Shared Loot Changes

well, if u wish, u can use pills or rings in the math, those don't decay

also, extremely uneco scopes give more decay than THE best scopes in game. the game is not to produce as much decay as you can, but actually get a good setup

well, to comfort you, your stuff only got useless for shared mobs.
For non shared mobs you scan still use your fine stuff :)
 
so basically this brings up the whole discussion of equality vs quality.

By this I mean:
- should EU be like Batsim? (all equal) [personal opinion, no, go play CS if that is what u wish for]
- or should EU be a long-term game with progress, investment, goals?

The goal of shared mobs until yesterday, was to do the best you can, to get a bigger slice of the pie.
For instance if you had 2 people, both doing 100dps. By using a pill or ring, you could improve your dps, and you would get slightly more loot.

However, now it does not matter anymore how many pills, rings, scopes, sights, or buffed armor you have. It does not count anymore.


At least, that is what the release notes claim.
So my conclusion is: until further official notice, SHARED MOBS IS DEAD Shame, it was a fun and social place to hang out.

There is absolutely no reason to join a shared mob right now, with the exception if you cannot kill it solo. If you have invested in buffed armor/scopes/sights/pills/rings, they don't work anymore in shared?

Did MA just devaluate all buff items?
 
Maybe the ‘input’ MA speak of, is similar to completing various input stages say at the Rex wave. So that those who are shooting throughout the stages benefit more than those that just arrive and shoot only the Sand king.
 
Maybe the ‘input’ MA speak of, is similar to completing various input stages say at the Rex wave. So that those who are shooting throughout the stages benefit more than those that just arrive and shoot only the Sand king.

Stretch and a half.
 
Maybe the ‘input’ MA speak of, is similar to completing various input stages say at the Rex wave. So that those who are shooting throughout the stages benefit more than those that just arrive and shoot only the Sand king.

I don't like the Maybe in that.

Also from personal experience it does not seem to matter much, loot-wise
 
so basically this brings up the whole discussion of equality vs quality.

However, now it does not matter anymore how many pills, rings, scopes, sights, or buffed armor you have. It does not count anymore.


At least, that is what the release notes claim.
So my conclusion is: until further official notice, SHARED MOBS IS DEAD Shame, it was a fun and social place to hang out.

I like the change.

Scopes, sights and armor count to the overall decay.

SHARED MOBS IS NOT DEAD :dunce:
 
Maybe the ‘input’ MA speak of, is similar to completing various input stages say at the Rex wave.

Nothing mystic like that, don't take things too far. Those kind of things can't be either proven or falsified so don't take them into account.
Input is tt in (ammo & decay - all decay).
 
SHARED MOBS IS DEAD

Overreact much?
Your rings/pills/imk2s are not useless, it just doesn't give you an edge over other players on shared mobs, other than that you still spend PED faster and get a bigger share of the loot.
It was pretty obvious that the advantage low DPP players got on shared mobs after 2.0 introduction was a side-effect and was not here to stay.
 
does anyone realize, that doing a crit has become useless?

if INPUT is what counts and not damage done...
 
I don't like the Maybe in that.

Also from personal experience it does not seem to matter much, loot-wise

Just thinking stage completion happens on the robot waves and feff waves. i.e. completing stages of shared.

So it seems to me MA have taken this one step further and saying loot distribution is based on your contribution/input for those stages a shooter finishes. So now they want to pay the loot to those that complete more of the shared event.

I would assume those with big guns are not losing any advantage, since their contribution should be easy to achieve. The interesting question is how easy is it to complete stages, so that a big contributor is ahead of lower shooters.

Who knows what MA is suggesting, I'm just offering an observation. Smiles.
 
does anyone realize, that doing a crit has become useless?

if INPUT is what counts and not damage done...

Welcome to loot 2.0, the full edition.
 
does anyone realize, that doing a crit has become useless?

if INPUT is what counts and not damage done...

maybe they should remove doing critical hits from game now?
(talking about shared only, for now...)
 
