Notice of Changes to Treasure Island in Calypso Updates 2013.1 and 2013.1.1

Remember that the ore drop rate on your miner bots has been reduced by 33% Deathifier. I'm sure you cannot verify that but I can as a hunter of your mobs some time ago. The drop could not be missed.
 
2 weeks on and I have yet to receive an explanation for the changes.

In the meantime they decided to switch off the Letomie and Hogglo spawns entirely.

- Deathifier

Sup, you lost a dayly hunter on the Letomie spawn.

Hopefully the DNA parts around l be set up to a new spawn of them ...

Personally i lost intrest to stay Caly longer.

greetigs
 
Update - a partial explanation was provided yesterday (Thursday) and as a courtesy I requested permission to share it with the community.

Unfortunately there was no response today (Friday) to that request, which means there are unlikely to be further updates until next week :(


If there is a reason linked to the event then all they need to say is basically "wait and see" which I then post here and perhaps there'd even be a bit of anticipation and mystery.

Also MindArk and Planet Calypso have been provided a link to this thread - nothing stops them posting their explanation here directly.

- Deathifier

I'll start shooting into thin air at ghost mobs on your LA's I guess:)

Seems bit dismal for all to be unable to hunt and ofc your mob followers being cut short hence no income.
Cheers
Hope all is resolved soon Dave.

BTW the Fefox were the fugliest mob I've ever encountered:tongue2:

Xapholophagus ;)
 
MA and other people's land

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of it, future benefits or potential problems. There appears to be a serious lack of communication between the LA owner/investor and developer.

I noticed the hills were reduced on the Saba Rex area some time ago, although that seemed to work out quite nice. Interestingly the owners were not informed of changes to the terraforming of their LA.

I'd say it would be appropriate if developers could discuss potential changes with their investors. Lets hope it all gets sorted out and everyone is happy.

Rick
could not agree more they sold the LA it is no longer there's to fuck with as they feel fit it belongs to death and if there are any changes to be made they must be approved buy him they have a obligation to keep the la alive as it was sold if changes are to be made they MUST contact death and get his approval or explain there plans with him and still get his approval because it is not there space if I owned the land and u changed it without out explanation or my permission I would think about suing u MA for breach of fair trading u cant sell a product then change it as u see fit with out consulting the owner and getting the rights to do so imagine doing this in the real world selling some land then going and building on it with out the owners permission any court would order u remove it and pay damages MA wake up we are your income look after us.
 
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could not agree more they sold the LA it is no longer there's to fuck with as they feel fit it belongs to death and if there are any changes to be made they must be approved buy him they have a obligation to keep the la alive as it was sold if changes are to be made they MUST contact death and get his approval or explain there plans with him and still get his approval because it is not there space if I owned the land and u changed it without out explanation or my permission I would think about suing u MA for breach of fair trading u cant sell a product then change it as u see fit with out consulting the owner and getting the rights to do so imagine doing this in the real world selling some land then going and building on it with out the owners permission any court would order u remove it and pay damages MA wake up we are your income look after us.

So I hope you don't own CLD or MA will have to ask you before making any changes to Calypso :wise:
 
So I hope you don't own CLD or MA will have to ask you before making any changes to Calypso :wise:

/sarcasm on
Yes because owning a Land area and owning a CLD are the same thing...
/sarcasm off

On a side note-
When we get to place buildings on our claimed lots (3x3 CLD minimum lots), if we ever get that chance, then it could be comparable.
 
