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  1. #91
    Stalker San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
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    Seriously? We never go hunting without an A101.
    How do you deal with its not using any ammo? Do you tt shrapnel or other loot to keep cycling? I keep trying to avoid that but every setup which includes the A101 consumes a larger portion in peds than can be recovered from non-shrapnel loot. It behaves like a melee weapon here and makes me want to get rid of the damn thing every time (I do use melee but then with a different mindset). Does A101 improve your results beyond the 1% loss of not converting shrapnel?
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by San View Post
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    How do you deal with its not using any ammo? Do you tt shrapnel or other loot to keep cycling? I keep trying to avoid that but every setup which includes the A101 consumes a larger portion in peds than can be recovered from non-shrapnel loot. It behaves like a melee weapon here and makes me want to get rid of the damn thing every time (I do use melee but then with a different mindset). Does A101 improve your results beyond the 1% loss of not converting shrapnel?
    I hunt with Rufen a lot, I can confirm that I never tt shrap and it is very easy to hunt it away. Yes using chon and A101 does use a lot of decay rather than ammo thus building shrap but a simple chage to TT pistol and ZX amp the change in ratio is a lot and you are able to maintian a healthy balance of Universal Ammo.

  3. #93
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    Glad to see you pick up the project again and are doing well with it.

    I'm still interested in the impact of the attachments. Even though they do increase efficiency on the guns you are using, they also lower the DPP (from around 2.97 to 2.63 on the Chon).

    So on the one hand, the extra couple efficiency points is increasing your TT return [by who knows how much], but at the same time is decreasing the MU on your loot [by who knows how much] because you will be getting less higher-tier loots.

    Would be interesting to see which threshold is greater.

    Anyway, good luck!
    Hey Det! Thanks for your comment. I would rather gain 100% TT return and no markup than have 95% return and 104% avg markup. I know which one I'd pick any day. I've taken time in how I should respond to your comment. To put it simply Efficiency is now the equivalent of quantity crafting and Damage Per Pec is now like condition crafting. At the moment I am not a huge fan of DPP, I use it to climb as high up the efficiency ladder, then try to go higher still. If DPP by the standard way we calculate it is thrown out the window, so be it, cause it can no longer beat the house. Now, who says that my play style is actually decreasing my markup? Have u seen the average markup I can obtain? Gross 107%. That doesn't seem to indicate I am getting less markup loots or more shrapnel loots. If anything my playstyle helps the markup loots to even show up. Who says my gun is still not at a high DPP of 2.974? I measure both DPP and EFF on two different scales, they are not one and the same, that's how I can live with 2.63 DPP. Like I said, if there was a way to increase my TT returns, I will do it, even if it gives less markup. There may be another factor I have not yet explored as to why I am profiting on TT, but it seems my 1-week old disciple has disproven that theory already, due to him not having any looter skills to speak off yet is at 100%. In conclusion, people need to stop treating DPP/EFF the same, they are not the same, they once shared a linear connection, but that connection has been severed loud and clear, so the new META is now Efficiency over DPP IMO. Take that as you will, I know there are a lot of players who don't agree with this statement cause they are losing a wad ton of peds, but there are other factors at play, such as sine waves (loot cycles), skills and multipliers etc. I hope my rant helps people realise something new to mull it over.
    Last edited by M Rufen Power; 01-20-2020 at 22:22.

    Mark Rufen Power: "Profitable hunting with 100% returns? Possible, want to know how? Learn How To Survive & Profit"

  4. #94
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by San View Post
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    How do you deal with its not using any ammo? Do you tt shrapnel or other loot to keep cycling? I keep trying to avoid that but every setup which includes the A101 consumes a larger portion in peds than can be recovered from non-shrapnel loot. It behaves like a melee weapon here and makes me want to get rid of the damn thing every time (I do use melee but then with a different mindset). Does A101 improve your results beyond the 1% loss of not converting shrapnel?
    I don't ever TT shrapnel. I actually convert it for the 1% markup it gives. Now I know A101 doesn't have any ammo burn, but that is okay the looted shrapnel is enough to manage. I usually keep about 800 peds in universal ammo, then 200 peds for repairs. If my repair float starts to drop a little due to, let's say negative returns. If I am unable to auction the item or flog it to another player through trade chats, that's when I would actually TT the loot, last resort. I hope that answers your questions San, to a satisfactory level. So don't worry about not having enough to repair it or not enough ammo to use it, the shrapnel looted is more than enough to cover the guns needs without having so much surplus, and that would only happen from getting a huge multiplier anyways. But for me A101 is invaluable, I've already made back its value in profitable hunting and I hope new players can see what is possible in this game.

    Mark Rufen Power: "Profitable hunting with 100% returns? Possible, want to know how? Learn How To Survive & Profit"

  5. #95
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw4g MaSt3r View Post
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    I hunt with Rufen a lot, I can confirm that I never tt shrapnel and it is very easy to hunt it away. Yes using chon and A101 does use a lot of decay rather than ammo thus building shrapnel but a simple change to TT pistol and ZX amp the change in ratio is a lot and you are able to maintain a healthy balance of Universal Ammo.
    Yeah, I normally switch between guns, to see which one actually performs better on the same mob. So I will try Chon, then move to M2100A1, or next run HK110, or even Bukin perhaps. So I mix it up just to see if any setup has a slight advantage over another for the same mob. But in most cases, Chon wins hands down, in a lot of areas. The biggest being the DPS and turnover speed due to the high hit rate. IMO this helps tremendously cycle speed.

