The New Implementation of Bad Loot Protection, Loot 2.5 VU

The Abomb

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Abomb Abomb ThePeoplesChamp
With the thread I made 3 days ago that is already at 6k+ views and the hot topic on everyone's minds is (LOOT) getting anywhere between 70-94% returns for a lot of the player base. The goal of this thread is a constructive measure to increase the returns of players that get a very low TT %. While at the same time increasing the value of skilled and geared Uber Hunters. A system to hopefully try to benefit everyone from that first day player to the most skilled grinding 15 hrs a day.


The plan is Bad Loot Protection and the redesign of the Looter skill and how it works. I think every player wants to minimize the bad periods. ( Why no looter from mobs was removed ) It's those bad times that hurt the most and when times are tough your Looter skill should be your knight in shinning armor. It should be there to make sure you can grind out those last 1,000 kills of that mission you are working on.

This new system of Looter skill would then protect you from the lowest amount of TT PED value you can get on a killed mob.

Example- say you kill a mob that cost 1 Ped. You might get back as low as 20 PEC on that mob currently. That's a 20% return on that mob. Of course the answer has been kill 10,000 mobs or more BUT due to RNG and Timing you might never..... ever....ever... get a Global or HOF that recovers you to get to the 95-98% TT returns. It's bad luck!

In a game that deals with real money we don't like the word "luck" because it seems like gambling and that is what MA and the players want to stay away from.

So in the New System if it cost 1 PED to kill a mob the lowest you should get back is 70 PEC On day 1 of a brand new Avatar. (These numbers can all be adjusted and are just examples) However if a brand new player kills a mob and it cost 1 PED he gets back at least 70 PEC. Their PED last longer, they get to higher looter levels and they feel confident to deposit money for better gear because there is a very clear value in their time spent. To skill up, gear up and get better loot and items.

This gets players to deposit and gives them a desire to grind harder and longer. A graph would be like this on 1 ped mobs killed for the Looter skill ( again numbers can be adjusted )

0 Looter = 70 PEC
50 Looter = 80 PEC
100 Looter = 85 Pec (assuming there has to be some diminishing return like in most games)

How does this benefit the Medium hunters or Ubers? Well this allows them to actually hunt bigger mobs and use their awesome Dpp gear and get fun items without such a heavy risk of ruin that is based on luck. We all know the staggering amounts invested in gear, it would be fun to let loose and enjoy it. Get back to the days where you felt confident your skills and gear meant you did well!


Taken from the Loot Thread

What to improve ?
The volatility on big HP mob. This is not sustainable for any players who can't spend 10hr every days in hunt. This is not fair for any casual players and that kill the fun for players who want play for fun on big mobs.
I feel like i'm condamned to kill low HP mobs if i want survive.

This is still foremost and most importantly a video game. It's is a form of entertainment and joy! To give you a break from your real life. When you log in the goal is to have fun!! Whether you are level 1 or 100 and the amount of fun you have shouldn't be dependent on your Credit Card limit.

This change also addresses the volatility of Big HP mobs where if you have 2 hours after work you can Deposit, get together with your friends and hunt big! We want to increase the hunting activity in the game overall for everyone. Which of course does wonders for events and making them far more competitive. More activity is great for the economy and it trickles into helping mining and crafting. More items need to be tiered, more materials are needed. Also Deed and Share returns :wtg:

Finally when a player literally sees his looter skill working that is an amazing feeling!! You feel confident about your deposits to have fun. When players are happy they deposit. My hope one day is when we look on Entropia LIfe and see active hunters that instead of it always being 3-4k that finally that number goes up to 5 or 10k or higher. More players and activity only benefits everyone and allows MA to have increased revenue to design really fun stuff for us in upcoming VU's. It's a circle, feeling the flow :cool:

I know some people might try to pick apart the suggested changes. However remember the goal, it's to increase our player base and keep the players that been here for years! Obviously this is a real rough draft of making the looter skill far more valuable and most importantly noticeable while playing. So any other suggestions are welcomed but please keep it constructive.

In closing Dpp will still be extremely valuable in taking your gameplay to the next level as that changes your loot composition. This allows you to invest in some fun items (key word invest) which will give you MU and reduce the fear of playing the game and hunting the mobs that you bought that gear for.

Thanks

Abomb The People's Champ
 
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15 years of threads about loot, almost daily.

And people still try to reinvent the wheel... :eureka:
 
Taking out the lows takes out the highs at the same time, therefore, no lows = no highs.

