Fix space logout exploit

I saw micjack advertising his channel so I watched for a while. Some of the highlights: micjack discovers medstims




Full vid:
- it starts at 1:01 - watch it, it's really fun, also, tutorial on how to avoid being looted while going to CP / FOMA


Just in case ppl missed this. It's educational and it prevents pirates from looting you :D


Indeed the part whith Messi is fun :laugh:

So why you asked to turn off PvP in space ?
You don't want to miss that fun right ?.. :rolleyes:


On the other side I see that these people use "nearby" in FL.
I knew this was fixed in PvP zone, so it was obvious to me that it should be fixed in whole space also..
Apparently it was not so obvious for MA.. :scratch2:





The pirate is using nearby to get the status bars of ship and player but being in a safezone it's not hidden so no bug there.
The actual bug that he was using was to spam request to be added to ship's guest list, which, I think, it causes enough lag to slow down their target.



About missing that fun... i's fun once but 99.99% of the times, regular people that cross space aren't going for fun with pirates, they want to get to somewhere. Space is just a hallway atm, it's like city's sewers, full of shit and dead animal corpses and somehow there's a huge passion around this bullshit subject...
 
Just in case ppl missed this. It's educational and it prevents pirates from looting you :D

The pirate is using nearby to get the status bars of ship and player but being in a safezone it's not hidden so no bug there.
The actual bug that he was using was to spam request to be added to ship's guest list, which, I think, it causes enough lag to slow down their target.

About missing that fun... i's fun once but 99.99% of the times, regular people that cross space aren't going for fun with pirates, they want to get to somewhere. Space is just a hallway atm, it's like city's sewers, full of shit and dead animal corpses and somehow there's a huge passion around this bullshit subject...

I didn't say it's a bug, just saying "nearby" should be disabled in whole space. (included non-pvp zones)

IMO PvP is the most fun part of this game. :yup:
 
I am not a pirate. But I neg repped half the {censored} {censored} in this thread. Jesus christ. Ingorance is bliss I suppose.

Easy to hate the idea of 'theft' without looking into it to see that it is not I suppose. You ignorant {censored} disappoint me so much in humanity, in EU, in everything.

Neg reps are considered private, however since you annonced it here in public: The neg rep you sent me was totally uncalled for. First you wrote that i'm a liar. Please explain what you ment. I should add, because warps usually don't fit with events on other planets I go by myself in my quad it's technically impossible to log out during travel. I admit I sometime log out when I'm Close to the final space station but it's only to save a few minutes and because, due to lag, it's very tricky for me to dock at a space station. Practically, only time I go to a space station is when going to Monria.

I wonder, have you ever travelled together (on same ship I mean) with me during a privateer/mothership space trip?

Secondly, as a direct response to you above I want to you to show me where in my text I wrote about "theft" (I assume you mean piracy/lootable pvp here).

In your comment you wondered why logging out reduces lag. Before you explode, I should add, when I log out during a warp I log out and log back in again as soon as the hard drive is done rattling, unless I'm going for bed (then I just log off). Each time you visit a new area, the RAM memory that the entropia client is using tends to go up. This especially applies to going from one planet to Another. If you've been online a few hours, the RAM used can be more than the RAM you have in the computer, so the computer will start to stall. Now, when you're landing on a planet you don't want the computer to crash, so if you've been online for a while it can be a good idea to log out to flush memory, to make arriving on the other planet go smoother. Ok, if you got a good computer with plenty of RAM this probably don't appliy to you, but at least on my computer (4 GB of memory) RAM is an issue.

The second type of lag that I wrote above is something I've written several times: In the entrance hole of space station there is a cloud effect that slows down FPS on my computer to like 0.1 FPS. As you approach space station, it's practically impossible to navigate through the entrance; only way for me to enter a space station is by going out as far as I can from space station, aim for space station, change to "pick" mode and go forward in a straight line hoping I will hit the entrance. Or relog.
 
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Neg reps are considered private, however since you annonced it here in public: The neg rep you sent me was totally uncalled for. First you wrote that i'm a liar. Please explain what you ment. I should add, because warps usually don't fit with events on other planets I go by myself in my quad it's technically impossible to log out during travel. I admit I sometime log out when I'm Close to the final space station but it's only to save a few minutes and because, due to lag, it's very tricky for me to dock at a space station. Practically, only time I go to a space station is when going to Monria.

