SUGGESTION: Universal Auctions across all Planets

im against this idea although the auction system does need to be looked at. resources have diff prices across the planets so combining them all is a really really bad idea imo. accessability however is the area id look at.

eg. when im on ark i wanna be able to bid on caly auctions, if i win then my item should be waiting for me to collect the next time im in caly. IRL you can bid on auctions via phone/proxy/whatever so i dont see why i need to be in caly to bid.

For the time being I think the benefits of this outweigh the disadvantages.

This could potentially help newer and smaller PP economies to prosper because the market audience would be greater. So it would encourage people to list their items on their local planet rather than bring it to calypso and list it there. The chance of that item getting sold would also be higher.

Apart from encouraging trade on newer planets but depending on the details it could potentially also create a more useful space system that makes use of hangars, motherships and privateers. For example by implementing some sort of cargo transport system i.e. you buy something on planet Z from planet A and have someone (cargo system) to transport it over for you.

As the number of planet partners increase there would be a natural pressure for something like this to be implemented because the current system would become more and more cumbersome and would make it more difficult for a newer Planet to thrive.

Yes, remote bidding will strengthen the economy on all planets and would therefore be a good thing.

Separating planetary market history is a more important improvement though, so I would prioritise this.

When space was first launched and we asked for the market history to be separated I believe Kim or possibly Marco posted it might be possible with a simple database filter, who knows if this is the case, but that was the last I heard about it.

Oleg said:

Separating planetary market history is a more important improvement though, so I would prioritise this.

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This.

Once you realize the difference in prices on planets and have it actually on paper you will notice more interest in trade on those worlds.

Right now only a select few engage the game on this particular level. A noob looking to sell goods gets screwed through the system due to ignorance of price differences. With that information spelled out new players will take the trade routes themselves, bringing more money to pilots, and bringing the same goods to the universe that the older traders did.

Prices will normalize on their own due to a more varied market, with a select few high end traders no longer controlling the situation as they do now.

I second Oleg on the separating market history. The current information is mostly useless in smaller markets. The universal information is valuable - but in a smaller market it's very hard to even know what sells, let alone what is a fair markup, without the local data.

I currently sell some ores on Monria at Calypso order prices and I give up some of my markup, along with the risk and the hassle of having to travel back to Calypso. I don't care whether it goes to a local crafter who gets a good price, or a trader who moves it to another market to capture the excess markup. If I can sell on the local market I can stay.

The problem with not being able to do that - it forces me to go to Calypso to sell, and I'll usually get into doing something there and staying a while (I do love the place), so the other market has no action and the PP loses my turnover. Accepting bids globally would make it easier to sell in smaller markets and allow players to stay in those places instead of driving everyone to back to Calypso.

So a big yes on bidding and on local auction data.



Miles

Oleg said:

...Separating planetary market history is a more important improvement though, so I would prioritise this.

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I agree with this 100%

looks like right now the numbers are based on the global data for all planets. If we are going to have seperate planets and seperate economies then logic dictates that the market data should also be seperate.

I like this idea, and I've wanted it back for a long time.

As it is now I've had to ask friends to buy items on a planet for me so I could pick it up at a later time, just so that no one would buy it before I got to the planet.

This will probably also increase the overall economy for the planets, and that is a good thing

MA could also re-instate the transfer fee, pay say 20-50 ped to get it transported directly from another planet to your inventory, saving time for the player and MA will make money from it.

Freddie

Lighterthief said:

IRL you can bid on auctions via phone/proxy/whatever so i dont see why i need to be in caly to bid.

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IRL, sellers in online auctions will ship to your home address, unless it's bulky items like furniture; you don't need to go to the hometown of the seller to pick it up.

SpikeBlack said:

When space was first launched and we asked for the market history to be separated I believe Kim or possibly Marco posted it might be possible with a simple database filter, who knows if this is the case, but that was the last I heard about it.

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I remember that. I think it was said by Kim around 2 years ago. Seems MA were aware of the need to separate histories but since we don't yet see that in game suggests to me it may be part of a bigger more complex system. Hence, the delay in it's implementation.

Miles said:

I second Oleg on the separating market history. The current information is mostly useless in smaller markets. The universal information is valuable - but in a smaller market it's very hard to even know what sells, let alone what is a fair markup, without the local data.

I currently sell some ores on Monria at Calypso order prices and I give up some of my markup, along with the risk and the hassle of having to travel back to Calypso. I don't care whether it goes to a local crafter who gets a good price, or a trader who moves it to another market to capture the excess markup. If I can sell on the local market I can stay.

