Exploit in Loot?!

Deemer

Prowler
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
1,086
Hello people,

there is a exploit in the loot system that many players using. I more often find players in the field who are trying to use this weakness, than players which looking for play. Here I am talking about a exploit, do not confuse it with the normal luck in the game.

I decided to give publicity instead of using the MA report, because I do not think they will change anything until it starts to affect their balance. So, if more people are familiar they will using or just protect as much as they can, which I hope to affect the activity and as a result im hope this going to change something.


That attracted my attention a few months ago at an event. When a player around me killed a few mobs at a certain time, the rest of the time he stood on the vehicle in order not to be attacked by the monsters.
Interestingly is he was killing 3 to 5 mobs and he found globals, thats repeat few times and this attracted my attention.
Since then i just looking these symptoms of system behavior.

A player comes to the field kills few monsters and disappears.
Sometimes the value is global and visible, but in other cases it is only visible if you keep track of the current balance of hunting.
So, the player has taken 49 ped of prey that is not enough for a global. The player disappears from the field and you stay alone.
As a result, the monster drastically reduces your hunt return, until someone (in this case me) does not regain that part of the loot.
That is the way can understand the approximate winnings of the wanderer who just hunted in the field.

I scan on impudent players, which have the audacity to come right next to me (imagine a big field with hundreds of mobs and he comes and kills those around you), in most cases they use UL weapons with low efficiency.
But there are some who use noob guns with large AMPs.
(eg Rubio, Azuro, or TT Pistol... with E-Amps 15.. I saw a player with Hermann-0 + Fi/Ra/Co Evil... WAW)
And there are those who even go in pairs a Hunter and Healer(for more expense maybe)...

Neither MA nor anybody can tell a player not to do so, becouse UL weapons can be used at the first level, and since Fi/Ra/Co can be attached to Hermann-0...

!! In other words, we both play with this player for my pool, but his chance of taking the pool looks much bigger!!
* because I have my MU items that reduce my "luck"?
* Or because I have reached a quota that stops my "luck"?


> loop
I go into the game with the idea today of killing a thousand mobs. Starting a mission and i have to kill thousands of monsters.
-I take 500/1k ped ammo and go to the field.
-This player picks up 50 ped ammo and starts to go around and look for ones like me.
-I kill hundreds mobs > I do not have a global(appetite for such players) > he coming and taking what I've lost so far > vanishes out of the field.
*My chance seems lower than his, though he has no part in killing those few hundred monsters. Why?!
> repeat


It seems return of the hunt include Mark Up of the booty. This forms a margin, that is therefore my loss and is in the loot pool. The exploit that results from this is that the MU of my loot exceeds a bit or is equal to the gross value. Once I'm over or equal to 95/100%(including MU!) My chance for this pool that I created seems to be relatively small. Тhis is my only logical explanation for the shi**.

On the other hand, those people playing this way, with little loss have a very good chance to take this created margin/pool. By increasing their spending with similar tricks, they often take the whole pool. The illogical to me is why someone will have a better chance of being over 100% after taking that pool, and those who create it have almost no chance for it.

We have costs in the sale, a decay which in most cases is purchased again with MU, and with longer hunting this decay increases, MU from the disintegration does not enter the upper calculation. The exploiters most likely throw everything in the TT for fast-profit. They have a fairly insignificant decay and almost no MU from it, and most probably no trade.

I tried their technique a few times and the score was always positive (100% +, no MU included).
But this way of playing is too messy. There is no consistency or development that makes it illogical to me.
In all this I do not see any logic about the economy in the game.


The problem is that I encounter more and more players, and with bigger animals the players look more and more cunning!
Is this the game? Waiting for someone to deposit and wait for him to start doing something?
Let's make a fool and say there's nothing wrong with some players just being lucky using Fi/Ra/Co + Herman-0.

But the question is, how exactly is MA trying to motivate me to deposit in the development of my game?
 
Your post is somewhat confusing, if I understand correctly what you are trying to say is that you hunt and lose a % of your input, then than % you loss goes into a loot pool, then someone else shows up, kills a few mobs and "steals" the loot pool you just created, then repeat. If this is what you are trying to say then you are making a wrong assumption:

- You are assuming that the money you lose goes into a loot pool, this is not the case. Whatever money you lose goes directly into MA pockets. The closest thing to what you describe is the bonus shrapnel loot pool created by inefficient hunters and looted by efficient ones, but I doubt this is what you are referring to since those pools in low - mid level mobs are too small to make bonus loots a global most of the time.