I hear you brother, lots of people I know in game are complaining about loot right now... But if you propose to flatten the returns for everyone to a steady 96%-98%, you are changing the core concept of the game and all the people who currently play in hopes of hitting a big HoF will no longer have any interest to play.
 
15 years of threads about loot, almost daily.

And people still try to reinvent the wheel... :eureka:

Just like loot 1.0 there will be somthing that replaces it. Loot 3.0 and so on is inevitable. Games are always changing and evolving.
 
0 Looter = 70 PEC
50 Looter = 80 PEC
100 Looter = 85 Pec (assuming there has to be some diminishing return like in most games)

that's pretty bad too.

Maybe try an entirely different approach.
The long term return is, let's say 98%, for everyone regardless of looter skill or weapons efficiency.
Everyone get 93% back garantueed per kill , the remaining 5% go into globals & hofs aka multipliers.

Looter skill determines loot composition, the higher skill, the better the composition and/or even gate certain loot behind a certain looter level.

DPP & avoiding overkill will still have value because it allows to kill more mobs per ped and by this increasing the chance to make it to the multiplier.
 
Just like loot 1.0 there will be somthing that replaces it. Loot 3.0 and so on is inevitable. Games are always changing and evolving.

Loot 2.0 is already the worst thing that happened to this game, so I really hope that 3.0 would not make return even flatter.. And that it would be more of a step backwards.

I don't get what you ask for guys..
Alukat best example, the guy made 1000 post to ask for the same stupidity.
A game whith no winner and no looser.

Let's get 0.985PED back whatever you do that cost 1PED.
Wow what a nice game.. what a challenge.. so many possiblilities.. Everything can happens.. (or nothing ?)

Alukat, like many people, you confuse fairness whith equality.
When you play poker, fairnesss is when each player has an equal chance of receiving a good hand.
Equality would be that everyone always get exact same hand.

What you are asking again and again is to play poker whith a deck of 52 identical cards.. Why not 52 King of hearts.
Game would be so exciting, right ?..

Sorry to say, but that is plain stupid.


MA please make this game challenging AND rewarding again.
 
I don't get what you ask for guys..
Alukat best example, the guy made 1000 post to ask for the same stupidity.
A game whith no winner and no looser.

Let's get 0.985PED back whatever you do that cost 1PED.
Wow what a nice game.. what a challenge.. so many possiblilities.. Everything can happens.. (or nothing ?)

Alukat, like many people, you confuse fairness whith equality.
When you play poker, fairnesss is when each player has an equal chance of receiving a good hand.
Equality would be that everyone always get exact same hand.

What you are asking again and again is to play poker whith a deck of 52 identical cards.. Why not 52 King of hearts.
Game would be so exciting, right ?..

Sorry to say, but that is plain stupid.


MA please make this game challenging AND rewarding again.

To assume that there would be no winners or loosers is just stupid of you.
If the MU of the equipment is too high for the loot of the mob/current market value, then that person is still gonna be a looser.
For winning/loosing the knowledge about loot composition & market value will be the most important factor instead of winning being down to dumb luck.

What you're asking for is entropia being a high-risk casino.
 
I have some ideas on how to improve the game:
1. Every mob should give fixed loot of 0.98pec for each 1 ped spent, no swirls unless you hunt over 50 ped mobs.
2. MA should add an auto hunt like crafting, you should add the the mob and the gear like you add the bp and mats and start auto clicking.
3. Make a server where the peds are play money and pay a monthly subscription.

Its a game not a job so you can quit at any time and go make some money IRL.
 
Nothing will change and nobody from MA will answer to you. :wtg:

Sometimes I think that being community manager in MindArk is a dream job. You only post some "we are working on solving this issue" after every VU when your collegues fukk up things.

Come to work, read some forum, drink tea, have fika with other employees for the rest of the day and go home :smoke:

Beautiful! MA pls hire me I am making best fika ever!!! :yay: :yay: :yay:
 
To assume that there would be no winners or loosers is just stupid of you.
If the MU of the equipment is too high for the loot of the mob/current market value, then that person is still gonna be a looser.
For winning/loosing the knowledge about loot composition & market value will be the most important factor instead of winning being down to dumb luck.

What you're asking for is entropia being a high-risk casino.

