Response on Bad Loot and my MA tracked 91% Returns

For fun as I test some higher efficiency and set-ups to try and figure out what is wrong with the loot system. I decided to grab myself an Armatrix SB-60

2403 Ped In
1876 Ped Out
-527

78%

Which seems to be my typical runs right around the 77-82% lately. Yea my skills, gear and knowledge is doing wonders and this is where I completely stop all test and say I'm out till MA fixes their loot. This is on them! The players are just tired and will do something else.

I can harvest, mine and cross skill or just go to the gym more instead of wasting money. I will enjoy other aspects of the game that is either free or obviously more fun then watching my money burn.

Anyone should be able to get the accepted and expected 95-98% returns will way less looter and gear. Again these are averages for the player base, you shouldn't need FEN items to attain these numbers. They are expected without that gear.

Players should be not only doing far better than this but they should also be winning. That is what stimulates growth in this game and it's economy. Withdraws is vital to this games success. It's a win/win for MA. However the deposit every couple days business model and these types of returns will only drive away their loyal depositors. This isn't even close to fun and again I wish you luck out there.

Abomb

Fun (or at least positive feeling) is the key word I guess, otherwise EU will be like a boring second job.

What mob did you go for? One all the way or several different?
Any Knifefighter prof stand that are between 75 and 96% in progression?
 
first of all no one and i mean no one, should have to explain their selves to anyone about their IRL situation or what they do and don't do or justify anything to anyone in any way shape or form, so stop doing that.

Secondly MA should realise that without people like us who have been here 10 years + and have spent a big chunk of money is the reason you got off the ground and to where you are now. Its about time you pulled your finger out and got your act straight and showed some god damn gratitude.

Do you honestly think that everyone wants to withdraw and that's all that matters, Some of us just wanted to progress buy better gear grow further and carry on showing the loyalty that we have been since your coming into existence.

No one is in profit no one is breaking even no one is anything. The only difference is some are confident to admit and others are weak and insecure that people will laugh at them, And the ones laughing let me tell you about them they are a unique kind of stupid, they are the most worse off and they hide it by pointing fingers at others.
 
The game doesn't have to work. The game has to work for you! If it doesn't, do something else with you time! Find something you enjoy, find something before you turn into alukat.

Alukat did withdraw his 300% profit and moved to another game before MA takes all that profit away with the buttload of shit tt-return runs.

People are just better off withdrawing their money and go to play some cheaper game before MA sucks all their money away.
 
first of all no one and i mean no one, should have to explain their selves to anyone about their IRL situation or what they do and don't do or justify anything to anyone in any way shape or form, so stop doing that.

Secondly MA should realise that without people like us who have been here 10 years + and have spent a big chunk of money is the reason you got off the ground and to where you are now. Its about time you pulled your finger out and got your act straight and showed some god damn gratitude.

Do you honestly think that everyone wants to withdraw and that's all that matters, Some of us just wanted to progress buy better gear grow further and carry on showing the loyalty that we have been since your coming into existence.

No one is in profit no one is breaking even no one is anything. The only difference is some are confident to admit and others are weak and insecure that people will laugh at them, And the ones laughing let me tell you about them they are a unique kind of stupid, they are the most worse off and they hide it by pointing fingers at others.
Its quite often due to what kind of personality we have. Those leaning towards or who are narcissists
will often have a "know it all" approach, noticed this quite often at work. Sadly they are not only
"know it all", quite often we can add "but no knowledge about it". :silly2:
I don't know how often this have happened in EU, that this kind of people say I'm totaly wrong with
my theories, but at the same time they have no one themselfs, and if they do, they lack any kind
of logic.
Being a HSP around this kind of people is a curse, due to some abilities we do have.
 
Woah. they given you the tt return.
I asked multiples times for mine as i know its far worse than yours and most of other hunters, as expected, they refused to provide me the ashaming numbers i am getting.
2018 and 2019 were as bad as my low skills days.

Other than that, yeah the loot has been alot less consistant and getting far more 40-70% return on a 1k ped run sample than before loot 2.0.
Though i see the same people managing to get the fat swirl payback on daily-weekly basis.

I also wonder if the decreasing number of active players affect the loot at all.

This isnt the game i joined more than a decade ago. I am clearly out the door if it keeps staying alike.
 
