Response on Bad Loot and my MA tracked 91% Returns

Funny how some people can radically change sides for their own interest.. :rolleyes:


In order to change sides, I would first have to pick one. My only interest is truth.


Stop asking data for everything like a reflex, it's getting stupid..

I don't feel that asking for data to back up an assertion is "stupid". I don't accept anecdotal claims as "facts", as some people in this thread seem to.


Yep I know that, I can do well if I stick on Puny being myself L73.. (if by "doing well" you mean loose only a bit, not earning some)

But I can't see the point to this..? :dunce:

You just aren't getting it, and I don't think anyone can get through to you, so I think you will probably just stay disappointed in the game.
 
You just aren't getting it, and I don't think anyone can get through to you, so I think you will probably just stay disappointed in the game.

Believe me, there are a lot of people who completely agree with what I'm saying. :yup:
Most of us don't say what they think on forum. :censored:

Why I even ask to believe me.. You'll ask for data isn't it ? :rolleyes:
 
Is there any actual data to support this?

Yes many players with some of the best gear are reporting changes in loot and extreme volatility despite high looter and efficiency. If you been reading this thread and the others on loot you will see them. I guess you can ask them personally but I can just quote one here for ya.


Im LV 60 looter and hunt with a FEN weapon with 84.3 eff, 3.540dpp and 111dps. Loot has been shit lately with 2hrs between globals frequently. It`s extremly volatile, no stability at all with swings from 60% to 100+. I cant ever recalling having 3 profit runs in a row for several years.

I`m not expecting to print money, but no game should cost 100bux to play for 1 day.


Increased hunting activity, high Looter level and a FEN weapon isn't going to generate stable 97% returns. Can we just put that to rest. It's better to do what I have which is greatly reduce all hunting and enjoy other aspects of the game. I been mining, harvesting etc. while we wait and enjoying other professions that aren't a complete loss. So yes it is up to us to not throw money away in a profession that needs some obvious work. Fortunately there is more to this game then just hunting but many players would like it to improve or at least get back to where it was.

Edit - Again the purpose of this thread is a constructive open discussion about hunting Loot and how it needs to be improved because many players are in distress about the system not proving acceptable or the expected results. Maybe something changed in an error and it was missed by MA but obviously something is off and I hope we can figure it out. I am sure this thread and the others on the same topic recently has given MA important information and they are investigating it.
 
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Believe me, there are a lot of people who completely agree with what I'm saying. :yup:


There's a lot of people who believe vaccines are dangerous. Having other people agree with you does not add validity to your beliefs.
 
Im LV 60 looter and hunt with a FEN weapon with 84.3 eff, 3.540dpp and 111dps. Loot has been shit lately with 2hrs between globals frequently. It`s extremly volatile, no stability at all with swings from 60% to 100+. I cant ever recalling having 3 profit runs in a row for several years.

I`m not expecting to print money, but no game should cost 100bux to play for 1 day.

Someone else saying 60% return happens whith 84% efficiency..
And that for some people money vanish so fast whatever you do.

Another liar ! Data please ! :mad:

Just asking you, what would be the point of lying about that ?
I mean, if someone had a good TT return, a decent return, what would be the point of lying ?

That's a real question I'm asking you.

Let's say someone have a 95% TT return, what more could he hope for by saying he only have 80% ?

Please tell me, cause I can't see any point to this..? :confused:

I can clearly see the point of lying saying return are good for everyone, especially when you invested alot in the game, as I already explained before, but really can't see the point doing the opposite..
 
Yes many players with some of the best gear are reporting changes in loot and extreme volatility despite high looter and efficiency. If you been reading this thread and the others on loot you will see them. I guess you can ask them personally but I can just quote one here for ya.


Ah now I see the problem, we don't agree on what defines empirical data. Anecdotal claims from people just stating "I'm doing everything right and have the best gear but loot sucks" is not actual evidence of a broken system.

For the record, I wasn't the one who claimed you needed a FEN item or to increase hunting activity to stabilize your returns. My only input to the situation was simply that you need more loot events per interval to decrease volatility, and also that volatility tends to increase during heightened global activity.

