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  1. #231
    Alpha The Abomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evey View Post
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    These kind of threads are always popular.
    This thread was made 14 days ago, it is one of the most viewed threads on these forums all time already. I would say that is a thread of extreme interest because of where we are currently. To say this is a hot topic would be an understatement. Downplaying everything people say is the hand you always play. Can you just admit that there is an obvious stir in the community right now and maybe take an objective view? It would be healthy, just try it.
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  2. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    ...there is an obvious stir in the community right now ...
    If poor loot comes randomly per player on the basis of normal gaps in getting multis, then you should always find people in a large set that are experiencing this at the same time. However, this type of thread does not always thrive in the way it might be expected to.
    For me, the timing seems pretty much spot on, as usual. I notice a downturn, think grrr, but continue anyway, as I know downturns should come in random distributions, so I just have to keep going. Then the threads start up and I see it's not just me quietly on a bad luck run, but "more" likely a general downturn.

    If this were just a quick 'dawn raid' by MA of a few eggs laid by the chickens, not many people would notice. Except that they have to go and raid all the fridges and food stores and get the villagers upset. That's what it feels like anyway...

    On why EU isn't gambling: it's an interesting idea that the formulas are set up so that you cannot win. However, noobs can, or could, get the welcome global, for example. It is still possible that it is not classified as winnings, but as a 'present', however - thus still NOT gambling! Guaranteed losses in general, so Yay! Even boxes are not gambling, as the tt value is set. It is the mu - the value to other players - that may get you into profit.

    Still, in the long term, it should make little difference to my returns whether they are SET to 90% based on a counter and various multi-triggers if I get too low, or random loots spread out according to a formula which relies on statistics to get me 90% over time.

    The problem is that MA can change the bar whenever they like, and I don't like it being lowered until I can no longer bend back enough to dance beneath it without it hurting. (90% is already way too low for turnovers of hundreds of peds per hour)
    When my back hurts, I stop dancing, like many people seem to. There may be hofs on the other side for the limbo survivors, but is it worth it MA to play this game with us?
    Last edited by jetsina; 01-24-2020 at 01:31.

  3. #233
    Prowler Evey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsina View Post
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    The problem is that MA can change the bar whenever they like, and I don't like it being lowered until I can no longer bend back enough to dance beneath it without it hurting. (90% is already way too low for turnovers of hundreds of peds per hour)
    When my back hurts, I stop dancing, like many people seem to. There may be hofs on the other side for the limbo survivors, but is it worth it MA to play this game with us?
    I don't like that either, yet, we're seeing it after every major event, or towards the end. Lower TT returns are tied up to lower activity. That does not mean there are no PED left, it just means payouts are payed less often (HOFs or good avg. loot) - but they are payed since consistency helps the returns to get back to the 97+% target. This is my observation based on tracking for almost 5 years (8.5mil PED tracked) and as I was saying earlier in this thread, everyone has bad periods, I had a very bad period a year ago of 93.5% after a weapon upgrade with 90+ efficiency and above average looter prof, it didn't last very long (or I was able to push through, because how long a bad streak lasts is a matter of perspective, look at Cirrus, he panics on 300 ped run...)

    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    Playing 300ped and getting 160 back is 55% to me.
    When it happens 3 times in a row, it's still 55%.
    But maybe you use different maths ?

    Please don't do post like this again, where you talk about thing you have no idea about.
    It makes me waste my time and you make a foul of yourself..
    Waste of time is to track and draw your conclusions after 3 runs.
    Don't take it personal, it happens usually on the forums, when you're full of it, people will call you out on your bullshit.

    There are mobs that cost 300 PED that some can solo. Just a couple of days ago I went to mulcibers for some fun, each costs around 260 (huge regen, depends on your DPP) and all of them gave back liek 84 PED. Yes, my tt return was 33% for a few hours, but it means fck all because the run was lookign much different at the end.
    There are weeks during events when I loose 4-6k PED during events, then a HOF happens (when I go through the bad loot) then things get to normal again.

    Loot needs some volatility to make up for the items in loot, the hofs on the board and other mechanics because if loot was more stable, there wouldn't be any more HOFs above 1k, then another wave of DOOMists would raise and call the apocalypse because BS HOFs (I think there is a thread for this recently?).

    My loot is stable so I will never ever get a solo ATH. And probably not even 5digit HOFs.
    Quitting for periods of times will make you miss your payout window so yeah, you may see 90% for extended periods of times, but, as MA stated, high activity is experiencing higher %tt returns.

    Saying 55% is a hunter's return is a retarded conclusion not even gonna ask about how you track, what gear, skills etc. It doesn't exist even short term (a decent day worth of hunting).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    This thread was made 14 days ago, it is one of the most viewed threads on these forums all time already. I would say that is a thread of extreme interest because of where we are currently. To say this is a hot topic would be an understatement. Downplaying everything people say is the hand you always play. Can you just admit that there is an obvious stir in the community right now and maybe take an objective view? It would be healthy, just try it.
    The "extreme" interest comes mostly from the fact that you're a privileged player because you got a clear answer from MA about your returns. Most of us get the copy paste answers, I have dozens of tickets, all copypasta answers. The clear answer you got is not because you wrote some smart shit, on the contrary... you did some bad stuff and MA is trying to tell you to apply the knowledge - obviously not yours, but they can't be more clear that that, they can't tell you to read the fucking forums and learn from people that do it well...

