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FYI: Smilgs hunting log - 2016 and beyond

sachi.mk2 said:
I agree with everything that Vodka is saying. I am purely speculating, but when the summer rings dropped - 20-30 summer rings probably has a greater impact than 2-3 easter rings - I started noticing less multipliers in my loot. The returns I was getting with 3.00-3.10 dpp 1-2 years ago was superior to my experience of the past 6 months. It feels to me that the hunting loot pool is being drained by the vast increase in focus blow rings, and I've personally gone inactive because I don't want to invest 30k-50k into buff items that will probably be worth 50% of their value next year.
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I personally think that regardless of rings the real "huge" change going on in EU right now is the new super eco, super efficiency guns dropping.

I looted an LBC 16 (L) yesterday, you should've seen the stats on that little gun. Not much ammo per shot.
So it's looted guns, and new guns made from transgen fruit that going to really shake things up.....use them or die I guess.

There is a change coming folks....and it's massive.
I think we're returning to the days when you could afford to shoot all day for reasonable depo per month regardless of your gear.

It just so happens to coincide with CLD's about to pay back the initial 1000 ped investment in them....MA make me laugh how they roll.

For sure Ma can turn a LA on or off, why wouldn't they want that control?

It's the you scratch our back we scratch yours approach. This is how I think MA think; "We know LA's can payout big money, so sure thank you for your investment, enjoy yourself, go buy some uber toys,....but if you think we will let you pull out a sh*t load of cash....without "helping" us generate more turnover....won't happen".

Put some massive prizes on your LA, and watch how quickly things change :)

Come on, we've all been around long enough to think like MA, and we all know how it rolls.

Rick
 
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Me Really Never said:
i know people though who log every fucking shit and are total data freaks and their longterm result (over hundreds of thousands of peds spend) show that the longterm return is exactly the amount of tax lower on taxed than on untaxed land...
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Yeah you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get this. I do however get why 5dolla and smilgs want to protect their investment by claiming it isn't so.
 
look, my data does not show it and my log is out there to prove it (eomons 2016 being the latest example)
if you think that I am faking the data feel free to do so but I don't
minim said:
Yeah you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get this. I do however get why 5dolla and smilgs want to protect their investment by claiming it isn't so.
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girtsn said:
look, my data does not show it and my log is out there to prove it (eomons 2016 being the latest example)
if you think that I am faking the data feel free to do so but I don't
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But you have a golden chance to prove your theory since you have massive logs of taxed osseo.
Instead of just refering too eomons as a fact, when most people i know, self included suffered alot worse tt returns then you.
Migration was reglated so elms would cover bad tt.

Screen tracker this month "top hunters" then do 1 month untaxed, deduct hofs being alot higher then you had this month.
 
I have repeatedly done the same test with hunting big bulks, mulmuns, eomons and whatnot - dropping MU or not. The only reason it makes sense to go to them used to be the MU which can cover the difference (which is not really the case anymore as bigbulks are not there and for the rest, there is almost no MU besides e.l.m).
Other than that, I would be a fool to not hunt on the LA as the tt return does not change.

Even if wanted to repeat the test, with my bankroll, cannot experiment.

If someone wants to do the test, don't see the point of "deducting hofs" unless they are 10k+ or so. September on osses with an 8k hof was with less tt return than last month with no hofs over 2k. Maybe deducting hofs is what screws up your assumptions on taxed vs. untaxed. Return is return regardless of regular hofs.
carle said:
But you have a golden chance to prove your theory since you have massive logs of taxed osseo.
Instead of just refering too eomons as a fact, when most people i know, self included suffered alot worse tt returns then you.
Migration was reglated so elms would cover bad tt.

Screen tracker this month "top hunters" then do 1 month untaxed, deduct hofs being alot higher then you had this month.
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girtsn said:
I have repeatedly done the same test with hunting big bulks, mulmuns, eomons and whatnot - dropping MU or not. The only reason it makes sense to go to them used to be the MU which can cover the difference (which is not really the case anymore as bigbulks are not there and for the rest, there is almost no MU besides e.l.m).
Other than that, I would be a fool to not hunt on the LA as the tt return does not change.

Even if wanted to repeat the test, with my bankroll, cannot experiment.

