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Economic latency

Acro

Acro

Self-requested Deactivation
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Acronoid

Normally during summers; things become cheaper. Added to this is the loot 2.0 that sets the end of the eco era.
Yet prices on low and middle end eco gear don't seem to go down at all. A10x amps, ares rings... seem to even go up a little in value since loot 2.0

Now, we have the migration, so it will be interesting to see how the market evolves once it is over.
I'm sure a lot of the the gear is in the hands of re-sellers, and other people that want to get rid of them.


I wonder if the beginning of August will be MU drop; or maybe even later. And how much the market will drop.

What I suspect is that MA aims at a certain MU % that makes it easier and more attractive for new players to join and play. If that is the case and they want to reestablish the market at a lower point it is totally unavoidable.

In theory it would create the opportunity to sell items now at a current price and later buy it back at a lower price.
This is a rare economical event. And it actually goes against the summer sale/autumn buy trend.
I wonder if MA chose the timing on purpose, to create the biggest effect as possible.

Any way, this seems to be an interesting economical time. It might hurt the resellers, it might hurt the ones making profit in hunting; but it is interesting to see where it will lead to.
 
the super eco stuff drops heavily in value, like EST sets for example. before loot 2.0 you could buy EST sets for roughly 3000% and now they go for 1000%. also the high end rings and gear dropped a lot in value as super high eco is not useful / necessary anymore as the upper eco cap got lowered a lot.
this also means that the normal end gear, that was too uneco before loot 2.0 is more useful / not as bad as before now rises a bit in value due to higher demand.
 
Just play the game. Those that were not logging in through this 2.0 mess will still pay what they used to when they start logging in again closer to Merry Mayhem.

(those selling out now will be flaming the forums soon enough when loot 3.0 tips the balance back to the way it used to be. Mindark's always moving the carrot dangling in front of you.)
 
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As mentioned in previous post, highend stuff gets a lot cheaper. There is zero point having 150k-300k gear to gain 1-2% more sharpnel in TT returns.

For MA, Perfect Ares is worth 10 PED TT, rest is just player created fluff. With loot 2.0, that Perf Ares comes more in line with actual benefits, more crits/faster shooting, but return wise it adds almost nothing. So profit generator now generates 0.5-1%? more TT return that has 0.5% MU.

If you cycle 100k/month, you will get +1k PED TT return and +50 PED more markup. With amazing volatility of the loot, this could be lost in system and your actual gains are 0. Is the item worth 25-30k pricetag now?
 
NPV said:
As mentioned in previous post, highend stuff gets a lot cheaper. There is zero point having 150k-300k gear to gain 1-2% more sharpnel in TT returns.

For MA, Perfect Ares is worth 10 PED TT, rest is just player created fluff. With loot 2.0, that Perf Ares comes more in line with actual benefits, more crits/faster shooting, but return wise it adds almost nothing. So profit generator now generates 0.5-1%? more TT return that has 0.5% MU.

If you cycle 100k/month, you will get +1k PED TT return and +50 PED more markup. With amazing volatility of the loot, this could be lost in system and your actual gains are 0. Is the item worth 25-30k pricetag now?
Click to expand...

Fascinating facts, thanks for clearing that up :)
 
NPV said:
As mentioned in previous post, highend stuff gets a lot cheaper. There is zero point having 150k-300k gear to gain 1-2% more sharpnel in TT returns.

For MA, Perfect Ares is worth 10 PED TT, rest is just player created fluff. With loot 2.0, that Perf Ares comes more in line with actual benefits, more crits/faster shooting, but return wise it adds almost nothing. So profit generator now generates 0.5-1%? more TT return that has 0.5% MU.

If you cycle 100k/month, you will get +1k PED TT return and +50 PED more markup. With amazing volatility of the loot, this could be lost in system and your actual gains are 0. Is the item worth 25-30k pricetag now?
Click to expand...

But if you use 100k/month and get 1-2k TT more, volatility or not, its still 1-2k more than you would have got, other options at 100+ are low eco guns where you lose 3-4k compare to the Uber gear or (L) which you pay 110-125% mu. i agree UL guns are over inflated but demand is there, they do appear to be selling

Rings were always overpriced, there were in a very weak bubble ready to pop with decay or tweaks. it appears loot 2.0 changed the best rings as focus blow drops, reload climbs but the bubble will continue until decay
 
The Jetman said:
But if you use 100k/month and get 1-2k TT more, volatility or not, its still 1-2k more than you would have got, other options at 100+ are low eco guns where you lose 3-4k compare to the Uber gear or (L) which you pay 110-125% mu. i agree UL guns are over inflated but demand is there, they do appear to be selling

Rings were always overpriced, there were in a very weak bubble ready to pop with decay or tweaks. it appears loot 2.0 changed the best rings as focus blow drops, reload climbs but the bubble will continue until decay
Click to expand...