AXE be fair

It's good that you people support Deathifier, but you actually want MA to give inside information to a player before everone else just because he has LA.
I don't know what is their deal or what MA will make there, but let say that the next supper instance will start there, or next new mob or next robot attack or just some bug that they can't fix until next update. You want a letter from MA to Deathifier explaining everything :scratch2:
If that happen I guess even more people will be pissed of.
"Hey Deathifier we are adding super loot to Hogglo on 21 of May for a week so just wait everything is gonna be ok.
Thank you for your kindness and consideration,
As always, with affection, Kim :girl:"

ok so lets say they got big plans they still have a obligaton to say hay death we cant give u detail but we going to mess with YOUR land area just hang in there and u be ok what they have done is rude and wrong they have left a land owner with no explanation to his customers other than im been fuck up the ass !! plz reply to that
 
your kidding your self

So I hope you don't own CLD or MA will have to ask you before making any changes to Calypso :wise:

owning a land area and a cld are not the same thing with a cld we just hope the company returns a profit
but owing a la is that u OWN the space your comment is stupid think before u post again
 
/sarcasm on
Yes because owning a Land area and owning a CLD are the same thing...
/sarcasm off

On a side note-
When we get to place buildings on our claimed lots (3x3 CLD minimum lots), if we ever get that chance, then it could be comparable.

/sarcasm on
Yes because owning a Land area and owning a Calypso LAND LOT DEED are so different
/sarcasm off

lol
 
owning a land area and a cld are not the same thing with a cld we just hope the company returns a profit
but owing a la is that u OWN the space your comment is stupid think before u post again

Well your comment is wrong on so many levels it's hard to comment on it lol

CLD stands for Calypso LAND LOT DEED.
And with LA you hope for profit too.
And I doubt when you buy LA there is small print that says MA will not make any changes to any LA.
And not sure the words 'owning' and 'OWN the space' are quite right.
 
So I hope you don't own CLD or MA will have to ask you before making any changes to Calypso :wise:

Well actually, when they invented the CLD, one of the benefits was that we were supposed to be able to vote on things. I think everyone in this thread would like to have voted on whether they would fuck up the map and remove mobs.

That being said, I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that none of this was intentional but just another MA screw up. Unfortunately, they do seem to be taking an inexcusable amount of time to fix it and/or explain it to the LA owner.
 
It's stuff like this that make me never want to deposit again. We used to think it was safe to invest in things and now MA has taken away any confidence we have with them.
 
Well your comment is wrong on so many levels it's hard to comment on it lol

CLD stands for Calypso LAND LOT DEED.
And with LA you hope for profit too.
And I doubt when you buy LA there is small print that says MA will not make any changes to any LA.
And not sure the words 'owning' and 'OWN the space' are quite right.

All CLD promise are a share of a set % of revenue.

Changing LA's would be like changing the % paid to CLD owners.

Both scenarios are NOT exceptable.

Rgds

Ace
 
It's good that you people support Deathifier, but you actually want MA to give inside information to a player before everone else just because he has LA.
Well, in this matter, actually "yes".
If someone has bought property from you, and you are gonna change it (that differs from what the person has paid for), then of course the owner should be notified.

That being said, I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that none of this was intentional but just another MA screw up. Unfortunately, they do seem to be taking an inexcusable amount of time to fix it and/or explain it to the LA owner.
Just kinda funny that, you acknowledge, that they continually screw up things that should not be screwed up at all, but that is just "ok" for you.
I don't think it's okay at all, they should really get a grip on things already and not just screw random things around.
(unless this was all intentional, which makes it even worse)
 
Just kinda funny that, you acknowledge, that they continually screw up things that should not be screwed up at all, but that is just "ok" for you.
I don't think it's okay at all, they should really get a grip on things already and not just screw random things around.
(unless this was all intentional, which makes it even worse)

I am constantly appalled by how awful their releases are. If any organization that I ever worked with released code like this, everyone would have been fired. When it looked like they finally figured out version control and configuration management, I had a brief glimmer of hope. But, truth be told, I can't even come up with a story as to how some of this stuff gets released. Maybe, in the very distant future, they will hire a test group and learn how to do code reviews, but I don't have a lot of hope.

So, in response to your post- No, it is not "ok". All things considered, investing any real money in this game is like dropping your trousers, greasing up your sphincter, and grabbing your ankles. No matter what they told you and regardless of what your fantasies are, I think we can all see what's coming. Yet, people keep doing it. I guess it must not be as bad as it seems from a distance.
 