I would assume those with big guns are not losing any advantage, since their contribution should be easy to achieve.

what about big ass rings, big ass scopes, etc?

what about medium hunters, who are hunting shared mobs, and think a mod ares will help their game?
what about medium hunters, who are hunting shared mobs, and do 4 crits in a row and think they will get more loot?

they are mislead.
 
You seem to have missed this from the patch notes.

(Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).



So, from what you have said that rings, buffs, scopes etc doesn't matter any longer... is false? as it clearly states in the patch notes that optimal loot is calculated on those things.



:scratch2:

are we only looking at one side of the coin?
 
warning

If this is all true, there should be a warning, when entering a shared mob zone:

Warning: your Focused blow, Increased Critical Damage, etc, do not work in this area.

This way people will at least be aware of it.
 
what about big ass rings, big ass scopes, etc?

what about medium hunters, who are hunting shared mobs, and think a mod ares will help their game?
what about medium hunters, who are hunting shared mobs, and do 4 crits in a row and think they will get more loot?

they are mislead.

Well what's to say the benefit from Ares ring and bigger crits is not measured in the input calc. MA just want people at the whole wave event rather than just part of it.

Rick
 
You seem to have missed this from the patch notes.

(Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).



So, from what you have said that rings, buffs, scopes etc doesn't matter any longer... is false? as it clearly states in the patch notes that optimal loot is calculated on those things.



:scratch2:

are we only looking at one side of the coin?


New Features

  • The loot calculation for creatures with shared loot is now based on each avatar’s input, rather than damage. (Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).


  • Loot = based on INPUT, no more on DAMAGE, ==> using FB, ICD, and doing crits = useless

    optimal loot = composition, not tt,
    meaning: big ass dps gets the items (but buffs don't help medium players to get higher dps)
 
Well what's to say the benefit from Ares ring and bigger crits is not measured in the input calc. MA just want people at the whole wave event rather than just part of it.

Rick



From the patch notes:

(Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).


Rings , buffs, more effective kill does directly impact loot calculation.



 
Well what's to say the benefit from Ares ring and bigger crits is not measured in the input calc. MA just want people at the whole wave event rather than just part of it.

Rick

I'm mainly talking about the feffoid pit, where 95% of the people shoot on all waves, not about rext btw
 
as far as we know

INPUT = AMMO (eventually + decay)

PERFORMANCE = dps without buffs, including efficiency somehow

until further official notice
 
If this is all true, there should be a warning, when entering a shared mob zone:

Warning: your Focused blow, Increased Critical Damage, etc, do not work in this area.

This way people will at least be aware of it.

I'd say it actually does not need a note at all. They added a note before stating it was split by damage, because that was how it worked prior to loot 2.0 being implemented on shared loot mobs. Now that the game works exactly the same on shared and non-shared mobs, there definitely doesn't need to be a warning.
 
I'd say it actually does not need a note at all. They added a note before stating it was split by damage, because that was how it worked prior to loot 2.0 being implemented on shared loot mobs. Now that the game works exactly the same on shared and non-shared mobs, there definitely doesn't need to be a warning.

it does not work exactly the same:
in regular hunting, critical hits do have a function.
They reduce your ammo spent, while the loot stays the same.

In shared they reduce your ammo spent, while your lootshare is reduced as well.
critical hits no longer have any effect in shared loot, they do not raise your input.


example: solo
dmg: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 200CH / 200CH / 100 = 900 total
loot: 96% = 864

example: shared
dmg: dmg: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 200CH / 200CH / 100 = 700 total since it is INPUT and not DMG that counts.
loot: 96% = 672


(measurements in pec, I know, it is more complicated that this.)
 
it does not work exactly the same:
in regular hunting, critical hits do have a function.
They reduce your ammo spent, while the loot stays the same.

In shared they reduce your ammo spent, while your lootshare is reduced as well.
critical hits no longer have any effect in shared loot, they do not raise your input.


example: solo
dmg: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 200 / 200 / 100 = 900 total
loot: 96% = 864

example: shared
dmg: dmg: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 200 / 200 / 100 = 700 total since it is INPUT and not DMG that counts.
loot: 96% = 672

sorry but this isn't the case, in solo hunting on loot 2.0 crits reduce your ammo spent and your loot, being tied to your cost/efficiency, is also "reduced", this has just also finally become the case in shared loot as well.
 
sorry but this isn't the case, in solo hunting on loot 2.0 crits reduce your ammo spent and your loot, being tied to your cost/efficiency, is also "reduced", this has just also finally become the case in shared loot as well.

thx for your answer, if that is the case I was unaware.

so, critical hits is... totally useless? it's sand in the eyes?

