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Question: Proper bankroll amount?

JohnCapital

JohnCapital

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John Teacher Capital
I'm curious to hear people's opinion about this.

I often hear numbers thrown around, such as 50k ped minimum, etc. however, that ASSumes a lot. Perhaps they are beginners, in which case that can be WAY too much. Or perhaps they are professional crafters running shops on multiple planets. Only 50k? Hardly.

Instead, I try to picture the bankroll as having a direct connection to the players activity level.

In that case, I try to advocate a bankroll that can cover at least 4 weeks of play. Obviously more is better.

What are your thoughts in terms of good bankroll size and management? :confused:


EDIT: Ooh, and happy Valentine's Day all.
 
4 times average TT loss per month.
 
for hunting i've always felt proper bankroll is 7x whatever you typically cycle in a day for a good grind.

casual players can get by with much less of course.
 
Put it this way
If you gonna pick Mellons you aint gonna carry a small bucket to harvest them.
Got to suit your roll to your game, no set number
 
I always tell the people I mentor that they should have enough, but not too much, it should be just right :D

PS. I have 1 mentor point :laugh:
 
Mac said:
I always tell the people I mentor that they should have enough, but not too much, it should be just right :D

PS. I have 1 mentor point :laugh:
Click to expand...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

U should run for the prez thou, that kind of slogans can work miracles there!
 
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Fifth said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

U should run for the prez thou, that kind of slogans can work miracles there!
Click to expand...

I must be watching to much politics crap lately :laugh:
 
Enough to do 10 runs even if you come back with 0% return.
 
Dr. Evil says

Too small a bankroll is insanely frustrating... too big a bankroll tends to lead to waste and carelessness (therefore big losses).
Like others have said, it depends very much on your preferred activity, but the whether you have good unlimited gear also has a big impact -- repairs require smaller bankroll than replacing broken limited items. One could argue the bankroll is in the value of your UL items.
 
A few years back i found out for me a proper bankroll is minimum the cost of 2k looting events. This allows to cycle for a while and work with markup. So calculate cost to kill a mob/ mining drop etc and try it out. This is not the ultimate truth, but works for me personally.
 
It's an irrelevant question unless you also ask "What is bankroll?"

Most people seem to think it's the amount of PED on your card. I think that is meaningless.
 
Oleg said:
It's an irrelevant question unless you also ask "What is bankroll?"

Most people seem to think it's the amount of PED on your card. I think that is meaningless.
Click to expand...

I think my post is more helpful than Olegs.
 
If I were to be honest, I would say that having a bankroll in this game is a losing proposition.

I tend to be within a few hundred ped of dead stop at any given time. Anything over 1k finds a use somehow, lately deeds/crafting stockpiles. I deposit 1-2k ped at a time, if I deposit...... so the 50k bankroll idea scares me. :)


If I have PED on the card, then I am not playing hard enough imo.

Similar to if I have space on auction, I need to fill it as a crafter always, and get some of these bps paid off/working for me...which also helps keep my ped balance low in the process. :)
 
I think 5$ mentioned in his log that he does a run of minimum 500 times the cost to kill the mob he hunts. I think thats a very very good starting point. Since some runs could be very bad and u can get back only 50% of tt spent, i think your bankroll should be enough to make at least 10 such runs for a chance to even out ur loot. So formula would be - (cost to kill mob x 500) x 10
A typical mob of lets say 900 hp would cost u roughly 3 ped to kill. So each run of 1500ped and 10 such runs would be 15k ped as ur bankroll.
That ofcourse is in the perfect world in my view.
I am currently grinding reavers for the mission, my bankroll is ~10k only. Cost kill the mob is ~7 ped. So i would need to make my run at least 4k ped ammo right? I do 2k ped ammo runs, but i do at least 2 in a row on a working day (~4h) and quite a few more than that on my days off. So my bankroll should be 40k ped, but thats too much on calypso. On a break even hunt i get roughly 1k ped shrapnel back, 700 ped ammo and around 700 ped in stackables and items. Since i use shrapnel my self, ammo goes to tt and only stackables is one type of oil and some pint cans (paint cans go to tt), i think my perfect bankroll would be 20-25k ped. Which is same 10 runs.

Sorry for the flood of thoughts but i think i do have some reasoning behind it all :)

Cheers
Soko
 
Oleg said:
It's an irrelevant question unless you also ask "What is bankroll?"

Most people seem to think it's the amount of PED on your card. I think that is meaningless.
Click to expand...


