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Teleporter Fees on the way, says President of the Virtual Reality...

my first double post. :yay:
 
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DoA said:
I really hope ND and MA can make the difference between the silent majority and the vocal minority.

Yes, there were definitely a few people that cried and whined about this propose changed, some of them really loud, posting in several threads, but is pretty much the same names... I counted now all names appeared in the threads I could find and the grand total was... 78 people... and if only 78 people had a problem with the change, I guess that's kinda a green light for the change... especially considering that a big part of these 78 people that are now arming against ND and threaten to quit are pretty much the same people that also opposed to any previous changes.
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Hmmm, I guess I did a count and can only find ND and one other person that are vociferously in favor of this sadly misguided idea. So, I guess 78 to 2 is a pretty overwhelming majority. Looks like we have a green light to go ahead and ask them to go away and take their ideas to some other game?
 
DoA said:
Maybe have some life-time, monthly, daily subscriptions (they exist IRL public transport if ND went that route anyway) ...
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The city I live in recently made all public transport 100% free.

Less ppl using cars, less pollution, less traffic, less traffic jams, less money spent on repairing the roads, less investments needed for building wider roads with higher throughput capacity, smaller local taxes, overall positive effect on the economy.​

Gewitter's post explains how the opposite change (getting rid of the free public transport) will "liven up economy" and make MA "rich".
 
DoA said:
Yes, there were definitely a few people that cried and whined about this propose changed, some of them really loud, posting in several threads, but is pretty much the same names... I counted now all names appeared in the threads I could find and the grand total was... 78 people... and if only 78 people had a problem with the change, I guess that's kinda a green light for the change... especially considering that a big part of these 78 people that are now arming against ND and threaten to quit are pretty much the same people that also opposed to any previous changes.
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I usually never was outraged after implementing all previous changes.
All prevoius changes do not touch the basic costs of play, just MU (all these explosives, crap-nell and so on :laugh: )
Some changes on the contrary was good, like removed armor equipping fee or portable terminals, and maybe transport fee (even without a missions), and these little or big changes did not affect the players, and not increase basic cost of play for those who do a deposits or even play for free. Now, however, the proposed idea increases the basic cost of play only for mining-hunting (and similar) activity of the players, not for all players, but only part of them. Not surprisingly, they are outraged. Why is not for all the players? Because crafters will only benefit! They will practically not pay this tax. They will manufacture and sell these tokens with an additional MU!. Which means that we will pay an additional MU for each ped paid for one jump (it will be not 1 PED, it will be 1.2 PED). This means that soon we will see BP on the weapon cells, probes, and all that is now can be bought in TT. Yes, it would be fun and interesting, but in this case, MA must be isolated 100% of those who play the game as the casino(gamblers), remove the condition slider from manufacturing terminals and remove all amplifiers above 5 level, and of course explosive IV BP's. After this, I am ready for any changes in the game, including fee for teleports or probes, manufactured by crafters. Idea to add subscription fee (Taxed TP is similar to this fee for 2/3 player base), combined with MU decreasing process is stupid. Someone wants to reach the state, when 99% of players must deposit every month to continue playing. Ideal: Average MU = 101%, taxes 20-25%. No withdrawals, only depo. Every day, every week, every month. Idiocy.
 
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DoA said:
There are two ways (excluding the lowering your expenses part) to increase income/profit:

- make your customers spend more on their average order (by overselling, cross selling or whatever)

- attract more PAYING customers

Now we could debate a lot over which is more effective, both in general as in this particular case, but the fact remains that there isn't a single solution that ends the story. ;)
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So, how do you attract more paying customers? By saddling them with more fees and costs whenever some clown has a "vision" or the company needs to pad its bottom line? How about by making the game more enjoyable, reducing annoyances, reducing costs, and proving that you are the sort of company that a person could recommend to their friends?

You want a real wake up call? Ask people how many of them would recommend this game to their friends. Ever since I started playing this game, not only would I not tell my friends what it was, but I actively forbid them from trying it. And I am far from the exception here. I have had this conversation with many other players.

It's the stupid crap, like this ND thing, that prevents active depositors from recommending this game to their friends.

