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Insta withdrawal solution

whiteknut said:

There is no difference (MA has to pay out 5mil (the numbers are made up, but show what i mean, there is no difference if they delay 2months)
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I see it more like this:

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All things being equal, without a delay they have thinner balance most of the time and easily fall into red.

Now throw in a couple of important factors:

1. People often cancel their withdrawals, because the urgent RL need for the money has passed (2 months is a long time), or they need the money in game, or they calmed down and decided not to rage-quit :). With instant WD all these options are lost.
2. Instant WD + an especially fucked up VU (read: 2-3 times a year) = Instant disaster!
 
Sometimes, after a disaster, comes lot of good things^^
 
They can't give instant withdraws it is a real cash economy....
 
Well not that i have experience in withdrawing ped from game as i never have done yet, but i am willing to come out and admit this.

But from my perspective yes they might has liquidity issues but as people have already stated in this thread they have never turned a withdrawal down. I think the 50 days 3 months etc is actually good company practise as they are able to effectively manage the deposits with withdrawals.

If it was instant or 1 week and say i dont know we had some situation where maybe a well known player spilled all ma's dirty secrets or servers died for like 2 weeks everyone hit withdrawal button, then ma came out and said we need to increase withdrawel to say like 100days which would increase more panic. You all seen what happens when we get bank runs same thing, peoples first reaction is to panic worlds ending etc etc.

This time limit allows them not only to weed out fraudsters scammers thiefs etc but it gives them a buffer, provides the investors in game with a bit of confidence that the company has this buffer and their investments are partially safe from unnatural things that might pop up.

Some investments in the uk can take up to 6 months even longer to get money out for a whole host of reasons and as most people who are withdrawing are actually taking out some form of their investment whether it be skills equipment deeds etc i dont see much difference.

But anyway i expect the trolls to come out or some form of sarcasm but investments are not banks where they always have liquid money to hand out you need someone else to take up what your leaving.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
If MA at any point have all the cash needed I would be outraged. Due to taxation laws in Sweden you can't save money for more than three years using a fund. After that, or if you keep it in the regular bank account, you have to pay taxes on it.

Didn't I tell you in another thread I recently spent 100.000$ on a house because of this? The money needs to be tied up.
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Nope , You didnt mentioned that :) What's the problemt with sending them to subsidiary company and back once every 3 months ?

Few Scars said:
Most companies can do transfers within 24-48hrs. For some reason I suspect MA doesn't have much fluidity in its capital base and as such, has to allocate funds to withdrawal requests. If it was a big company and someone put a request for $10000 it should transfer immediately. The fact it takes 3 months suggests its a big issue for MA.
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No need to suspect anything. Just look at last annual report. There is special column there showing how much of withdrawals is waiting to commit. At moment of publishing it it was 2x their fluid money on account.

Ofc in such company accout can;t be empty there are depos and withdrawals going on everyday. Bet their balance to keep fluidity in withdrawals shall be equal to average withdrawals amount - they have historical data for sure.

That's basic bussines operation to balance check such everyday.
 
slick27 said:
Well not that i have experience in withdrawing ped from game as i never have done yet, but i am willing to come out and admit this.

But from my perspective yes they might has liquidity issues but as people have already stated in this thread they have never turned a withdrawal down. I think the 50 days 3 months etc is actually good company practise as they are able to effectively manage the deposits with withdrawals.

If it was instant or 1 week and say i dont know we had some situation where maybe a well known player spilled all ma's dirty secrets or servers died for like 2 weeks everyone hit withdrawal button, then ma came out and said we need to increase withdrawel to say like 100days which would increase more panic. You all seen what happens when we get bank runs same thing, peoples first reaction is to panic worlds ending etc etc.

This time limit allows them not only to weed out fraudsters scammers thiefs etc but it gives them a buffer, provides the investors in game with a bit of confidence that the company has this buffer and their investments are partially safe from unnatural things that might pop up.

Some investments in the uk can take up to 6 months even longer to get money out for a whole host of reasons and as most people who are withdrawing are actually taking out some form of their investment whether it be skills equipment deeds etc i dont see much difference.

But anyway i expect the trolls to come out or some form of sarcasm but investments are not banks where they always have liquid money to hand out you need someone else to take up what your leaving.
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Good point...try withdraw some 1st then u understand why ppl are so concerned about it.

Can you imagine how much money would be pumped through EU economy if not that 3 months delay ? It's not giving any confidence in company...it has exact oposite efect.