Well actually, when they invented the CLD, one of the benefits was that we were supposed to be able to vote on things. I think everyone in this thread would like to have voted on whether they would fuck up the map and remove mobs.

That being said, I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that none of this was intentional but just another MA screw up. Unfortunately, they do seem to be taking an inexcusable amount of time to fix it and/or explain it to the LA owner.

I concur and believe there may be other forces in rally.
Although I think the languid nature of response is in detriment. MA may have a kick arse action up there sleeve, I hope it does not involve Garcen Grease and bending over bubba;)
 
I am constantly appalled by how awful their releases are. If any organization that I ever worked with released code like this, everyone would have been fired. When it looked like they finally figured out version control and configuration management, I had a brief glimmer of hope. But, truth be told, I can't even come up with a story as to how some of this stuff gets released. Maybe, in the very distant future, they will hire a test group and learn how to do code reviews, but I don't have a lot of hope.

So, in response to your post- No, it is not "ok". All things considered, investing any real money in this game is like dropping your trousers, greasing up your sphincter, and grabbing your ankles. No matter what they told you and regardless of what your fantasies are, I think we can all see what's coming. Yet, people keep doing it. I guess it must not be as bad as it seems from a distance.

I like this response. I also had it in my head. I was like, "Ok, why are people messing around in production? Don't they have a dev/test environment to play around in? If not, why not? If so, who made the changes to prod and why did they make those changes directly to prod before the official prod release? Who has access?" etc. and all the other questions I would ask in this situation if this happened on my watch. It in fact, does not happen here where I work, because we have a mature process with adequate systems, processes, and controls in place. Like you said, if it happened where I work, there would be a full investigation how and why it happened, and responded to accordingly depending on the results of that investigation.

It seems like its been amateur hour at MA ever since I can remember, or is this just a smaller scale more flexible dynamic "Agile" process at work :laugh: Are they really that resource constrained? Or, since this is a different kind of company/product and its really that hard to manage? My experience is with very complex enterprise business systems, I don't have any experience with a single product company like this, so I really don't have experience in this type of environment to say, but again I can only think, is it really this hard? In my experience I would say no its not, and that's the frustration for many of us who watch it go on like this year after year.

The company I work for has about 500m in annual Net Income, so we can afford the multiple environments (virtual and otherwise) and a whole department to manage the change control process, that's the perspective I have, and it may not be fair to judge MA's development process in the same light. MA's a black box for me, so who knows. MA probably just doesn't have the resources (time, money, people) to enable multiple environments and the systematic mature controls to manage them, but it is a matter of scale. Just because they are smaller doesn't mean they couldn't implement an effective system of process and controls. I do recall reading a while back that someone was hired at MA as I think a development manager, but I can't remember where I saw that reference to look it up to verify, maybe someone else remembers.

At a minimum, I'd say stop making changes in prod outside of a normal release schedule. There's no reason in my mind that someone should be making changes in prod like this outside of a normal release.

If someone wants to play around they should be doing it in a dev/test/training environment. If MA doesn't have multiple environments to work in, they should look into setting them up. This is the age of the virtual machine and thus the virtual environment. They could/should look into getting that set up if they don't already. If they do have that set up. They should have a way to make changes in a "training" environment and give access to LA owners to go look at proposed terrain changes and let them sign off on them before those changes are made to production as per the schedule, or at least be aware of what's going to change and when. I don't think that gives anyone any kind of competitive advantage over the rest of the player base, I would guess there would be a way to restrict what they could see, but I'm speculating and I could be overlooking something.

All in all, its just been like this for years and seems like there should/could be a better way, for all concerned.
 
You probably should have sold TI when you made a planet whose economy and instances revolve around resources only found on your taxed land.
 
Deathifier don't listen to these people. I don't think any of them are thinking things through to their correct conclusions...