I was also experiencing lower returns starting with Halloween Mayhem, but I adapted my gameplay to counteract it. This is generally the problem I see with a lot of the detractors, a refusal to understand that the game is very much dynamic (and that doesn't mean what you think it means), and that you must constantly adapt to survive. Whatever you did last week that worked is not likely to work again this week. At least that's how this game has always been for me.

BTW, I use what most would consider shitty gear and do not do many of the things that others claim necessary to achieve good results. I am not profitable overall, but my sustainability is good and I am enjoying the game within my means.
 
There's a lot of people who believe vaccines are dangerous. Having other people agree with you does not add validity to your beliefs.

Natural selection at its finest....



Someone else saying 60% return happens whith 84% efficiency..
And that for some people money vanish so fast whatever you do.

Another liar ! Data please ! :mad:

Use your brain. pechunter says there in your quote: swings from 60% to 100%. NOT 60% return.
He says he doesn't see 3 consecutive profit runs. You know why he's not seeing? Coz we're in loot 2.0 and those are not possible. You know why we're in loot 2.0? Because in loot 1.x you and other players that refuse to understand the system lashed at MA so they had to change it for you :rolleyes:

You are the dishonest one here, that you cherry-pick a bad day or a bad run or just an awful period that is implemented and natural to the game that passes anyway. You with an awful play style want to have amazing results, right?

Just as IRL, natural selection at its finest.... :cool:
 
Someone else saying 60% return happens whith 84% efficiency..
And that for some people money vanish so fast whatever you do.

Just asking you, what would be the point of lying about that ?
I mean, if someone had a good TT return, a decent return, what would be the point of lying ?


He didn't claim his returns were 60% overall, he claimed he had swings as low as 60%. That can certainly happen on a small sample of loot events. Saying you got ANY percentage back on ANY given run is totally meaningless - I can make a run anything I want. I could go hunt 3 prots and then come bitch that my returns are 40%.

I am not doubting that some people are experiencing bad results. My only argument is simply that those bad results are due to the player, not the game.
 
Natural selection at its finest....





Use your brain. pechunter says there in your quote: swings from 60% to 100%. NOT 60% return.
He says he doesn't see 3 consecutive profit runs. You know why he's not seeing? Coz we're in loot 2.0 and those are not possible. You know why we're in loot 2.0? Because in loot 1.x you and other players that refuse to understand the system lashed at MA so they had to change it for you :rolleyes:

You are the dishonest one here, that you cherry-pick a bad day or a bad run or just an awful period that is implemented and natural to the game that passes anyway. You with an awful play style want to have amazing results, right?

Just as IRL, natural selection at its finest.... :cool:

Stop bullshit please..

I was doing not bad in 1.0
That's why I started asking to bring back 1.0 about 1 week after 2.0 has been introduced.

And I still ask for it.. MA bring back 1.0 !

So don't talk about thing you don't know.. again !

I don't care about 60% return times if I know I can get 140% also..

But getting between 60 and 100, is making you loose always, and 60% makes you loose all your money extremely fast when you deposit small/medium amount (about 200/300$ max for me)

Stop thinking everyone is dumb man.. :dunce:
 
He says he doesn't see 3 consecutive profit runs. You know why he's not seeing? Coz we're in loot 2.0 and those are not possible.

This is an obvious problem, Okay lets fix this then because you most definitely can have 3 or even 30 negative runs in a row:laugh::eyecrazy: If that is true in order to meet these expected returns you must also be able to have streaks of positive consecutive runs. Evey you contradict yourself constantly.

Obviously he wasn't claiming he had 60% return just the cost of hunting has increased recently. (which it has) Loot is down overall, it's flat, whatever you want to call it. That is why these recent threads exist because we noticed. Now we are reporting it and you are like....nuh uh... ROFL
 
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I was doing not bad in 1.0
That's why I started asking to bring back 1.0 about 1 week after 2.0 has been introduced.

And I still ask for it.. MA bring back 1.0 !