I wonder, have you ever travelled together (on same ship I mean) with me during a privateer/mothership space trip?

Secondly, as a direct response to you above I want to you to show me where in my text I wrote about "theft" (I assume you mean piracy/lootable pvp here).

In your comment you wondered why logging out reduces lag. Before you explode, I should add, when I log out during a warp I log out and log back in again as soon as the hard drive is done rattling, unless I'm going for bed (then I just log off). Each time you visit a new area, the RAM memory that the entropia client is using tends to go up. This especially applies to going from one planet to Another. If you've been online a few hours, the RAM used can be more than the RAM you have in the computer, so the computer will start to stall. Now, when you're landing on a planet you don't want the computer to crash, so if you've been online for a while it can be a good idea to log out to flush memory, to make arriving on the other planet go smoother. Ok, if you got a good computer with plenty of RAM this probably don't appliy to you, but at least on my computer (4 GB of memory) RAM is an issue.

The second type of lag that I wrote above is something I've written several times: In the entrance hole of space station there is a cloud effect that slows down FPS on my computer to like 0.1 FPS. As you approach space station, it's practically impossible to navigate through the entrance; only way for me to enter a space station is by going out as far as I can from space station, aim for space station, change to "pick" mode and go forward in a straight line hoping I will hit the entrance. Or relog.

easy your a liar. Done

Also go buy a better computer to play a RCE game you idiot troll.
 
you should only be able to loot in pvp what your willing to loose

so the pirate if he has 0 on him he cant loot anything if he has 100 peds he can loot up to 100 peds if there 3 pirate on one person they all have 100 ped each the can loot of total of 300 peds

pirate have nothing to loose except the cost of the kill other wise it all profit

this way every one whould go up in space to go kill each other pvp whould be boomming this way


like me i rarely play now never travel that much in space why cant sell the loot on planet for one plus fear of getting rob moving from one to another

were i live electric goes out 5 to 10 time a year and most time wile im gaming so why would i need to loose money becaseu of a power outage


making a pvp zone were you could go hunt and mine in would be a better way to improve the game not blocking poeple from planet to planet
 
consent

As said before, space is an in-between necessity at the moment, to get to another place. We have another in-between in game, called teleports. Imagine using teleports, and having to go through a pvp-zone before arriving at the other end. They would not be popular.
I don't mind spending time in space, traveling with a quad. I do mind being robbed.

I do agree that space can be fun, using the big ships or small ships, attacking eachother, being on some kind of team chat with your friends and grouping up, ... and much more.
Basically, same as pvp4, but in space.


Some people do like to travel by quad, some don't. Those who don't use a vip flight every time. That's a choice. Putting yourself at risk at PVP4 is also a choice.

However, PUTTING YOURSELF AT RISK IN SPACE IS NOT A CHOICE, RATHER AN INCONVENIENCE.
To be clear, I've been shot twice in space, with some stuff on me. Why?
- Because of bugged space. I was low weight, traveling at full speed, still another quad could gain on me, and it was not a Ferrari one. Piracy is one subject that is there to be discussed. People attacking you while using exploits is another.

- I do like 'fun' in space, however both parties have to agree on it. It's like sex, if both parties want it, it is fun.
- I do want pilots to have a job. It doesn't have to be about pvp space, there will always be ppl who want to avoid the hustle and travel instantly. How about pilot deed owners get a % of interplanetary teleportation fees.
- I do want people, high and low skilled, to be able to use quads safely or others to travel around, take their time, being it at low cost, it's part of the game, it's part of the EU experience.

However I'm not a fan of the hypocrisy of pirates who say, 'it's fun, get over it'. That's ridiculous. Fun is only fun if it is fun for all parties. If I go to my neighbor tomorrow and start throwing 20kg's of tomatoes at his house, and use the lame excuse of it 'being fun', just 'because it's possible', because he planted those seeds especially for that purpose, or any other poor excuse... No consent = disrespectful and egoistic behavior.

It's the same with Freedom. Your personal freedom ends where another ones' begins, and visa versa.
The same with fun. I respect my neighbors, and won't engage in activities that would disturb their peace, and they do the same with me.

The only reason why people do attack others, without their consent, is because they can hide behind their screens cowardly. If you would have to see the person irl after a few days, or do business with him, you'd have a biig problem, after having robbed his assets, that equal real money, stole his goods that he worked hard for and spend money to gather. It 'being possible' in the game is no excuse. Some ppl have ethics, some don't. That's why we have rl crime, 'because it's possible'.

