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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me Really Never View Post
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    its nice n all but bitcoin is far away from decentralization. there are less than a handfull big server farms and if they shut down bitcoin drops by 30% or more, as has happened in the past and until all the transactions are handled it may take days and horrendous fees. fact is bitcoin is bullcrap.
    Cloud computing, as I assume you are mentioning with server farms, is not really what I consider a problem. Network difficulty makes that a requirement at some point. Ethereum, for example, has that baked into their code. At some point, consumer hardware cannot keep up making farms requirement. This does not make it bullcrap. The fees will just be a proportion to their value since it is a bitcoin amount. Whether you like bitcoin or not, is just subjective.

  2. #32
    Prowler xXSqUaLLXx's Avatar
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    Being multimillionar is a good feeling indeed
    So much money to invest in the new startup and technologies of tomorrow !
    (not a "deeptoken" from MindArk tho, very unlikely)

    Did you know that the whole capitalisation of all cryptos is not even as big as facebook valuation ?

    It's a very small market still, even if big players start to get in.

    Bitcoin is just one part of it, but be sure that given ten years, the total capitalisation of all crypto will go x10000 from here, and cryptos will be an industry where most money flow in the end, in my opinion.
    now how much % will bitcoin be from the whole cap, who knows, but it won't be going away either.

    To answer the op :

    I own both Btc & Eth, along a loads of other coins, some being more shit coin than others, and some being unicorns in the making.

    I like bittrex / poloniex / Etherdelta / Binance generally. But used many more, and also some that vanished now. The above mentionned are pretty fine for everything.

    I have nano ledgers which are convenients, hardware wallet are cool, I also stake some coin (mining)

    About explanation of blockchain cryptos and everything, I guess I just wanted to learn and learn more, which is something that keeps evolving, so you never really stop learning stuff anyway.
    I started at the highest point of the "2013 bubble" 4 years ago now and my first btc purchase was at 900$ (2 years later the low was 200$ btw ).
    Last edited by xXSqUaLLXx; 12-08-2017 at 18:28.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXSqUaLLXx View Post
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    Being multimillionar is a good feeling indeed
    So much money to invest in the new startup and technologies of tomorrow !
    (not a "deeptoken" from MindArk tho, very unlikely)

    Did you know that the whole capitalisation of all cryptos is not even as big as facebook valuation ?

    It's a very small market still, even if big players start to get in.


    Bitcoin is just one part of it, but be sure that given ten years, the total capitalisation of all crypto will go x10000 from here, and cryptos will be an industry where most money flow in the end, in my opinion.
    now how much % will bitcoin be from the whole cap, who knows, but it won't be going away either.
    This is why I do not think it is a bubble. It is still too far under the radar right now. Too many people don't know how to get in. The fact that coinbase has made it available to more people (100k accounts for example) and the price spiking is evident of that.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    Cloud computing, as I assume you are mentioning with server farms, is not really what I consider a problem. Network difficulty makes that a requirement at some point. Ethereum, for example, has that baked into their code. At some point, consumer hardware cannot keep up making farms requirement. This does not make it bullcrap. The fees will just be a proportion to their value since it is a bitcoin amount. Whether you like bitcoin or not, is just subjective.
    the thing is bitcoin is hardly worth it anymore to be mined. and guess what happens if the big farms decide to rather go for bitcoin cash because its easier to mine and more profitable? they switch. it has happened for a bit a few weeks back and the price of btc plummeted. this will happen again as bitcoin is on is basically reaching its maximum user capacity.
    when the big farms switch the transaction time will be days, if not weeks with several hundred dollars in transaction fees. you can see how fast bitcoin dies away after that

    and i havent seen a single rational reason for why bitcoin would be better than most other main cryptos on the market

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    Blockchain technology, while has been used in bitcoin for some years, is not technically old as you lead on. It is actually considered relatively new and spreading across multiple industries, healthcare being one of them. The first few years of any good technology requires vetting. Is bitcoin speculative? Yes. So is gold, silver, oil, cattle futures, who wins a sports game - any commodity.. anything that is invest-able by definition. Is it a bubble? Right now, not really - part of the gains of bitcoin specifically is because of adoption, particular governments adding it to their portfolio, and interest in it because of visibility in it. Shorter supply with extreme demand will cause volatile spikes - cryptocurrencies will be prone to this volatility. The spike to $12,000 was caused by 100,000 accounts added to Coinbase. That's all it took.
    What I do not fully understand about bitcoins is why would anyone want to use them other than just to buy them? Meaning that every time you would use them you in turn would be loosing money since it seems that the value of bitcoins are just going up every day. That there is where I do see the bubble. As with gold it will always have a value and will not disappear overnight due to the simple fact is that all bitcoins are is computer bits.