I have never seem the behavior you describe, but I think it is just bad luck. Some times when you are hunting you don't get any globals, someone comes along and get one in a few kills. It just happens by chance, if you hunt long enough then you will see that kind of situations more often. The probability of you NOT getting a global in 100 kills + The probably of someone else getting a global in less than 10 kill is high enough for that happen a few times in a given period of time. The longer you hunt the more often you see that particular scenario.

You are also assuming that globals = profits and that is no where near the case.
 
You think people are hanging around like old ladys at jackpot slots in vegas waiting for you to lose a bunch hunting so they can swipe the extra peds youve left in the lootpool with an overamped azuro and youve tried this and it works consistently. :scratch2:
 
You went hunting. You lost peds. End of story !

Dont think about who is getting the peds you lost. Think about why you lost so much. Its not same.

Good luck :)
 
yea yea.... NO

Move to loot theory section.
 
- You are assuming that the money you lose goes into a loot pool, this is not the case. Whatever money you lose goes directly into MA pockets.

When you exchange your USD (or whatever) for PED, the USD goes directly into MA pockets. After that their only concern is to prevent you from claiming your USD back and/or to make you deposit more through the decay of your PED balance. But they don't do that for you personally, they just make sure that the total amount of ped (the pool) is not greater than the amount they are willing to part with. Say MA decides to have their revenue at 5% of deposits which seems to be the case. All they need to do is to create a 5% leakage in the pool. They don't take those "money" out of the pool because those aren't money at all. They are IOU for the money they already possess. The leaked amount just cease to exist. And they don't care how the remains are get distrubuted among the players, i.e. who exactly are going to claim back the 95%. They of course set certain rules of distribution, like more return for higher efficiency, looter skills etc but they do it just to add to the gameplay, to create goals and purposes, it doesn't have anything to do with their own income at that point. Whatever you lose goes back to the pool to get redistributed.

As for the OP, hunting under someone's else nose if a dick move but otherwise there is no crime. It all comes down to your firepower, the greater dps you employ the more you kill in a period of time the more looting events you create the better is your chance to be there for the lucky drop when the pool gets ripe. You are welcome to come to my hunting fields any time. If I see that you are killing faster, I'll abandon the place to you uncomplainingly. But if not, I'll appreciate the loot bonus you brought in.
 
If they are kill stealing, it could be an issue. Otherwise it's as others replied already...
 
Okay, people, I've tried to be exhaustive enough. Maybe you get a little longer so you can confuse those who have not read more than the first sentence.

The Thread is for EXPLOIT in loot, it's not for hunt theoty or GUIDE for hunt :scratch2:
 
Okay, people, I've tried to be exhaustive enough. Maybe you get a little longer so you can confuse those who have not read more than the first sentence.

The Thread is for EXPLOIT in loot, it's not for hunt theoty or GUIDE for hunt :scratch2:

if you think its an exploit then do it urself and record it so you can show it to everyone.

in 99% of cases people dont do it because they cant reproduce it which means its just a load of horseshit
 
Okay, people, I've tried to be exhaustive enough. Maybe you get a little longer so you can confuse those who have not read more than the first sentence.

The Thread is for EXPLOIT in loot, it's not for hunt theoty or GUIDE for hunt :scratch2:

Until you can show an actual bug/process they are exploiting it is just a theory.

Sorry,
 
Knowing how loot works is not an exploit. It's knowledge that may have cost a lot to be gathered.
There is no rule in this game that you have to kill 1000 mobs to be profitable.
Overamping or using swine deluxe on certain mobs is not an exploit. You use the tools you want to use. No 3rd party programs, no hacks. It's allowed to use items with an eco of 1.0
It's allowed to use an evil amp on a 2 dmg blp gun.

Some people seem to do fine with all these methods. They do fine because they put in the work to find out what works.
 
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ITT: People who don't know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis.
 
Some people seem to do fine with all these methods. They do fine because they put in the work to find out what works.

For me it looks questionable, that it works what he describes.