MindArk once said that they were targeting an average cost to play of $2/hr. Now, consider that high-level players can play much more economically than low-level players. Add to that the fact that all of the sweat gatherers and fruit-walkers are essentially paying nothing. Now consider that ND wants to bring in a whole new crop of players who will actually have a negative cost to play. How in the hell is any of this going to add to the acquisition and retention of more paying customers?
 
Rumsponge said:
You want a real wake up call? Ask people how many of them would recommend this game to their friends. Ever since I started playing this game, not only would I not tell my friends what it was, but I actively forbid them from trying it. And I am far from the exception here. I have had this conversation with many other players.
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My thoughts exactly. Neither myself or anyone else I know that has stuck around in this game would give it a recommendation. All of Mindark's missed opportunities to make this game great are saddening.
 
If the idea was to aid new players with the introduction of a nominal fee say 5-10 pec or whatever i think people would be more prone to accept. Say is a new material when sweat+oil are refined to make teleporter fuel or whatever and need a stack to use planetary tp's. This way would increase demand for sweat, help new players and not be a huge burden to players in the main. MA would get a trickle of cash in through teleporters 10 million 5-10 pec + all refining decay + auction fees, new and low depo players a new income stream.

The main issue with ND's plan is firstly the IPO (cash grab) which inflates the cost per TP and to playerbase (investors want a return). If this is truly about aiding new player retention, adding more depth to game, and making MA a bit more cash then why even go the IPO route? Adding more people to pay out for via IPO will give a cash injection, but long term would be better to do in-house to strengthen cash reserve vs in game liability.

I just wish MA would be straight with the playerbase (if this is already in motion), as we all understand they need to keep the lights on and business fluid. What i dislike are the smoke and mirror tricks that would work on normal MMO players (12- 16 year olds) such as the sham election process, and ND suddenly having this idea. Most who play EU are older gamers, and to treat them almost as children i think causes most of the bad feeling about things.

If we are going to have elections make them transparent and not pre-determined, if we are to have a representative for players then process of idea's put forward should be discussed with community first. The way this has been done has been badly thought out and actioned, and may bite us in the ass further down the line.

Just my opinions
 
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For all who may still not have access to ND new found forum:

Your Math is very valid and everything you point out will absolutely have to be taken into account.
However what also needs to be considered is that the entire economy might get a boost with this IPO if its handled correctly. Itis designed to attract significantly more users through the Jobs and Conscription which when combined with initiatives from MA to stimulate more crafting and demand for resources can have a dramatic impact on your overall numbers..

The Transport system and associated token costs will be balanced very carefully as will the other transport costs..

Yes if You take this on its own and out of context of it successfully bringing lots more users and tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of investment, then I see how bad it can look.

But Please look at the overall plan, its not just one thing.... Most importantly this is a high concept idea to underwrite the creation of jobs in VR.. I want to raise billions, I want to show the world we can have a massive VR RCE Market place.. (Ofc the platform will need to grow to accommodate millions of players, I also think a significant part of that user base would be utilizing APPs and other platforms to connect to the RCE.

The Reason that the balancing and dev of EU s not moving as fast as we would all like is because the platform needs to be growing at the same time to fund it.

I certainly am discussing with MA the general economy and am being assured steps are being taken to increase manufacturing and the demand for resources..

If the steps are not taken or not successful, I am able to challenge them on their choices. I can present ideas from the community. But I'm not the CEO of MA or chief balancing officer. As Prez of VR I am an outsider geared to creating initiatives to bridge worlds and to bring EU to the forefront of VR where it really should be given that it is an extraordinary RCE Universe. Yes the economy is out of whack and there are so many reasons why. Also there are internal politics at MA that have to be navigated to push for Dev...

I will do as much as I can, but we can see the Entropia Player base doesn't really want that from me. They would rather have someone they have confidence in to address MA regarding balancing and the economy... That's fine I didn't run for president of Entropia Universe. I wouldn't have... What's the point, I can already communicate with MA regarding these issues. I can pitch them ideas... I want to work to show the world the value of RCE worlds. I want to champion the best of EU.

I think now is a really good time for the community to find some player representatives, who they have faith in and charge them with the task of putting to together a priority list to present to MA. In my capacity i will support these reps in presenting these plans to MA.