For fun as I test some higher efficiency and set-ups to try and figure out what is wrong with the loot system. I decided to grab myself an Armatrix SB-60

2403 Ped In
1876 Ped Out
-527

78%

If you think you will see a 1% difference on a sample size that small with the high volatility of hunting, you still havent got what bankroll management and smart hunting is.
 
Alukat did withdraw his 300% profit and moved to another game before MA takes all that profit away with the buttload of shit tt-return runs.

People are just better off withdrawing their money and go to play some cheaper game before MA sucks all their money away.

If only Alukat would have moved 300% of his forum posts too... :yay:
 
For fun as I test some higher efficiency and set-ups to try and figure out what is wrong with the loot system. I decided to grab myself an Armatrix SB-60

2403 Ped In
1876 Ped Out
-527

78%

If you think you will see a 1% difference on a sample size that small with the high volatility of hunting, you still havent got what bankroll management and smart hunting is.

Taldur, just to put it in perspective, 2400ped is $240 which is about 2 years worth of most subscription based games - the very fact that you call it a small sample proves how much you are missing the point about the game being massively expensive.

And, unfortunately you are not the expert on bankroll management OR "smart hunting" as with returns of even 95% the smartest option is to not hunt at all and withdraw what cash you have left.
 
the main problem and I experience it myself is that most people work or have families etc and cant hunt/craft etc 24hours a day. I just want for a fairly eff hunt on baby argos by twin peaks for an hour to do rank8 start to finnish.. 250ped ammo used to put it in perspective. all said and done.. down 105ped in 1 hours grinding small mobs. do I have to hunt for the rest of the evening to get back to 95%? or hope for better tomorrow?
 

Forgot to say, we have no buyer power. As there is only one supplier.
 
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Funny. I just sent a support case asking for my last 3 month figures and they told me to go folke myself.
 
the main problem and I experience it myself is that most people work or have families etc and cant hunt/craft etc 24hours a day. I just want for a fairly eff hunt on baby argos by twin peaks for an hour to do rank8 start to finnish.. 250ped ammo used to put it in perspective. all said and done.. down 105ped in 1 hours grinding small mobs. do I have to hunt for the rest of the evening to get back to 95%? or hope for better tomorrow?

Adding to my previous comment...

The problem with the current system and majority of players with active money making lifestyles is they cannot play 24hrs a day and must log out and goto bed most nights with that knot in theyre stomach after a hunt like that asking themselves why they keep playing on a regular basis.

The solution? I have no idea lol. If they were to do 95% return all the time period no matter what you did I think that would eliminate the possibility of globals n hofs etc.

Maybe these are questions MA should be asking the community but to be honest I think that's a move theyre already making with the high eff/dpp gear. You can play super high eff and basically get 95% all the time or normal gear and roll the dice with greater volatility. If they were more open with us on this concept so we better understood our choices it may make things easier on us and them!
 
Funny. I just sent a support case asking for my last 3 month figures and they told me to go folke myself.

yes, same here.

They were to ashamed to to give the figures because they are just to ridiculous.
 
Funny. I just sent a support case asking for my last 3 month figures and they told me to go folke myself.

LOL Stop sending them support tickets for return summary do it yourself, they only have limited worker if you keep them busy asking for returns people who have submitted ticket for critical issue will take more time and people already complain about late to no response on thier tickets :D
 
No, it's normal efficiency. Efficiency with which I got 95-96% tt return over 100's of thousands of peds cycled previous to recently.

91% should only happen with shit like Swine Deluxe.

Something is wrong and the game is fucked up and I'm fed up with it.

swine deluxe does a lot better than 91%, there is very little diff between 81% eff fen and 7.8% eff swine deluxe returns....given time. ;) lol I love how people confuse these new numbers. its one of the better guns out there tbh, and why i got it so cheap lately )

This is the problem with MA coming up with arbitrary efficiency numbers at the top of every item for people to go by.

In reality 2.0 is specifically guns like swine deluxe, and other low eff items (like the ones abomb uses) they are compensating for.

Decay has and always will be a prime factor in loot. When you generate it, you lose it, but also increase the base loot you get back, so when you finally hit a modifier...they break the bank.

The only thing abomb needs to do is find these modifiers, and find them on mobs that aren't oro and werewolf.;) By now you can easily take more challenging mobs that give more overall challenge to your avatar and setup for more optimal gain, especially if you want intuition any time soon.

