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Renting Windows

~ Cirrus ~ said:
Thank you to make it simple for me Oleg, but I think it's way too simple in your mind.
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As I suspected, you're clearly not actually interested in anyone else's opinion at all.

When it becomes better not to play the game than it is to play it, EU is dead.
 
Oleg said:
As I suspected, you're clearly not actually interested in anyone else's opinion at all.

When it becomes better not to play the game than it is to play it, EU is dead.
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This is not true and you know it.
Why I asked for some arguments if I'm not interested ? :confused:

But anyway, the question here is indeed not exactly to know what you think it is, or what I think it is.
But what it is really.

That's why people with differents opinion should tell their arguments, then we can compare, discuss, and this is how we go closer to the truth.
It's called a "discussion". :)

But again here you chose to simply write a "nice looking" sentence, empty of any sense in the context, and zero argument..
If this help you to feel better believing you are right anyway, why not...
But for sure it don't help to answer the question. :rolleyes:
 
Oleg said:
Sigh... it's been explained 50000 times. You just can't be bothered to find it.

So for the 50001st time... (and I'll try to keep it simple, just for you)

A strong economy is created by trade. Trading between players is the lifeblood of EU, and the more of it there is, the better. It's what keeps the market going.

A rental system reduces the incentive to trade, and therefore the volume of trade. It is therefore bad for the economy.

Xen is right, people shouldn't post suggestions without thinking them through, but they continually do, and worse still, MA sometimes listen to them.
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If the op don't understand this then I don't know...


Currently I own one Aakas fire dagger, one trauma IV, one unl no sib riffle also from ark. A Gremlin and a gnone amor, also plates for it and L mining finders. If this system that you suggest and many others over the past would take place how many of these items I would have actually?

Wouldn't it be better to rent tiger armor or a f-106 finder? Ask thus your self and think if what you suggest would be better for the game economy and everyone in general.

Change perspectives sometimes, you learn a lot with it.
 
Fanan said:
Currently I own one Aakas fire dagger, one trauma IV, one unl no sib riffle also from ark. A Gremlin and a gnone amor, also plates for it and L mining finders. If this system that you suggest and many others over the past would take place how many of these items I would have actually?

Wouldn't it be better to rent tiger armor or a f-106 finder?
Click to expand...

How many of this items would you have ?
I guess all of them if you choose to.

Better to rent a Tiger armor ?
Well same.. it's your choice.. Do you really needs it ? if yes, for how much time ? Can you afford to buy it ? What is price to rent it ?.. etc..

Why do you think that to rent something whould be so much easier and cheaper (in long term) that to buy it ?
I guess the price for renting would works the same as MU is working now, depending on supply/demand.
 
I think that the best argument so far against renting system, is that few people whith a load of money would probably try to buy every items that worth to be rent.
Then get a monopoly on this, and that would be pretty bad.

Some people talked about that here. (See Oleg, I really read people's opinions and even think about it :))

Maybe there is a solution for this not to become a real "business", like a limit for amount of time renting on each avatar or something like this..

Not an easy one, for sure.. :yup:
 
I think I might be missing something here. Did Mindark announce that renting will be supported in the near future?
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
Maybe there is a solution for this not to become a real "business", like a limit for amount of time renting on each avatar or something like this..
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Be careful what you wish for or suggest... Mindark has a long list of 'compensations' being given for various things they changed or wanted to fix in game by paying off avatars involved... For example when the personal revive terminals were killed off in game resurrection chips were given in their place, etc.

One 'solution' could be for them to give 2-5 times the highest historic markup value to everyone that has an Unlimited Item in game and remove them all, replacing them with L items...

a similar 'solution' would be to just give you rough estimate of markup value in Arkadia Moon Deeds for every Unlimited item in game, and once all Ark Moon Deeds are gone, continue that payout by giving similar 'deeds' related to the other promised planets written in the Deep Token white page... pay everyone with an Unlimited item off and then change entire game at the same time... making every item L and making every item that is L only able to be created via crafting...

I suspect such a drastic change would probably create a bit of a panic and several rage quitters. ... but with as many threads as there are about folks renting things to win events, etc. as there are right before and after every blasted event in game, such a drastic change is probably in the future going to take place... just a matter of time... The way things have been going they'd likely even throw on top that all 'items' become soulbound and only stackable things you use to craft these items are what can be traded...
 