Herein lies the problem, you seem unwilling to adapt and think outside of the box in a highly competitive and constantly changing system. MA isn't going to revert everything back. Either learn to improve or don't and be miserable, nobody can force you.


This is an obvious problem, Okay lets fix this then because you most definitely can have 3 or even 30 negative runs in a row:laugh::eyecrazy: If that is true in order to meet these expected returns you must also be able to have streaks of positive consecutive runs. Evey you contradict yourself constantly.

A big problem with these discussions is that there is no clear or consistent definition of a "run". Anyone can make a run any duration of time or peds or kills that they like. I can create a positive run simply by hunting a few mobs until I get a bonus or mult that puts me in the black and then stopping. I can stop at some other point in a downswing and have a negative run. I don't think there's any value in measuring things in terms of an arbitrary quantity that anyone can redefine to suit their argument.

If you insist there is an actual defect in the game, we need to see some clear evidence of such, not just "people can have lots of bad runs".

If the assertion is simply that the game is too expensive, that's not really a defect or bug, so we have to approach it differently. No sane person would argue against getting better returns or lowering the cost to play. What we are trying to figure out is whether the people claiming the abnormally low returns are due to mistakes they are making or an actual problem with the game. Until said people provide clear data about the situation we really won't be able to make an accurate assessment.
 
If the assertion is simply that the game is too expensive, that's not really a defect or bug, so we have to approach it differently. No sane person would argue against getting better returns or lowering the cost to play. What we are trying to figure out is whether the people claiming the abnormally low returns are due to mistakes they are making or an actual problem with the game. Until said people provide clear data about the situation we really won't be able to make an accurate assessment.

I think we can stop worrying at this point because Mindark has this data without further ado. They will notice when there is a swelling in complaints and can apply amends as they see fit if they find their business endangered. For us to obtain this data painstakingly only to make an assessment which is not our job just doesn't make any sense and is a waste of energy.

The tracking tool mentioned above is for everybody's personal use and is meant to help ascertain if there truly is a reason to worry or not. Our feelings tend to betray us and I've been surprised both ways already by applying it as described (meaning some runs turned out pretty bad despite I got elated by globals, as well as the other way around). Some people just can't get over their psychological inhibitions against being proven wrong, not even at the chance of a positive surprise. This is not something we here can fix.


Edit: Forgot I've been meaning to help this important item get through with special emphasis (you must spread some...):
A big problem with these discussions is that there is no clear or consistent definition of a "run". Anyone can make a run any duration of time or peds or kills that they like. I can create a positive run simply by hunting a few mobs until I get a bonus or mult that puts me in the black and then stopping. I can stop at some other point in a downswing and have a negative run. I don't think there's any value in measuring things in terms of an arbitrary quantity that anyone can redefine to suit their argument.
The application notes for said tool above take care of exactly that.
 
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Herein lies the problem, you seem unwilling to adapt and think outside of the box in a highly competitive and constantly changing system..

Again the famous "EU is dynamic" & "you have to adapt".. :laugh:

Adapting to something without questioning its legitimacy or fairness is stupid.

It's called fatalism.
It leads to the acceptance of the unacceptable.

highly competitive

What are you talking about ? :confused:

The only competitive side of EU is in the amount of money you are able to deposit.
 
Again the famous "EU is dynamic" & "you have to adapt".. :laugh:

It is indeed humorous. The humorous part being that the players doing well keep saying it and the ones complaining keep laughing it away or calling it stupid.


The only competitive side of EU is in the amount of money you are able to deposit.

If you believe this, then I've just found issue #2 of why you are doing poorly.
 
Some post ago i said i have around 97% return, but didnt do a compilation. So it is BS.
Not big turnover for hunting but there it is

November 2019 : 93.09%
December 2018 : 91.11%
Jenuary 2020 : need to calc, will update. But this is similar.

Main setup : 65.5% eff, 63.2% eff, 71.9% eff.

Have the conclusion you want with those result.