Einstein once said "“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

Until you swap mobs or change up the scenery....you are having a fit of insanity.

Pay attn to the mob stats, some ratios are important, and we grow out of ranges....
 
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I will say after thinking a little bit that this might showcase something critical to avoid when grinding in this game and why.

A long time ago someone posted some formula for max loot, I cannot find it now but I distinctly remember it being a dev or former dev trying to break the basic formula down.

Simplified.. max loot = stamina x 320 (maybe 360 I forgot)

The actual formula stated max loot was = to stamina x (6-7 variables ) The variables they did not go into much detail on but were %'s or modifiers of some other game variable.

Whatever they are isn't too important as much as it considered multiple things, stamina being the primary factor when considering the loot.

Mobs stamina to hp ratio never changes. The hps are static based on the stamina, and the max loot is based off that.

Now consider this.
You the player started with a hp to stamina ratio as well. But this always changes, it has....entropy. Unless you get more stamina.

You are essentially suffering the consequence of grinding yourself into a hole literally by killing the same mobs over and over gaining more hps over stamina while theirs stays the same.

I don't not know for certain this is whats going on, but I have had this assumption since I saw that formula, and while I have great loot returns on average, I also have 33 stamina to 330 health . And I seriously wonder if stamina is so critical on mob loot, if this isn't why stamina is so hard to get on players.

This is also a big reason I despise codex because I think most people (except perhaps ma) do not realize that attribute gain and its subsequent affects are a primary way to equalize the return over time, on a growing skillset.

17 repeatables on oro though could have picked up a few points of stam on other missions, is the biggest shame I see. Especially when we have only a year or two to get any more via missions before codex kills that off.

I cant attest 100% to the skill gain factor of stamina or other attributes mixed in with a fen item, but the more I get the faster I skill, which is more peds back when sold, and I cant sell enough fast enough to hit net loss of skill.

And skills....are the biggest thing everyone is missing when considering their returns.
 
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I will say after thinking a little bit that this might showcase something critical to avoid when grinding in this game and why.

A long time ago someone posted some formula for max loot, I cannot find it now but I distinctly remember it being a dev or former dev trying to break the basic formula down.

Simplified.. max loot = stamina x 320 (maybe 360 I forgot)

The actual formula stated max loot was = to stamina x (6-7 variables ) The variables they did not go into much detail on but were %'s or modifiers of some other game variable.

Whatever they are isn't too important as much as it considered multiple things, stamina being the primary factor when considering the loot.

Mobs stamina to hp ratio never changes. The hps are static based on the stamina, and the max loot is based off that.

Now consider this.
You the player started with a hp to stamina ratio as well. But this always changes, it has....entropy. Unless you get more stamina.

You are essentially suffering the consequence of grinding yourself into a hole literally by killing the same mobs over and over gaining more hps over stamina while theirs stays the same.

I don't not know for certain this is whats going on, but I have had this assumption since I saw that formula, and while I have great loot returns on average, I also have 33 stamina to 330 health . And I seriously wonder if stamina is so critical on mob loot, if this isn't why stamina is so hard to get on players.

This is also a big reason I despise codex because I think most people (except perhaps ma) do not realize that attribute gain and its subsequent affects are a primary way to equalize the return over time, on a growing skillset.

17 repeatables on oro though could have picked up a few points of stam on other missions, is the biggest shame I see. Especially when we have only a year or two to get any more via missions before codex kills that off.

I cant attest 100% to the skill gain factor of stamina or other attributes mixed in with a fen item, but the more I get the faster I skill, which is more peds back when sold, and I cant sell enough fast enough to hit net loss

Perhaps you might be onto something and some interesting post. Yea I just got stamina hungry at the end of last year and the Oro and other mobs on Ark I grinded were just building skills on my Avatar early. Now I only do stamina missions or attributes since the introduction of the Codex ( the old missions system is better )

I have spent some time on Spiders, Atrox, Rex, Huon, Pop Dragons, Motorhead and those types of mobs but of course no multiplier for me anywhere across the Universe. Just my bank breaking. I am finishing stage 4 Mang Chang only 450 or so left but had to stop as I have never had a HOF on this mob. Just loss of 1,000s of ped.