"Ok, why are people messing around in production? Don't they have a dev/test environment to play around in? If not, why not? If so, who made the changes to prod and why did they make those changes directly to prod before the official prod release? Who has access?"

Perhaps, maybe there is hope for you Mac though since you managed to think along these lines but how come your conclusion was so different to mine?

If devs are doing what I think they are doing I don't think it's a bug or accident or lack of testing etc. Nothing is "wrong" or needs fixing it's just a case of player misconceptions as far as I can tell.
 
Deathifier don't listen to these people. I don't think any of them are thinking things through to their correct conclusions...

Perhaps, maybe there is hope for you Mac though since you managed to think along these lines but how come your conclusion was so different to mine?

If devs are doing what I think they are doing I don't think it's a bug or accident or lack of testing etc. Nothing is "wrong" or needs fixing it's just a case of player misconceptions as far as I can tell.

Ok, going back again and looking at what Deathifier wrote, as opposed to going off my memory..

Dear Entropia Universe Community,

In Planet Calypso update 2013.1 and/or update 2013.1.1 a number of changes were made to Treasure Island.

These changes were not requested by me, were done without my input, and were deployed without notifying me.

After becoming aware of and examining the changes I have determined that they are likely to negatively affect visitors to Treasure Island and I would like to make the community aware of the issues in an effort to minimise their impact until they are addressed.

Planet Calypso’s developers were asked to explain why the changes were made on the 30th of April 2013 and I will update this announcement when I receive an explanation.

I didn't come to a completely different conclusion than you, I agree with some of what you wrote, but not all of it. I was kind of mixing up two separate but similar things in the same post and that part was wrong, but I was trying to describe the change control process for those who might not understand that its a formal process that is supposed to prevent these kinds of things from happening. Its clear that the change was a result of a release, not someone mucking around in production outside of a release as I was wondering about, so you can ignore that part if you like because it was most likely not the case, but that production access control is still a part of the over all change control process, so I'll just leave that in there.

Since those changes don't seem to make any sense in the overall context, and seem to be an incremental change, they were most likely the result of planned future changes. So, in that case I would say you are correct its not a "bug", but whether those changes were supposed to be in THIS release, or ANOTHER release is the question in my mind.

I don't agree with you that "nothing is 'wrong' or needs fixing". I would say it IS wrong, and should be fixed and put back the way it was until its all ready to go, or what is more likely the case, put in with the rest of the changes that are planned so it makes sense. It's usually easier to just go forward than roll back so I would expect they are going to wait until they are ready with the next release to "fix" it. But hey, bullets aren't being fired so they are loosing money so I would think they would hot patch it or something!

I get that the game developers may most likely have some future changes in mind. I don't get why they would make incremental changes toward that goal since it does not make any sense, which is why its a non sequitur for most observers. Either they did it on purpose, and didn't think the changes would matter to anyone, or didn't care, which means they are being apathetic to the land owners and players which in my opinion is bad, as they seem to be in many cases, which is why its so frustrating for people to deal with.

Or, someone was making those changes for a future release, and somehow that code got incorporated into the production release before it was ready to go, so now you have a partial change that was meant to be in a later release, which would have made more sense for the "users" when they encountered it at that point. I've seen that happen before. In any case, it should have, could have been caught in testing, and if not could be a problem with testing, or they should/would have caught it when they were reviewing the release, prior to the release which means there's a problem in the code review process, if they even have one.

Also, it brings up the process in my mind that for people that are invested heavily in the game in something like a land area, they should be brought into the process somehow before things are changed. They may not be given the opportunity to do anything about it, but at least they could be made aware that things are changing, but those changes shouldn't affect the players or the LAs ability to produce the income it currently was producing.

I guess the scenario where they are given access to a test instance to look at it before, could be a problem because if they don't like it, and think its a negative, and could not provide input or feedback to have it changed to their liking, they could sell it ahead of the change and leave the buyer holding the bag and that would be a problem.