As for your idea about 1 week would might end in mass withdrawals....same can hapen with 3 months wait time, all can hit withdrawal button same day exactly like in 1 weeks option u mentioned. That's changes nothing....well except stress for withdrawer who normaly would know that something bad hapened if he didn;t got his money after 1 week. Now he has to wait 3 months.
 
shoti said:
Nope , You didnt mentioned that :) What's the problemt with sending them to subsidiary company and back once every 3 months ?
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First of all, I might be missing something since I'm running a company only a fraction of MA's size. But from my understanding, the problem with MA's business model is that the customer only buys the right to use virtual currency. This means that any money deposited is considered to belong to MA despite the amount of money inside the game. When it's time for a new book year, MA gets taxed for any profits. Profits would include the deposited money.

Now, at this point if the money was left on the account, they would lose roughly 20% of it, but there are a couple of loopholes. One is buying shit, which I did in order to sell off when I need the money, and then there is the possibility to put the money in a certain type of placements, but that is only allowed for a limited time.

There is probably loopholes I do not know of, all I know is that at the end of the year it is good to keep the numbers as close to red as possible, unless you are intending to make a payout to shareholders. This is, what I believe MA is doing.
 
shoti said:
Good point...try withdraw some 1st then u understand why ppl are so concerned about it.

Can you imagine how much money would be pumped through EU economy if not that 3 months delay ? It's not giving any confidence in company...it has exact oposite efect.

As for your idea about 1 week would might end in mass withdrawals....same can hapen with 3 months wait time, all can hit withdrawal button same day exactly like in 1 weeks option u mentioned. That's changes nothing....well except stress for withdrawer who normaly would know that something bad hapened if he didn;t got his money after 1 week. Now he has to wait 3 months.
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look i really dont want to go in a tit for tat you have your view i have mine.

But you say how much money would be pumped through eu if it was 1 day, well this is a company they have staff to pay bills etc etc. The money coming in and out would be so up and down that they might not be able to pay bills 1 month etc etc. Im self employed in rl and you say the 3 month wouldn't make much difference well it does, it gives you time to either drum up more work or find a bank loan to get you through bad times.

So good luck all going to decay somewhere in eu
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
First of all, I might be missing something since I'm running a company only a fraction of MA's size. But from my understanding, the problem with MA's business model is that the customer only buys the right to use virtual currency. This means that any money deposited is considered to belong to MA despite the amount of money inside the game. When it's time for a new book year, MA gets taxed for any profits. Profits would include the deposited money.

Now, at this point if the money was left on the account, they would lose roughly 20% of it, but there are a couple of loopholes. One is buying shit, which I did in order to sell off when I need the money, and then there is the possibility to put the money in a certain type of placements, but that is only allowed for a limited time.

There is probably loopholes I do not know of, all I know is that at the end of the year it is good to keep the numbers as close to red as possible, unless you are intending to make a payout to shareholders. This is, what I believe MA is doing.
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NOt an issue in MA case as this is non-profiting company for years already. They don;t have buy anything, invest in anything. Pure withdrawals + salaries + electricity bills make them on red.

Basicaly this is problem here, because profiting company would stack some of those profits on fluidity purposes or even not allow siyuation like now to ever happen.

In sound busines like MA deposited money wait on withdrawal request in amount equal to whole TT ingame. Sound & safe. Company may take it's profit when some part of that amount is deteriorated/decayed/consumed etc by ingames system and can;t be requested withdraw. Just MA spend that money already, thats problem.

It's like diference between bank who lend only deposited money and bank wchich is creating money for credits on some partial reserve basis.

Indeed any money deposited to MA belongs to MA. We get only "chips" which we have to wait 3 months to change back to USD ( part of our agreement with MA, but based on trust rather than EULA etc. ).
 
slick27 said:
look i really dont want to go in a tit for tat you have your view i have mine.

But you say how much money would be pumped through eu if it was 1 day, well this is a company they have staff to pay bills etc etc. The money coming in and out would be so up and down that they might not be able to pay bills 1 month etc etc. Im self employed in rl and you say the 3 month wouldn't make much difference well it does, it gives you time to either drum up more work or find a bank loan to get you through bad times.

So good luck all going to decay somewhere in eu
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As for that difference 1 week vs 3 months....U said 3 months give some kind of "buffer".

Well it';s not. In booth options all hiting same day withdraw button will get their money at same day.

You could be rightif ma would withdraw "up to 3 months" when average waiting time is 1 week...in that case such buffer may be aplied.
 
This is not a money in the bank issue, nor is it directly for a fraud concern.

It is a chargeback and business credit issue, naturally MA will be thinking of itself.


The economy is too fragile to allow even 1% of all transactions become chargebacks.....and we would get at least that much. The online gambling industry has 2% chargeback rate, which equals many many millions of dollars.

Not much you think?

Here is some support (chargeback.com):

"The first company we’ll visit is an INTERNATIONAL subscription-based GAMING website pushing monthly subscriptions to various countries around the world. The sales team reached out in a support forum because they were catching flak from their payment processors. Why? Their chargeback rate periodically fluctuated as high as 2%.

