Info: Cost to train test - Sterling Dragon

Hi folks

Thought I run a check over the time it takes for my Sterling dragon to eat 100 fruit bars and assess the xp gain versus cost.

The test started with the pet at 71280 xp, and I fully fed it.

I took various measurements over the course of the test, but I won't bore you with the data other than the key points.

The metabolic rate is 17.50+36.00 (as running focus passive).
During the test I did 3 x Exotic tricks, each one gives 24xp

Results after 100 bars eaten:

71457 - 71280 = 177 xp gained
Cost 177/100 = 1.77 xp per 1 fruit bar.

However lets split it out

3 x 24 xp exotic tricks cost 10 bars each = 30 bars (at 99% pet focus)

Therefore
100 - 30 = 70 bars used just for passive xp gain
71457 - (24x3) = 71385

71385 - 71280 = 105 xp Passive skill gain (i.e. with it just spawned)

Therefore the cost to run the pet spawned:
105 xp / 70 bars = 1.5 xp per 1 fruit bar eaten

Now for the exotic trick

3 x 24xp tricks = 72 xp
3 x 10 bars per trick = 30 fruit bars

72 / 30 = 2.4 xp per 1 fruit bar eaten

Conclusions:

It's obviously cheaper to do tricks, store it and wait for full focus. However this will take you forever to train it. I've not tested it yet with no focus passive running while it's spawned. I will do those checks.

It's interesting though the cost to train these pets.

Lets have a rough guess, assuming I've always had the exotic trick available. (easier to calc)

177 xp gained for 100 bars
30 bars for 3 exotic tricks 72 xp
70 bars for 105 xp

72/177 = 40.68%
105/177 = 59.32%

Therefore:

Total current xp 71385 x 40.68% = 29039 xp for tricks.
71385 x 59.32% = 42345 passive skills gain

Cost of bars:

29039 / 24 xp per trick = 1210 tricks x 10 bars 12100 bars for tricks (or 2.4 xp per bar)
42345 / 1.5 = 28230 bars for passive skill gain (just spawned standing there).

Total bars: 28230 +12100 = 54445 bars.

1000 bars = 10 ped TT
With MU say 225%, then 1000 bars = 22.5 ped

54445 / 1000 = 54.445

54.445 x 22.5 ped = 1225 ped rough cost to date on this pet.

Mmmmmmmm....ok then

Hope helpful

Rick

Some points to note:

I'm level 51.5+ Pet handler. I do not know if skills effect speed of focus gain or anything else etc,
I've only 'heard' that skill enables you to unlock tricks and possibly use them (but my skill has not been that low to see this for myself).

I only trick my pet at 99% focus with the highest trick and WAIT again for 99% to return.

Some people trick there pets multiple times until they used up all the focus. This is costly, you will get less xp per trick, the lower the focus drops.

I wrote another thread some time ago about cost per trick is more eco with bigger tricks.
I have feeling that MA tweaks with pets a lot, so I will do a measure/cost per trick shortly and update this thread with that cost for this particular pet.

Here's the bugger, just ticked over to level 23



It fully unlocks at Level 27 = 99190 xp (The level formula is in another thread)
Xp required to unlock is 99190 - 71620 = 21570 to go

27570 / 1.77 = 15576 bars to go.

(15576/1000) x 22.5 ped =350.46 ped cost to go. Not so bad...lol

I guess around 1600 peds cost to train it just for food.


Cheers

Rick

RickEngland said:

Some people trick there pets multiple times until they used up all the focus. This is costly, you will get less xp per trick, the lower the focus drops.

Click to expand...

Now that I recently acquired two of the most expensive/rare pets in game (boxer and oratan axe) I may start doing the 99% thing. Up til now I was always tricking them down to 90%, which is usually 3-5 tricks with dance before they are down there or 1 trick with some of the more advanced tricks like one arm pushup. Not sure which way is the best, but the 99% may be the cheapest if the numbers are right.

mastermesh said:

Now that I recently acquired two of the most expensive/rare pets in game (boxer and oratan axe) I may start doing the 99% thing. Up til now I was always tricking them down to 90%, which is usually 3-5 tricks with dance before they are down there or 1 trick with some of the more advanced tricks like one arm pushup. Not sure which way is the best, but the 99% may be the cheapest if the numbers are right.