Some points he mentioned may give an small advantage on shared mobs, but in comon hunting == ???? :scratch2:

The Thread is for EXPLOIT in loot, it's not for hunt theoty or GUIDE for hunt :scratch2:


And WHERE IS THE EXPLOIT, all what you say is just different style, different gear.
So what is the EXPLOIT here ? :scratch2:
 
You think people are hanging around like old ladys at jackpot slots in vegas waiting for you to lose a bunch hunting so they can swipe the extra peds youve left in the lootpool with an overamped azuro and youve tried this and it works consistently. :scratch2:

If you believe in the slot machine sniping fallacy you're insane. This is the same situation here.

The old ladies that snipe machines after you leave after wasting even millions on the slot machine has ZERO advantage using your machine the second you hop off, or using a random one. You're insane and paranoid.



----

After re-reading this it looks like I am saying BigPimping is insane, that comment is directed towards the OP not BigPimping. I am just continuing on what BigPimping said.
 
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Those who read the comments in the topic, just ask the question to yourself...
Is it logical the player with long-time experiance dont know the "loot pool" is?
And what is the reason for their comment in the exploit topic?
Why are they so sure there is no exploit, that they seem to hear for the first time?

I am aware that most of the comments will be aimed at shifting the thread in another direction, because I see from practice that most of them playing this way.

I made the thread in order to introduce those who are not aware of this exploit for the reason I have explained. And which would help them explain, why they sometimes have more loss.

The thread is not for players who using the exploit and trying to move the topic in another direction, So I don't feel that I should give you any explanation. If you really dont know about this exploit im glad to inform you and hope this to be helpfull in your evolution of your character for the future.



Knowing how loot works is not an exploit. It's knowledge that may have cost a lot to be gathered.
There is no rule in this game that you have to kill 1000 mobs to be profitable.
Overamping or using swine deluxe on certain mobs is not an exploit. You use the tools you want to use. No 3rd party programs, no hacks. It's allowed to use items with an eco of 1.0
It's allowed to use an evil amp on a 2 dmg blp gun.

Some people seem to do fine with all these methods. They do fine because they put in the work to find out what works.


Right view on the topic, thanks for that! You just missed the picture that this is used to kill a few monsters, which makes it exploit!
This choice in this case is targeted at those seeking development with the subliminal goal of stealing their pool! This knowledge and this way of play make it exploit!
If someone really wants to play this scheme, then he has this right, but they do not play that way, just the thief!

Do you really believe someone plays with Hermann-0 + Fi/Ra/Co Evil all the time. I dont beleave, therefore I call it a exploit!

Knowing about this exploit, I personally reduced and limited my deposit in the game.
I think others like me have done it, you can see the history of the CLD.

And be sure that if it was an exploit that contradicts some rule. Scanned players by me would have been reported.

I think I explained the reason why I made the thread.
 
I think you are confusing the word "exploit" with "strategy".

An exploit is using a bug or oversight in the system to gain an advantage outside of the boundaries of what is intended to be allowed by the system.

Using different gear or a different hunting style than meta is not an exploit.
 
I think you are confusing the word "exploit" with "strategy".

An exploit is using a bug or oversight in the system to gain an advantage outside of the boundaries of what is intended to be allowed by the system.

Using different gear or a different hunting style than meta is not an exploit.

It's really hard to break down what he is saying, but that's not the issue. It's just evidence of the issue according to him.


So to break it down to actually be in human readable english:

He is hunting at an area, he believes he is putting peds into the lootpool of those creatures, specifically a loot pool for the small area he is standing in, so not all of that creature type just the nearby ones share this loot pool he speculates.

After putting in peds to the area, he believes that another player is coming in, and shooting just a few creatures, and somehow that player is pulling out all of the peds he lost into that small area loot pool.

He also notices that when the players do this, they are typically overamping and using otherwise very uneco gear, and that somehow, the exploit is that overamping and using severely overamped guns will allow you to clean out the small area loot pool near instantly. That is the supposed exploit here.


So he thinks this is an exploit. Now if it is somehow true that there is a small local area loot pool, and also true that using that set of gear can clean out said lootpool near instantly, the question is, is that an exploit?

If using that gear is capable of glitching the system and emptying out loot pools in just a few creatures, if unintentional that is an exploit yes. But that is very unlikely. Perhaps some testing is in order. OP claims he has already tested this and proven it, but we need proper testing to be sure.



