coordinates at the time of hitting T.

In on planet pvp zones if you die, you revive OUTSIDE of the pvp zone. Should work the same way in space pvp imho. Otherwise, any other option is similar to adding a revive right at the oil rig and making people get stuck there by bullies with no way out.... sort of similar to the way folks used to get stuck at Hadeshiem when the bots took over the city and overran the revive, making avatars just revive in order to die over and over and over in a stupid endless loop... what fun is the game if you have no choice to do anything except die over and over and over, trapped? May be ok for skilling dodge a time or two, but endless death for more than 10 minutes at a time gets old very quickly, so most just quit in those type of situations until backup came, which in some cases required MA to come in with it's own avatar and super powered guns... that sort of situation isn't good for this real cash economy on planet, nor in space.
 
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Alainax said:
Maybe it wasnt implemented to stop space station hopping, or getting away from a fight - but to stop people being stuck on public access privateers who arent docked? :
Click to expand...

Good point. There's no way to exit from a privateer that isn't docked, is there?

Still , disabling T (which is there to help people who are stuck for other reasons) is the dumbest possible solution to the problem, if that's what it is. It wouldn't even help much, since most people arrive on a ship by other means than T-ing, and some of those means are outside your control (eg DC in the vicinity or accidentally clicking on summon)

Public access should be completely disabled until MA find a way to make it really workable.


jay :)
 
Alainax said:
Maybe it wasnt implemented to stop space station hopping, or getting away from a fight - but to stop people being stuck on public access privateers who arent docked?
Click to expand...

You can still get stuck on a privateer if out hunting, you run out of ammo or ship is nearly broken and you decide to "hug a mob" to remove the last of the ships SI to (hopefully) get to a place you can TT loots, repair up ship and get more ammo.

Or if you get killed by a pirate.

jaywalker said:
Public access should be completely disabled until MA find a way to make it really workable.
Click to expand...

Well public access by itself is rather cool, and it would be really convenient to have on landbased vehicles also (so you can bring someone to a TP, or take fapper out to hunt, without having to add the person to all vehicles you got just-in-case).

Problem is more that the impossibility to leave certain vehicles in certain places.

(I think removing yourself from GL just to be able to leave a vehicle is rather clumpsy, let's say you want to be able to go with the privateer in the future, but *right now* you want to leave the privateer because you have an urgent business down at Calypso and you can't wait until the huntingtrip is officially over.)

Maybe some "eject" funtion, that (technically) would "ban" you from ship for 5 minutes; you'd get kicked out in space and you'd revive somewhere else.
 
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I would disagree as well.

I travel quite a bit in my quad to all planets, and have no issues without ever needing to use T.

I actually enjoy the flights, though space needs ALOT more mobs! to make it that much more special.

If I do want a short and safer route, I use a MS. I have options depending on my time or willing risk, and that is fair IMO.

Space is full of risk, and those that wish to take it should do so equally, and without undercutting investments in large spacecraft. IMO. There should be something to even the playing field of risk/reward for space. Fixing this "T" shortcut and the observed speed difference issues, would be a fantastic start.

To make it more fair as you say.

And while frustrating for many, space is designed to be a heavily discouraged, high risk event, which really is in the best interests of all players due to the economy effects.

Also, this probably satisfies some part of current PP legal agreements to try to limit the economy drain.
So I doubt they could even consider such a suggestion.

I do agree for passengers there should be a jettison button. How that is handled, I am not sure.

Into a Pod to continue without hitting a SS?
to the SS where a pirate may be waiting?
With the ability to spawn a ship?
or maybe a random location that can be sent as a special "warp to" link for pickup from a pilot.

That would be the issue I think. but without using "T", or being able to cheat into T easily...like exiting the game.
 
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