Click to expand...

I'm running some checks right now, but waiting for focus is taking a long while. I will test 100%, 99% 95% and update when it's done.

I suspect 'skill' makes a difference, to what I've seen so far. Give me a few more hours, and I'll update. Then compare with your skills at focus percentages. Skill will matter more with rare "hard" to train pets. "Easy" pets can take lower focus. Although as I've mentioned; what works for me, might not work for you.

Rick

hi there,
we are talking about cost to train a pet here, so, maybe an error accured doing maths after the use of Permanent Buff ACTIVE on the pet; if you do so, these calculation are not accurate; you should give a VALUE to the "REDUCTION TIME of Training" occured using Pet Focus, Rick.

You should consider who TIME is money for MA and for us also, eheh;
.....basically, imo, you lost around 300/400PED due the use of pet focus ACTIVE and you earned 1 or 2 months for the same reason; so... should be take in consideration if the use (or not ) of unlocked permanent buffs is important, relatively to what are you going to do with the pet (example: if going to sell fast, if going to unlock other buffs faster, if saving peds for hunting, and so on); just imo.


Risen

I mean who making tricks under 90%Focus imply 300/600 nutrio total lost (example for explain the weights of numbers) = 8/14PED compared to 400PED training using PetFocus active, but in this case you saved a lot of time.

Risen Ra Oh said:

hi there,
we are talking about cost to train a pet here, so, maybe an error accured doing maths after the use of Permanent Buff ACTIVE on the pet; if you do so, these calculation are not accurate; you should give a VALUE to the "REDUCTION TIME of Training" occured using Pet Focus, Rick.

You should consider who TIME is money for MA and for us also, eheh;
.....basically, imo, you lost around 300/400PED due the use of pet focus ACTIVE and you earned 1 or 2 months for the same reason; so... should be take in consideration if the use (or not ) of unlocked permanent buffs is important, relatively to what are you going to do with the pet (example: if going to sell fast, if going to unlock other buffs faster, if saving peds for hunting, and so on); just imo.


Risen

Click to expand...

I absolutely agree.

There's certainly more variables. Someone told me focus buff from stable doesn't add to cost of bars consumed. I'm yet to test that personally, rather than running a passive. There's a big question there, would the costs of stable focus buff be less than a pet focus passive?

Sure; I'd likely have far less passive bar burn if not using the focus passive, although as you say it would've added more months to train it.

I had to take "rough" guide to "overall" cost. The focus didn't unlock until level 6, and I would've been running lower tricks that cost more when it was level 1+

I was trying to work out if tricks are more cost effective than passive xp gain (i.e spawned xp gain).

Another test is afk mode. I know pets gain loads more xp when you ava goes into afk mode, but when your ava does go afk, the pet eats a ton of bars as well. I don't know yet the science behind the cost of that.

Rick

edit: what I do know and will prove shortly, is higher tricks give more xp for the cost of bars

I think I understand what you're getting at Risen.

If running a focus passive, why bother waiting for higher tricks if the passive burn is 1.5 xp per 1 fruit bar.

There was talk a year+ ago that "dance" was the best trick for speed training. ok sure this give 1.7 xp per 1 fruit bar (on this pet running focus passive), better than the passive gain of 1.5

However rollover appears to be the best of all. It gives 2.4+ xp per 1 fruit bar. It's not worth waiting for higher tricks, burning passive with minimal extra gain (on a bars per xp basis). Plus it doesn't take too long to wait for Rollover.

Maybe it's swings and roundabouts Risen????????

We need more people to do tests at lower pet handler levels. For me I think after 3 years I'm going to drop using exotic trick and switch to rollover. I see no real benefit. Maybe skills matter?

I still think 99% focus is the best to do tricks, because doing tricks lower pushes the focus back even further. Not to mention xp losses.