If you do a lot of critical hits, your input to kill 1 mob is reduced. This should be good.
However if your loot is reduced as well, it is a 0-operation?
 
Incentive #1: Higher hit/dmg level unlocks weapons with higher efficiency = higher tt return
Incentive #2: Expensive amps are expensive because of higher efficiency
Incentive #3: Grinding 24/7 = higher looting skills = higher tt return
Incentive #4: High DPS is necessary to achieve Optimal Loot on big game

It's just ridiculous that a dozen people with ancient weapons that doesn't drop any more can dominate/profit on all and every shared loot instance. The high markup on such items were always a risk to pay - MA could change the game at any time - and MA don't set the MU price, players do. Paying $10000 in MU for an eyeful of pixels is either 1) very very dumb or 2) a calculated risk. Those few individuals that did so cannot and should not decide how the game should be developed.

ok ,yes,valid points,
so for solo loot it is usefull,but not at shared
this game isnt about players versus ma
it is about players versus players,in an boxingmatch or pokergame in the long run the most skillfull will win,leveling the playingfield in shared is against the spirit of this game

i wont be surprised if this trend continues next patch there will be drops of safe spaces(l)
mu wil be huge on them
 
thx for your answer, if that is the case I was unaware.

so, critical hits is... totally useless? it's sand in the eyes?

If you do a lot of critical hits, your input to kill 1 mob is reduced. This should be good.
However if your loot is reduced as well, it is a 0-operation?

so hunting at 8% FB gives u less loot per mob?
 
so hunting at 8% FB gives u less loot per mob?


Yes. Less TT.

Loot composition in the long run though means less shrapnel vs other loot you receive, directly increasing the MU if you hunt a mob that gives MU = better posibility of profiting with the MU
 
does this mean that FB and increase crit has become useless?

as I understand it, input = ammo + decay
dmg = damage dealt


I don't understand why MA would do this. It basically makes all scopes, rings and pills totally useless?

Crit items, for shared loot, yes. It is not going to pay at all to be eco in shared loot, in fact it may hurt you.

For solo hunting it's debateable. When it costs you less to get items (non stackable) then markup is a larger % of your return. I personally think the items that have value for their crit buff are very overvalued though.

Crit does not add a lot to your dps for events, it's a margin item, meaning if the competition is very very close it may be worth it.
 
thx for your answer, if that is the case I was unaware.

so, critical hits is... totally useless? it's sand in the eyes?

If you do a lot of critical hits, your input to kill 1 mob is reduced. This should be good. However if your loot is reduced as well, it is a 0-operation?

You can see it's effect pretty obvious when hunting something like 500~600 hp using a gun where a crit is a 1-shot on those mobs. Like troopers, I'll often notice that when I do a single-shot crit kill, i'll loot 0.00 shrapnel and 0.039 weapon grips for instance (the top of the optimal loot spectrum). Not saying that the crit is generating the weapon grips, but it is generating the variety of loot in favor of MU and against shrapnel. That same mob could juts loot me 0.4 ped shrapnel if it never had grips in it to begin with. Compare to: if I I shot the same mob, it dodged 5 times and i hit it 5 more normal times to kill it, my loot would probably be something like 4ped shrapnel or 3.98 ped shrapnel 0.02 weapon grips (made up numbers, but this is how I have observed it to work time and time again)

This change does bring one thing to my mind though. We had TONS of mecha-DPP users hunting shared waves when it was like before, and optimal loot has always been based on the collective actions of the party. Now that DPP won't 'rob' others, there less incentive to use it for ubers. I think we will see less HAZEN, Plates, massive ESI from SK with those ubers dropping back down to 3.0-3.2dpp rather than 4.0+ since kills will cost more and less optimal loot will be present.
 
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