If someone wants to do the test, don't see the point of "deducting hofs" unless they are 10k+ or so. September on osses with an 8k hof was with less tt return than last month with no hofs over 2k. Maybe deducting hofs is what screws up your assumptions on taxed vs. untaxed. Return is return regardless of regular hofs.
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So if return is return how can you be so sure other items are destroying your tt returns when your hunting a mob that yeild 80k hofs?
 
Said it is reasonable to exclude atypical hofs didn't I? 80k is quite atypical. For small hofs, in my experience before or after looting the hof the system evens it out (yea MA said this, MA said that - my tracking doesn't lie).
imho comparing 2 months taxed vs. 2 months untaxed is big enough sample size with my turnover (200k ammo or so)
I have not seen a big tt% change depending on the MU of items looted... This is yet another theory.
carle said:
So if return is return how can you be so sure other items are destroying your tt returns when your hunting a mob that yeild 80k hofs?
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As long as LA's pay ESI's, I don't think hunters would give a poo either way if tax counted or not.

In the days I was doing Rex missions, I got a few nice ESI's on BIG Industries Rex LA, to help keep going.

I was also pretty confident that if mobs in the wild weren't looing , then mobs on LA's would. I don't know if that still holds true in our dynamic universe.

At some point I will try some Osses on your LA, I'm in my taming 'skilling' phase for a while with targets to get.

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
As long as LA's pay ESI's, I don't think hunters would give a poo either way if tax counted or not.

In the days I was doing Rex missions, I got a few nice ESI's on BIG Industries Rex LA, to help keep going.

I was also pretty confident that if mobs in the wild weren't looing , then mobs on LA's would. I don't know if that still holds true in our dynamic universe.

At some point I will try some Osses on your LA, I'm in my taming 'skilling' phase for a while with targets to get.

Rick
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If you hunt same mat mob the loot in them won't be different taxed/untaxed.. But some mobs on taxed LA's tend to give more than others but those are unique on taxed LA's often. Like dasp/scoria++

Smilgs LA is the best one to hunt osseos in. The loot will be the same as the untaxed spawn but it's such a hassle to hunt there. His mission reward+global bonuses makes the cost so low to hunt there that I rather paid the tax and completed my mission there instead of having a nightmare grinding them in untaxed spawn.
 
carle said:
Now this is next theory is just speculation but its something ive been looking at for also almost 1 year.
I do not belive in a lootpool as a whole, its only mob based seperared if taxed and if your the single hunter on 1 mob you can never expect anything other then your peds back.
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Personally, I think it's either mob based, or area/server based (at least to a degree).

When I was hunting argonauts in the middle of nowhere with no other hunters, I saw ~90-91% return.

When I hunt kerbs in packed areas I can see long term returns upwards of 100%. This could be because more hunters are cycling at different levels of DPP, so the available PED in the pool was constantly shifting.

Unfortunately I don't have much data, but I've had similar experiences with mining as well (unstable returns with more miners in the server, stable returns in an empty server). But these could also be coincidences.

Another reason I don't think it's entirely mob based is because of Rocktropia. There are Calypso mobs on Rocktropia with an entirely different loot table.
 
minim said:
Yeah you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get this. I do however get why 5dolla and smilgs want to protect their investment by claiming it isn't so.
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You make assumptions, rather offensive ones. I realize you would rather take stabs at other people than simply do the test I outlined in the other thread, but you could put in a little effort.

I don't need to protect my investments. If I thought it was different than what I have suggested, I would have said so. I have my logs and I have shared them in great detail. I don't need to defend anything else. I would say you have more an agenda than either one of us. Give it a rest.

Do the test or don't. That's the beauty of this system. We all have logs, data, etc. and we can only have a very good educated guess. No one would know for certain NOT even you.

I have only suggested in my logs that I have not seen much difference between taxed and untaxed. In fact, I have better % on taxed than untaxed. I think returns have more to do with the resources of the mobs themselves. I have only ever suggested that you simply do your own tests and come up with your own conclusions and stop doing and chasing what everyone else is doing. It always gets you in trouble.

Btw, I find it curious you suggest (incorrectly) we are being deceptive (offensive) to protect investments but you say nothing to those quantifying 50k/100k/395k for rings that offer much less when you apply math. Curious indeed.
 
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And there I was thinking previous months were really bad.
It was down to -23k with 88.5% tt return (all time low monthly) and then last day of the month a hof happened.
Guess the only thing to say is, stopping hunting by running out of peds will be quicker as expected.
Sad with profstandings, skills and hp so close to some target figures... :(
Easter rings and UL (L) armors ftw!
November 2016 = -15,825 hunting (92.35% tt)
 
Would like to see others reactions to their TT returns.