As said before, if I enter pvp4, I would enter my inventory and go have some fun!! That's great! That's my choice!

If I enter space, I need to get to another place. If it is impossible to go to, let say, to Arkadia safely, I'll stay on Calypso unfortunately. There is more then 1 planet in EU. Some of them are pretty good. I'd love to participate on those regularly.

Does MA keep spacepvp in place to fck up other planets? This is not an accusation. It's just too convenient... If it looks like a fire, if it smells like a fire;...

Imo space is like one of those unfinished projects, that probably one of the (at the time) freshly recruited developers proposed and created to boost their own image, but they were never able to finish it. How do you navigate in space without a 3D radar? We've probably all being bumping to the edge of space, while the planet is just a little further... And then you have to guess which direction to go lol.

Then there is the inequality of risks. Even a beginner with no skills can pick up a quad, and start robbing other avatars. Nearly at no risk and at no cost, while their unfortunate target can loose thousands of peds of their assets.
IF pvp space has to stay, it should require a 'space shot' or other toxic shot equivalent. So that every time a pirate has been shot down, he actually has a cost. The income of this could go to 'space pvp loot'.


Anyways, I think that this is a subject different avatars will never agree on. Those who 'like' piracy, apparently tend to be either pirates, or people without much investment in game.

!!! Let's do a fair official MA poll and let democracy decide !!!


All I want, is for EU to be a fun experience for 99% here, and not for the few people trying to exploit others.
 
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That is an excellent post Naomi, it sums the issues up so succinctly.

Any thread involving space and pirates - you can bet is going to be heavily subscribed.
These threads are interesting, have a topic that people feel very strongly about, is about a part of the game that seriously needs improving, and involves a real life financial cost.

I think that MA needs to start paying a lot more attention to this area of the game because of these things (and this has been said often enough by players with much more experience & ability than I ).


I think the idea of piracy is good - that lootable PvP in space should not be abolished as it would take away a sort of spice & excitement - as long as it was made a bit fairer.

(it was funny listening to the outrage of particularly egregious representative of the pirate "profession" complaining about a player using an exploit to escape being looted while at the same time the pirate was using an exploit to catch up to other players).


Let's face it, many pirates are total tools - and it is that carryon that irritates as much as actually being shot & looted. The Twitch Streams they post are evidence of that.

Yet others are quite personable and consider issues carefully (what else is there to do in space hanging about hoping to loot some poor ignorant rookie of money that they invested in the game) their ideas should not be knocked just because they are pirates.


As for total tools you will find them everywhere not just PvP, causing grief to others because that's just the way they roll. You will also find many decent helpful & generous people as well.
 
Also go buy a better computer to play a RCE game you idiot troll.
That does it. Without making any judgement about the post responded to, this is uncalled for. Similar to the in-game ignore list, I maintain a list of people I won't buy stuff from. RCE, huh. You're welcome.
 
As said before...

Indeed what a great post..

I mean for a philosophy lesson about SOPHISM.
What a great example. :wtg:

The whole post is fallacy, but I especialy loved the part where you compare PvP Space in this game whith the fact to throw tomatoes to your neighbour.. :confused:


"sophistry Has Roots in Greek Philosophy

The original Sophists were ancient Greek teachers of rhetoric and philosophy prominent in the 5th century B.C. In their heyday, these philosophers were considered adroit in their reasoning, but later philosophers (particularly Plato) described them as sham philosophers, out for money and willing to say anything to win an argument. Thus sophist (which comes from Greek sophistēs, meaning "wise man" or "expert") earned a negative connotation as "a captious or fallacious reasoner." Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound, or reasoning that is used to deceive."

PS; I'm not a pirate myself. :dunce:
 
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What I find funny so far is the people who do side with the pirates yet have to have a disclaimer stating that they are not a pirate. I have to ask: Why do you need such a disclaimer if EU pirating isn't all that bad?

Yes, EU pirates is much different than any other game's pirating.
 
What I find funny so far is the people who do side with the pirates yet have to have a disclaimer stating that they are not a pirate. I have to ask: Why do you need such a disclaimer if EU pirating isn't all that bad?

Yes, EU pirates is much different than any other game's pirating.

