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  1. #31
    ubi is for the same idiots who think that this generation will be the last because climate change will kill the planet... lol

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelStewart View Post
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    You mean automation's going to take away my remedial job as a telephone switchboard operator? Besides, we already have a Universal Basic Income.

    It's $0.

    The UBI is $0.
    in 5 - 10 years, your job will be killed by AI, and your current boss will get your incomming trough a robot. Why not tax your ex workplace, and give you a ubi, if you dont have longer work? Into the metal industrie (mechanic) there got a lot workplaces lost, if we got computers for making the pieces, instead of a human. if i was young, i saw all this destroying of workplaces. Now, the AI is some thing more as a computer/mashine. It realy will kill a lot of our current workplaces and there will be not enought new work for everyone.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post
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    in 5 - 10 years, your job will be killed by AI, and your current boss will get your incomming trough a robot. Why not tax your ex workplace, and give you a ubi, if you dont have longer work? Into the metal industrie (mechanic) there got a lot workplaces lost, if we got computers for making the pieces, instead of a human. if i was young, i saw all this destroying of workplaces. Now, the AI is some thing more as a computer/mashine. It realy will kill a lot of our current workplaces and there will be not enought new work for everyone.
    no way, this is utter bullshit. In 5 to 10 years not much will be different.
    At the moment the opposite is actually happening. We have far to few workers available!
    Our unemployment rate has never been lower as it is today.

    Maybe what you say will be true in 50 years or more. But in 10 years we still need more workers than we can supply.
    And once automation will kick in we need folks to operate the machines.
    And once we don't need those anymore, skynet will try to destroy all humans, sending in terminators after us, so no need for a ubi than anyways.

    So, to bad you lazy fuckers! No UBI and just work for your money!! If you want something for free, just watch the sun go up and under.

  4. #34
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    To me UBI is a lazy way to implement a social safety net...giving money isn't always the best way to achieve exactly what you want.

    But I believe people should be able to have the necessities of life, whatever their particular situation may be. I'm talking food, shelter, medical care, etc. In the end, this is cheaper than having them get sicker and sicker then they have to be taken care of anyways but at a higher cost to everybody. Not to mention it is just the compassionate thing to do.

    I think providing basic needs for people actually means they can more easily actualize what they actually want to become. I think this really depends on your view, if people are self-motivated or if they are generally going to be as lazy as they can be.

    Anyways, my two rambling cents.
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  5. #35
    Elite trance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizz View Post
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    no way, this is utter bullshit. In 5 to 10 years not much will be different.
    At the moment the opposite is actually happening. We have far to few workers available!
    Our unemployment rate has never been lower as it is today.

    Maybe what you say will be true in 50 years or more. But in 10 years we still need more workers than we can supply.
    And once automation will kick in we need folks to operate the machines.
    And once we don't need those anymore, skynet will try to destroy all humans, sending in terminators after us, so no need for a ubi than anyways.

    So, to bad you lazy fuckers! No UBI and just work for your money!! If you want something for free, just watch the sun go up and under.
    let's talk about that in 10 years In my country, ppl above 55 age mostly don't find any job again. So im sure, those are not lazy, they just don't get a job!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhereg View Post
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    To me UBI is a lazy way to implement a social safety net...giving money isn't always the best way to achieve exactly what you want.

    But I believe people should be able to have the necessities of life, whatever their particular situation may be. I'm talking food, shelter, medical care, etc. In the end, this is cheaper than having them get sicker and sicker then they have to be taken care of anyways but at a higher cost to everybody. Not to mention it is just the compassionate thing to do.

    I think providing basic needs for people actually means they can more easily actualize what they actually want to become. I think this really depends on your view, if people are self-motivated or if they are generally going to be as lazy as they can be.

    Anyways, my two rambling cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post
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    let's talk about that in 10 years In my country, ppl above 55 age mostly don't find any job again. So im sure, those are not lazy, they just don't get a job!

    Well, in both case we already have a solution to that.
    As a social safety net, in case you can't work due to ilness, age or whatever reason, there is social welfare.
    You only apply for that if you CANT work and not if you just dont WANT to work.

    A UBI is not a safety net. A UBI is just a way to make people lazy.

  7. #37
    Elite trance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizz View Post
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    Well, in both case we already have a solution to that.
    As a social safety net, in case you can't work due to ilness, age or whatever reason, there is social welfare.
    You only apply for that if you CANT work and not if you just dont WANT to work.

    A UBI is not a safety net. A UBI is just a way to make people lazy.
    Just a question, did you ever had the situation to use your so called welfare? I don't know how this is in other countries, but here in my country, if you get welfare, you get near noting, and you will loose all your hard worked things like car, house, etc... maybe also the wife. Then, if you get welfare in my country, you will be observed like you be a criminal.

    Realy, welfare is not the solution in long term, and welfare cost a lot of money too, just only for observation, controling, office and all the other cost. But ok, how i told, we will talk about this all in 10 years. I don't think i can change your mind yet , also same at me, you can't change my mind about that theme.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhereg View Post
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    To me UBI is a lazy way to implement a social safety net...giving money isn't always the best way to achieve exactly what you want.
    I disagree with the word lazy, but money sure isn't everything, I agree. For me, UBI is a new starting place and a new attempt at finding a balance between individuals, the local and the global.

    For over ten years now I have thought about whether virtual worlds can fascilitate experiments into human nature at larger scales.
    One thing I have noticed from the changes to the 'camera system' is that I am not terribly keen on stupidly pressing the 'F' key over and over again. I would prefer to keep my mind more active if I can, but if the lazy way is also 'faster', and skill gains are useful and speed plays a role, then there is an incentive included in the playstyle I dislike.

    If society can afford to have me do stupid stuff at a low level of my ability and pay me for it, then it could quite possibly also give ppl a basic income and ask them to do something productive with some of their time - and that may end up being much more constructive.

    It seems to me that a lot of RL is like sweating mobs. We can be so much better than this, surely?

    I'm open to ideas - but maybe it's a chicken and egg sort of thing - we need ideas to get a good ubi implemented, and a good ubi implemented to get good new ideas....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post
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    Just a question, did you ever had the situation to use your so called welfare? I don't know how this is in other countries, but here in my country, if you get welfare, you get near noting, and you will loose all your hard worked things like car, house, etc... maybe also the wife. Then, if you get welfare in my country, you will be observed like you be a criminal.

    Realy, welfare is not the solution in long term, and welfare cost a lot of money too, just only for observation, controling, office and all the other cost. But ok, how i told, we will talk about this all in 10 years. I don't think i can change your mind yet , also same at me, you can't change my mind about that theme.
    "maybe also the wife." lol!!
    Dang I have to sell my wife first before I get welfare!!
    She's worth at least 12 camels!!!

    Jokes aside, yes, you surely have a point. It's not much different here.
    But instead of throwing out money for an UBI, why not improve the welfare system to better standards?

    Just looking at myself, if I would get a UBI, I would instantly stop working!! And for sure Im not the only one!
    I simply got to many hobbies and to little time.
    To me, time is worth more than money.
    But as it is now, money buys time, but you need time to get money first.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by wizz View Post
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    Just looking at myself, if I would get a UBI, I would instantly stop working!! And for sure Im not the only one!
    I simply got to many hobbies and to little time. ...
    Of course I could be wrong, but I doubt your income currently is at the level an UBI would be at. I assume you earn more, as do most people who work. Wouldn't UBI just make up part of your income in the future?

    In conversations I've had, almost nobody would want to stop working anyway. The odd one or two, yes, and it's interesting to talk to them about that, I admit...

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