I don't hunt that much, so can't tell if my tt returns on hunting droped.
But I do craft a bit and my tt returns droped like hell and there was no new eco items introduced on crafting.

I'm not bitching, just stating my last good month was July, from tat on just a mess.
I just wonder in what extent MA upgraded TT returns and "forgot" to tell us.
 
Alfadur said:
Would like to see others reactions to their TT returns.
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I didnt hunt much in november. Cycled just shy of 41k but november was my best month in a while as far as Returns go.
 
Alfadur said:
Would like to see others reactions to their TT returns.

I don't hunt that much, so can't tell if my tt returns on hunting droped.
But I do craft a bit and my tt returns droped like hell and there was no new eco items introduced on crafting.

I'm not bitching, just stating my last good month was July, from tat on just a mess.
I just wonder in what extent MA upgraded TT returns and "forgot" to tell us.
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Same for me, after golden week on arkadia something broke. Normally on low lvl hunts I get from -50 to -150 per 1,5k ped of knife and then bam over -400 in tt so I took 3 days break and after that again over -350 per 1,5k ped.

Same for crafting, a lot of near succes on crafting attachements from L beps, every 30 clicks was -150 in tt. In one week they ripped me off for over 1,5k ped and took a break because it is uselles to play in that condition.
 
girtsn said:
Guess the only thing to say is, stopping hunting by running out of peds will be quicker as expected.
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+442,525 PED hunting, sure
 
Hello arrogant noob :)
Meant of course running out of peds available for hunting (like 20k remaining for December) and also that I cannot justify continuing based on 2016 returns.
Definitely will not repeat same as did in 2011 and 2012 anymore (accumulating 145k in hunting losses and another 240k in salaries, not counting own time spent). Back then I was hoping with enough skills vs. other players, stuff would turn in my favor - and seemed good for 2013 to 2015. Seeing 2016, could not be further from the truth, it looks like it has nothing to do with skills, more with lotteries (easter ring), L UL armors, perhaps also with being on a favourite list and/or being punished for withdrawing.
Alina said:
+442,525 PED hunting, sure
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Flooding of high eco UL gear from all these upgrade missions.

Flooding of eco-boosting buffs from strongboxes.

Average eco must be very high nowadays, loot pool must really be suffering :(
 
girtsn said:
it looks like it has nothing to do with skills, more with lotteries
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Highest Loot: 29 152 PED
Total Loot: 33 832 PED

:scratch2:
 
ZPF said:
Flooding of high eco UL gear from all these upgrade missions.

Flooding of eco-boosting buffs from strongboxes.

Average eco must be very high nowadays, loot pool must really be suffering :(
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+rep... this.

Not like anyone didn't see this coming. MA has been attempting to balance ubers and the imk2 effect for a long time now.
 
yea, there are now ubers with imk2 and an easter ring, which is even more unreachable as imk2. good job :)
ofc you could see it coming and buy perfected ares ring like I did for some imk2 price, but who cares right. the easter ring lottery was the way to go, losers for not seeing how it is coming.
Rocket192 said:
Not like anyone didn't see this coming. MA has been attempting to balance ubers and the imk2 effect for a long time now.
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girtsn said:
Hello arrogant noob :)
Meant of course running out of peds available for hunting (like 20k remaining for December) and also that I cannot justify continuing based on 2016 returns.
Definitely will not repeat same as did in 2011 and 2012 anymore (accumulating 145k in hunting losses and another 240k in salaries, not counting own time spent). Back then I was hoping with enough skills vs. other players, stuff would turn in my favor - and seemed good for 2013 to 2015. Seeing 2016, could not be further from the truth, it looks like it has nothing to do with skills, more with lotteries (easter ring), L UL armors, perhaps also with being on a favourite list and/or being punished for withdrawing.
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Paying salaries hoping to make an extra profit...
You live in the wrong country to do that
I'm guessing the 240k ped in salaries is over a 2 years period?
That means +10k ped/month
 