    Someone with some forum experience could make you a huge lists of whining threads, just like this one, after every MM or major events and you can probably spot the same list of people that agrees with the loot is bad. You draw the conclusion. Here's a hint, the list is the same in both Loot 2.0 and in Loot 1.0. Even if went back to 1.0 or to an eventual 3.0, some people will adapt (mostly the same) and the usual suspects will come here demanding their own set of rules for the game and they would fail at that one too.

    Here's a scenario:
    You are in school. You didn't do your homework, you didn't learned the lesson the teacher is asking you about.
    Now, all your classmates (most of them) are whispering you the right answers. You tell them to fo fuck themselves and blame the teacher because you think the education system is broken, because you want to talk about something totally different in her class.

    Another scenario:
    You walk on a street and your money fall out of your pockets; trespassers stop you and warn you, trying to make you keep your money from falling. You tell them to go fuck themselves and blame the government because they are robbing you every day...

    Both of these scenarios apply on some people, they just can't be helped.. even if you have the best intentions, even when you are trying to teach them to not give you (indirectly) money, they will still tell you to go fuck yourself then hand you over their money...

    Do yourself a favor and read this post carefully, it's in your interest.

  4. #234
    Alpha The Abomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evey View Post
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    Lower TT returns are tied up to lower activity.
    Please stop saying this, no it really isn't. Stop telling people to hunt more and it will bring them up to 97% because that isn't true. Your statement is completely wrong. People keep telling you this but then you bring up Smilgs log as fact and it doesn't work that way. If there is no loot there is no loot. Hunting more when there isn't loot will give you 90-92% long term regardless of how much activity there is. You need to be smarter than that, and reduce your hunting. Do something else.

    It's like you read nothing in this thread. Lower TT returns are not tied to lower activity!!! Players have high activity and have low TT %. This is why people don't take you seriously because you just utter the same silly message over and over without listening.

    High hunting activity is generating very low TT returns even if you are using FEN items Let it sink in. Or don't and listen to nothing in this thread or hunters with high activity stating that returns are lower.

    Now lets work on a way to bring up TT % for people that have high hunting activity. Since these are the players that are getting hurt the most. The more activity you have the more you lose which is the current problem. Increasing your hunting activity is literally the worst advice when loot is like this. It will only secure most players bigger losses and then they quit the game. Which is what we are trying to prevent!!

    We want players to stay and new players to join and stay. In order to do that this system NEEDS an overhaul and we need to have some way to prove that things like the looter profession are working. Looter affects need to be visually seen and proven with direct data showing that it is working. That will give hunters confidence in the system and confidence to deposit. Of course returns will be much better if this happens.
    Last edited by The Abomb; 01-24-2020 at 11:10.
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  5. #235
    Elite Kerham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Please stop saying this, no it really isn't.
    He was reffering to overall activity, not only yours. Payouts as hofs are dependant on overall activity not only on one's activity, and no it's not a function of "many players hunting so you see many high multis being taken", it's a function of many multis being spawned because many players hunt. Not sure if I am able to say exactly in English what I mean. Both aspects are important, both your activity and the universe activity and both influence your return.

    Overall, in tt terms the biggest problem is keeping all range of players/mobs/turnover within same set shard, within same universe.

    We know each other and we play entropia for so much time and so on, but in the real world I live in a turnover of 50$ per day is alot, because is real money.

    The biggest pitfall of entropia is exactly the biggest pitfall of gambling (and here I disagree with Tekkie), namely lack of bankroll. If you fall into the pit, it's about losing real money. Which in theory you could recover in a certain manner or have a chance to recover if you would have xxxx $, which usually you (you, the average player) don't.

    And the actual bankroll threshold is also dynamic in itself and depending on the overall activity. And you reach absurd amounts when an AAA title is, what, 200$ per year most expensive case.

    That's where I think the game is wrong. I think it should have some type of instance/planet which to have mobs at, say, 0,5-1 ped a piece, but the skill needed to be towards 100.

    As long as the topend keeps growing, you can only stretch so much a given system on vertical. So there should be some offset on horizontal. I might be wrong also, I know only so much (not) in economics.

  6. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    It happened alooot for the last whole year.
    For your informations I finished about 15 iron and 4/5 bronze only for Caly, just that you get an idea of the sample.. And alot of stage finished also..
    715 missions completed only for Caly actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evey View Post
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    Waste of time is to track and draw your conclusions after 3 runs.
    Don't take it personal, it happens usually on the forums, when you're full of it, people will call you out on your bullshit.
    You're dishonest, you're lying and you're trying to duck the issue.

    Which makes perfect sense considering what I said before about the "happy few" you're part of, the people who have invested so much in the game, who are the only ones who eat the cake with MA.