Basically, the company was warned (repeatedly) that if it didn’t get those rates under control, it would be facing penalty fees and higher fees per chargeback occurrence. You can probably guess what happened from there.

While the company tried its best, and did manage to keep their rates at a “safe” .8% for several months,instances of credit card fraud spiked their chargebacks multiple times per year. Unfortunately, because they were processing so many payments per month (in excess of 10,000), they were pretty much stuck with the high payments because no other processor would take them on—that’s over 200 chargebacks per month!"

This would be several thousands of dollars out of the economy monthly (millions over the decade), and we risk MA going bankrupt, and or fees to be recouped in our returns ingame.

I am critical of many things MA, but many things they are truly very ingenious with as well.

This is one of them, as a business it eliminates charge-backs, lowers overall costs (which is good for us, as well as critical to the success of the game), and maintains a good credit rating so they can survive in hard times. Without this policy I would guess we would not be here, as they did need a couple rescues over the last decade.

Many big name titles with many more players and much higher revenues faded away in those 10 years with constant losses that affected credit ratings, necessitated over-borrowing at damaging rates, and created increasing expenses (more employees to comply and more) to the point they no longer exist, due to reduced or negative profitability.


pretty good discussion about the impact on businesses credit ability and chargebacks


They do have valid reasons that ultimately are in our best interests.... but mostly theirs. ;)
 
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why do ppl continue to believe that the withdraw time is related to security checks ?

to me its pretty simple, they are understaffed, and deal with it on the "whenever we remember" basis

When we challenge MA, and we do regularly, the response is some crap designed to appease us. Something about security sounds pretty believable doesn't it?

Do you really think MA wait x business days to deal with cc fraud or the like? that's rubbish, its dealt with swiftly and we can all read the threads where its happened.

So imho withdraw time has nothing to do with security, more to do with understaffed/overworked team and when push comes to shove paying out cash is a lower priority than working to bring cash in

all imho ofc
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
If MA at any point have all the cash needed I would be outraged. Due to taxation laws in Sweden you can't save money for more than three years using a fund. After that, or if you keep it in the regular bank account, you have to pay taxes on it.

Didn't I tell you in another thread I recently spent 100.000$ on a house because of this? The money needs to be tied up.
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how does the tax man tell that one $10k is in the bank for 3.1 years, while another $10k is in the bank for 2.9 years? clue - they cant as money, especially electronic balances in the bank, are fungible. unless a company had an annual turnover of 1/3 pr less of their cash position, they would be able to say all the money has been out of the account and back in at some point in three years. a company making a loss certainly wouldn't have a problem with this.
 
aridash said:
how does the tax man tell that one $10k is in the bank for 3.1 years, while another $10k is in the bank for 2.9 years? clue - they cant as money, especially electronic balances in the bank, are fungible. unless a company had an annual turnover of 1/3 pr less of their cash position, they would be able to say all the money has been out of the account and back in at some point in three years. a company making a loss certainly wouldn't have a problem with this.
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They look at the total amount, simple as that. The three year rule applies to something I'm not sure of what it is called in English. Wild guess: "Periodical fond". Certain rules apply for deposits to such, which is why I found it better to "hide" money in estates, materials and other stuff.
 
The time, which I've stated many times, is a charge back (which can be used as a form of fraud) protection. You only need to stop and think about the players in this forum to see how frequent charge backs would be and how damaging that is.

Seriously people.. stop and think.
 
Even if MA would have to deal with 2% chargeback...so what ????

Making withdrawal max 2 days wait time would make EU economy blossom with depos MA could only dream now ! So screw that 2 % if it can be 500% more depos and turnover !
 
shoti said:
Even if MA would have to deal with 2% chargeback...so what ????

Making withdrawal max 2 days wait time would make EU economy blossom with depos MA could only dream now ! So screw that 2 % if it can be 500% more depos and turnover !
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I dont recall seeing any recent numbers on turnover, but we had cycled somewhere near 200 million USD in 2008 I think?

That would be 4 million dollars....or 40 million ped we would not get back... per year at 2%.

This likely would, and this problem has for much larger companies, result in MA having to close shop...and then we all lose EVERYTHING.

See the post I made above, the study specifically sampled a gaming company that ultimately failed for the sole reason of chargebacks.......this was around the time MA started 2005 finalizing payment systems, and is likely a reason they were compelled to come up with the policy.
 
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i know of some business that got charge back over a month even they got paid for that transaction they took it out out of the money of the next month depo from the credit card money so the company is out of that money no way to get it back

you just have to think some run a credit card scam make 100 account even if it just 100 dollars if they can get the money right away how there going to get back there money if the already paid it out

there no choice there it has to be over 1 month wait to 2 month
 
So... just say that withdrawals within 90 days of fresh deposits have to wait... if you haven't deposited anything in the last 90 days you can get your withdrawal in, say, a week.