Well 2 things, 1) it was working for 3 years or so 2) it still is working for others
As for the 10k, advanced calculation :D yea, think I already mentioned somewhere that without getting at least 10k profit per month, hunting for ~8 hours / day (translating to ~ 4$ / hour) doesn't make any sense for even most of the poor countries.
A bit less so with -15k per month, of course.
das said:
Paying salaries hoping to make an extra profit...
You live in the wrong country to do that
I'm guessing the 240k ped in salaries is over a 2 years period?
That means +10k ped/month
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Smilgs, how much tax you pay for yourself? 10k? 15k? Only tax you pay in yours LA and geting next morning should pay shooters. :scratch2:
 
so you all see my hunting log with daily data visible, and assume some numbers instead...
230k with 95ish% return, 4% = 9200 peds - this does not include fertilizer, maintenance, global messages, promotion payments.
amazing calculation. and yea that is the only reason I can continue 2016 this far, but taking November as baseline it's over
Blessing said:
Smilgs, how much tax you pay for yourself? 10k? 15k? Only tax you pay in yours LA and geting next morning should pay shooters. :scratch2:
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girtsn said:
so you all see my hunting log with daily data visible, and assume some numbers instead...
230k with 95ish% return, 4% = 9200 peds - this does not include fertilizer, maintenance, global messages, promotion payments.
amazing calculation. and yea that is the only reason I can continue 2016 this far, but taking November as baseline it's over
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ok, 9.2k.
Not sure how fertilizer works, you could explain - you pay for mobs killed and respawned or its dosnt mater, just time based?
What other maintenace LA need? Global messges, promotion paymouts... you pay that from people who hunt in yours LA payed taxes :)

I did read forum for years. Remember Helena crying all the time. Now you took ower :)

P.S. So far i know, one bad month show nothing, just need nice hof... And you had few of them ;)
 
It is not one bad month, something changed radically around April 2016. November 2016 was the worst one so far (return dropping to 88.2% nearing the end, that is an all-time low).
Avarage tt return is what matters. So please don't compare me to usual suspects (at least for this thread), I have published data to show the tt return % changed radically suddenly one month while constantly improving on equipment and skills, this is ridiculous (and indeed dynamic in a fucked up way). The only reason for grinding in Entropia is believing it can pay off and that effort is rewarded. My belief in the return system is broken, again, unfortunately.
Waiting for a hof, yea thats a great idea, have a look at my 2011 and 2012 results.
The maintenance LA needs is quite huge if you want others to hunt there, won't go into details. Though you could indeed say that other hunters on the LA are paying for it. My point was that your number 10-15k was pulled out of ... just like your beloved Helena usually did.
Blessing said:
ok, 9.2k.
Not sure how fertilizer works, you could explain - you pay for mobs killed and respawned or its dosnt mater, just time based?
What other maintenace LA need? Global messges, promotion paymouts... you pay that from people who hunt in yours LA payed taxes :)

I did read forum for years. Remember Helena crying all the time. Now you took ower :)

P.S. So far i know, one bad month show nothing, just need nice hof... And you had few of them ;)
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girtsn said:
... just like your beloved Helena usually did.
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my beloved Helena you say :laugh:

My number of 10-15k was pulled from entropia tracker and guessing how much loot is without globals. 10-15k is close to yours told 9.2k.

You confirmed you making profit - 55k in hunting log and 101k from yours own tax so its 156k, while paying 110k for shooters (that is yours choice not PLAY by yourself, but pay others). However you still cry... Sorry but im too noob to understand that :confused:
 
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summary of information already provided before
* my concern and rage is mainly about radically changing tt% one day while improving equipment and skills meanwhile + introduction of the easter ring and UL (L) armor abuse
* 12.5k is indeed just next to 9.2k, if you don't consider the 35% difference and that the return data is available in this very same thread
* 55k is not correct as 28k out of it it was from the MU of 2015 (as written in the summary of same thread) and that is mainly due to the 40k hof, so my main concern is forecasted next year without big hofs, especially after November returns
* 156k is not correct as 4 months were spent not hunting on my LAs (e.g. eomon, other events) (info available in the log data)
* 10k per month profit or 4$ / hour would be needed to make hunting reasonable for even relatively poor countries (e.g. Latvia), if you are wasting time yourself yourself or paying others to waste it for you is irrelevant (as said couple of posts above)

Blessing said:
My number of 10-15k was pulled from entropia tracker and guessing how much loot is without globals. 10-15k is close to yours told 9.2k.

You confirmed you making profit - 55k in hunting log and 101k from yours own tax so its 156k, while paying 110k for shooters (that is yours choice not PLAY by yourself, but pay others). However you still cry... Sorry but im too noob to understand that :confused:
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