For you to know that what I tell is objective. (not influenced by personal interest)
 
For you to know that what I tell is objective. (not influenced by personal interest)

Maybe but thats hard to believe, as the only ones who would have an instant advantage of it, would be the pirates (more people possible to loot).
The others, interplanetary traders or MS owners, would have instant disadvantage, risk to get looted, therefor less customers for MS services.

Even if it would have an impact on MU, who profits first is the pirates.

Thats the simple truth, and thats why they don´t believe that your idea come from some objective thinking.
Personally I believe, that you really think objective about it, as your intention is to invluence the MU on the goods transported. This may be happen, but from my thinking the impact on MU would be very low, around 1%.
This wouldn´t solve the MU problem if you ask me.

As said befor:
Personally I can´t care less if they fix this exploit or leave it as a feature, as I never used it, nor intend to use it in the future!
There is already a save gamemechanic in place, that can be used to transport stackables between planets (at higher cost than MS services, if mutliple stacks).

On topic about economy boost:
To give economy a boost, we would need much more crafting. No not more Explo gamble, more crafting things that actually will be used by hunters/miners or even other crafters.
Consumeables would be nice, f.e. crafted buff pills. L items that are competitive vs the existing UL items, f.e. a HoT FAP L, at better eco than ModEK2600, or high end L FAP that heals 200/click at 2-3 pec / click (competitive vs ModFAP). Same for weapons and armors, crafted L things should be awesome! Then people would craft it, and other people would buy it. If all that would be L (including the BPs), this would give a good boost to the economy speak MU.

This needed new BPs for items (weapons, armors, tools) should not use mined/hunted materials directly!
If they are made from a set different crafted components, the mined and hunted resources would be consumed by the component crafters, while the item crafters would consume this crafted components.

Latest BP discoverys look not to bad, all of them use some crafted components, so MA is on the right way.

And this idea is not new, think I posted this already 8 years ago or so, but noone did care and a flood of nice UL items crashed all the MU, and killed serious crafting to 99%. Its not the Explo BP that killed all MU, its the availabillity of nice UL gear, vs non competitve crafted gear which noone wants.
 
What I find funny so far is the people who do side with the pirates yet have to have a disclaimer stating that they are not a pirate. I have to ask: Why do you need such a disclaimer if EU pirating isn't all that bad?

Yes, EU pirates is much different than any other game's pirating.


Don't be stupid. ;) You know every pirate's opinion is disregard out of hand - "fuck off pirate scum" is a recent neg rep.

If you are someone who understands the intent and purpose space - almost no one in this thread - and you want to make a point, you want to proclaim impartiality. The neg rep above shows it doesn't matter, because idiots don't read and can't comprehend when they try, but maybe a timid lurker will learn something.

Personally, I don't know who will benefit and who will lose out when the Space fix ultimately comes, and I don't care, because it's not about individual winners and losers - it's about fulfilling the vision.

To all of you pinheads who can't read the notice, I'll paraphrase: "Stay the fuck out of space with your shit if you are scared of losing it."

Peace, Miles
 
To all of you pinheads who can't read the notice, I'll paraphrase: "Stay the fuck out of space with your shit if you are scared of losing it."
Peace, Miles

Most of us hunters & miners would, if there were a decent way to get to the necessary planets.
 
If you are someone who understands the intent and purpose space - almost no one in this thread - and you want to make a point, you want to proclaim impartiality. The neg rep above shows it doesn't matter, because idiots don't read and can't comprehend when they try, but maybe a timid lurker will learn something.

First off, just to make it clear, I never neg rep anyone. If I have a private comment it's always with a +Rep.

Second, you are exactly right. Some just do not get it and that is my point.

Then again there is another way to look at it. You may support it due to the simple fact you hope to make more money if MU goes up so you want others to loose out so you can profit.

See in any other game this would be just fine. But here in EU due to the simple fact we are dealing with REAL money it just isn't working.

Two sides of the story, I'm looking at ways to make the game better for all while others don't care about the game at all as long as they can profit.
 
Most of us hunters & miners would, if there were a decent way to get to the necessary planets.

Besides flying yourself, taking a taxi, or riding on a MS? You just want flipping TP so we no longer have planets.

How about this - a TP that costs 50 ped, takes 15 minutes through a wormhole, and you can't bring lootable stuff? The 50 ped would go into a special bonus pool for space mobs. (If you want to TP for free, it's naked avatars only)

You just don't want Space to be what it is supposed to be.