I guess time will tell. In any case, as a former LA owner, I would be pissed if it were happening to me, and I'm not all that happy that its happening to him, or anyone else for that matter. You could say, well lookey what he got when they roll all that out and its all wonderful and makes him a ton of peds, but that still doesn't "fix" the ongoing communication issues.

anyway, sorry I'm bored at work, blah blah bah...

tldr; In my mind, if they planned it, or didn't plan it, its a problem, one that needs to be fixed, so we differ in our opinion there.
 
MA added new things that get in the way but can't clean up the area's that look like crap... Sounds like a normal MA thing to me :p

Instead of adding new foliage they could have removed the stuff that sticks through the floors of about every building on TI. It really makes those buildings look abandoned and not worth even entering to look at. Which is a shame being that shopping mall there is actually a nice mall.

I have been hanging out on TI lately and experienced reviving at that new revival in Hook's Ally I was totally confused as to where I was for a moment. Good thing I had my good guns and armor :D I fought my way out of there for fun but oh man the poor new player that gets stuck there I feel sorry for them. They can't even drive out of there with their new T1 Valkrie without getting shot to crap by the drones :D

It's A Trap!!!
 
Nothing is messed up and there is nothing to fix.
The explanation I think is self evident. These changes are an invaluable clue to what I believe will be some upcoming changes.
It's more like players lack of foresight and their lack of comprehension about changes that seem to be taking place right in front of our eyes. Wake up :)
So you buy some land and DNA, then come the devs and 'wipe out' 2 of your mob spawns without giving you a word and that is fine?

Let's hope they don't plan for any weapon upcoming changes and before implementing them they just take away your gun without giving you a word..

I understand that changes might be on the way, and that devs want to keep it a surprise. That is fine and that is greatly appreciated by all, as it adds to the excitement!

Deathifier is not asking the devs to tell what is the plan behind these changes. He's just saying that they should at least give some pre-advice that they were going to screw him first, instead of making it look like ra_pe!
 
Deathifier is not asking the devs to tell what is the plan behind these changes. He's just saying that they should at least give some pre-advice that they were going to screw him first, instead of making it look like ra_pe!

That reminds me of a song from the late great Frank Zappa :laugh:

 
You probably should have sold TI when you made a planet whose economy and instances revolve around resources only found on your taxed land.

I'd be happy to discuss Arkadia, it's balance, the role 8 Coins has in the planets economy and other aspects of that investment in a different thread.

Note that I have had pretty much no interaction with 8C's economic development since shortly after launch two years ago.
What they've done since then, which includes Treasure Hunting, Instances, and new item series, they have done without my involvement.
This is done specifically avoid the whole "inside information" issue.

So if they have concentrated too many resources on 8 Coins or created an economic environment too heavily dependent on 8 Coins, that is actually a problem from my perspective as it is unhealthy for the planets long-term growth.

As for the threads main topic I will be collating the information I have so far regarding the changes and the plans to address them, and will post an update later today or tomorrow.

- Deathifier
 
if its not been added..

TI removed from new players standard tp list..
its a big pain to fly them over all the new stuff between eudoria and amethera
 
As for the threads main topic I will be collating the information I have so far regarding the changes and the plans to address them, and will post an update later today or tomorrow.

- Deathifier

Be interesting to find out what the situation is.

Bottom line.... MindArk has a vision. NOTHING or NO-ONE is going to prevent them from re-constructing the game based upon that vision.

We see high end items dropping like rain. Mining changes. Loot changes. Skill Nerfs, Now LA changes. They want hundreds of thousands of fun loving ACTIVE new players roaming the country side! This will make them VERY wealthy as getting 10$ from 10000 is better than $1000 from 1. It's just the direction the game is going. It'll balance out down the road. Until then.... we gotta ride the wave and hope we don't fall into the shark infested waters on our way into shore.

Not to mention.... I'm sure MindArk weren't real happy when you emptied the pennies out of your McCormick safe and flew your finances over to Arkadia. I would guess that left a sore spot.