    Bitcoins do remind me of the current state of the USD being that both really have no base value as the USD is no longer based on gold.

    Interesting times.
    Last edited by OZtwo; 12-08-2017 at 18:43.

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  6. #36
    Prowler xXSqUaLLXx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZtwo View Post
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    What I do not fully understand about bitcoins is why would anyone want to use them other than just to buy them? Meaning that every time you would use them you in turn would be loosing money since it seems that the value of bitcoins are just going up every day. That there is where I do see the bubble. As with gold it will always have a value and will not disappear overnight due to the simple fact is that all bitcoins are is computer bits.

    Bitcoins do remind me of the current state of the USD being that both really have no base value as the USD is no longer based on gold.

    Interesting times.
    Most of the gold people own is "paper gold" btw, not actually physical, a bit like the peds you have on your ped cards, or the dollars you have on your real life account which are just "bits".
    bitcoin is actually backed up by an industry, it's called mining.
    Btc does exist and has an instrinsic value in a way, and when you own bitcoin, it means you own a private key to them which is really real and no one can take it away from you.

    Gold has a value because human decided it has value, a concensus created by human, same thing is happening with things like btc.

    Gold is inflationnary, not transparent, a bad store of value if we want to do the devil advocate and compare it to btc.
    While bitcoin is deflationnary, is storable and spendable easily too, and obviously much more transparent.

    The same point about btc you make can be told about gold, why do people buy gold ?
    People like you and me buy it as a store of value, and will not use gold to buy stuff, I mean do you see yourself buying bread with gold in everyday life ?

    No you buy it to preserve wealth, and hoping it increases. And that's pretty much all you can do with it, which you can't say it is the same for btc, if talking about btc alone.


    About spending btc, I have spent loads of btc in the past, i'd rather not have but, it doesn't matter. When I did I was happy to. And If I owned gold and sold it to then spend it, the same would apply.

    But btc at this point is not meant to be used in daily lives anyway, just as gold isn't also, other crypto currencies will do that much better.

    ps: now let's compare gold market vs bitcoin :

    Bitcoin is currently only 250 billion . Gold is a 8 trillion market. It is understandable that btc is that volatile when you have such a young market with a deflationnary currency that can do interesting thing, so in order to be less volatile it must also grow much more in my opinion.

    We are also in a crazy times right now, futures trading is starting on traditionnal exchange, the two worlds biggest exchange in a few days from now.

    Institutional money is jumping in, no one close eyes anymore on blockchain technology and especially btc / eth and few others getting interest with great usage possible on short / long term.
    Obviously we are in a manic cycle also. Btc will go up, and down, and then more up and down, until eventually it stabilizes.
    In the end, people must diversify their assets, that it's gold / real estate / btc or whatever, you eventually don't keep all eggs in the same baskets it wouldn't be sane.

    Also to finish with the gold arguments : If tomorrow there is an apocalypse, and you happen to actually own physical gold, or only bitcoin private key, those will be the last thing anyone needs at this point. And both would be worth shit either way, it would be the last of anyone problems.
    Last edited by xXSqUaLLXx; 12-08-2017 at 19:23.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXSqUaLLXx View Post
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    Most of the gold people own is "paper gold" btw, not actually physical, a bit like the peds you have on your ped cards, or the dollars you have on your real life account which are just "bits".
    Yes, I pointed this out and why we will see some interesting times ahead over this issue since really no one owes anyone anything since the USD value is more or less 0 now. (yes yes yes).

    Quote Originally Posted by xXSqUaLLXx View Post
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    No you buy it to preserve wealth, and hoping it increases. And that's pretty much all you can do with it, which you can't say it is the same for btc, if talking about btc alone.
    As well, I pointed this out and is exactly why it's a bubble. You are only buying it in hopes others will buy into the idea of nothing and the value will go up?