So a break from hunting it is as I just don't want to deposit anymore in this model. Shame really because financially I am doing better in IRL and have time to play. So I have income to play with but MA took too much from my last paycheck so its a full stop for me. Which is why I address the system we are in. If MA was smart and the returns were better I have a great pay check on the way. However the current system takes to much so why would I deposit with the way things have been the last 3 months?

I probably will finish some cheap stamina missions and if MA seems to start giving me some PED back I might consider depositing again but not until MA actually gives me some loot. I don't like throwing money away and never deposit in this game with the intentions of losing it.

So for now I'll just mostly harvest and finish a few small stam missions and perhaps play some other games. I just don't have any faith to hunt or to deposit to hunt when I know the return might never come. It's a depressing adventure and life is about having fun. This game just isn't much fun the way it is for many players and that saddens me because I think we are here because there is potential for this game to be great one day. (or great like it used to be )

Not gonna be bitter about any money spent because I had fun in the past. It's just the fun is a fleeting memory of the past. I don't see any fun in the future until something changes for the players. Where I can deposit with confidence that I will get what is expected.

I can lose 2 ped an hour on Trees which is relaxing and better than 200 ped an hour on Spiders, Atrox, Levi etc....
Time will tell and I do wish everyone luck. Thanks for your feedback.

Sidenote only 16 stamina and 17 should be on the way. Doesn't seem to help but it looks pretty.


And skills....are the biggest thing everyone is missing when considering their returns.

Yea I have a lot of skills but I will never chip out as that goes against the progression aspect of an MMORPG. So no skills aren't part of return for me but a requirement of the core concept of the game. I would only chip out if I planned to quit forever. So skills are not part of a return and shouldn't be in my eyes.

The only time I ever chipped out was space craft pilot to invest but that is something I wouldn't do again. (even though I made money) If I need to chip out to get the returns I need then there is no point in playing.

I think this is up to MA to restore the faith in the players. Happy players deposit. I think MA can come up with a much better and transparent system that makes players happy to invest their money in this game. Just my thoughts.
 
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i heard the max loot is ur agility * ur psyche * ur strength / ur highest combat prof standing.
 
i heard the max loot is ur agility * ur psyche * ur strength / ur highest combat prof standing.

I enjoyed this comment thanks :laugh: At least we have fun on the forums:wtg:
 
And skills....are the biggest thing everyone is missing when considering their returns.

My returns just got bad with december 2017 VU, that was the VU they striped crafting of most of it's multipliers and made near successes worse.
They tried to adress that issue with the crafting 2.0 but they failed. Crafting is still in a pretty bad state, multipliers are just too rare & small for the 80% base TT-return to produce the 95% TT-return within 100k crafts.

The main determining factor for returns is the base TT-return, multiplier frequency and size ;)
 
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i heard the max loot is ur agility * ur psyche * ur strength / ur highest combat prof standing.

No man, it's perception, it's all about the perception.

Unless you are talking about Mayhem cat 10, then it's all about the bc-120, and I mean *the* bc-120. Unless you have access to that, then fuck you noob.
 
swine deluxe does a lot better than 91%, there is very little diff between 81% eff fen and 7.8% eff swine deluxe returns....given time. ;) lol I love how people confuse these new numbers. its one of the better guns out there tbh, and why i got it so cheap lately )......

Good post on efficiency as people holding efficiency as this carrot on the end of stick as the means to loot is just wrong. It doesn't work that way. Furthermore if you can't get the expected returns with 62% efficiency why would you ever invest more into the game to get 80+? You wouldn't! (Not to mention as you pointed out the difference is negligible ) Besides between 95-98% is supposed to be the Average for the entire player base. Not this lofty goal that requires the best gear in the game to attain. So kudos for making some good points on it and hunting with it.

I don't not know for certain this is whats going on, but I have had this assumption since I saw that formula, and while I have great loot returns on average, I also have 33 stamina to 330 health . And I seriously wonder if stamina is so critical on mob loot, if this isn't why stamina is so hard to get on players.

I don't mind getting 30, 40 or even 100 stamina. Heck the purpose of the game is to get as many attributes and skills as possible. However with Codex as you say and if this is the formula then most of the player base is doomed. I will keep pumping my stamina though and see what happens although this isn't a good model for success either as it eliminates most of the player base from the required returns. Or miners and crafters who want to do some hunting to take a break from their main profession.