Not really, the bubble will continue until the market is saturated. Rings are still dropping, although it is slowing down.
The thing with market saturation is that prices stay high until a % is reached, after that they come crashing down really quickly.
The market saturation level will have a bigger impact than the diminished usefulness.

Although I believe that MA wants to make the game cheaper by for new and low skilled players by:
1. leveling the playing field
2. removing huge markup and get rid of an image that you need to have a 1000$ setup to even play the game at low level
3. changing the whole concept more towards missions and entertainment.

The reason is that "uber" players that are profiting may seem like a good way to motivate players to skill up. The real truth is that the redraws from those players really hurt MA's pockets.
It is more lucrative to provide entertainment than trying trying to cater to people who want to "beat the house".
Besides, do you really want to cater to a hardcore group of players who's primary motivation is to beat the house in the first case?

If you view the overarching vision behind the last 7 years; MA management seems to go more into the direction of mainstream MMO's.

So expect MU to drop on almost everything.
Expect exiting new missions (and you have to admit they are kinda fun)
Expect the web-shop to grow and offer new items and packs
 
So if this is the case what's the point in an RCE. There are many other mmo's out there that already play that way and do it better than entropia.
 
krogfan said:
Fascinating facts, thanks for clearing that up :)
Click to expand...

Post some logs to prove me wrong.

MA stated our gear affects our loot by some %. The difference is just so fucking small between 1k and 300k gear, that you might as well lose it to "dynamic" loot.

Check back in 2018 and see if ROI has changed compared to pre 2.0. I for sure would not buy 30k ring atm as it most probably not earn back the cost in reasonable timeframe or you maybe even lose because items gets cheaper at faster rate. Maybe 5% crit and 100% critp is new norm and all today "ubers" are 2019 casuals :)

PS! My totals are 100%+ TT return with ~500 PED setup @500k or so cycled.
 
krogfan said:
Fascinating facts, thanks for clearing that up :)
Click to expand...

NPV said:
Post some logs to prove me wrong.

MA stated our gear affects our loot by some %. The difference is just so fucking small between 1k and 300k gear, that you might as well lose it to "dynamic" loot.


PS! My totals are 100%+ TT return with ~500 PED setup @500k or so cycled.
Click to expand...

When was the last time you tried shooting with 300k gear? Oh wait nevermind, ur ps say u cycle 500k with 500ped gear. Sure this is the "true"statistics and all...

I call this all one big BS. Theory craft is going strong in this universe...
 
duncis said:
When was the last time you tried shooting with 300k gear? Oh wait nevermind, ur ps say u cycle 500k with 500ped gear. Sure this is the "true"statistics and all...

I call this all one big BS. Theory craft is going strong in this universe...
Click to expand...

Whatever you say to justify high price on your items, MA stated what % we are expecting to get and what was changed. If I get 91%@2.9 DPP and you get 98%@3.5DPP, then sure there is difference. But I do not see it, I do not see Smilgs and others in high gear posting such a huge difference compared to very cheap gear.

It's a marginal difference, you just cycle more/skill faster. What comes to returns, 3.0DPP @ 500 PED cost can do same as 3.5DPP@whatever cost. So why invest? To sell laser skills @ 200%? :laugh:

PS! It might be you are not posting logs because you have no deposited a single $ since you bought expensive items? You withraw regulary, sell skills and everything is golden? I can't argue that, I would not post my logs if I had 30k$ in gear and pull that investment out in a year.
 
NPV said:
Whatever you say to justify high price on your items, MA stated what % we are expecting to get and what was changed. If I get 91%@2.9 DPP and you get 98%@3.5DPP, then sure there is difference. But I do not see it, I do not see Smilgs and others in high gear posting such a huge difference compared to very cheap gear.

It's a marginal difference, you just cycle more/skill faster. What comes to returns, 3.0DPP @ 500 PED cost can do same as 3.5DPP@whatever cost. So why invest? To sell laser skills @ 200%? :laugh:

PS! It might be you are not posting logs because you have no deposited a single $ since you bought expensive items? You withraw regulary, sell skills and everything is golden? I can't argue that, I would not post my logs if I had 30k$ in gear and pull that investment out in a year.
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Dirst ir vieglāk ja bikses novelk


Ignorance is a bliss right?
Check my signature retard!
 
