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  1. #1
    Dominant Pretto Loco's Avatar
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    Is Mindark trying to revive a long lost market economy?

    We all know where most markups has gone, and now with all threads about Loot 2.0 we also know how much skills and high end gear matters. Not as much maybe? And we also know how loot has changed, with lesser sellable stacks of oils and what not. Yea, ofc, miners and crafters still can make what they have always made. But for hunters it is a major change in returns and loots.

    We have also for more than a decade tried to figure out the optimal play style for optimal returns. Not how we should play to get the optimal markup. It's focus has been on playing the single player game of grinding the shit out of some poor mobs in the most optimal way, to maximize our loot.

    Many of you remember the golden days of markups, and how intenselly fun it was to try and get best markup materials. The goal was not to skill gain, but to ped gain, by supplying the market with what was in demand.

    I personally believe that the only purpose of being higher skilled was originally meant to be able to find and craft rarer materials, with higher markups. Not being able to TT profit by using exploitable gear.

    But somewhere down the line over supply of goods crippled the economy completelly.

    Imagine if Mindark has come to the conclusion that a healthy market economy is way better than revenue from a few high end players willing to invest in high end gear, that in the end anyway will bite their revenue ass, because of their effectiveness? And revenue from the insertion of explo crafting as a sollution to deminishing revenue.

    If this is actually the case then dpp, eco, tt% will be less important, replaced by players skilling to be able to find higher markup goods.

    What do you think, can it be an ingame market enhancement move by Mindark?
    If so, then I think we all should help out making that happen. By suggesting ideas to said enhancements.

    So if you have any suggestions how Mindark could achieve such a thing I think that would be great.

    Maybe it is time for a new mindset as a citizen of Entropia
    Entropia was and should foremost be a market economy.

  2. #2
    Mutated
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    levithanikos's Avatar
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    Very nice read, could be part of the actual loot 2.0000000000000000001 system
    I don't remember where I read about , something like more effective way of killing = eligible for a uncomon->rare item drop


    I am selling out soon , so I believe i won't see the EU golden era


    Selling Threads :



  3. #3
    Stalker San's Avatar
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    I think everybody just focuses on the primary producer, the hunter or miner. You are told to "sell your loot for markup" or stfu and quit whining. Well it takes two to argue, two to fuck and two to trade. What about the buyers, why should they pay you a decent price, where is their advantage in turn? Hardly anyone really knows, or cares to know it seems. Auction data deceives by only ever showing successful trades, nobody knows how much more was listed in vain and the fees lost. Economy means cycles, but we only ever look at a section of it.

    It does look as if MA is trying to tackle overabundance. We as participants need to get in the habit of looking at the whole picture more. Those who like to publish elaborate statistics about their returns are only ever at the producer side. If 100k cycled is a benchmark, how does someone do who takes 100k of stuff out of the producers' hands within the same timeframe? If they're reluctant to tell, then it means they have carved out a niche for themselves which is not very scalable and would collapse if every me-too broke into it and did the same.
    1. I NEVER post off-topic.
    2. If you disagree, go to 1.

  4. #4
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    NoBion's Avatar
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    I am not going to be shy about saying this, since i strongly believe it to be true. There's many among this community who have been here for a decade that i would assume to be agreeing with what i will now write.

    There's been a fair share of controversy, like the exit from EMW, the introduction of iron missions that made many old players take a big hit financially. Events that the same people keep winning over and over that finally did tip over into pass hope that things will change. This made players stop playing, and most of all its seen in the declining supply/demand on items in game.

    There's only so much Strongboxes can do for you to boost the economy, Which they've done for a good amount of time. Now that rings become a common thing, the Strongboxes doesent really cover the same space in profits they've done. They're simply now less desired since the items they deliver is much less worth now.

    On top of all this, Loot returns have for a long period been extremely punishing, often returns are 75% or lower. Draining people's ped card AND lust for depositing to only loose them quick again.

    To put even more on top, this punishing loot is the outcome of Rings from strongboxes buffing a good portion of the wealthier playerbase with higher DPP, Items from iron missions that is also not cheap, buffing things even further in DPP. Making the less wealthy players punished for their now obselete gear setups which DPP now only make them loose more than they did before all this gear was implemented, MAINLY through strongboxes that made easy and fast money with items that people strongly wanted due to what they could do to boost their economy in hunting (which was compensated by turning loot down by mindark). ITS A BUSINESS.

    INDEED IT WAS TIME FOR A CHANGE - LOOT 2.0

    This is the outcome given to us, to put things back in shape... This is what they should have done for years ago. Why they're suddenly handing out better returns and lower decay etc. etc. etc.??? They do this because too many are leaving the game after all this B.S.

    This is coming from someone who deeply love Entropia and have for a very long time... But i am not a fool. Loot 2.0 is what we should've had for a long time. its less profits but hopefully a lower more stabile one. Making the lesser man get more for his money before he looses it, instead of taking it out of his hands before he even got the chance to adore it...