Peace, Miles
 
Don't be stupid. ;) You know every pirate's opinion is disregard out of hand - "fuck off pirate scum" is a recent neg rep.

It can't be more true.
Here's the last neg rep I've got 5 days ago:

"Thread: Fix space logout exploit

fuck off pirate scum"

So meaningfull and constructive comment.. :rolleyes:


Stay the fuck out of space with your shit if you are scared of losing it.

I agree whith this also, but unfortunatly some people will always try to change the rules of a game that not suit them.
They already managed to change alot in this game, now they work on PvP...
 
Maybe but thats hard to believe, as the only ones who would have an instant advantage of it, would be the pirates (more people possible to loot).

The ones you call "pirate" are simply players that choose to use a feature ingame (lootable PvP space).
You can use it, I can use it, and everybody is free to use it.
So it don't give advantage or disadvantage to anyone, since the game and rules are the same for everyone.
If someone think that to be a "pirate" is a great way to make profit whithout risk, who/what prevents him to do it ?

Thats the simple truth, and thats why they don´t believe that your idea come from some objective thinking.
Personally I believe, that you really think objective about it, as your intention is to invluence the MU on the goods transported. This may be happen, but from my thinking the impact on MU would be very low, around 1%.
This wouldn´t solve the MU problem if you ask me.

For those who don't believe it : I don't even own a Quad right now. :yup:
For the last year I travel space whith Sleipnir, MS, whith friends, etc..
But don't get me wrong, I said earlier that I like PvP (mostly land side), and even think it's the funniest part of the game.

About the fact it would improve MU of stuff, I don't know.
I'm not an expert of economy (far from it), and I hope MA is better than me at this.. :wise:
What I said is that it would probably improve economy on others planets than Caly.

The main reason why these planets are almost empty, is probably that MA is creating a new event every 15 days to keep players on Caly.
But there is a second reason to this.
Strangely these planets keep being empty because they are empty.
We all know it's hard to sell/buy stuff there.
People don't stay on these planets cause they know Caly is the place to trade their stuff.

And that's why Naomi was wrong again in his great work of Sophism:

Does MA keep spacepvp in place to fck up other planets?
(Naomi)

Here, he's trying to tell that PvP in space is responsible.
I dont know if MA wants to f*ck up others planets, but for sure PvP in space can NOT be used to do it.

What is happening is the exact opposite.
Because this logout exploit is what makes it so easier for people to leave others planets whith loots and go back to Caly to trade.
Then it's a vicious circle, no economy on planets, people leave it to trade, so less people, less economy, etc...

So fix this logout exploit, and we will see more people on others planets, and economy there will grow.

By the way, it is indeed an "exploit", not a feature.
We all know that no feature in this game (nor any other games) is suposed to need a logout. :yup:

And anyway, this is not about what we think would be better or not.
It is just how it was suposed to be.
When MA designed space, I don't think they said; "Ok guys, we'll make it lootable PvP zone, but let the players the possibility to logout during the trip." :rolleyes:
It would be nonsense.

That said, I agree that some improvements should be done.
For example, bigger "safe zone" around planets, whith random places where to spawn when leaving a planet for entering space.
Also disable "Nearby" in FL in WHOLE space (safe zones included)
And probably few others that don't come in my mind now.
 
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The ones you call "pirate" are simply players that choose to use a feature ingame (lootable PvP space).
You can use it, I can use it, and everybody is free to use it.
So it don't give advantage or disadvantage to anyone, since the game and rules are the same for everyone.
If someone think that to be a "pirate" is a great way to make profit whithout risk, who/what prevents him to do it ?

End of debate really since it sounds as if you would be happy if there were no RL laws for theft or killing. You be more than happy to do both since there would be no rules. Yes, I bring RL into this again since this game is more based on RL laws due to the simple fact it's RCE and many simply do not understand that and will debate about it really not thinking about it.

And please don't start justifying how other games are the same.
 
And that's why Naomi was wrong

I find it quite pretentious and narcissistic to say that someone else is 'wrong', just because you have a different opinion.

People are allowed to have different opinions.
There is a huge difference between 'I disagree with what you say', and 'you are wrong'. In the first example one takes responsibility, in the second one you pretend that your own opinion is the only possible one.
 