I want the economy to be stronger for the Players. That's what I want. I know why things that seem to be obvious to the players are not being implemented.. I want to help facilitate the Dev we need to improve the overall balancing.
to do that I have to generate renewed interest in the platfom. Banner ads alone are not enough to fuel significant growth. We need initiatives. People talk about advertising, but there are many companies with deeper pockets than MA who are driving the cost of new user acquisition up.. if only it were as easy as putting an Ad on TV or in a magazine.. The numbers aren't there...

We have to re-invent and think outside the box...

But enough I don't want to sell you or anyone else on the initiative right now... I have put it out there, digest it, think about what I'm trying to do and I'll think about what everyone's saying...

MA is congress at the end of the day, my initiatives have to get past them.. I was warned that some of the existing Population would be up in arms... But I believe that there is a great opportunity here and I will continue to champion it...

to think I don't care about the players is unrealistic, if the players are not happy, I'm out of business. My planet will die.
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OZtwo said:
For all who may still not have access to ND new found forum:
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"to think I don't care about the players is unrealistic, if the players are not happy, I'm out of business. My planet will die."
:wise:time will tell
 
T79x said:
"to think I don't care about the players is unrealistic, if the players are not happy, I'm out of business. My planet will die."
:wise:time will tell
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Funny but my guess is ND contacted 711 to disable the signup for the site :)

(yes joking)
 
OZtwo said:
Funny but my guess is ND contacted 711 to disable the signup for the site :)

(yes joking)
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This of a bit offtopic but ...

I've been the sole mod on EF since late 2012, and normally I log in there to check for new posts and handle spam at least once a day.

Up to early March, when I was away for several weeks, there was usually several spam posts a day to be handled, so clearly registration was working then.

However, since I returned in April, I think I've banned only one spammer.

My guess is that 711 may have introduced a new anti-spam module (or updated an existing one) during my absence, and the parameters for this needs tweaking to enable legitimate new members to register.
 
what i dont like is this deed crap. what about this: instead of "boosting" every deed holders account by 1 or 2 pec every day why not boost the pedcard of for example 3 people a day by 3000 peds?
it would work like this:
they said 1.000.000 usd per year so that would ben around 27k peds a day. now take away half of it for MA and half to the players. for easier purposes we will go down to 10k peds to the players. now split it in 3 parts (hunter,miner,crafter) so each profession has 3333 peds available. now make some kind of lottery for each profession. either by randomly giving them 3333 peds on their card or add it to any mob (not only big ones) and so on. it could be a rare item (lottery ticket with tt value of daily tp fee for each profession -> 3333 peds on their calculations) BUT for being eligible to win the ticket you need to hunt 100 mobs in last 24 hours for the hunting price, drop 100 probes for mining or manufacture 100 items for crafting. so everyone would have the chance to hit the big lottery when they play actively and they will get a significantly boost to their bankroll which sums up to more spend peds on that persons and an increase in overall turnover. just a first thought on this but i think this would add a lot of thrill and people hunting mining and crafting and waiting for lottery price. could be exciting and will be a thrill especially for new players. and a growing player base will benefit everyone.
 
Rumsponge said:
You want a real wake up call? Ask people how many of them would recommend this game to their friends. Ever since I started playing this game, not only would I not tell my friends what it was, but I actively forbid them from trying it. And I am far from the exception here. I have had this conversation with many other players.
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tekmaster82 said:
My thoughts exactly. Neither myself or anyone else I know that has stuck around in this game would give it a recommendation. All of Mindark's missed opportunities to make this game great are saddening.
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That is something I simply can't understand.

If you consider that the game is so bad that it's not worth of being recommended to your friends, why you're still here and you haven't followed your own advice and quit playing all together?

For myself, I stand behind all the things that I do and I would have no problem recommending any game I play, any book I read, any movie or TV series I watch, any program I use and so on... if I would come to a point of doubt it they are worth being recommending or not, I would just stop playing / reading / watching / using them myself and move towards greener pastures...

Except pathological problems (addiction) or a masochistic complex, I really fail to see why a sane person would keep doing something that they consider is not good (for them)... and if you find yourself in this situation, I really think there are bigger things to worry about than a new TP fee in a game.
 
