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  1. #281
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    so i asked you about gear and i didnt reply about it

    so with your actual gear long term i dont see you getting more then 94.xx % return. You said you want to rise it to 98% then you have to invest in gear with higher efficiency like 85%+ and even then u need looter so might take time
    .........

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    This is why in my other thread I proposed one method that visually shows looter working and increases the minimal amount of loot you can get on any one mob. You literally can see it working.

    There really needs to be some very clear transparent system though. (whatever that is ) Instead of made up numbers by MA that don't have any data backing them. It's impossible to prove the effects of Looter and Efficiency. So here we are. Yes the comparison of hunting to slots is understandable. Even in that great Economy video that just came out on Entropia, they said all professions are the same as a Casino and you are gambling. A very fair objective video.
    You may have a typo and meant minimum, not minimal , but all hail the Freudian slip!
    As an MS pilot I can also see players who are not maxed on their rk tools because of their repair range, for example. Not every repair, but the repair range.

    I understand you mean as minimum loot increases for the same kill cost, you know that looter skill is indeed rising. Well, that would work as long as, for example, the minimum of 20% baseline for loot is not changed, but would still require looking pretty closely at each loot and trying to identify out a new minimum over quite a period of time. The best I see at the moment is when 1-shot kills costing 10 pecs never return me under 2 pecs loot. Would I have to check the exact number of shrap as well to see if my minimums were very slowly rising? Someone else looked at the non-multi return stats as percentages and presumably would have a slowly rising corridor of returns from that range too if looter skills affected every mob.
    Edit: ahhh, you do say by looking at logs you can see proof of looter and efficiency working... that should easily show you minimums per mobs I guess, yes. I wish we could have a loot text chat as individuals, not just teams!!!

    Unfortunately, I cannot see MA explaining anything unless forced to by law, as they want to be able to 'adjust' formulas as they like, whenever they like. My best hope is that MA learns to stop this seasonal culling of players in favour of longer-term success and gets to grow its playerbase rather than needlessly cutting it back by testing our cut-off points...
    At least I feel like maybe 1k carabok again right now, instead of not playing at all ( I did have a cold as well...)
    Last edited by jetsina; 01-25-2020 at 16:21.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alina View Post
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    so i asked you about gear and i didnt reply about it

    so with your actual gear long term i dont see you getting more then 94.xx % return. You said you want to rise it to 98% then you have to invest in gear with higher efficiency like 85%+ and even then u need looter so might take time
    Thanks for the response but I will disagree. Sorry looter right now doesn't do anything. I also don't see any reason to invest in higher efficiency when players with higher efficiency items aren't getting good returns either. Furthermore brand new players should be at 94%+

    The system just isn't providing any proof that it works and doesn't instill any faith amongst the hunting community. If returns get better and the system looks like it is working, then sure I will gladly buy a FEN corrosive chip or something equivalent. Until then there are so many other things I can do until hunting loot is fixed and TT % returns are improved by MA. Just an objective way to look at it.



    I can Harvest, sweat, mine, hug a Merp, or play with my pets. Tons of other skillin to be had while hunting get addressed.
    Last edited by The Abomb; 01-25-2020 at 17:32.
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  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alina View Post
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    so i asked you about gear and i didnt reply about it

    so with your actual gear long term i dont see you getting more then 94.xx % return. You said you want to rise it to 98% then you have to invest in gear with higher efficiency like 85%+ and even then u need looter so might take time

    I believe you are right.

    In fact with 2.0 i had around the "expected" return of 97%.

    Then looter came. There we go -7% loot. Want it back ? must reach level 100 looter. According to my result and those from friends, this is exactly that.

    I can exactly predict how my return gonna be. It does in fact lead me at knowing my cost to play.

    And this is far too high. And i dont have patience to reach a huge level of looter ( 80+ ) as it need too much time and money to loose.

    The looter prof introduction was a nerf. And i don't accept it. at all. I won't cry everywhere, i know the rules, i know the cost to play, everything is in the hand of everyone.

    You either accept it or not. And i don't, i was close to unlock intuition, but after all, all of this is garbage thats not gonna change my cost to play. I know perfectly know how to improve it. Just do not accept it.

    ps : some old forum post show exactly the nerf.
    2.0 was at least good. Looter prof just nerfed the whole shit.