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mastermesh said:
Be careful what you wish for or suggest...
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Guys, you should come back down on Earth sometimes..
This game makes some of you paranoid. :whisper:

Some are scared by the thread title only.. :eyecrazy:

Some are scared about the idea of a renting system that would makes the economy collapses.. Sky is falling for sure. :scared:

And now this ?

mastermesh, what you are saying here is at least a great lack of logic.. (not to say more..)

The idea here is to create a renting system for UL items.
And you say that it would makes MA wants to remove all UL items for the game... ?! :scratch2:

Be careful
Click to expand...
drastic change
Click to expand...
panic
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rage quitters
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all 'items' become soulbound
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Are you this guy walking in the street, ringing a bell and telling everyone around that the End is near ? :silly:

Oh, and in case what you say here happens one day...
You are the one who just gave them the idea, not me. :rolleyes:
 
ffs this has been argued 100 times and nothing new has come up in this thread. Face it, MA don't want it, drop it.
 
//mod note

I'm just going to go ahead and change the name of this thread to "Renting Windows" since the thread title doesn't really seem fitting to me.
 
mastermesh said:
Be careful what you wish for or suggest... Mindark has a long list of 'compensations' being given for various things they changed or wanted to fix in game by paying off avatars involved... For example when the personal revive terminals were killed off in game resurrection chips were given in their place, etc.

One 'solution' could be for them to give 2-5 times the highest historic markup value to everyone that has an Unlimited Item in game and remove them all, replacing them with L items...

a similar 'solution' would be to just give you rough estimate of markup value in Arkadia Moon Deeds for every Unlimited item in game, and once all Ark Moon Deeds are gone, continue that payout by giving similar 'deeds' related to the other promised planets written in the Deep Token white page... pay everyone with an Unlimited item off and then change entire game at the same time... making every item L and making every item that is L only able to be created via crafting...

I suspect such a drastic change would probably create a bit of a panic and several rage quitters. ... but with as many threads as there are about folks renting things to win events, etc. as there are right before and after every blasted event in game, such a drastic change is probably in the future going to take place... just a matter of time... The way things have been going they'd likely even throw on top that all 'items' become soulbound and only stackable things you use to craft these items are what can be traded...
Click to expand...


Dont give them such ideas LOL, in worst case this really could become true :)
 
I dislike the idea of a renting system in entropia universe. Right now the Top tools circulate amongst the players that put them to use and maybe share them for a rental with people they trust or use alt/bought/gifted accounts to maximize their income in competetions. With the current system it hold no value to own two of the same guns, creating a bigger supply.

With a rental system in place, those tools will suddenly attract other investors who will maybe never use them self but only rent them out to make a profit. Now owning multiple tools of the same kind will hold a value and all the good stuff will start to gather under a very small circle of persons who will dictate the rental price because there is no competetion. Because tools can now generate passive income, the price will skyrocket and the supply will be close to non existant.

People will very carefully look at the new rental market and select out any item that has a limited supply with acceptable eco and sweep the market clear to rent them out. Its even possible that some tools will settle dust intentionally in a storage for the rest of eternity just to rent out a few of them for a high fee.

This will not limit to top gear but anything that is somewhat eco and has a limited supply. This will not enhance the game it will only add another layer of money you have to pay to someone else and the people who profit from this change will be only a very small group.

hence, i dislike a rental system as you suggested for the reasons above.
Yes i dont know if anything would become as i imagine it but i rather be safe and hope i never have to find out
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
I think that the best argument so far against renting system, is that few people whith a load of money would probably try to buy every items that worth to be rent.
Then get a monopoly on this, and that would be pretty bad.
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We had that situation for a while during VU9 with the "spacechips" (hangars). For some time it was possibly to safely rent out the hangars.

What happened: Price of hangars Went from 40k:ish to 140k:ish PEDs. The hangar owners charged a price of 100 ped/day or 500 ped/week, which in its turned forced the pilots to raise their prices, and what we called "the cartel" started to take 25 ped ticket fee for going one way between Calypso and the asteroid. And because the pilots wanted to fill to last seat, after you decided you wanted to leave the asteroid it could take 40 minutes Before you actually could leave, unless you paid the pilot the cost of the remaining seats. Some pilots who owned their hangars tried to charge their 15 ped fee, but had alt avatars blocking their hangar doors, and was barked at when they tried to bypass the "Pilot line" (giving the passengers no option if they wanted to pay 25 or 15 ped/ride).

That's a special case, but shows the risks of unharnessed renting.