The problem with not being able to do that - it forces me to go to Calypso to sell, and I'll usually get into doing something there and staying a while (I do love the place), so the other market has no action and the PP loses my turnover. Accepting bids globally would make it easier to sell in smaller markets and allow players to stay in those places instead of driving everyone to back to Calypso.

So a big yes on bidding and on local auction data.



Miles

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Agreed.

Strikes me as odd we are all agreeing with each other

Oleg said:

Separating planetary market history is a more important improvement though, so I would prioritise this.

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yes, yes, omg, yes.

aia said:

IRL, sellers in online auctions will ship to your home address, unless it's bulky items like furniture; you don't need to go to the hometown of the seller to pick it up.

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True BUT when's the last time you got items shipped to your house from Mars?

This is the most important thing why we need this, the stuff you loot can be listed where you are, no need to go to calypso to get rid of your loot, as a seller you dont care who buys your stuff, all you want is to get it sold, good for the traders if they can go around and pick up the stuff they bought remotly.

Crafters would also have an easier time to craft and supply diffrent planets, buy remotly and craft with the materails on your next visit, sell localy or bring the stuff to an other planet.

Shard-Angel said:

Hmm... such vehement opposition - and several posts of it in fact. I have a feeling these "baseless" words echo from those "traders" who simply wish to corner the low-end markets without having to worry about someone from Calypso sniping their bids on some remote planet.


This idea BENEFITS the following:
* Mindark benefits from more trade, (a slightly) happier populace and better PP satisfaction and economies.

* Planet Partners - which have invested MILLIONS, have a chance to survive better - than become ghost towns. More PP's are attracted to EU since previous ones DID NOT FOLD due to no one visiting.

* Thousands of Players who normally would NOT BOTHER buying items due to hassle involved - they would INVEST MORE peds due to the convenience and availability of items across the board.

* MS/Space investers will see MORE space activity due to the ease of use of universal trading = locks a player into OBLIGATION to travel and collect the goods won. (Which would normally be dismissed due to inconvenience.)

* RATs will get MORE chances to rob space travellers - and since MORE LOOT will be travelling across space (Which again, would normally had been dismissed due to inconvenience.)

Those who do NOT benefit:
~20 traders who wish to corner dying planet markets and make a quick ped.



To answer the questions of for all planetary auctions MIXING with LOCAL auctions: Perhaps you are new or have not tried it before, but that NEVER happens. You simply use the pulldown menus for each planet as needed. That is already ingame and working since many many years.

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Miles said:

I second Oleg on the separating market history. The current information is mostly useless in smaller markets. The universal information is valuable - but in a smaller market it's very hard to even know what sells, let alone what is a fair markup, without the local data.

I currently sell some ores on Monria at Calypso order prices and I give up some of my markup, along with the risk and the hassle of having to travel back to Calypso. I don't care whether it goes to a local crafter who gets a good price, or a trader who moves it to another market to capture the excess markup. If I can sell on the local market I can stay.

The problem with not being able to do that - it forces me to go to Calypso to sell, and I'll usually get into doing something there and staying a while (I do love the place), so the other market has no action and the PP loses my turnover. Accepting bids globally would make it easier to sell in smaller markets and allow players to stay in those places instead of driving everyone to back to Calypso.

So a big yes on bidding and on local auction data.



Miles

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I think auction changes would be great, alot of good points here as to why.

Sadly I think the server structure would need some major, and costly changes to accommodate this and planet markup separation. They already need an upgrade (after recently completing one) for the existing auction delays.

I am not sure its in our best interests to chance a big problem if the auction system broke to an MA upgrade on a universal level.

Rhayven said:

If I drop the m/u lower to be more like Calypso then a trader will purchase it and just list it back up where it belongs. I will not stab myself in the back and line someone else's pockets

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So as result we have MU of Copper 142%, MU of Iron 125% and so on. I seen MU of Iolite about 160%. Great.
But after that all around will NOT buy my Enhancers or Weapons and Amps for Caly MU X 2. Why? This is very strange! But you will sell to me Dianthus for 250% and then want recieve Enhacers back for Calypso prices or less? So i NEVER buy any resource from these very 'clever' miners
Therefore my IMO - must be separate auctions without possibility of view auctions of other planets and their history
Great for traders and separate economics. As a result - less lags. More space travels.

Gewitter,

I'm not really following your logic.