    Good luck to everyone there, have fun with this cool game.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Thanks for the response but I will disagree. Sorry looter right now doesn't do anything. I also don't see any reason to invest in higher efficiency when players with higher efficiency items aren't getting good returns either. Furthermore brand new players should be at 94%+

    The system just isn't providing any proof that it works and doesn't instill any faith amongst the hunting community. If returns get better and the system looks like it is working, then sure I will gladly buy a FEN corrosive chip or something equivalent. Until then there are so many other things I can do until hunting loot is fixed and TT % returns are improved by MA. Just an objective way to look at it.



    I can Harvest, sweat, mine, hug a Merp, or play with my pets. Tons of other skillin to be had while hunting get addressed.

    Sorry for the double post, actually everything work as intended. It is just that MA did not say " hey bitches, go get lvl 100 looter, cuz you're gonna get bad TT return"

    me too i was thinking thats it was something that help you to get better return to compensate not having huge efficiency or whatever. But this is not the case.

    if you are around 94% return, playing with adj maddox no enhancer should cost you 36 peds per hour of shooting.
    A basic mid lvl gun. Play 5 hours a day as a mid player.
    540 USD per month of "fee", count shrapnel conversion, maybe 500, count MU earned, maybe 300-400. Gl for the 94% return with this weapon, you need at least 70+ looter.

    Or you accept it untill you get better looter and also gear, or you don't.

    All right i'm done here.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSN View Post
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    Sorry for the double post, actually everything work as intended. It is just that MA did not say " hey bitches, go get lvl 100 looter, cuz you're gonna get bad TT return"

    Definitely disagree because that would mean every new player that hunts for many many years is doomed. So of course it doesn't work as you propose. A brand new player on day 1 with an efficient weapon like a Barbella should be getting the expected returns of 95-98%. You can't be thinking that all new players must get 80% for an eternity till 100 looter and very high efficiency are ya?

    You can't say everything is working as intended because there isn't a player in this game that knows how it works! Only MA knows how the code works and only we can say it isn't working because of extremely poor TT % returns. Then they can check to verify their hidden secret code is indeed working.
    The Abomb now has Expert Wood! Level 49 Resource Gatherer - 5,578 RG Skill points
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  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Definitely disagree because that would mean every new player that hunts for many many years is doomed. So of course it doesn't work as you propose. A brand new player on day 1 with an efficient weapon like a Barbella should be getting the expected returns of 95-98%. You can't be thinking that all new players must get 80% for an eternity till 100 looter and very high efficiency are ya?

    You can't say everything is working as intended because there isn't a player in this game that knows how it works! Only MA knows how the code works and only we can say it isn't working because of extremely poor TT % returns. Then they can check to verify their hidden secret code is indeed working.
    No a new player won't get 80%, with 55% eff weapon or something on this range, a new player gonna get around 90%.

    But probably you are right and i'm wrong. I had the expected 97%, then looter came.

    Check this one for exemple : https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?304538-Looter-Skill-Impact-on-Loot

    Anyway i changed nothing and i dont have those result anymore( its a lie ! )

    i improved my efficiency and looter level. Don't count on the result we had before or that MA gave us. Its not the case anymore. Just look at your result man, it is normal ? no it is not. Are you ready to pay and have a huge play time to finaly get a proper looter level and acceptable % return ? Your choise.

    But forget those 97%, anyone with UL gear 65%+ that grind had this before, it mean it is the past. Unless MA change something soon, 0% chance.

    If i'm wrong, i welcome anyone to tell me why ( i wish i'm wrong , but result speak for themself )

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Let me explain how gambling associations view it because this logic is wrong. ( no disrespect )

    Sorry boxes are 100% gambling and setting a TT value doesn't change that. It's still buying a lottery ticket to win a big prize doesn't matter who sets the value it is still considered gambling. Which is why they are being removed from games and cracked down on because the entire nature of boxes is a text book definition of gambling. Loot boxes will be removed from every game. Eventually they will be outlawed here because the dance around this gambling law is coming to an end.

    Don't see it? Well let me paint the picture for you then in an example and why it is gambling!

    Tom buys 50 keys to open his 50 boxes in hopes of getting a shiny Christmas Ring. To no avail he doesn't get one.

    Now Tom knows that is all the money he had to try and get his prize but it calls to him. The precious!!! The ring would totally change his hunting and complete his Avatar!!!!

