How Base DPP Affects Your Loot

All of these loot theories leave out what I believe is a very important factor in this game: luck.

Very true. Nothing is guaranteed in this game. Even if you grind perfectly, in one area, follow all the "rules" that some people on PCF will tell you, have super eco gear, etc there is still a chance to lose your shirt. That's the nature of the beast. All you can do is analyze reliable data and try to maximize your chances of success and minimize losses by chasing markup.

The profit formula in my brief experience has been markup, efficiency, consistency and luck.

These aren't set in stone, though. There are people who give up efficiency for the ability to chase markup faster/harder (ex: big mining amps). You can give up markup if you have a way to kill certain mobs very efficiently (Earth Shock). Some people have more luck constantly switching zones rather than grinding one zone endlessly.

The only thing we don't understand AT ALL is the luck factor. There are all these theories about sine waves and whatnot but nothing has been proven. Until we can break this down, no system is guaranteed to work. And with markup being at an all-time low, and new players still pouring in, competition is more fierce than ever.

TLDR; Rely on your own data/experience and do what works for you, until it doesn't ;)

I understand where Fluske is coming from. You can have a system you think works, use it for a very long time and profit, but that doesn't necessarily mean the system is the root cause of your success. You would need a massive sample size to be able to spout that as "fact". But I think Rocket is just trying to share his experience, rather than sound like an authority on profit.

In terms of mining vs hunting, I definitely think the rules still apply, but with greatly reduced effectiveness and far more unstable results.

Just glanced at EntropiaTracker. Weekly Hunting = 2 mil PED Weekly Mining = 500k PED.

There is FAR more competition in hunting, and DPP changes the game. Mining has nothing similar to DPP. Finder decay is most likely returned in loot, so the only way to get an edge is to minimize markup input, which is fairly easy.

Mining for the most part is a level playing field. Hunting is very different. You can't go into hunting using your mining knowledge and expect good results. Especially when you throw waves into the mix. Waves are far less of an issue in mining.
 
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Very true. Nothing is guaranteed in this game. Even if you grind perfectly, in one area, follow all the "rules" that some people on PCF will tell you, have super eco gear, etc there is still a chance to lose your shirt. That's the nature of the beast. All you can do is analyze reliable data and try to maximize your chances of success and minimize losses by chasing markup.

The profit formula in my brief experience has been markup, efficiency, consistency and luck.

These aren't set in stone, though. There are people who give up efficiency for the ability to chase markup faster/harder (ex: big mining amps). You can give up markup if you have a way to kill certain mobs very efficiently (Earth Shock). Some people have more luck constantly switching zones rather than grinding one zone endlessly.

The only thing we don't understand AT ALL is the luck factor. There are all these theories about sine waves and whatnot but nothing has been proven. Until we can break this down, no system is guaranteed to work. And with markup being at an all-time low, and new players still pouring in, competition is more fierce than ever.

TLDR; Rely on your own data/experience and do what works for you, until it doesn't ;)

I understand where Fluske is coming from. You can have a system you think works, use it for a very long time and profit, but that doesn't necessarily mean the system is the root cause of your success. You would need a massive sample size to be able to spout that as "fact". But I think Rocket is just trying to share his experience, rather than sound like an authority on profit.

In terms of mining vs hunting, I definitely think the rules still apply, but with greatly reduced effectiveness and far more unstable results.

Just glanced at EntropiaTracker. Weekly Hunting = 2 mil PED Weekly Mining = 500k PED.

There is FAR more competition in hunting, and DPP changes the game. Mining has nothing similar to DPP. Finder decay is most likely returned in loot, so the only way to get an edge is to minimize markup input, which is fairly easy.

Mining for the most part is a level playing field. Hunting is very different. You can't go into hunting using your mining knowledge and expect good results. Especially when you throw waves into the mix. Waves are far less of an issue in mining.

Finally a voice of neutrality.

All I can share is my experience.. No one can state anything for fact without knowledge/disclosure from MA itself.
 
What Messi preaches might be true: you only lose if you stop shooting

I saw a great example of this a few months ago watching someones twitch stream. they were hunting scoria and it was going pretty bad, they stopped shooting for a quick break, within minute the other hunter hoffed 1500 ped. the same happened twice more over the next couple hours too. the steamer was here whining about their losses on scoria soon after. observation :wise:
 
For those of us who can't play the game as a second job, is there any hope? Does the game punish players who only want to drop in and hunt for an hour?