Menace
 
Explanations of changes

After persistent queries in the face of extremely vague reasoning there is now sufficient useful information to share with the community.


Letomie Terminal
After three weeks they found that they had forgotten to move the terminal when they shuffled everything else around.
Once its location was identified I restored the settings and the fertilizer supply although the actual mobs are still missing.

When you find out where it actually is (the other end of the fertilizer station, hanging in the air between piping) it’s actually very obvious however when you’re searching for it around where it should be, or when talking past it with a pile of interface screens open (private chat, inventory, fertilizer stack info, etc.), it actually blends in quite well with its surroundings particularly since the terminals are currently missing their textures.


Service Centers
A query specifically directed at the Service Centers resulted in an explanation finally being provided that indicated they were present temporarily to facilitate the event.

Unfortunately this is not supported by the locations of actual event spawns.

The first – Robots – were present at TI Castle as part of the ‘theft’ of the Egg and also spread to surrounding areas.

The second – Feffox (Colossal and otherwise) – included Broodmothers at TI Castle, Hatchlings at the east border of South Drake’s, and one unknown spawn (they occurred when I was offline) which, if it was at the position indicated, was much closer to the new Service Center in Hook’s Alley however it was still quite accessible from Castle and could easily have been placed further north.

The Service Centers also do not appear to play a core role in the remainder of the event given that MindArk has cancelled all further Egg event related spawns on the island (see link for details).

The rest of the event has thus far had nothing to do with Treasure Island or any other property I own and this is expected to continue until the event reaches its conclusion.

All of these spawns were easily accessible from TI Castle and there was more than enough room around the islands existing infrastructure that could have been used as the event spawns require no special facilities, and no special facilities were added with the additional Service Centers.

As a result the Service Centers were not at all necessary from an area design or event planning perspective and Planet Calypso has thus wasted their resources making changes that did little besides subject the visitors of Treasure Island to a range of problems.


Terrain Changes
The reasons given were pretty vague overall however a general summary is that the developers at Planet Calypso wanted to improve the visual quality of the island – essentially making it prettier.

Unfortunately whilst doing so they have overlooked the impact these changes have on a participant’s experience and in particular the history and properties of some of the areas (such as the Globster hunting area) that they changed.

Following a rather spirited discussion on the topic MindArk and Planet Calypso have decided to make an effort to correct these issues plus all of the other post-VU10 visual issues related to Treasure Island.

I will start a more detailed thread on that topic to allow the community to follow that effort and perhaps learn a little about the islands history along the way.

Bye,
Deathifier
 
wow..... first the egg now this :rolleyes:
 
- "they had forgotten to move the terminal "

- "the actual mobs are still missing."

- "As a result the Service Centers were not at all necessary from an area design or event planning perspective and Planet Calypso has thus wasted their resources making changes that did little besides subject the visitors of Treasure Island to a range of problems."

- "Unfortunately whilst doing so they have overlooked the impact these changes have on a participant’s experience and in particular the history and properties of some of the areas (such as the Globster hunting area) that they changed."

- "MindArk and Planet Calypso have decided to make an effort to correct these issues"

Unfortunately, as some of us suspected (for a long time) -and I am speculating here so I could be wrong - but it looks like MA/PC design/development/change management/release operational issues. It appears changes are being made to prod environment without an effective release review process, or they don't have a process, or don't care to have one, or can't afford one, or something. Now I'm curious if they have a Release Manager? Do they have a release process? If so, what is it, etc. I have so many questions now that I will never know the answers to, oh well, same as it ever was. :laugh:


Anyway, I'm glad they are "communicating" with you and you got it straightened out, I hope they "fix" them post haste!

...I wonder if any other LA owners outside of the usual big ones would get the same results?
 
How to test if an egg if fresh

Wow Deathi when that egg got thrown at TI they obviously did not test it for freshness in a bath of water.
It must have floated and been full of stink gas;)
 
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