I agree with Shoti, faster withdrawals would result in more withdrawals but also a LOT more deposits.

Scammers can still withdraw money. I've been scammed by someone, they withdrew the money yet MA never stopped the transaction in the 60 or 90 days it took to withdraw the funds. So, I doubt they check how the person got the peds.

The 90 day wait policy is one of the first issues I'd have changed if I had a say in how MA does business.
 
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Neil Stockton said:
So... just say that withdrawals within 90 days of fresh deposits have to wait... if you haven't deposited anything in the last 90 days you can get your withdrawal in, say, a week.

I agree with Shoti, faster withdrawals would result in more withdrawals but also a LOT more deposits.

Scammers can still withdraw money. I've been scammed by someone, they withdrew the money yet MA never stopped the transaction in the 60 or 90 days it took to withdraw the funds. So, I doubt they check how the person got the peds.

The 90 day wait policy is one of the first issues I'd have changed if I had a say in how MA does business.
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You got scammed or you got "all trades are final" ´ed? If all trades are final´ed then nothing MA can do.
 
shoti said:
Even if MA would have to deal with 2% chargeback...so what ????

Making withdrawal max 2 days wait time would make EU economy blossom with depos MA could only dream now ! So screw that 2 % if it can be 500% more depos and turnover !
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If it would be 2days then it wouldnt be 2% but 50%, or do you know any better way to turn hundreds of stolen credit cards into fast money without ever leaving your computer?
 
forgo said:
I dont recall seeing any recent numbers on turnover, but we had cycled somewhere near 200 million USD in 2008 I think?

That would be 4 million dollars....or 40 million ped we would not get back... per year at 2%.

This likely would, and this problem has for much larger companies, result in MA having to close shop...and then we all lose EVERYTHING.

See the post I made above, the study specifically sampled a gaming company that ultimately failed for the sole reason of chargebacks.......this was around the time MA started 2005 finalizing payment systems, and is likely a reason they were compelled to come up with the policy.
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lol....your argument remind me my old service workshop director. He run terryfied some day to my office and said we can't sell 100 % more pump becourse we have already 1% service complaints and thats 100 pcs / year to handle by 2 ppl only. Just asked him if he is just so tired or lost his mind :) . He was convinced not increseing sale due to service performandce was good idea :). SOme ppl just think like that :)

So when you say "OMG that 4 M $ out of 200 M $ turnover OMG OMG OMG... " i can say again " So what ? "

be it even 8 M $ or even 16 M $ if that mean 400 M$ turnover or 800 M$ turnover.....%'s remain same !
 
whiteknut said:
If it would be 2days then it wouldnt be 2% but 50%, or do you know any better way to turn hundreds of stolen credit cards into fast money without ever leaving your computer?
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Yup..it's called account validation. It last 2-3 weeks and you doing it once. Dunno if MA is doing that still but years ago i had to send ID with photo and some bills and some signed form to alow MA see that CC was mine indeed. Hard to steal all 3 at once with CC and force owner to sign form.
 
shoti said:
Yup..it's called account validation. It last 2-3 weeks and you doing it once. Dunno if MA is doing that still but years ago i had to send ID with photo and some bills and some signed form to alow MA see that CC was mine indeed. Hard to steal all 3 at once with CC and force owner to sign form.
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I went through that process also took me 2 days.
And not all accounts go though that process (dunno what criteria). And you can depo with paypal also these days... so actually nothing extra needed just credit card data and thats it.

BTW: Why do you attack official story behind 50days and not finding evidence to support your theory? You sure love concipiracy theories (starting with the MA buying back CLDs)

But wait... You were saying MA is buying back CLDs and now claiming they are short of money?
MA CEO on friday night (your theory) : Hmm what to do when i have very little money... i know lets buy some CLDs from players so they can withdraw the peds and i have even less money.

I have a concipiracy theory that you want ppl to start panicking and selling out their stuff (which will make the prices go down) so you can buy em all up with the money you wanted to make with that CLD "trimmed Chat log" thread.
 
@whiteknut

So such validation proces is more than enugh and if it is possible to within 2 days even better. As we can MA have lot of possibilities to prevent CC frauds, much beter than holding withdrawals for 90 days. It's simply lack of good will or financila inability to do so. There is no other option.

As for your BTW....go do your homework and read my posts there again, as seems you still didn;t catch basic concept behind that.
 
shoti said:
@whiteknut

So such validation proces is more than enugh and if it is possible to within 2 days even better. As we can MA have lot of possibilities to prevent CC frauds, much beter than holding withdrawals for 90 days. It's simply lack of good will or financila inability to do so. There is no other option.

As for your BTW....go do your homework and read my posts there again, as seems you still didn;t catch basic concept behind that.
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You cant possibly expect me to read all those conspiracy theory posts? I stick to statements made by MA (and yes real statements not copy paste trimmed edits of statements)
 
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