Mindforce Implant Economy

EDIT: Oleg pointed out my understanding of how mindforce works was flawed. I thought implants still had a fixed decay value. I undid the changes I made to Entropedia. In any case, as a result of this thread, I now understand how implant/chip decay works. See post #5.

Not sure if this is the right category for this post, but I was curious about the economy of the L implants and the effect of the deterioration value, so did a bit of testing.

Implant Decay

Entropedia Info (before I updated):

NeoPsion 50A (L) = Missing decay
NeoPsion 55 = 0.001 PEC
NeoPsion 30 = 0.001 PEC
NeoPsion 20 = 0.001 PEC

I fruit tested all and found:

50A (L) = 0.047 PEC
55 = 0.009 PEC
30 = 0.009 PEC
20 = 0.009 PEC

I updated Entropedia with my results.

Implant Deterioration

According to the implant description:

50A (L) = 10% deterioration
55 = 2% deterioration
30 = 2% deterioration
20 = 2% deterioration

I used a Corrosive Attack Nanochip V TEN Edition (CVT) for my test.

I did 100 shots with each implant.

• With the 50A (L) implant, the CVT chip decayed 41.9 PEC for a decay of 0.419 PEC/shot.
• With the 55 implant, the CVT chip decayed 45.7 PEC for a decay of 0.457 PEC/shot.
• The 20 & 30 implants had the exact same decay as 55.

Note: Entropedia lists the decay of the CVT chip decay as 0.466 PEC/shot which is not consistent with the above findings.

However, if I add the implant decay & CVT decay together, they all came out to 0.466.

NeoPsion 50A (L)
0.047 Implant decay
0.419 CVT chip decay
====
0.466 PEC decay (implant + chip)

NeoPsion 55
0.009 Implant decay
0.457 CVT chip decay
====
0.466 PEC decay (implant + chip)

So, cost/shot is identical with the 20, 30, 55 and 50A (L) implant, not counting markup on the 50A (L) implant of course.

So, the decay of the CVT chip on Entropedia is wrong, but not sure how to correct it since the decay varies depending on which implant is being used. It seems to be correct as long as you don't select an implant. If you select an implant then it adds the implant decay to the 0.466 making it higher than it should be.

For example, if I select the NeoPsion 55 implant, then it shows a decay of 0.475 (0.466 + 0.009), which is incorrect.

Conclusion

If using a UL attack chip, then it doesn't really matter if you use a 50A (L) implant or any UL one. The eco seems to be the same for both other than the tiny amount of markup you might have to pay on the (L) implant itself and insertion costs. Testing of other (L) implants is needed to see if the results are the same across all (L) implants.

The benefit of an (L) implant seems to be with using high markup (L) chips, like the higher-end Arsonistic chips, where you can get more uses out of them.

Not sure how Entropedia can be modified to show the decay of a chip (without implant) since the decay varies.

Hope this information is helpful to the community.

I hope no-one has edited Entropedia based on this because I don't think you've understood how mindforce decay works.

The implant does not have its own decay value. The amount decays is based on the decay of the chip used, so it will vary using different chips. The decay listed on Entropedia should be the total of the chip and implant decay, since the implant absorbs some of the decay (with different amounts on different chips).

If you use the same chip with two different implants, the decay of chip+implant combined will always be the same. This is the figure that should be on Entropedia, so 0.466 for the Corrosive TEN is correct.

The implants shouldn't have any decay input on Entropedia as that would mess up calculations.

EDIT: On re-reading, maybe you have understood how the system works but not how Entropedia works. You're not the first - it's confusing for mindforce.

Oleg said:

I hope no-one has edited Entropedia based on this because I don't think you've understood how mindforce decay works.

Click to expand...

Seems I did not. I undid the changes I made. Thanks for pointing it out.

I don't understand it either and I am almost lvl 79 pyro dmg

How does Deterioration work?

Mac said:

I don't understand it either and I am almost lvl 79 pyro dmg

How does Deterioration work?

Click to expand...

I believe I understand now.

The cost/shot is split between the implant & chip by percentage. If the implant has a deterioration value of 2%, then it decays 2% of the cost, while the chip decays 98%. Similarly, if the implant deterioration value is 10%, then it decays 10% of the cost, while the chip decays 90%.

So for the Corrosive V Ten chip I was using for my testing, the cost is 0.466 PEC/shot.

With the 20, 30 & 55 implants, deterioration = 2% = 0.009 decay on the implant & 0.457 decay on the chip.
With the 50A (L) implant, deterioration = 10% = 0.047 decay on implant & 0.419 on chip.

On a side note, there are items that have BOTH own decay AND decay drain (Monrian weapon amps). Those however have durability indicated on them, so if any implant had own decay, I'd expect it to have durability as well.

Deeveon said:

I believe I understand now.

The cost/shot is split between the implant & chip by percentage. If the implant has a deterioration value of 2%, then it decays 2% of the cost, while the chip decays 98%. Similarly, if the implant deterioration value is 10%, then it decays 10% of the cost, while the chip decays 90%.

So for the Corrosive V Ten chip I was using for my testing, the cost is 0.466 PEC/shot.

With the 20, 30 & 55 implants, deterioration = 2% = 0.009 decay on the implant & 0.457 decay on the chip.
With the 50A (L) implant, deterioration = 10% = 0.047 decay on implant & 0.419 on chip.

Click to expand...

So, based on the above, with an the implant with higher deterioration there is less decay on the chip as the implant absorbs the decay that would have gone to the chip?

I'm trying to see the benefit of spending big bucks for something like a Perfected implant, I thought that with some of these adj --- perf implant would be less decay overall, but it doesn't look that way. It looks like your just extending the life of your chip by supplementing the chips tt with that of the implant. Hard to imagine how that is helpful with portable tt's

Mac said:

I'm trying to see the benefit of spending big bucks for something like a Perfected implant, [...] Hard to imagine how that is helpful with portable tt's

Click to expand...

Of course it makes sense only when using (L) chips with crazy markup, like high lvl Arsons.