Like you I am a bit frustrated at some of the pricing of Arkadian resources as I can't necessarily raise prices of my guns and other gear to match the increased costs if i want to sell. But that's an issue for me to sort out. Do I pay those prices or learn how to mine, or scale back production of some items, or go ahead and test the market for increased weapon prices. That's my challenge as someone running a business.

But in any case I don't really see how further restricting interplanetary auction - "without possibility of view auctions of other planets and their history" - helps.

BTW I think you could probably increase enhancer costs and still do ok. I have a few in my shops, and despite increased prices owing to costs to produce, I have a steady turnover. I just think the local supply is low so people are willing to pay more for the convenience of not traveling back to caly to buy. Now the proposed change would not affect that as people would still need to travel to the planet of purchase to pick up the goods.

Oleg said:

Separating planetary market history is a more important improvement though, so I would prioritise this.

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Once again: This

mastermesh said:

True BUT when's the last time you got items shipped to your house from Mars?

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I could tell you but then I would have to drag into pvp4 and let you loot me.... I r noob, but alien!!

KijkkiJikki, you do not understand. Living on Ark without calypso is impossible for me (and I wish live without Caly). If we could combine the AH, as we see suggestions here, it would lead to automatic removal of all cheap resources on Arkadia, because this is convenient for many players living on Calypso. And in the case of separation - it will lead to the minimal price stabilization (including product prices, because the customer in Shop or AH will not see the price history of Calypso). In this case, if resources will be overpriced - I 'll buy it. But in this case I want to sell my crafted items for more higher prices. If not seeing prices of Calypso - many players will buy. And then the market will stabilized, although any intervention in the auction may lead to massive speculation. Therefore, all the same it would be better not to touch anything .

Added:
Calypso - is a speculators Planet, and if you do not know it, then hasten to assure you - it's true. (A simple example, a Niko Lamps, which I made on Ark and sell on Caly in my new Shop (This Shop is currently operated by my wife, if you wish to know who is current owner), someone (i know who) bought these lamps and trying to resell it for higher prices). Its usual for Caly, i know For player: Uncomfortable have alts everywhere, it is a strong separation of budgets and a lot of fuss. Therefore, using a single character : Place orders on Arkadia (Cyrene, Rock, etc...). Wait for them to fill (at prices lower than calypso). Buy everything cheaper on Arkadia and resell on Calypso. Profit! For reselling you may use only one character, it may one once a week fly with EFA for just 14 +7 = 21 ped (including TP fee). Combining auctions lead to the fact that Arkadia (and other planets) will be the same speculators planet as Calypso. You do not need to spend money for a Space flight every day, if you see on Ark something valuable. You just need to buy it. Combining is convenient only to traders and speculators. I am strongly against this. Speculators must suffer and pay for all!

mastermesh said:

True BUT when's the last time you got items shipped to your house from Mars?

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I stopped ordering from Mars. The last time I ordered anything from Mars, the UPS guy got killed and looted by pirates in space. I never did get my package. I wish I could see the look on the pirate's face when he opened it though

Gewitter said:

KijkkiJikki, you do not understand. [/B]

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Thanks for clarifying what you meant.

Personally I think resellers are going to find a way to make money and shop from all planets, regardless of how things are set up.

Am very much opposed to preventing players from seeing what is on auction on other planets. Let people have information and make informed decisions. And if I have to compete against other crafters on other planets I don't mind. In fact I want more information in the form of separate market history data. Then I can decide whether its worth crafting a batch of gear to sell on another planet. Or I can work out if its worthwhile trying to source ingredients from another planet taking into account risk and transport cost. I'd like to see shop inventory universally browsable so people know where the cheapest gun x is.

The suggestion here in the OP is not to combine auction houses but simply to allow us to place bids on other planets without going there. In reality there are already ways of doing this. I could ask someone in my soc to bid on my behalf but that either requires that they commit their funds or that I provide peds to them in advance. A reseller could bankroll employees to bid on other planets. And of course there is the use of alts for those that don't have a problem with breaking the TOS.

So what exactly are we losing by including an in-game mechanism for this functionality? If a reseller wants to cherry pick auctions well they can do that now and would be able to under any system I can think of.

And what do we gain? More effective use of our time. Increased economic activity. And opening auctions to more bidding would appear to be more likely to establish a true market value, benefiting sellers.

KijkkiJikki said:

And of course there is the use of alts for those that don't have a problem with breaking the TOS.