    Now Tom buys another 50 over extending himself in an attempt to get the Ring. He knows it's coming it has too!! It's been awhile since one dropped!! Again to no avail Tom misses.

    Now Tom is out of Boxes and Keys. So he goes to bed and he is laying there reading and trying to predict the loot waves for a ring and thinking that he can just skip out on paying one bill this month because if he wins this Ring it will change EVERYTHING!!!! (this is what gambling associations look at and define gambling)

    Tom thinks he cracked the code, and is doubling down! Now he buys 100 boxes from a trader and gets 100 keys from the website and starts opening when he thinks the time is right!

    Again Tom misses and doesn't win because he is a gambling addict and the gambling of boxes has claimed another victim.

    Tom now has a late payment on a card and is well on his way to losing the important things in his real life because he gambled. However Tom thought he was sure to win!! If only there weren't boxes that preyed on Tom's gambling addiction with the prize looming over his head.


    This ^^^^ This is why gambling laws are in place and why their associations are removing boxes from video games as they fit perfectly the definition of gambling. It still causes gambling addicts to lose everything. It is still preying on people and in some instances in some video games, children that don't know about gambling or the addiction of it yet. They are 100% gambling because they have a Prize so it preys on people like Tom. Laws are in place to protect gambling addicts like Tom in video games. Which is a good thing, don't you agree?


    If you love boxes fine, if you love gambling fine, just realize they are gambling because you are trying to win a prize and that is the gamble. That is people overspending and taking out mortgages on their house to gamble on boxes. You are buying a ticket for the lottery of winning the big Prize. In Entropia that is a Ring. ( This is why keys can't be bought in some places, eventually it will be no more boxes anywhere. )

    Please understand this, there is no way around it. Loot boxes are gambling because the gamble is the prize. Hope that is clear now
    Harry gets a trial subscription to XYZ MMO. He enjoys it, especially its competitive element. Harry then buys a monthly subscription and plays on weekends. He develops an ambition to get that fine weapon that's the very best one for his class. Harry adds two more months to his subscription and starts playing after work too.
    2 months later, Harry has gained many levels but is not satisfied with the few less-common items he has managed to loot. He wants The Big Purple Sword. Harry buys a 6 month subscription, and then another.... He spends long hours, more days than not, and quickly reaches maximum level. He then devotes his available playtime to raiding the hardest dungeons he can find, in hopes of looting Big Purple. This trend continues. The rest of the pieces that constitute Harry's life go to shit.

    Harry is addicted to XYZ MMO and has put large amounts of money and vast amounts of time into it. He still doesn't have Big Purple, and if he did, it would be fairly meaningless now because Bigger Cyan Facepoker has been discovered and it's oh so much better - 3 of its stat bonuses are 1 point more than Big Purple.

    The issue here is not the precise fact of gambling nor how it is defined (which varies widely between one language and the next). The issue is the well documented adverse effects of both immersion and risk-taking, each taken to egregious excess. This issue matters. But when - not if - some countries outlaw strongboxes, it's because of this bigger issue, not because they necessarily count as gambling (which, under technical scrutiny, they dont, for the same reason Jetsina outlined).

    As I see it we would do better to address the actual issue instead of getting into squabbles about whether X facet of gaming is gambling.

    Cheers.
    .... just one man's opinion

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsina View Post
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    "On why EU isn't gambling: it's an interesting idea that the formulas are set up so that you cannot win. [new add-in edit: formulas include data on each player's specific ped-delta, i.e. balance.] However, noobs can, or could, get the welcome global, for example. It is still possible that it is not classified as winnings, but as a 'present', however - thus still NOT gambling! Guaranteed losses in general, so Yay! Even boxes are not gambling, as the tt value is set. It is the mu - the value to other players - that may get you into profit."
    If I understand it correctly, the hair that gets split is the fact that loot is virtual property, not cash. This is why straight-up peds were removed from loot all those years ago.
    .... just one man's opinion

  10. #290
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    Back on topic, yes the loot needs to get better overall, not only in terms of being more useful but also in terms of tt averaging high enough to let our money buy a satisfying amount of play. And yes, ultimately this is accomplished by our declining to play when it stops being fun.

    I want to thank OP for hosting this conversation, it's one we needed and probably will continue to need.
    .... just one man's opinion

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