The obvious result of a rental system would be, it would be free Money for players who aren't Active ingame (by renting out items), and it would compete with (L) items. It wouldn't increase the availibility of items for normal players; the people who owns good rentable items would probably keep the nicest items to their closest friends during events (mayhems), possibly even using the rental system.

And MA probably can't set a good fee of it. There is no good way for MA to set a fair imposed fee for an item that rarely sees an auctioneer (like the Terminator). Especially if the terminator would be rented out at its lowest TT value. And if TT sets a low fixed fee, the rental system will probably mainly to be used to make loans between friends safer. (And if MA sets a high fixed fee, low/mid level players who want to rent out their marber bravo will be discouraged from using it).

Let's say someone wants to rent out their mod merc for 500 ped/week. For a hunter, this will be a cost that never will be refunded, as it's PEDs that is passed straight to Another player who is likely to immediately withdraw it. On the other hand, if MA drops an (L) mod merc, let's say in loot, the *hunter* who loots it can sell it, use the profit to pay cost of let's say (L) armor; or use the gun himself. In this case there will be less cash that's withdrawn. (The 1 PED guns that are dropped in events is a special case; they're nice to use especially if you are the looter. The only problem is deciding it's true market value; in some cases resellers charge more for it than would be comparable to the normal (L) weapon, which makes it less economical to use.)
 
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Darkaruki said:
//mod note

I'm just going to go ahead and change the name of this thread to "Renting Windows" since the thread title doesn't really seem fitting to me.
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Well, people was so scared by it, maybe it's safer now indeed. :nurse:
 
Fiona and aia, that's 2 interesting post, and I totaly agree whith this. :wise:

And as I said previously, there is maybe a solution for this.
I told about a limited amount of time.

But now I think the best solution would be a limited amount of items that one avatar could rent at a time.
Why not 2 or 3 items at a time..
But more probably this amount should not be more that 1 rented (or lended, since it would be impossible to differenciate) item at a time. (exception for armor/plates, for sure 7)

Then it would prevent the possible problem that we were talking about, but still allow you to rent something occasionnaly if you need it, and also to easily lend stuff to friends.

And afterthought some people would probably create multi-accounts (even if it's not allowed) to be able to rent out alot of items..
I guess some people will always try to take advantage of a system by any means..
What a wonderfull world.. uh.. :rolleyes:

Then maybe MA should simply be more severe whith "cheaters"...:proof:
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
But now I think the best solution would be a limited amount of items that one avatar could rent at a time.
Why not 2 or 3 items at a time..
But more probably this amount should not be more that 1 rented (or lended, since it would be impossible to differenciate) item at a time. (exception for armor/plates, for sure 7)
Click to expand...

That would solve nothing, sorry.

Look at FEN token trader what weapons have been offered.
Its different weapons for different levels, now the renting mafia would simply buy all of them and renting them out.
How it is now, sure the biggest wallets bought this weapons and try to sell it now for a profit, because they just need one of them (the best one), the others are available in trades.
If some renting mafia, would have bought all, it would be available for rent, but that also means for MU for those using it.
It would become completely useless to invest to buy better gear, as there would be no gear for sale available, just for renting!

Limiting item numbers for rent to less than 7 would make it impossible to rent out full armor sets.
Limiting item numbers for rent to less than 14 would make it impossible to rent full set plated armors.

So limiting items, solves nothing.

And you already pointed out the next problem, if number of items for rent will be limited they simply would use multi accounts, what not necessary would breaking the EULA as most people have relatives that actually dont play EU. Simply ask them to create an account, giving real personal data and banking informations to MA, and all would be fine within the rules ToU/EULA.
If my brother (who actually dont have an EU account), would withdraw some k PED every month, if he makes an rental account, and give it to me in RL, what should MA do against that ?

MA could do nothing, and it would be really bad for the availability of items for trade in EU, they would be gone in no time.

It would also skyrock some MUs on efficent items, as you could simply make back the money by charging higher rents.

Example: A weapon that cost now 50k PED, could be bought by rental Mafia at lets say 100k PED, and then rent out for 50 PED/ day. ROI 5.5 years, not a bad investment! That would be better than AUDs/CLDs/MDs, but double the MU of that specific item, and this item would be off the market from that moment and everybody would like to use it had to pay the rent, so no advantage from beeing unlimited, you still would have to pay MU in form of rental fee.

So please NO, dont introduce this!
 
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