Oh i think i can explain this

Bankroll in a nutshell - all ur stackable loot and items from ur hunts that is in storage + auction + balance on ur ped card.

U must be able to stack enough to sell effectively but if u use my formula in above mentioned post then it shall not be a problem. Hovewer if u hunt on other planets than caly it may differ.
 
I feel safe when my bankroll is high enough to kill 5000 of one special mob or to drop 5000 bombs
 
duncis said:
Oh i think i can explain this

Bankroll in a nutshell - all ur stackable loot and items from ur hunts that is in storage + auction + balance on ur ped card.

U must be able to stack enough to sell effectively but if u use my formula in above mentioned post then it shall not be a problem. Hovewer if u hunt on other planets than caly it may differ.
Click to expand...

So let's say you've decided your bankroll should be 10k PED as you said in the previous post.

Now let's say you start with exactly 10k PED, including all the stuff in storage etc.

You go for one hunt, and it's a poor one, you find yourself 500 PED down. Now you have 9500 PED, again including all the stuff in storage etc.

What happens now? Do you stop?

If you stop then there was no point in having your so-called "bankroll" because you haven't used it.

If you don't stop then you must have decided that you don't need 10k PED bankroll any more, and you're perfectly happy with 9500 PED.

So what does it mean? Anything?
 
Oleg said:
So let's say you've decided your bankroll should be 10k PED as you said in the previous post.

Now let's say you start with exactly 10k PED, including all the stuff in storage etc.

You go for one hunt, and it's a poor one, you find yourself 500 PED down. Now you have 9500 PED, again including all the stuff in storage etc.

What happens now? Do you stop?

If you stop then there was no point in having your so-called "bankroll" because you haven't used it.

If you don't stop then you must have decided that you don't need 10k PED bankroll any more, and you're perfectly happy with 9500 PED.

So what does it mean? Anything?
Click to expand...


Good point! Now i understand what you mean with "bankroll".
Ofcourse you dont stop, but point taken its no longer your bankroll at this point.
Is there any better way to word this? Otherwise if we agree that bankroll is no more relevant then the thread is irrelevant too. :(
 
duncis said:
Good point! Now i understand what you mean with "bankroll".
Ofcourse you dont stop, but point taken its no longer your bankroll at this point.
Is there any better way to word this? Otherwise if we agree that bankroll is no more relevant then the thread is irrelevant too. :(
Click to expand...

I think it boils down to one simple piece of advice: Don't spend what you can't afford.

I've always thought that people assigning numbers to what they call "required bankroll", or similar, is totally arbitrary.
 
Oleg said:
So let's say you've decided your bankroll should be 10k PED as you said in the previous post.

Now let's say you start with exactly 10k PED, including all the stuff in storage etc.

You go for one hunt, and it's a poor one, you find yourself 500 PED down. Now you have 9500 PED, again including all the stuff in storage etc.

What happens now? Do you stop?

If you stop then there was no point in having your so-called "bankroll" because you haven't used it.

If you don't stop then you must have decided that you don't need 10k PED bankroll any more, and you're perfectly happy with 9500 PED.

So what does it mean? Anything?
Click to expand...
you go back out till you have zero

then you take a morgage on the house and depo for 100k then you start over
 
I think you need a good 20K to cover auction losses.
A good 40K for deeds to cover some of hunting costs.
Further 50K to cover unlimited items, that crash in value.
10K+ for boxes
Probably 2K in warm up ammo before the server realises you're actually shooting.
Credit Card at the ready for when the server deposit targets are not reached.

Or sod all that.... you don't need any of it.

What you need is a time machine. When you could shoot all month on $100, having a great laugh with loads of friends, and not really even think about returns.

I so hope this new pet game brings back the "fun" and joy of the good old days, without feeling like you have second mortgage.

Rick
 
I feel comfortable when i have enough peds to continue hunting without the need to do a break, waiting for my stuff to sell in auction. My "bankroll" is proper when i have enough stuff in auction that the amount i put in each day and sell each day are close to be even. Over time some deposits are needed to even out tt loss not coverd up by MU.
 
I think having any bankroll is irreverent if the person using it doesn't stop after a certain amount has gone and his down x amount. Reason i say this is because i myself have put down over 75% on lifescanner max loot wise i got no hof from it, but as soon as i started switching between things i eventually got the =. Having a bankroll makes things easier but it doesn't guarantee success if you dont know when to stop and switch things or just stop at all because its not your day.