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This is exactly why the idea is great. People are already exploiting to do similar type of stuff. Open it up to the non-exploiters so that it's more 'fair' and not just something the mafia smugglers/brothers-sisters-aunts-uncles-siblings alt parties are involved in. Auto Tool didn't use to exist until the massive amount of exploiters using third party tools to do the same thing was revealed to Mindark, and they finally understood that they should probably make things a bit more 'fair' to the average participant. This is very similar in that regard.

mastermesh said:

and not just something the mafia smugglers/brothers-sisters-aunts-uncles-siblings alt parties are involved in

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I do not understand what you mean, if a family has two people, they have every right to play the game at the same time from different PC, or not? A we can cooperate too, without breaking a ToS. You can play with your son / father / wife and so on. And if you think that this is unfair you must know, avatars can be created also for legal entities and for all them employees, what gives unlimited possibilities of cooperation.

KijkkiJikki said:

So what exactly are we losing by including an in-game mechanism for this functionality? If a reseller wants to cherry pick auctions well they can do that now and would be able to under any system I can think of.

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Well, if a reseller could bankroll people, or a person in a soc could ask others to do it, then what we are losing by allowing a person to bid on their own is part of the social, multiplayer experience. In essence we have just made this game more single player.

This point is in addition to other points I have made previously.

Instead of undermining aspects of the game, its easy enough to ban alt accounts that are used for trading purposes. Track player history. If a person owns two accounts or more, are the accounts active? Are they involved primarily in auction lurking? Easy enough to see. Check their activities. If they are, inform the player they have 30 days from the date of notice to remove all items from the account, then after those 30 days pass delete the account.

The TOS break seems to occur when people use multi accounts to affect the economy. So enforce it already!

Gewitter said:

avatars can be created also for legal entities and for all them employees, what gives unlimited possibilities of cooperation.

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As far as I know, it's one avatar/legal entity.

As for family; sure there is a grey zone, but I guess it's possible to spot out a) genuine independent players and b) trader mules (used to increase slots in auction etc).

aia said:

As far as I know, it's one avatar/legal entity.

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One for general manager, one for each employee personal. It's not against ToS.

aia said:

As for family; sure there is a grey zone, but I guess it's possible to spot out a) genuine independent players and b) trader mules (used to increase slots in auction etc).

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I have 250+ slots in our Ark Shop and 30 (or so, I do not remember) slots on auc for me (use 3-10 usualy for trading, because shops is better for me), and 110 slots for my wife in our Calypso Shop, and similar quantity of AH slots for my wife. I'm hunter and crafter (Although I was a miner before). She is a bit miner and trader. We are thinking about expanding our Shops. How much do you think we need auction slots? We hate auction tax

But almost all of the resources to crafting I buy at auction, so im against merge!

I don't know what confuses me more - the fact that we don't already have this, or the fact that anyone actually opposes it.

RobBuona said:

I don't know what confuses me more - the fact that we don't already have this, or the fact that anyone actually opposes it.

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Well, some of us actually play the game for a social experience, not as some sort of glorified spreadsheet where we meticulously track figures in an effort to eke out a tiny profit.

To those of us that play this way, the concept of separation of planets is an essential part of the experience. While we respect your need to make a profit, we resent you pushing your profits ahead of our enjoyment of the game itself.

Get a better job. Dont destroy the atmosphere here so that you can continue to count pennies.

Magyar_Republic said:

Well, some of us actually play the game for a social experience, not as some sort of glorified spreadsheet where we meticulously track figures in an effort to eke out a tiny profit.

To those of us that play this way, the concept of separation of planets is an essential part of the experience. While we respect your need to make a profit, we resnt you pushing your profits ahead of our enjoyment of the game itself.

Get a better job. Dont destroy the atmosphere here so that you can continue to count pennies.

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I'm not even going to respond to these blatantly presumptuous accusations. Instead I will direct your attention to post #27 in this thread.

And by the way, I've been looking for a better job for months. If you have some tips for me, I'd love a pm with that.

Gewitter said:

We are thinking about expanding our Shops. How much do you think we need auction slots? We hate auction tax

But almost all of the resources to crafting I buy at auction, so im against merge!

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What about a merge that would help you out as a shop owner by throwing a shop directory in the auction, giving you free advertising for your shop? Maybe make it so that the pay goes to you through auction and the items go in to a 'limbo' state similar to how auction items are until the avatar who purchased from shop via auction comes by your shop to pick up the stuff, similar to the way they have to visit auctioneer on planet where auction was located to pick up their auction winnings?