"Hope", meaning what? If you are trying to be the biggest, baddest player ingame, then no. That's reserved for those who approach this like Michael Jordan did basketball. 18 hours/day, plus dreaming of it.

However, from my perspective, sure there's hope. I've played this game almost every single day for the past 10+ years, often only 1-2 hours/day. I started in 2006 like everyone else, not knowing shit. I played, I learned, and I had, wait for it....

Fun. I had fun. Still do. That's why I keep playing.

Lots of my friends are level 100+ while I'm only level 55ish, but that's fine by me.

And money? My total deposits divided by time spent ingame means I've averaged less than $30/month in that time. And I've actually gone years without depositing.

Why? Because I've learned how to play within my small budget. Sure, I splurge sometimes, and lost peds on bad decisions, but those were fun for me.

And over those years, I did a LOT of tests. In fact, I'm fairly comfortable it was some of my testing that lead to MA finally making those statements in Dev notes. (Hey, I never said I wasn't conceited.)

So, I keep testing and playing and having fun within my budget. And yes, I've put what I've learned to good use over the years. I did mention the no depositing over a long period, right?

Got 10k+ ped? Cool, time to grind some bigger mobs. Oh, now only 100 ped left and no loot to sell? Sell all my bigger, useless gear, and start playing at the bottom mobs again. Hell, I just spent the past 2 years just doing daily missions. Against folks telling you that small hunts aren't worth it, I've somehow survived and profited. Rebuild. Lose it all. Rinse. Repeat. Goofy, but it works for me. :laugh:

So, what do you want to do ingame?
 
"Hope", meaning what? If you are trying to be the biggest, baddest player ingame, then no. That's reserved for those who approach this like Michael Jordan did basketball. 18 hours/day, plus dreaming of it.

(....)

No, I definitely don't care about being biggest and baddest anything. I was just starting to get the impression that this game was designed to cater to players who grind for long periods of time, in which case I may as well stop now. If I can enjoy the game at a casual level without losing my shirt, I'm good.
 
"Hope", meaning what? If you are trying to be the biggest, baddest player ingame, then no. That's reserved for those who approach this like Michael Jordan did basketball. 18 hours/day, plus dreaming of it.

However, from my perspective, sure there's hope. I've played this game almost every single day for the past 10+ years, often only 1-2 hours/day. I started in 2006 like everyone else, not knowing shit. I played, I learned, and I had, wait for it....

Fun. I had fun. Still do. That's why I keep playing.

Lots of my friends are level 100+ while I'm only level 55ish, but that's fine by me.

And money? My total deposits divided by time spent ingame means I've averaged less than $30/month in that time. And I've actually gone years without depositing.

Why? Because I've learned how to play within my small budget. Sure, I splurge sometimes, and lost peds on bad decisions, but those were fun for me.

And over those years, I did a LOT of tests. In fact, I'm fairly comfortable it was some of my testing that lead to MA finally making those statements in Dev notes. (Hey, I never said I wasn't conceited.)

So, I keep testing and playing and having fun within my budget. And yes, I've put what I've learned to good use over the years. I did mention the no depositing over a long period, right?

Got 10k+ ped? Cool, time to grind some bigger mobs. Oh, now only 100 ped left and no loot to sell? Sell all my bigger, useless gear, and start playing at the bottom mobs again. Hell, I just spent the past 2 years just doing daily missions. Against folks telling you that small hunts aren't worth it, I've somehow survived and profited. Rebuild. Lose it all. Rinse. Repeat. Goofy, but it works for me. :laugh:

So, what do you want to do ingame?

What lvl mobs do you consider small?
 
I'm too tired to explain my p.o.v of lootsystem, but to make a "short" note :tongue2::

Imo it isn't based on the damage, even though it could look like it.
It's about the value you create when equip gear and do interactions with a target.
Some say it's to advanced to use that, but it isn't, it's about using dynamic coding in the right way.
(When something is equiped, avatars interaction value is calculated from all parameters, it's this
value that is used against targets value. )

If doing so, you can create a system that use something we can call "reverse efficiency", e.g instead
of building values where highest value gives best outcome, best possible outcome is when we are as
close to the targets value as possible.
Reason for using such system is that a under powered set up creates a negative value,
while a over powered set up creates a positive value. Both are not efficient, since they are not close
to the targets value in the avatars build-up value for loot.
Depending on what are included in this calculation, chances are that same set up for two avatars
can have different values when using the gear.
I.e it's dynamic... :silly2:

There are a LOT more things that controll loot, but this "small" post were about avatars part
in the build up for loot.
 