The reason i did not buy this perfected gun is i don't care to get 2% more TT return, not gonna change much things.
I still play, maybe i "store" something big. Just like my mining tower that wait me :D

And so i have some cheap steam game to play. 8 hours a day grind this week, it is a bit boring.
 
It is indeed humorous. The humorous part being that the players doing well keep saying it and the ones complaining keep laughing it away or calling it stupid.

Happy for you that you are doing so well ingame then.. :rolleyes:

If you believe this, then I've just found issue #2 of why you are doing poorly.

Then why not answer to the question ?

What are you talking about ?

When you fully understand something, it should be very easy to explain, so we are waiting for your explanation.

Also instead of keep repeating the same "you have to adapt" that in fact is meaningless, just explain what it concretely means, for us dumb people.. :dunce:
 
Happy for you that you are doing so well ingame then.. :rolleyes:

As I explained previously, I am not profiting, but my returns are decent and I'm sustaining myself just fine within my budget - and most importantly I am enjoying the game rather than complaining about it. I consider that doing well, though certainly others might have a different opinion. We all have different goals.


Then why not answer to the question ?
What are you talking about ?

There was no question, you stated that the only competitive part in EU was within players' wallets, which is false.


When you fully understand something, it should be very easy to explain, so we are waiting for your explanation.

Also instead of keep repeating the same "you have to adapt" that in fact is meaningless, just explain what it concretely means, for us dumb people.. :dunce:


Even if I were accepting disciples, you wouldn't meet the requirements since requirement #1 would be an open mind and willingness to change.
 
The humorous part being that the players doing well keep saying it and the ones complaining keep laughing it away or calling it stupid.

So if i win the lottery tomorrow and you don't, then it's just because i did adapt better than you did?
Ok Boomer.
 
There was no question, you stated that the only competitive part in EU was within players' wallets, which is false.

Yep sorry I repeated only 2 times the question, maybe it was not clear..
But you know usualy when you see "?" that means it's a question.

So let me ask a third time;

What are you talking about ?

For some help I'll remind you, you said EU is highly competitive.
I said the only competitive side of EU is how much money you are able to deposit.
You said it's wrong, so again what are you talking about ?

Can you describe what is competitive side of EU if not about money ?

Even if I were accepting disciples, you wouldn't meet the requirements since requirement #1 would be an open mind and willingness to change.

Oh so you avoid also this one.. now I'm disapointed.. ( or I was kind of expecting it :rolleyes: )

So you repeat many times "you have to adapt", and you know perfectly how to explain what "to adapt" concretly means, but you don't want to tell cause you're assuming I wouldn't want to hear it...

Makes sense. Sorry to disturb. :dunce:
 
(yadda yadda)


I'm not going to hold your hand. The most powerful weapon in this game is not a FEN anything, it's knowledge.


I don't think you are a dumb person, but I think you might be ruled by your emotions. I don't know how long you've been playing, but I'm sure much longer than me. Try to open your mind and explore the information available. Success in this game can be had at any level of play.
 
The Thread Story So Far..... ;)



For the record, my loot hasn't exactly been great lately, so I do other things & wait for better times.

Eventually they tend to turn up. Fingers crossed eh? :yup:
 
So you do work for MA? :confused:

Nah man, I was just trying to come up with a light response to your vitriolic garbage.

I don't claim to be an expert in anything, but what knowledge I do have seems to work for me. I used to do very poorly in this game and waste a lot of money on being stubborn. When I stepped back and tried to open my eyes and look at things differently, I started making much better decisions and my results greatly improved and I started enjoying the game much more. I probably could be more profitable if I cared enough to apply myself more.

I don't really consider myself a very smart person, so if I can figure it out, all you cantankerous walnuts can too.
 
I don't claim to be an expert in anything, but what knowledge I do have seems to work for me.

And that's the point, it may only work for you and maybe a few others... but don't expect it to work for everyone.

I tried everything, nothing worked consistently... so in the end it comes down to, either you get lucky or you don't...
If something works for you consistently, then it may just be a lucky coincidence...
If your knowledge would be right, then everyone should be able to replicate it.
 
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