This took me a few hours, here's my focus test (on a Sterling dragon, hard pet).



Rick

Have you figured in the amount of skill for your avatar? I would hypothesize that you get more pet skill doing tricks, per food spent rather than passively, but the amount of food 'wasted' on skilling passively may be contributed directly to the skill of your avatar, rather than the pet. I see most 'green skill lines' during passive skilling and rarely, if ever, see avatar skill gained by doing tricks, even spamming tricks by consecutively spawning ~10 pets in a row.

bard119 said:

Have you figured in the amount of skill for your avatar? I would hypothesize that you get more pet skill doing tricks, per food spent rather than passively, but the amount of food 'wasted' on skilling passively may be contributed directly to the skill of your avatar, rather than the pet. I see most 'green skill lines' during passive skilling and rarely, if ever, see avatar skill gained by doing tricks, even spamming tricks by consecutively spawning ~10 pets in a row.

Click to expand...

Hi bard.

I hardly get any skill gain training pets, I only get skill taming. This happened even at Level 30 (now 50+)
Doing tricks at lower focus can tigger skill though. Maybe there's a balance to be found doing a low trick with lower focus.

It's always worried me though that we could be paying for skill using 225% fruit bars. Not the most eco ways of getting skills.

I've also not seen a difference between how much xp a pet gains per trick regardless of skill level. I've been monitoring this for a while. I very much doubt MA would charge less for skill.

I think skill will allow you to push the focus barrier down and still gain good xp. But pet trick cost is static for the pet not the ava.

Sure; When I log in I will trick a good 10 to 20 pets, sometimes that might trigger a skill gain.

If you want a lot of skill; then tame 10's thousands of pets and dump them to the stable. You will add levels super fast.

Rick

RickEngland said:

Hi folks
...

1000 bars = 10 ped TT
With MU say 225%, then 1000 bars = 25 ped

Rick

Click to expand...

wizz said:

Click to expand...

Thanks. My eyes are burning.

I'll adjust those calcs to 22.5 ped for 1000 bars.

Nice spot cheers

Rick

That's some really interesting stats you have there, but for myself, I would find more relevant what cost per point of xp you're getting per unit of time (let's say per hour).

Because yeah, apparently you get a better deal when doing more expensive tricks (like rollover), but then the XP drops lower than in the case of dance and while you wait for it to get back to 99%/100% you'll get the base XP (1.5 XP / fruit) so overall you may end up spending more than doing just dance 'till you drop to 98%, then you only have to wait a bit 'till back at 99%/100% and you can trick again.

So, what I would suggest testing, is to start at 100% focus, do one trick 'till lower than 99%, wait 'till you're back to 100%, do same trick again, rinse and repeat for one hour (or x hours straight) then see what's your average XP gain for fruit. Then repeat for all the other tricks.

DoA said:

That's some really interesting stats you have there, but for myself, I would find more relevant what cost per point of xp you're getting per unit of time (let's say per hour).

Click to expand...

Indeed; part of the reason was to test if "exotic" trick had value. Sure 24 points is a nice gain. Focus does increase faster at low levels then slows down quite dramatically from 95%+

I might try doing lower level tricks for a while.

However here's something I think is rather interesting. I have noticed with more skill that the time it took to get from 98-99% or 99% - 100% is actually reduced, since say a year ago.

But I don't know if that's me with another 10 - 20 levels of pet handler gain, or MA tweaking with pets (or if I'm imagining things).

I did see you was offering a pet training service. It's hard to assess that. Pets take an awful long time to train. Especially the hard ones. Literally months. I've put a good 3 years of my life into it (4% of my life if I live to 70...lol).

The re-sale of trained pets is not great either, and the skill gain earned "handling" is pretty pathetic. Personally I wouldn't waste my time on this sort of business. Train a pet for yourself. I guess if you're happy and can make a few ped give it a go......it's very boring though....lol.

I do it for fun, although I'm not a fan of Planet partners giving away trained pets as prizes (Arkadia started that). It's a kick in the teeth, watching paint dry for years, hoping for more pet content.