Any Pro Miner or Casual hunter should be able to go out and hunt and get the 95-98% it isn't supposed to be hard to hit the average numbers. It's just the expected numbers here, for anyone forgetting that. You literally should be able to buy any weapon off auction and hit at least 95%. So some people need to stop with the illusion that you need a FEN item to be average.
 
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My returns just got bad with december 2017 VU, that was the VU they striped crafting of most of it's multipliers and made near successes worse.
They tried to adress that issue with the crafting 2.0 but they failed. Crafting is still in a pretty bad state, multipliers are just too rare & small for the 80% base TT-return to produce the 95% TT-return within 100k crafts.

The main determining factor for returns is the base TT-return, multiplier frequency and size ;)


hmmm...have you ever tried doing long crafting runs (above 1k clicks) and not do them on Condition ?
I mean, a real crafter wants to sell his produkt at the least cost for himself and does not count in multipliers, which mostly come in play with high losses beacuse of condition crafting.
 
hmmm...have you ever tried doing long crafting runs (above 1k clicks) and not do them on Condition ?
I mean, a real crafter wants to sell his produkt at the least cost for himself and does not count in multipliers, which mostly come in play with high losses beacuse of condition crafting.

If i would be crafting on condition, then i would understand those low returns... unfortunately, it's quantity crafting as well that may end in 5k clicks 80% tt-return runs, i had this happening several times. Maxed out skill-sided and QR ofc.
 
If i would be crafting on condition, then i would understand those low returns... unfortunately, it's quantity crafting as well that may end in 5k clicks 80% tt-return runs, i had this happening several times. Maxed out skill-sided and QR ofc.

sorry...but this seems wrong...so you are saying you have been clicking over 5k of Roadie BLP Amp Mk I (L) since October and did have an overall return rate of 91% at TT (aka not counting the markup of the materials needed)
On Quality crafting the overall return rate is way stable and even if one had some bad runs of 100-200 clicks it would quite soonish return to the roughly 91% through global.
But 80% at TT?
Never had that on a maxed BP with no SiB active after cycling over 7k PEDs.
 
But 80% at TT?

Yep, i had several 5k click runs resulting in about 80% TT-return due to lacks of multipliers. That's a way too long period of being 80% TT-return, for sub 200 clicks i could understand it, but not for 5k clicks.

I even had a period where i was at 90% TT-return for 390k clicks and just made it to 95% TT-return at the 400k click mark. 400k clicks to get 95% tt-return is just way too long when the return untill then is only 90%. If it were like 94% untill actually getting to the 95% tt-return, then it would be somewhat okay.

Just did a few clicks on a 20 PED MU item, that costs 20 PED per click with MU (18.6TT per click):
xtlm4ezb.png


So all the MU goes into MAs pocket due to the 50ish% return near successes... I wish they would at least increase those 50ish% to at least 80% near successes.
 
Yep, i had several 5k click runs resulting in about 80% TT-return due to lacks of multipliers. That's a way too long period of being 80% TT-return, for sub 200 clicks i could understand it, but not for 5k clicks.

I even had a period where i was at 90% TT-return for 390k clicks and just made it to 95% TT-return at the 400k click mark. 400k clicks to get 95% tt-return is just way too long when the return untill then is only 90%. If it were like 94% untill actually getting to the 95% tt-return, then it would be somewhat okay.

Just did a few clicks on a 20 PED MU item, that costs 20 PED per click with MU (18.6TT per click):
xtlm4ezb.png


So all the MU goes into MAs pocket due to the 50ish% return near successes... I wish they would at least increase those 50ish% to at least 80% near successes.

Are we talking now about MU return or TT return ?
3 clicks are absolutely nothing and looking at you overall glabal rate...hell ... I am no "real" crafter and I am not sure if I ever did 390k clicks on all my BPs I used, but I really have the feeling you are mixing things up.
Hell...I can not even understand how someone does not get more globals "accidently" on almost 400k clicks...even if crafting just filters on Quality
 
Are we talking now about MU return or TT return ?

The 5k click & 390k is about tt-return, the screenshot is about TT-return as well to show that even very high MU stuff may result in barely breaking even when you get unlucky with the near successes.
There are multiple issues with crafting.

Entropialife kinda confirms my lack of multipliers.
 
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thanks MindArk for that great skill "perception". Keeps us going the believers
 
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