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DoA said:
That is something I simply can't understand.
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Well, I think it is actually a VERY common phenomenon here. The thing is, it is especially the people who play EU AND write on the forums who are very headstrong and make their own decisions at their own risk.

Now, while EU apparently offers some elements which people can't seem to find in other environments, it is also extremely embarrassing how xyz MA manage to be at the same time. Cringingly embarrasing, even. This is why lots of people do NOT recommend EU to their friends.
[There is a very short scene in the video version of a Hitchhiker's Guide... where chimpansees are NOT invited to dinner by humans, who are embarrassed about their evolutionary ancestry. Very British, maybe, but it applies just as well to EU I feel]

Add to that some of the disagreements on the forums, and that's then another thing you don't want to drag RL friends into.

You possibly don't know the "Please don't let it be them" adverts. It is a series of ads for a lottery - and famous people are in the ads, who would then do embarrassing things if they won. The ads are funny, so I do like them, but they address something similar to the EU thing.

Now, I still think introducing tp fees across different games is a terrible idea. Also to logoff/on to compet/EU and back. That is part of the proposal. WITHIN EU itself I think it actually has a chance if done properly .... properly, properly....

I also accept your point of view too, of course. I think you already know that ;)
 
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How to close a company down without shutting it down by using some bull excuse or lie where millions are involved where a major investigation or fraud lawsuit might end up in play....

Implement stupid ideas over time fleece the customers to a point they all stop depositing and start leaving...eventually not many customers are left where its feasible to operate the company any more close down the natural way...All legit

Walk away with millions no law suit no investigations no nothing.

Have a lovely day.
 
Me Really Never said:
what i dont like is this deed crap. what about this: instead of "boosting" every deed holders account by 1 or 2 pec every day why not boost the pedcard of for example 3 people a day by 3000 peds?
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Whatever boost deed owners ped card need on other side players who consume, decay, deposit.
Its distribution from deposited money to investors profits or take outers or free to play with someone else deposit.
Its like a glass of water - as much one drink that much someone else need to add (be it fresh deposit or already in game peds/resources) what result in higher cost to play.
If you want dreams of healthily economy in strictly controlled environment what EU is the solution would be that TP fee go to loot pol and NOT to "investors" and we are very near to subscription variant of EU witch is already killing game with high cost to play in form of LA's taxes, service fees, deed profits, planet partners profits, resellers and more.
Another solutions would be no more withdrawals what could kill EU instantly.
Witch dream we want to dream?
I doubt we want EU full of investors with investments in every single pice of EU form LA's, transport, space, deeds, new deeds on whatever players want to buy so from percentages of some top gear to TP's, all terminals, yes mission terminals/NPC's too, storage and what not.
How many whales, gamblers and addicted grinders or just average losers need to feed all that in one game without gamers (normal consumers)?
 
Me Really Never said:
what i dont like is this deed crap. what about this: instead of "boosting" every deed holders account by 1 or 2 pec every day why not boost the pedcard of for example 3 people a day by 3000 peds?
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I think all future projects like the other games we will be able to tp to will be part crowdfunded by deeds. So if, lets same EvilCorp wants to make a farming game using MA's platform, they are given the option to crowdfund via the deed platform for raising funds to join the platform, develop the game and gain free advertising from the EU players.

any profits are shared between MA, Deeds and EvilCorp but the Deeds are paid to back to the players meaning its most likely to be cycled in EU giving, EU more funds but also giving MA more too.

but on a side note I wonder if they plan to break the game, Caly is 1 game, Cyrene another and so on....
 
Serica said:
This of a bit offtopic but ...

I've been the sole mod on EF since late 2012, and normally I log in there to check for new posts and handle spam at least once a day.

Up to early March, when I was away for several weeks, there was usually several spam posts a day to be handled, so clearly registration was working then.

However, since I returned in April, I think I've banned only one spammer.

My guess is that 711 may have introduced a new anti-spam module (or updated an existing one) during my absence, and the parameters for this needs tweaking to enable legitimate new members to register.
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Off topic...