    Slow down here and think if MA were to think up bitcoins? What if it was ND's idea? Some would call it a big scam.

    Last you say that bitcoins is backed by what? An industry that could go belling up overnight whereas gold will always have some sort of value because it is not a bit. Now please, I'm not backing up Gold here, just using it as a true item example here.

    What is crazy about all this is that MA will make money off their version. All they really need to do is buy some of their own, then wait a bit and sale out. Then if the market crashes they have no issues since they already made their money becomes others bought into nothing.

    And if you want to fight this more, let me post your quote once again:

    Quote Originally Posted by xXSqUaLLXx View Post
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    No you buy it to preserve wealth, and hoping it increases. And that's pretty much all you can do with it, which you can't say it is the same for btc, if talking about btc alone.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me Really Never View Post
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    the thing is bitcoin is hardly worth it anymore to be mined.
    Sadly, this is wrong. It is true that you cannot just plug in those USB miners of old to generate BTC and cheap ASIC crap that you used to, you can still buy hardware just as you can with a GPU rig to mine altcoins. Your statement above is incorrect. There's also more than 1 way to mine or achieve bitcoin acquisition, thus leading your statement to be fairly shortsighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Me Really Never View Post
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    and guess what happens if the big farms decide to rather go for bitcoin cash because its easier to mine and more profitable? they switch. it has happened for a bit a few weeks back and the price of btc plummeted. this will happen again as bitcoin is on is basically reaching its maximum user capacity.
    when the big farms switch the transaction time will be days, if not weeks with several hundred dollars in transaction fees. you can see how fast bitcoin dies away after that
    This single paragraph shows me you do not understand the concept of what happens when a core cryptocurrency forks. If we all decide to jump to bitcoin cash because it is superior, it matters very little because those who have bitcoin have the same amount of bitcoin cash.. and bitcoin gold... and whatever fork occurred. If segwit2x killed bitcoin, it would have mattered little as segwit2x would be the new bitcoin and we would have the same valuation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Me Really Never View Post
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    and i havent seen a single rational reason for why bitcoin would be better than most other main cryptos on the market
    Then you really aren't really doing much value-add research and still have your head in the sand whether intentionally or unintentionally. I suggest taking a step back and truly finding information that isn't full of noise, banker bullshit agenda, or closed minded thinking. I was there... it took several months not to be.

    PS. Both of my rigs in my house (total capacity is 17) has/had a ROI of 3 months. If I had more capital and more open space (I intend to sell my house soon to move), I would have more. My only regret is I did not have more intelligent people to discuss this topic with beforehand and now (I do credit ProphetZen for helping me through initial stages and I hope that I am paying that knowledge back to a few people I know).

  9. #39
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    If MA got into bitcoin when I asked them to soooo long ago, entropia universe would be much different and MA would be much richer. What they are doing now is "too little too late". Unless they design their Universe around it.

    I like Coinbase. Downloading a bitcoin wallet to your own computer is a slog and a half, but also a must. Mining bitcoin or other crypto currencies is a good way to get to understand what it does and how it works(antminer). Coinbase seems very solid but for the IRS demanding records would be 100% recommend. Their exchange, GDAX, is really nice.

    Litecoin is my third favorite after ethereum (and i just found out about "cryptokitties"). But this is a very dangerous place where you can lose to crooks, bandits, thieves, highwaymen and governments. You should observe the basic tenets - hold your own wallet, don't maintain large balance on an exchange, don't click email links or sms links from unknowns. Be more careful than normal - I been on 3 exchanges that collapsed, I lost 20 LTC to wemineLTC, and i bought mining equipment from Butterfly Labs(with bitcoin: 50 - still runs which also went under and I lost my original bitcoin wallet with .05 btc in it

    The big problem with bitcoin now is the transaction fee - it looks like we won't be buying coffee anymore. I don't think its a bubble. What I think "maybe" is the bankster elites are trying to buy them all is whats causing the rise. I would not buy bitcoin on speculation to hold, especially now at 14000+.

  10. #40
    Elite Aio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    This is why I do not think it is a bubble.

    Its a bubble because it's being pumped like a fat whore. It's an investment ponzi and those who don't know better will get burnt (or at least singed). Again, not an attack on crypto, or being an "investor" (though it's more like being a gambler).

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