The system is designed for all player types and wallet type's so even with a bankroll of 10k ped or 200k ped you can still lose big style.

What i will say is that missions are the biggest sinner to the above because people want to complete them, at which it will likely cost a pretty penny doing so. Having multiple missions open and switching between mobs on the missions will help alot more then having a bankroll. Just my 2 pec.
 
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Any activity cost x 3000-5000 kills/drops

Kill atrox young = 3.60 PED x 3000 = 10,963 PED

Or on the higher end 3.60 x 5000 = 18,260 PED

Drop probe ore = 1 ped x 5000 = 5,000 PED
 
Oleg said:
If you don't stop then you must have decided that you don't need 10k PED bankroll any more, and you're perfectly happy with 9500 PED.

So what does it mean? Anything?
Click to expand...
Good u bring that up!

I can answer that question but be warned, the answer is not short and easy.
The answer is yes AND no - depending on your playstyle.

If ur daily activities are in the range of hundreds of looting events (in crafting = clicks) then u are essentially in the Realm of Unpredictable.
If u operating in the range of thousands of looting events then the laws of nature that apply to u will change. The Law of the Large Numbers takes over and suddenly all these the chaotic unpredictable separate events will transform into fully predictable average statistical values.

Common sense can't really grasp this transformation. Then again, it seems the Universe doesn't give a damn about our common sense. There is a similar effect when u compare macrocosm (rocks, trees, planets, stars, galaxies) and microcosm (electrons, photons, neutrinos). When u go downwards on that scale there's a certain point where the "normal" laws of nature transform into a completely different set of rules. One particle can restfully exist in two different locations at the same time, etc. Bye bye common sense.​

For someone operating in the realm of statistical average values the term "bankroll" will make perfect sense. U will have some good runs and some bad runs but long term it's just one single number, the average return %. It can go up a little with the macro-scale loot swings (upswings) or it can go down a little (during downswings) but it will not change much.

Suppose your long term average is 95%, with error margin (plus-minus) 1.5%.
Suppose u can reclaim 3% with MU.
This means u can safely predict that (if u won't hit a big one this month and don't want to sell ur skills to cover up for the missing 2% either) it's your cost to play. If u depo that sum your bankroll won't change.

Alternatively, you can take a hard long look at your statistics and decide this is unsatisfactory. It has to change. There's a way to do that: invest. Invest into deeds, cut down a % or two from your defense cost by using some of those supereco healing tools, invest in skills to be able to use a better (L) weapon with more dpp and dps but considerably lower MU, etc etc.​

This is a world that anyone operating within hundreds of mobs/clicks realm can't understand at all.
I'm not sure if Oleg belongs to that world? Then again, it doesn't really matter anyway.


Disclaimer: Knowing and following the recipe above does not mean that's all u have to know about the game. Read slick27 post above, for example.
 
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Oleg said:
I think it boils down to one simple piece of advice: Don't spend what you can't afford.

I've always thought that people assigning numbers to what they call "required bankroll", or similar, is totally arbitrary.
Click to expand...

I understand bankroll as starting amount of PED for a given activity.
Of course during that activity available PED will go down due to spending on ammo/probes/repairs and will go up due to selling some MU (I wish!) items. So no way of having exactly bankroll at any given time.
It's just a determinant whether I should start this or other activity, i.e. if I have only 1k PED I would not go killing mid/big mobs because I would spend that 1k in one hour of hunt and if I'm unlucky I just lost 30% of my entire bankroll in one go.

Just as well as bankroll, other important related (and often neglected) thing is ability to scale down or up in activity when needed.

Actual size of bankroll depends on many factors, like:
- are you trying to squeeze every last MU possible?
- are you lazy to spend more time selling loot than hunting and prefer to do this less often in bigger quantities?
- do you have UL gear?
- are you HOF junkie and chase them or don't mind eco/boring playing style?
- and few other....

I would think that for most people around 10x the size of 'run cost' would be enough.
 
3% of the peds you currently have on hand is the amount of peds that should be at risk at any one time. If this means you are dressed in full shadow sporting a mm and mod fap with a fapper to hunt puny's then so be it.
 
I am always broke within one or two days, untill my next deposit.

WTF is a bankroll :D
 
Alternatively using your main setup.

After a few runs, see the worst outcome.

Multiply this by 10/20 to be on safe side.

Hunt total cost 1000. Returned 950.

Need 50 x 10/20 = 5000/10000.
 
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