First you should take some time to think before you answer.
Because you usually tell people over and over again that they are trying to turn a post about the TT return into something about the MU.
But since you have no argument and you are just answering cause of your ego hurts, you just do it yourself here... :rolleyes:

And who talked about luck here ?
Certainly not me, since I repeated enough that there is no such thing as "luck" in EU.

Also you say I want EU to be a casino when reading my conclusion "MA please make this game challenging AND rewarding again."

What is wrong whith your way of thinking ?
It tells the exact opposite..

What should be rewarded in EU is indeed "knowledge", experience, involvement, etc..

Again, let your ego aside, and think twice before you talk, then maybe the discussion would become interesting..
Stop talking just to make it looks like you are right.
Reality is a fact.
 
Taking out the lows takes out the highs at the same time, therefore, no lows = no highs.

I hear you brother, lots of people I know in game are complaining about loot right now... But if you propose to flatten the returns for everyone to a steady 96%-98%, you are changing the core concept of the game and all the people who currently play in hopes of hitting a big HoF will no longer have any interest to play.

I guess this sums it up.

Also, if such a change would be implemented, what else should we complain about??

I think MA should just be fair, get a gambling license, and just admit that Entropia is just a big casino with a bit of MU flavour where the house has set the rake to an average of 5%.

Then at least we all know what we're up to. No illusions, no hidden tricks.
 
I guess this sums it up.

Also, if such a change would be implemented, what else should we complain about??

I think MA should just be fair, get a gambling license, and just admit that Entropia is just a big casino with a bit of MU flavour where the house has set the rake to an average of 5%.

Then at least we all know what we're up to. No illusions, no hidden tricks.

You don't live in EU do you? :laugh:
 
The plan is Bad Loot Protection...


Maybe MA can offer bad loot insurance. :rolleyes:

You can buy "bad loot insurance pill" for 5 ped.
The next 100 ped (ammo/decay/faparmour etc) spent will give you a guaranteed 100 ped shrapnel back.

Or an "Adjusted bad loot pill" for 45 ped, for the next 1000 ped spend.

That way you will have your 95% guaranteed loot back at the cost of loot diversity (so nu MU). :smoke:


As this is optional, it gives people the choice, will I "gamble" for less (or more) returns with possible nice MU, or do I just go for a steady 95% tt return without MU.

That way you can cater everybody!!
 
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What should be rewarded in EU is indeed "knowledge", experience, involvement, etc..

I agree, but that's not the way the game is atm and neither would be what you're asking for.
Currently it's just down to luck whether or not you get the necessary multipliers, so winning/loosing is just down to gambling and that needs to change.
My last runs were all between 66-80% TT-return, so despite the fact that i got more MU out of it than i paid for the materials i was having a big loss and that's not my fault, it's the fault of the game & the super low tt-return it produced.

Getting lucky at the slot machine to actually get the multipliers necessary for 95% isn't rewarding knowledge, experience or involvement.

You're confusing luck for knowledge & experience.
 
Please Ludvig if you read this consider my offer. Remeber - I.make.best.fikka.ever.

cinamon buns and cheesecake!

/Offtop end

EU must stay away from gambling as far as possible and watch for rioting players (including myself) who are just tired of boredom, lack of excitement. Loot 2.0 is a disasteeer. Keep EU extremely profitable for yourself. Keep your shrinking playerpase happy!
 
I agree, but that's not the way the game is atm and neither would be what you're asking for.
Currently it's just down to luck whether or not you get the necessary multipliers, so winning/loosing is just down to gambling and that needs to change.
My last runs were all between 66-80% TT-return, so despite the fact that i got more MU out of it than i paid for the materials i was having a big loss and that's not my fault, it's the fault of the game & the super low tt-return it produced.

Getting lucky at the slot machine to actually get the multipliers necessary for 95% isn't rewarding knowledge, experience or involvement.

You're confusing luck for knowledge & experience.

I'm glad that we agree on something.

And yes, I said that knowledge and co. SHOULD be rewarded.
That is not how it works now, and that's sad..
Actually knowledge is useless, involvement is useless, experience is useless, and even skills are pretty much useless..

Now, IMO, what is get you stuck in this game is that you still believe in "luck".
The "big ones" that helps you get close to 95%, that comes or not, are not luck.
It's set to "looks like" luck.
It works perfectly fine from MA's point of view.

The day you'll understand that "random factor" in EU is very close to absolute ZERO, you'll start doing better.
 
I'm glad that we agree on something.