Yes that is what I was guessing since a few of my site I had to do this same. found it much faster to do that then try and fix the issue at hand (for me that is).
 
jetsina said:
Now, I still think introducing tp fees across different games is a terrible idea. Also to logoff/on to compet/EU and back. That is part of the proposal. WITHIN EU itself I think it actually has a chance if done properly .... properly, properly....
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I posted this a few days ago, but I think this is what the new TP system is. These other games that are talking about are not here yet. There is only 1 in development right now. The only way that this system could work would be if this was done all on the same platform. As you know it would be impossible to more us between current games like EVE. So with that, what I'm guessing here is that MA is wanting us to pay for there portal between future games that will be using MA EU platform such as the up coming casino.

Sad to put it this way but we have Hangers all over again. I wish MA would stop this and just work on the game here at hand.
 
you are right. of course MA wants to make money. nobody denies that, and they should do it. BUT the problem i see is, that they failed to raise the player base so they dont earn as much as they want from decay alone. they tried to raise the turnover which doesnt really work when you dont increase the playerbase. and instead of trying to find ways to get new players that stay to increase the overall turnover and like that also their profit, they find ways to get peds on other ways that dont need new players. like the deeds. the problem i see with deeds is that more people that are allready in game invest their peds in deeds to get income on a low level and that turns down their turnover because they have less spare peds to use. imo they should focus on the game itself and on advertising and getting a bigger player base as many of the problems there are at the moment will be gone with 10 times the players of now. but making more and more deeds will just result in big pockets of MA, more invested peds and less turnover, because more peds in game /= more turnover. and tp fees = even less turnover so their actual earned money from gameplay goes down which feeds the deadly spiral of investing new useless deed shit to get money again and turning down the turnover again.
 
DoA said:
That is something I simply can't understand.

If you consider that the game is so bad that it's not worth of being recommended to your friends, why you're still here and you haven't followed your own advice and quit playing all together?
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Many people that are unhappy with changes are simply sticking around because the money/time invested is greater than the unhappiness with the changes. Given the opportunity to start over knowing what they know now, they might choose to avoid it. Saying 'if you are unhappy then leave' is not a constructive way to resolve the problem. If everyone who was unhappy with changes in game quit, there would be no one left.

EU just is not for everyone. I have friends that are addictive personalities so I would not even mention it, and just say 'you wouldn't like it' if they asked me. Or if they suck at numbers - If I hear 'how do I calculate markup?' this is probably not for you.
 
I think it is all about levels of play here.
The best thing is to have the options of cost against time. If it's quick, it costs a bit more....

Now at what point does the cost of a tp to a different continent or the opposite side of one ped make someone choose a slower option? Is it someone who would be shooting argos for an hour, but now spends 20 mins getting there for 10 pecs of fuel?

At what point is that stupid of MA, because the avatar is now wasting time noone wants to waste?
We have that in space when people travel in quads (worse with sleips), where travel times can be much higher for a trickle of oil costs, instead of the avatar getting down to faster decay at a destination.

Most of the smaller warp ships, even the motherships, do not seem to do very much. Things are out of balance.
 
DoA said:
That is something I simply can't understand.

If you consider that the game is so bad that it's not worth of being recommended to your friends, why you're still here and you haven't followed your own advice and quit playing all together?
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Because you are new to game. For myself being here only 5 years to just simply leave I would have to figure out how to sell out. I would need to sell my loot, skills and what not with a value of well over 10,000 USD. Remember this is just me. Others have a lot more invested in this game, and again, since this is a true RCE game one can not just simply quit. So yes as you are a low level player saying that you may withdraw that $100 USD and leave kind of shows you are a little to new to understand. I know 16 is a very confusing time in anyone's life.

BTW is ND paying you to do this? (if he is, hats off to you -- that is what this game is based on :silly2: )
 
OZtwo said:
Because you are new to game. For myself being here only 5 years to just simply leave I would have to figure out how to sell out. I would need to sell my loot, skills and what not with a value of well over 10,000 USD. Remember this is just me. Others have a lot more invested in this game, and again, since this is a true RCE game one can not just simply quit. So yes as you are a low level player saying that you may withdraw that $100 USD and leave kind of shows you are a little to new to understand. I know 16 is a very confusing time in anyone's life.