I was just starting to get the impression that this game was designed to cater to players who grind for long periods of time, in which case I may as well stop now. If I can enjoy the game at a casual level without losing my shirt, I'm good.

Hehe. No, it's not. Or rather, that is the extreme top. But you don't need to compare to that and for them anyway is a choice which I don't want to debate.

Of course you can enjoy it playing casually. That is when is actually enjoyable, because otherwise is akin to work.

But, casually shouldn't mean careless. Because then, is actually much easier to lose your shirt if you grind alot. Hope it makes sense :)
 
Speaking of How Base DPP Affects Your Loot, I recall someone saying that they used a certain weapon on ambu young
specifically because the kill speed/cost/whatever made them drop a different, higher MU oil at the time.

Obviously markets change over time, and they likely don't do this anymore, but was an interesting piece of info to have, anyway.
 
Speaking of How Base DPP Affects Your Loot, I recall someone saying that they used a certain weapon on ambu young
specifically because the kill speed/cost/whatever made them drop a different, higher MU oil at the time.

Obviously markets change over time, and they likely don't do this anymore, but was an interesting piece of info to have, anyway.

Nope, this is still true...
 
Bolded the right word for you.

Raise the average loot, means other loot can show up to fill the higher ped. Again, it's about mu most of all. Trying to reach for higher average tt without the added mu won't be better for you...

But.. if you were to increase your average loot to get say... esis.....or....
 
When I can afford/have time/enough peds/energy and whatever, I will do tests with
mk5+eamp13 vs mk5+a203, to see if the difference still is there in what we get in loot.
 
Raise the average loot, means other loot can show up to fill the higher ped. Again, it's about mu most of all. Trying to reach for higher average tt without the added mu won't be better for you...

But.. if you were to increase your average loot to get say... esis.....or....

I agree larger loot pockets allow for bigger "stuff" inside it. Just saying that the larger may be, but not always is, higher MU.

Moot point in relation to this thread topic, I guess. The main point being that DPP does in fact seem to impact what you are capable of getting from the exact same mob.

Whether that can be used to offset the higher cost/kill may be another topic for the more mathematically inclined.
 
When I can afford/have time/enough peds/energy and whatever, I will do tests with
mk5+eamp13 vs mk5+a203, to see if the difference still is there in what we get in loot.

Another combo that matches in dmg/sec but not dmg/pec is:
ep-41 vs ep-40+A104

Bit old-school, but regardless of skill level, the dmg from each is exactly the same. Only cost/shot is different.

I bet there are other combos folks know that match the same dmg/hit, different dmg/pec model.
 
You get different loot depending on dmg on Mob. You have a slot of up to 3x Mob HP which you can fill. Depending on regeneration and DMG/sec you get different loot results "naturally". Of cause you can also wait for regeneration...
But you should still aim for good DMG/pec
 
No, I definitely don't care about being biggest and baddest anything. I was just starting to get the impression that this game was designed to cater to players who grind for long periods of time, in which case I may as well stop now. If I can enjoy the game at a casual level without losing my shirt, I'm good.

Shirts are over rated
 
Shirts are over rated

Go naked. It's cheaper. God gave you an avatar bound birthday suit for free. Why pay money to shield others from your gift?
 
Tracking loots on easy mobs using mid-to-high dpp setups, I've found 3 variables which do not respond to what other people are doing and two of which move in a wavelike pattern:

- loot TT
- loot rarity
- class of rare item

at each rarity peak, I get a steadily mounting burst of the same class of less-common loot (and other returns), which mounts a short time and then crashes into a "common loots only" phase. For example on one wave I'll get extractors, on another I'll get oils, on another I'll get weapons or maybe a tool, on yet another cycle all I'll get is dynamic skilling boosts. I have yet to see anything to tip me off as to how each wave's class is determined.

All of this is easier to track on low population planets.

To answer OP's question: This game is a LOT more fun in casual mode than it is in competitive grind mode. Also, the race to "end game" here is less about grinding and more about money - it may even be easier to reach end game if you pay for that privilege instead of earning it.

*Yes we have an "end game". Its definition is less clear than in many games, but when very few other people exist who can do what you do, you have reached our equivalent of "endgame"; and when gaining more of a skill does not give you an advantage, you have truly reached endgame.
 
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