And yes, I said that knowledge and co. SHOULD be rewarded.
That is not how it works now, and that's sad..
Actually knowledge is useless, involvement is useless, experience is useless, and even skills are pretty much useless..

Now, IMO, what is get you stuck in this game is that you still believe in "luck".
The "big ones" that helps you get close to 95%, that comes or not, are not luck.
It's set to "looks like" luck.
It works perfectly fine from MA's point of view.

The day you'll understand that "random factor" in EU is very close to absolute ZERO, you'll start doing better.

Once it takes 50k clicks to see 95% return, once it takes 15k clicks to see 95% return, once it takes 130k clicks to see 95% return, once it takes 400k clicks to see 95%...
If it constantly takes only 15k clicks, then you're lucky.
if it takes you 400k clicks, then you're unlucky.

it's simple as that. TT-returns and by this winning/loosing is just down to luck.
And you even agreed in the beginning of your post that it's down to luck and not to knowledge or something like that.

Oh and btw, i'm not stuck in this game, i'm mainly playing some other MMO atm and just check in every now and then if EU finally got better or if it's still pure gambling.
 
Once it takes 50k clicks to see 95% return, once it takes 15k clicks to see 95% return, once it takes 130k clicks to see 95% return, once it takes 400k clicks to see 95%...
If it constantly takes only 15k clicks, then you're lucky.
if it takes you 400k clicks, then you're unlucky.

it's simple as that. TT-returns and by this winning/loosing is just down to luck.
And you even agreed in the beginning of your post that it's down to luck and not to knowledge or something like that.

Oh and btw, i'm not stuck in this game, i'm mainly playing some other MMO atm and just check in every now and then if EU finally got better or if it's still pure gambling.

Well well..

OK, then.. Good "Luck". :rolleyes:
 
Oh, and in the end I'm glad people have to wait to get their long-awaited 95% return..
Since in the meanwhile it's what give me the possibility to expect a 120% return.

Different people, different expectation.. :D
 
Oh, and in the end I'm glad people have to wait to get their long-awaited 95% return..
Since in the meanwhile it's what give me the possibility to expect a 120% return.

If the minimum return gets set to 93% and the long term return to 98% , then the 120% return can still happen.
The minimum return of 93% just prevents getting less than 93% , it doesn't prevent getting more than 100% ;)
 
If the minimum return gets set to 93% and the long term return to 98% , then the 120% return can still happen.
The minimum return of 93% just prevents getting less than 93% , it doesn't prevent getting more than 100% ;)

Whith what money ? :scratch2:

After MA's cut is taken, Deeds dividend are paid out, etc..

Do you plan to donate to MA in order to keep some winners ingame ? :confused:
 
Just like loot 1.0 there will be somthing that replaces it. Loot 3.0 and so on is inevitable. Games are always changing and evolving.

But Loot 1.0 isn't realy replaced, the system is just "optimized and improved". ;)
Basics are still the same, imo.
 
I think what we need is more MU, and that is generated by demand on crafted items. Maybe more loot variety for smaller mobs that would be used to craft something new and popular. But who is going to buy, and how are you going to attract consumers with purchasing power, the community can only do so much in thins respect. So we need the game to be more appealing to new players, enough for them to stay and become active participants in the economy at some point. Graphics update is a step in this direction.

When people start to play, most of them are not ready to deposit just yet. And then when they see that their loot is less than the amount of ammo they had, this includes ammo from missions, gauntlet, mentor assistance etc., there's a legitimate question that comes to mind. I'm no saying that everyone should get 100% returns, but at least we should know that it is not impossible in theory, that it's a vast universe with vast possibilities.

Moreover, new players cannot take full advantage of the pathetic markup they have on their loot cuz of small stacks, and they can often be abused by scammers. I think that attracting more players is the way to boost the economy, thus generating more markup and more fun for everyone. TT-returns could be better tho, I'm sure they were better last year, so something must have changed.
 
I think what we need is more MU, and that is generated by demand on crafted items.

There's actually quite a lot of demand on crafted items, but they're often too risky to craft with the way the game is currently designed. That's true especially for items with a yearly demand of 15-50 units.
 
The entire game is based on the jackpot mentality.

Lights, sounds, and HoF boards provide reinforcement for spending PEDs.

For there to be jackpot winners there must be losers.

That is the game. It always has been this way and always will.
 
Taking out the lows takes out the highs at the same time, therefore, no lows = no highs.