BTW is ND paying you to do this? (if he is, hats off to you -- that is what this game is based on :silly2: )
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Plus, some of us have a vested interest that transcends dollar value.

I started playing PE/EU in 2002, January... I've been here over 14 years. As I'm 29 next month, in 1 year I'll have been active here for 50% of my life.

That's longer than I spent at uni, longer than any relationship I've ever had.

You can't just walk away from something that ingrained into you just because some !!!! thinks it's OK to wreck the game.. you fight for it. I can't wait until there's an actual election and Star wins by a fucking landslide.
 
Aio said:
Plus, some of us have a vested interest that transcends dollar value.

I started playing PE/EU in 2002, January... I've been here over 14 years. As I'm 29 next month, in 1 year I'll have been active here for 50% of my life.

That's longer than I spent at uni, longer than any relationship I've ever had.

You can't just walk away from something that ingrained into you just because some !!!! thinks it's OK to wreck the game.. you fight for it. I can't wait until there's an actual election and Star wins by a fucking landslide.
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Very true didn't want bring that up as well. So many older people here like this just because of our friends.

BTW, yes I'm working on ND to drop out and start this all over again. As I told him, he can't since this is all MA here and he has no control. He did slip when I said I did submit my email for more info and he said he never got it. lol :)
 
Dunno, maybe is just me, but I just don't find it healthy at all to stick with a habit, hobby, job, relation or whatever that is no longer fun or entertaining for you; life is just too short to waste it doing things that are not bringing us positive feelings. Is not about being new or old in the game; is a matter of principle - don't waste my life doing something that is not fun / entertaining / exciting for me anymore.

I've quit games that I played before in the moment when they stopped being fun (on some of them being able to sell out, or some not being able to; on some I returned later on, on some I didn't), just like I quit watching series through the middle of them when it was obviously that the quality is going lower or like I take distance from "friends" that stopped bringing a positive influence in my life, but started to become "toxic".

Friends from games... sure, I can understand that, I still stay in touch with people I get along with in other games... with some of them I met (synced) later in other games, with others I only stayed connected on Skype and with a few of them I even met IRL when they visited Romania (it is worth visiting! awesome places and cheap prices!)... can't understand the need to stay in a medium that you start perceiving as negative/toxic to stay in touch with them though.

I won't insist on this, but try to swap the perspective a bit and look at it from outside... what would you think about someone who would cry daily about their spouse, job or hobby, but don't make any change, don't take any action to find something better, but just become content and accustomed with their unhappiness (to make it clear, I'm not referring here to people that are unhappy about this change, but to people that said that MA & EU already s**ks and that they would under no circumstances recommend it to their friends).
 
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DoA said:
I won't insist on this, but try to swap the perspective a bit and look at it from outside... what would you think about someone who would cry daily about their spouse, job or hobby, but don't make any change, don't take any action to find something better, but just become content and accustomed with their unhappiness.
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If my partner decided to write "idiot" on their forehead, I'd tell them strongly not to do it. If they then did it, well, who knows what will happen :)
 
DoA said:
If you consider that the game is so bad that it's not worth of being recommended to your friends, why you're still here and you haven't followed your own advice and quit playing all together?
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I like smartphones but if my granma asks what should she use I'll say: cheap, simple, big buttons.

Can we move on now? :cool:
 
In my book, A president's responsibilities start at the very foundation of society, in this case the the foundation behind a succesfull Virtual reality platform.

#1 Priority should be a clean, tidy & almost bugfree platform to launch grand innovative solutions (like 1 billion jobs)

The big problem here is, That this foundation is not existant. Its like building a house on a cliff with unstable ground beneath it. Entropia Universe is not convincing with many features being incomplete. Some planets are ghost towns, and word of mouth in general about Entropia is negative.

I started my journey in Entropia the 26 th December 2003, and never have the game been in a truly polished shape in form of performance, Features or amount of bugs.

THIS CAN BE FIXED. AND THIS SHOULD BE #1 PRIORITY. When there's a solid and convincing gaming platform to launch these initiatives on, There's a good chance something good will come out of it. AND people would be more willing to pay once its a real quality product.


My 2 cent ;-)
 
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