Rick

RickEngland said:

I did see you was offering a pet training service. It's hard to assess that. Pets take an awful long time to train. Especially the hard ones. Literally months. I've put a good 3 years of my life into it (4% of my life if I live to 70...lol).

The re-sale of trained pets is not great either, and the skill gain earned "handling" is pretty pathetic. Personally I wouldn't waste my time on this sort of business. Train a pet for yourself. I guess if you're happy and can make a few ped give it a go......it's very boring though....lol.

I do it for fun, although I'm not a fan of Planet partners giving away trained pets as prizes (Arkadia started that). It's a kick in the teeth, watching paint dry for years, hoping for more pet content.

Click to expand...

Well...

I can't afford to level my own pet; I'm (pretty much) a free player, so I simply can't afford the cost to keep my own pets up (although I do have all three doggies, just because I'm a dogs lover).

I don't see it as a waste of time or as an effort... I play anyway, I just keep the customer's pet up (if any customer) and do tricks when pet is at 100%; that doesn't take away from my other activities.

So, as far as I see it, for me is both free money and (to a very low degree) free skills; for the customer is the advantage of having a (second) pet leveled without him having to worry about (or if they don't play for many hours).

DoA said:

Well...

I can't afford to level my own pet; I'm (pretty much) a free player, so I simply can't afford the cost to keep my own pets up (although I do have all three doggies, just because I'm a dogs lover).

I don't see it as a waste of time or as an effort... I play anyway, I just keep the customer's pet up (if any customer) and do tricks when pet is at 100%; that doesn't take away from my other activities.

So, as far as I see it, for me is both free money and (to a very low degree) free skills; for the customer is the advantage of having a (second) pet leveled without him having to worry about (or if they don't play for many hours).

Click to expand...

Well a low level pet wont cost much to skill at all.

The coolest low level pet is hogglo pygmy. It's only 400 bars fully fed. Way over rated for rarity, but hey that's EU for you. It's got a metabolic rate of just 10.00 so wont be hungry at all, unless you activate the focus passive at Level 7.

Basically it's a baby bristlehog in Hogglo skin.....LOL.

edit: to put that into prospective an Atrox is 600 bars fully fed, with a meto rate of 15.00
So the hog is a true a baby punie type pet. The Atrox is 50% more to train than the hog.


I've always assumed (and I might have guessed wrong), that you're the daughter of one of the ubers. If that's the case getting some sweetstuff for next to nothing won't cost you much. Then add to that some fruits you can get for free walking treasure island, and you're sorted. You get to train a cool pet for yourself.

I'm sure you can pick up a cheap hog.

Anyway enjoy training your customers pets.

Rick

RickEngland said:

Well a low level pet wont cost much to skill at all.

The coolest low level pet is hogglo pygmy. It's only 400 bars fully fed. Way over rated for rarity, but hey that's EU for you. It's got a metabolic rate of just 10.00 so wont be hungry at all, unless you activate the focus passive at Level 7.

Basically it's a baby bristlehog in Hogglo skin.....LOL.

edit: to put that into prospective an Atrox is 600 bars fully fed, with a meto rate of 15.00
So the hog is a true a baby punie type pet. The Atrox is 50% more to train than the hog.


I've always assumed (and I might have guessed wrong), that you're the daughter of one of the ubers. If that's the case getting some sweetstuff for next to nothing won't cost you much. Then add to that some fruits you can get for free walking treasure island, and you're sorted. You get to train a cool pet for yourself.

I'm sure you can pick up a cheap hog.

Anyway enjoy training your customers pets.

Rick

Click to expand...

I'm no one's daughter... well, technically I am obviously, but not of someone who plays the game. The avatar name comes from the Sons of Anarchy TV series which I totally loved.

And about pets... as said, I'm into dogs in real life... so obviously, that was my pick here too... also, by not living on Calypso (and never lived there), I'm not much of a fan of Calypso fauna.

Cheapest dog pet is the rover, with 16.00 metabolic rate, cooper is 17.50 and fido is 18.00, so quite expensive.

Anyway thank you for the suggestion and for your wishes.