TL;DR
EXPLOIT (IN THEORY) IS USING UL NOOB WEAPONS THAT ARE OVERAMPED TO CLEAR OUT A LOCAL AREA LOOT POOL OF ANOTHER PLAYER IN JUST A FEW CREATURES GIVING MAD GLOBALS SON.



However, anyone with any experience in the game will know this entire exploit theory is wrong.
 
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If you think MA tracks and computes loot by a group of mobs or a spatial location in the game, I think you greatly overestimate the computation resources MA has available.

They have no reason to do this....
 
If you think MA tracks and computes loot by a group of mobs or a spatial location in the game, I think you greatly overestimate the computation resources MA has available.

They have no reason to do this....

That's just the tip of the iceburg of info we need to teach this guy. :laugh:


Please keep in mind I was just translating his theory, I don't believe any of it.
 
One of these days I'm going to write a loot engine simulator :D
 
I think there are two problems here,

1. OP thinks he is being exploited.
2. Shady characters think they are exploiting him.

Does reality matter?
 
bla, bla, bla
So to break it down to actually be in human readable english:

As I said, I know many of you will not like to give publicity to your spanking.

Not bad people just know for now about this exploit.
If they keep track of a margin (loot pool), they will soon notice that their loss so far (loot pool) goes to someone who has just come to the field.

Then your comments on the fact that my English language is not good will not matter. Rather, players will look at you and your comments the way I see now.
 
If you think MA tracks and computes loot by a group of mobs or a spatial location in the game, I think you greatly overestimate the computation resources MA has available.

They have no reason to do this....

One of the most buggy programs is the games.

Do you really believe there is a program that can not be bypassed. Especially when you have more control like in the games?

Did you check the "theory" before posting your view point?

Jhereg: Joined Dec 2005
Venture Bros: Joined Sep 2012
narfi: Joined Jul 2008
.....

They dont know that more spend means better chance ingame. And you guys for 1st time hear about loot pool.

Im glad to help with some info old players, Thanks for joining in topic :rolleyes:
 
One of the most buggy programs is the games.

Do you really believe there is a program that can not be bypassed. Especially when you have more control like in the games?

Did you check the "theory" before posting your view point?

Jhereg: Joined Dec 2005
Venture Bros: Joined Sep 2012
narfi: Joined Jul 2008
.....

They dont know that more spend means better chance ingame. And you guys for 1st time hear about loot pool.

Im glad to help with some info old players, Thanks for joining in topic :rolleyes:

You know what, I'm going to just walk right back out the door here, and let this thread move along without me in it.
 
As I said, I know many of you will not like to give publicity to your spanking.

Not bad people just know for now about this exploit.
If they keep track of a margin (loot pool), they will soon notice that their loss so far (loot pool) goes to someone who has just come to the field.

Then your comments on the fact that my English language is not good will not matter. Rather, players will look at you and your comments the way I see now.

Wait so I didn't interpret it correctly? Then you are far worse at english than I thought. If that is not what you meant I don't think anyone knows what you're talking about. Can you rewrite it? No one here is against you man, you've got a conspiracy theory going on here now too haha
 
As I said, I know many of you will not like to give publicity to your spanking.

Not bad people just know for now about this exploit.
If they keep track of a margin (loot pool), they will soon notice that their loss so far (loot pool) goes to someone who has just come to the field.

Then your comments on the fact that my English language is not good will not matter. Rather, players will look at you and your comments the way I see now.

I really don't get it. Would you mind explaining in a simple, readable paragraph what this "exploit" is, how did you test it, and exactly what unintended feature or bug is at play?

So far what I think you are trying to say is that you fill a loot pool when hunting, then other players using overamped, inefficient and costly weapons come along and then empty the loot pool you created. For me there is nothing wrong there.. if these player are really using these methods then their returns can't be that great either, at least not their average return.

Also, I don't appreciate you attacking or accusing the people who took the time no only to read your already confusing and poorly worded post but also to formulate and type a reply trying to help you understand the game mechanics better.
 
You know what, I'm going to just walk right back out the door here, and let this thread move along without me in it.


You may be one of the few who do not attack me directly to change the direction of the topic. I think I attacked you a bit too much, influenced by the other comments.
My apologies, best of luck in the game!
 
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