I hear you brother, lots of people I know in game are complaining about loot right now... But if you propose to flatten the returns for everyone to a steady 96%-98%, you are changing the core concept of the game and all the people who currently play in hopes of hitting a big HoF will no longer have any interest to play.

Strongly disagree. There has to be a happy medium because when Big HOF or ATH's only bring you up to where you should of been the whole time. They lose their excitement and value because you are so bitter it's like thanks but no thanks. Then when you do finally hit instead of investing, you withdraw and possibly never come back. That is a bad business model. You get more players with honey and steady returns so they can actually immerse themselves into an MMORPG for the long haul. To make friends and stay for many years.

Like many players, I rather just be able to play and enjoy the game. To complete missions and explore all the game has to offer without losing non stop. It currently isn't possible ( again bad business model ) for growing a game.


I still think the name of the game should be MU and I rather HOFs take the form of ESI, Rare loot instead of just TT value and shrap. Then having a much better steady return so you can play the game. This gives this game good PR instead of the Casino/Scam label it always gets from irritated players. I can't fault the players that feel this way which is why something has to change.

If this game doubled it's small player population it would do wonders for the game long term looking into the future. There can still be a way to deliver that feeling of scoring awesome loot where you are winning without the pain of unbearable losses. It really is possible to achieve. Then once we achieve it MA revenues will soar and the player base will grow because there is a far better sustainability. Then the game gets very positive revues and attracts more depositing players!

The best Real Money game I have played was Diablo 3. The only cost was the price of the game. You could achieve the best gear with time and effort for free. Then just playing the game when that legendary items dropped and that orange beam reached up to the heavens you went to the real money auction and listed it. The cost was zero and you farmed mobs for the chance of rare loot and selling it to other players. It was fun and exciting without the low times. Well the low times took the form of droughts of no items dropping so the investment was time. However this was a pure MU approach. The players set the price on gear and it was a decision to invest the time to farm for it or just buy it off Auction.

Fun fact one of the most expensive weapons ever sold in a game was from Diablo 3. Think that person was sad that scored that item in a game with 100% TT returns?

So Diablo was a game where it was always 100% return and the HOFs were these Set and Legendary items that would drop which was all profit. You saying that when that happened in that game people weren't excited? Of course they were. There was no risk because it was a game and all profit because there were millions of players wanting gear. Supply and Demand because of a huge players base. (obviously Diablo being based out of California ran into some legal issues with a real money Auction) Something MA has nothing to fear currently.

With that said, even if TT returns were 100% MA would still make more money. They would make more money because deposits would then go towards achieving the best gear in game to cycle for rare loots or investments. Instead of just cycling and losing then leaving.

So again I respectfully disagree. Stabilizing loot so you enjoy a game and invest in the future is the way to go. Higher TT returns is the answer for everyone and growing the population. Then the HOF's take the form of Rare loot. I 100% guarantee you that more players will play with that model than this current one where the lows dwindle the population and makes it feel like a Casino.

Like I said TT return could be 100% and that would be a very profitable model for MA. So getting us to a higher TT will always be the answer. All we need are some game Devs to give us that platform and that will be the real money game that changes the future of gaming.

If there was 100% TT returns things like ESI's could have 0 TT value and just pure MU. It's possible. Things like Looter skill could increase the chance of Rare loot. Maybe skills in this game increase in value instead of drop.

So lets just increase TT returns so players can play the game, thanks! It really is the best answer. Any gaming company comes out with this model first, wins.
 
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Whith what money ? :scratch2:

After MA's cut is taken, Deeds dividend are paid out, etc..

Do you plan to donate to MA in order to keep some winners ingame ? :confused:

Deeds don't have to pay out daily... Item info screens on deeds have changed at least 2 times in the past... potentially they could be changed again in the future.
 
For what it's worth: A month ago I applied my knowledge on loot 2.0 in an online casino and ended with 13 000 ped in pure winnings. I only played 2-4 ped equivalent stakes. With a 3rd party guaranteeing the software, I took the casino's face value of 96-97% return and made profit. Sure, a bit of luck, but this would never happen in EU. Big mobs will take most people's bank roll - or you need 20000 + ped just to hunt atrox to avoid ruin. 5x the bank roll needed in a casino. Without the loot improving, I know where to go with my money to have some actual FUN. And not having to tie up said 20k. So yeah, higher return for the average L40 looted, 67 efficiency player is a must to keep the game going forward. MA had spent too much of their revenue on Bullshit projects and dividends. Gotta change.
 
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