What is happening is the exact opposite.
Because this logout exploit is what makes it so easier for people to leave others planets whith loots and go back to Caly to trade.
Then it's a vicious circle, no economy on planets, people leave it to trade, so less people, less economy, etc...

Or you turn it around. Now some people visit other planets because they can safely transport their loots to Calypso. When they can't get their loot back to Calypso in a safe way, they won't visit that planet at all.

Same point, but can work out two ways.
 
End of debate really since it sounds as if you would be happy if there were no RL laws for theft or killing. You be more than happy to do both since there would be no rules.

Fallacious argument, I don't even mention the personnal accusation here, but there is law IRL, and there is rules ingame, that is two differents things, and they are same for every people IRL, and same for every player ingame.

Yes, I bring RL into this again since this game is more based on RL laws due to the simple fact it's RCE

Fallacious argument also, you confuse again general laws (that indeed every games should respect) and the rules of a game.
Lootable PvP zone in a game don't breaks any IRL laws.. Is it..? :scratch2:

And please don't start justifying how other games are the same.

And we got a fallacious argument again, cause I didn't do that at all.
I was talking only about the fact that no feature ingame is supposed to need a logout or relog. (and you know it)

So all I can answer to this is that you should read again my previous post about Sophism...
 
I find it quite pretentious and narcissistic to say that someone else is 'wrong', just because you have a different opinion.

People are allowed to have different opinions.
There is a huge difference between 'I disagree with what you say', and 'you are wrong'. In the first example one takes responsibility, in the second one you pretend that your own opinion is the only possible one.

Ok, let say "That's why I think Naomi is wrong". :beerchug:
 
Or you turn it around. Now some people visit other planets because they can safely transport their loots to Calypso. When they can't get their loot back to Calypso in a safe way, they won't visit that planet at all.

Same point, but can work out two ways.

Well it could be...

And so you think it's why there is 2K players on Caly, 40 on Ark, 25 on RT, 10 on Cyrène and so on ?..

And it's probably not linked whith the fact Auction is about 500 pages on Caly, 10 on Ark, 5 on RT, etc..?
 
Well it could be...

And so you think it's why there is 2K players on Caly, 40 on Ark, 25 on RT, 10 on Cyrène and so on ?..

And it's probably not linked whith the fact Auction is about 500 pages on Caly, 10 on Ark, 5 on RT, etc..?

Because we can't bring our loot back with us safely.
Since space is unsafe, I personally keep all of my loot on calypso. I won't sell my loot on other planets, because many people only want to buy from other planets, if they can safely go pick it up.

Many buyers don't want to pay for transport fees or vip flights, but actually prefer to pick it up at their next planet visit. Because they risk to loose their purchase in pvp space, they won't bid on stuff on other planets.

This is what concentrates everything to calypso auction. It also keeps many hunters & miners to tied to calypso.
 
The next person who says SPACE PIRACY in EU = REAL LIFE CRIME, and every person after that person, and all of the people who agree with them, will be wrong.

It's not an opinion, it's just the rules of the game. You can like. or hate it, or not care, but ffs stop being so effing stupid.

Peace out.
 
Because we can't bring our loot back with us safely.
Since space is unsafe, I personally keep all of my loot on calypso. I won't sell my loot on other planets, because many people only want to buy from other planets, if they can safely go pick it up.

Many buyers don't want to pay for transport fees or vip flights, but actually prefer to pick it up at their next planet visit. Because they risk to loose their purchase in pvp space, they won't bid on stuff on other planets.

This is what concentrates everything to calypso auction. It also keeps many hunters & miners to tied to calypso.

And this is exactly what I said on my previous posts.

This is why economy on other planets than Caly is so down.

This would not happens whitouth the logout exploit.

And this is probably not how it was suposed to works when it has been designed.

So thank you to confirm all of my preious posts. :yup:
 
Well it could be...And so you think it's why there is 2K players on Caly, 40 on Ark, 25 on RT, 10 on Cyrène and so on ?..And it's probably not linked whith the fact Auction is about 500 pages on Caly, 10 on Ark, 5 on RT, etc..?
See's like you are the only one that is right....If you want to react as smartass atleast get your numbers right, and secondly is this thread not about now but how it would change things.

EDIT: to clarify, i'm not against PVP, but it should be a choice! And some of the points made why this should be removed don't make sense.
 
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