    You need the small/medium depositors to keep believing and depositing, so that people like you can keep having a piece of it.

    What you say about the 55% return that wouldn't exist is absolutely false.
    I repeat for third times, yes it hapens alot to me on short term. (it can be 15h of hunt on 3 days for example)
    For sure if I take return on 1 whole year it's more than 55, but again this happens very often, that makes average depositors broke very fast (and that's also why you have to TT alot of stuff unfortunately)

    Just be happy you are not in this case.
    Enjoy your good return and stop trying to make it seems like the game is equal for everyone. It's NOT.

    I made a thread more than 1 year ago called "Is this game only for millionaires now ?"
    The answer is YES.
    If you have alot of money to invest ingame, you can doing good, if not, you are doomed to feed the richer players.

    That's how it works.

    Also I perfectly know what I say on this forum won't help me.
    And you perfectly know what you say on this forum is helping you.

  7. #237
    Old Alpha Detritus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    High hunting activity is generating very low TT returns even if you are using FEN items Let it sink in. Or don't and listen to nothing in this thread or hunters with high activity stating that returns are lower.
    Is there any actual data to support this?


    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    Which makes perfect sense considering what I said before about the "happy few" you're part of, the people who have invested so much in the game, who are the only ones who eat the cake with MA.
    ...
    If you have alot of money to invest ingame, you can doing good, if not, you are doomed to feed the richer players.

    There are people doing well with a very modest investment, you just seem to be ignoring that since it doesn't suit your argument.

  8. #238
    Funny how some people can radically change sides for their own interest..


    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    Is there any actual data to support this?
    Stop asking data for everything like a reflex, it's getting stupid..

    There are people doing well with a very modest investment, you just seem to be ignoring that since it doesn't suit your argument.
    Yep I know that, I can do well if I stick on Puny being myself L73.. (if by "doing well" you mean loose only a bit, not earning some)

    But I can't see the point to this..?
    Last edited by ~ Cirrus ~; 01-24-2020 at 13:05.

  9. #239
    Stalker San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    What you say about the 55% return that wouldn't exist is absolutely false.
    You can help yourself and settle this for good by doing the following:

    - Take the tracker here (online or download, instructions ibid.): https://sandals-eu.neocities.org/inv.html

    - Use it to track each and every hunting round at the point just BEFORE you convert your shrapnel to ammo

    - Keep two numbers from each round: the amount spent and the % return, and collect them in a new spreadsheet in two columns. Do this religiously for one month.

    - At the end of the month, take the WEIGHTED average of your returns, i.e. the amount spent on every run is the "weight" of each partial result contribution to your final return. If needed, find tutorials on how to achieve this with your favourite spreadsheet program here: https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch...&pl=opensearch

    If you did all this correctly and can demonstrate that you still arrive at ridiculously low results, you will have a strong point. Until then, you will not get your critics to behave nicely.
    1. I NEVER post off-topic.
    2. If you disagree, go to 1.

  10. #240
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    Hi there Entropians
    i am a player who started playing in 2016. During this time, i had some breaks in playing, so at the end i am not a veteran player, nor a rich one. I used to play EU just for fun.

    What i am actually facing is, in one hand, the crude reality of being forced to depo just for keep playing accordingly with my skills level (i am above 30 in hunting laser skills). In the other hand, i can stick killing low level mobs which can be sustained in time with none or little depo.

    For me it became senseless since is impossible to get fun just killing the same mob than first times in EU, and is near to impossible to take any profit (does not matter which activity). Furthermore, considering the gameplay itself is at least "rudimentary", compared with any other MMOs that actually have good amount of active players. And that is ok for me, i like the grinding, but not at that price... is ridiculous to have to pay hundreds usd/month just to play a grinding game which is absolutly obsolete in several aspects, and in which your money just become nothing as there is no benefit for paying: no in game benefits, no TT returns, several no valuable loot, impossibility of keep stuff in storage, no possibility of take any profit, no fun at all.....


    I am pretty sure i can improve my avatar in order to improve my returns, but again, is senseless, i should spend more than 100$ to buy gear (at higher level it go up to thousands), and after, some more hundreds $ for having ammo to be able to cycle the loads of peds required to what? oh yes that 9x%

    I understand there are players/companies with huge amount of money invested or whatever, and i think is fair they can achieve better results, thats the meaning of progress... but if that means all others players who does not just must be feeders, so there is a problem.

    We probably are a lot of people in similar situation, and probbably thinking similar things.

    And that is just half of the problem... the big problem comes when we talk about new players... Old school gamers can be atracted to this game, but new generation gamers (at least mostly) will never give a chance to this.

    And the worst part is that even giving a chance most of people will leave as soon as noticing they have to deposit more than the price of a new brand AAA game monthly, ofc assuming they "accepted" this "obsolete" game in first stages...

    SO thats all my feeling of playing EU lately. I hope EU will be able to adapt.

    Best regards to all, and please do not forget tha is just my personal feelings and experiences about EU this last months.

    PS: Sorry for my bad english :P
    Last edited by remval; 01-24-2020 at 14:46. Reason: grammatical mistakes

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