NPV said:
Whatever you say to justify high price on your items, MA stated what % we are expecting to get and what was changed. If I get 91%@2.9 DPP and you get 98%@3.5DPP, then sure there is difference. But I do not see it, I do not see Smilgs and others in high gear posting such a huge difference compared to very cheap gear.
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Soko and Vodka have posted hunting returns with over 100% TT return.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
Soko and Vodka have posted hunting returns with over 100% TT return, as the avg from MA stats was 95%-97%, they are getting that difference you have not seen yet. Girts has some nice gear but is nowhere near Soko and Vodka's crit buff items. Hulk's posted returns that back up what you are saying. At present, we've had 4 elite players - maybe more I have missed like $5 - publish returns post 2.0 and two show 100%+ and two don't, so we forum onlookers can't conclude anything for certain.
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Girts also shoots 50 ped mobs for whatever the fuck reason, so best not to look at his returns.

$5 was around 99.5% TT for loot 2.0.

Hulk hops around a bit and frequently shoots big mobs as well and without pre-loot 2.0 returns we have no idea what his longterm cycle is. he could've been 106% prior to loot 2.0 and around 101% combined with loot 2.0 returns.. we just don't know.

As for the OP's argument, items will never decrease in value where there are buyers. similarly items will never decrease in value when the holders of such items work together to either jackup or maintain prices. Truth be told, we dont have enough info right now to do anything. maybe 6 months from now we'll know how buffs and dpp actually affect loot returns. but IMO buying anything right now at market value is a horrible idea. similarly, selling your high end shit now is a smart play in case it truly is nerfed and values crash in a few months (which is likely given the large supply of high-end gear and lack of buyers).
 
Still over 100. I just stopped because i recognize hunting is currently -ev proposition for me atm with my style.

Also i hate the hunting profession.. always have. Anddddddd all 3 controllers i was using have broken.
 
duncis said:
Dirst ir vieglāk ja bikses novelk


Ignorance is a bliss right?
Check my signature retard!
Click to expand...

I never got past the first page of your website, when it was announced. I uninstalled Netscape a while back and I really can't read pages from that era.

Calling me a retard:wtg:
 

It seems forum sales slowly start to reflect the changed economy. I wonder how long it will take until it is reflected in-game.
 
I was worried right after 2.0 came out, but so far, since migration began, and after finishing LT Iron, doing entire Eomon Silver, and should finish LT Bronze tonight, and start on LT Silver, I'm pretty happy with my Mod Merc right now. Especially after nights like last night. It's been up and down, but thankfully, I don't have any reason to be having a fire sale because of loot. I have efficiency and dps, my t10 scales well, I am pretty happy :handgun:

Now all I need is a nice item drop and ATH :laugh:
 
The problem with the game is that it is trying to be balanced and due to it's "addictive" real cash economy HOF / Global system, this tends to destabilize the balance.

I am seeing it with mining, if there is a sufficient surplus of a particular resource or class of resource, that resource will cease to spawn. Amplifiers make this issue worse.

I wish Mindark would just clarify how the economy is supposed to work, with all the faucets and sinks listed.
 
R4tt3xx said:
The problem with the game is that it is trying to be balanced and due to it's "addictive" real cash economy HOF / Global system, this tends to destabilize the balance.

I am seeing it with mining, if there is a sufficient surplus of a particular resource or class of resource, that resource will cease to spawn. Amplifiers make this issue worse.

I wish Mindark would just clarify how the economy is supposed to work, with all the faucets and sinks listed.
Click to expand...

OR they keep it this way and ppl stop wanting to have an explaination for every single micro-bit...and play for fun or also like they would on another monthly -paying -fee-game...

if they would open everything...the game would be down in a second sadly.....we have players from all oover the world here...and some are also sadly only going for open exploits..or how they can squeeze everything out of something...they would use this answers to work on "cheats" etc to gain an advantage..... (saw this in other games to with goldfarmers,house farmers,exchanging items etc..)

SO...the more secret..the longer life for EU...:cool:
 
Edward-James said:
OR they keep it this way and ppl stop wanting to have an explaination for every single micro-bit...and play for fun or also like they would on another monthly -paying -fee-game...

if they would open everything...the game would be down in a second sadly.....we have players from all oover the world here...and some are also sadly only going for open exploits..or how they can squeeze everything out of something...they would use this answers to work on "cheats" etc to gain an advantage..... (saw this in other games to with goldfarmers,house farmers,exchanging items etc..)

SO...the more secret..the longer life for EU...:cool:
Click to expand...

The difference between this and a proper monthly sub mmo is that the sub mmo, one does not have to have currency to progress, EU does !!
 
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