    Mark Rufen Power: "Profitable hunting with 100% returns? Possible, want to know how? Learn How To Survive & Profit"

  6. #96
    Stalker San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
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    ...I hope that answers your questions San, to a satisfactory level. ...
    You must spread some...

    Thank you! Yes it does, in every detail. I need to work on finding a rhythm with it, for all the years I've been avoiding it and got me one only recently. Maybe the mistake was that I only ever resorted to this level of hunting when funds were low. Haven't actually played low-level game with a healthy budget as you explained.
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  7. #97
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by San View Post
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    You must spread some...

    Thank you! Yes, it does, in every detail. I need to work on finding a rhythm with it, for all the years I've been avoiding it and got me one only recently. Maybe the mistake was that I only ever resorted to this level of hunting when funds were low. Haven't actually played the low-level game with a healthy budget as you explained.
    Well, I am glad that my explanation helped you make that decision. Awesome. With anything, it takes time to build up a rhythm. The thing for me is, hunting low level is more sustainable than hunting above it IMO. I don't hunt mobs that have higher than 1 ped cost to kill. So 300 HP is my limit due to budget, gear and skills. I mean, I love playing the game, so anything that doesn't break the bank in 1 sitting is most favourable, as I can never go back to sweating .

    Mark Rufen Power: "Profitable hunting with 100% returns? Possible, want to know how? Learn How To Survive & Profit"

  8. #98
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Downtrend

    Hi guys,

    Just a quick update, had recent runs back to back which were negative. Went from 102% to 98.56% TT returns. I intend to continue grinding markup, that should slow the decline until I get a decent kick back. But I am fully expectant at the worst case scenario for it to go as low as -300 ped, only time will tell how bad or how long this will last. The aim here is to put on your best poker face and don't leave the mob (table) when your ped (chips) are still left in the lootpool (poker table) for grabs or someone else will take them and that would be a loss.
    Last edited by M Rufen Power; 01-22-2020 at 12:38.

    Mark Rufen Power: "Profitable hunting with 100% returns? Possible, want to know how? Learn How To Survive & Profit"

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
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    Hey Det! Thanks for your comment. I would rather gain 100% TT return and no markup than have 95% return and 104% avg markup. I know which one I'd pick any day.
    Sure, everyone would prefer that. I was more curious about actual tested numbers rather than thought experiments.


    Quote Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
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    Now, who says that my play style is actually decreasing my markup? Have u seen the average markup I can obtain? Gross 107%. That doesn't seem to indicate I am getting less markup loots or more shrapnel loots. If anything my playstyle helps the markup loots to even show up. Who says my gun is still not at a high DPP of 2.974?
    "Who says" - MindArk says; EFF impacts TT return, DPP impacts loot profile.

    Your results are great, no doubt, but my curiosity was simply what the measurable impact of those attachments is. From a purely technical perspective (based on actual statements from MA) by increasing your efficiency at a sacrifice of DPP, you should technically be increasing your TT return at the expensive of getting less optimum loot. The extent of that impact is what would be interesting to know. Maybe your average MU could be 1% higher with only a 0.5% lowered average TT return, or perhaps you cross a particular threshold and start to get UL drops or who knows what.

    You are saying things like "that doesn't seem to indicate I am getting less MU", but it seems like you are kind of theorizing that your results are already optimal. I think might be a fallacy, though I certainly understand that when you are doing well the desire to change or test new things is very low.

    It could very well be that such a small increase in efficiency and such a small decrease in DPP have almost immeasurable impact, and we would have to make much larger swings to notice any difference; but unless it's actually been tested it's just theorycrafting.

    Anyway, glad you're back and do keep testing and questioning.

  10. #100
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    Sure, everyone would prefer that. I was more curious about actual tested numbers rather than thought experiments.




    "Who says" - MindArk says; EFF impacts TT return, DPP impacts loot profile.

    Your results are great, no doubt, but my curiosity was simply what the measurable impact of those attachments is. From a purely technical perspective (based on actual statements from MA) by increasing your efficiency at a sacrifice of DPP, you should technically be increasing your TT return at the expensive of getting less optimum loot. The extent of that impact is what would be interesting to know. Maybe your average MU could be 1% higher with only a 0.5% lowered average TT return, or perhaps you cross a particular threshold and start to get UL drops or who knows what.

    You are saying things like "that doesn't seem to indicate I am getting less MU", but it seems like you are kind of theorizing that your results are already optimal. I think might be a fallacy, though I certainly understand that when you are doing well the desire to change or test new things is very low.

    It could very well be that such a small increase in efficiency and such a small decrease in DPP have almost immeasurable impact, and we would have to make much larger swings to notice any difference; but unless it's actually been tested it's just theorycrafting.

    Anyway, glad you're back and do keep testing and questioning.
    Absolutely. More testing and more shooting. Last night I looted a Shogun Shin Guard (F) piece sold that for a pretty penny . I doubt I could of looted that solely with DPP. Because loot is returned back to you from what you put in first.

    Mark Rufen Power: "Profitable hunting with 100% returns? Possible, want to know how? Learn How To Survive & Profit"

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