    Loot 2.0 is a buffet of improvements that will make people turn 180° by giving them back hope and motivation since they now know that they have a chance, that their money is better spent and last longer than they did Pre-Loot 2.0.

    The high end player sitting on the best gear that before got all the cream on the top have gotten a worse experience (aka. return). This is the compromise to give the majority (mainly newer generation players) a fair place in the Entropia Universe. We're so much closer to a fair distrubution on all levels in game than ever before. The compromise is that thoose who sat in the best positions before dislike this change and even some decide to quit.

    All worth it to me.
    Last edited by NoBion; 07-14-2017 at 22:05.


    See my youtube profile for EU videos
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypkT...i7uOQ&index=19
    (Click my profile at this video for more!)

    Check out my Entropia style music tracks here: (Might have to scroll down a little)
    https://soundcloud.com/nobion-nobion/tracks


  5. #5
    Old Alpha DoA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretto Loco View Post
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    I personally believe that the only purpose of being higher skilled was originally meant to be able to find and craft rarer materials, with higher markups. Not being able to TT profit by using exploitable gear.
    Awesome post! Really!

    I have exposed the very same idea, but you definitely expressed it way better than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoA View Post
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    You can always use some lower damage gear and scale down on lower mobs if you find out that those have the potential to deliver better markup. No punishment in doing so.

    On the other hand, a lower level player doesn't have the option to easily go up and hunt a higher level mob if he finds out that those have the potential to deliver better markup.

    Here's where your advantage resides. Now sure, if you want to ignore it and want to just play at your max level, hunting only the biggest mobs that's your problem alone. Not mine. Not MA's.
    “If you can't fly then run, if you can't run then walk, if you can't walk then crawl, but whatever you do, keep moving forward.”

  6. #6
    Marauder Mac's Avatar
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    Skills matter.

    Skills allow me to do what I like to do every day, the more I skill, the more fun I have.

    I chipped out and I rebuilt. I can tell you I much prefer running a skilled avatar around much more than an unskilled one. I will never chip out again.

    I will continue to skill
    > For Sale: Stuff <




  7. #7

  8. #8
    Slayer GoNi's Avatar
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    To have markup we need crafting
    To have crafting we need items form crafting that are competitive to the looted gear
    To have a market for L items (no matter if crafted or looted), we need a lot less UL Sib (well to late, UL Sib already exists and still more is dropped by MA/PP)

    The only way to bring MU back is to fix crafting.
    Fix crafting does not mean remove Explo BP, what many Nobrainers want.
    Fix crafting means creating a market for crafted gear, speak make crafted items competitive.

    Now look what we have in crafting:

    Many BPs canīt be crafted at all, as it uses generic components, that no longer drop (Aspis f.e.)
    FAP crafting completely dead - low levels use gidted S10 instead crafted, mid levels use Mod2350/2600, high levels use Imp/Mod nothing comparable crafted L with that awesome eco.
    Armor crafting, only high end really sellable, all lower level crafted armors not competitive to the tons of armors coming from missions/hunting.

    When MA introduced L, I had a dream that EU would become a crafting driven economy.
    This dream died the moment MA started to drop UL Sib (remember first drop Korss400 UL) and then the flood of UL Sib for all levels, making all crafted L obsolete.
    That was the real deadshot for crafting and so the ingame economy.

    Without a crafting driven economy no good MU possible!

  9. #9
    Stalker KyrismaStarsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProActive Mango View Post
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    i love it, i neeeed more of it!
    Whoa, flashback to basic training right there.
    Most things wrong in life start by forgetting what's right.

  10. #10
    Prowler Lefty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoNi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    To have markup we need crafting
    To have crafting we need items form crafting that are competitive to the looted gear
    To have a market for L items (no matter if crafted or looted), we need a lot less UL Sib (well to late, UL Sib already exists and still more is dropped by MA/PP)

    The only way to bring MU back is to fix crafting.
    Fix crafting does not mean remove Explo BP, what many Nobrainers want.
    Fix crafting means creating a market for crafted gear, speak make crafted items competitive.

    Now look what we have in crafting:

    Many BPs canīt be crafted at all, as it uses generic components, that no longer drop (Aspis f.e.)
    FAP crafting completely dead - low levels use gidted S10 instead crafted, mid levels use Mod2350/2600, high levels use Imp/Mod nothing comparable crafted L with that awesome eco.
    Armor crafting, only high end really sellable, all lower level crafted armors not competitive to the tons of armors coming from missions/hunting.

    When MA introduced L, I had a dream that EU would become a crafting driven economy.
    This dream died the moment MA started to drop UL Sib (remember first drop Korss400 UL) and then the flood of UL Sib for all levels, making all crafted L obsolete.
    That was the real deadshot for crafting and so the ingame economy.

    Without a crafting driven economy no good MU possible!
    No. To have markup, we need loots that have added entertainment value over their cash value, to create a reason to want to use them. Whether those loots come from hunting, mining, crafting, or all 3, is a lot less relevant. But, to have crafting, you need crafting.
    .... just one man's opinion

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