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  1. #31
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Strongly disagree. There has to be a happy medium because when Big HOF or ATH's only bring you up to where you should of been the whole time. They lose their excitement and value because you are so bitter it's like thanks but no thanks. Then when you do finally hit instead of investing, you withdraw and possibly never come back. That is a bad business model. You get more players with honey and steady returns so they can actually immerse themselves into an MMORPG for the long haul. To make friends and stay for many years.

    Like many players, I rather just be able to play and enjoy the game. To complete missions and explore all the game has to offer without losing non stop. It currently isn't possible ( again bad business model ) for growing a game.
    All you need to do to achieve that is hunt smaller, but you aren't doing that... I wonder why...

    My favorite mobs to hunt are level 8-10, because if I have a bad run, it's really inconsequential to my budget/bankroll, and at that level, it's still possible to have some decent Globals & HoFs.

    And at that level, the 'price' to play is still 'fair', even if I have several bad runs that month.

    There's also sooooo many opportunities in Entropia to make up your losses, for example OLA Events, where large PED prizes are handed out routinely, Monria Events, at least once a month, where nice prizes are handed out almost every hour during the event, rare pets you can tame on Ark and RT and sell for hundreds of PEDs, mentoring, ...

    In fact, I would go so far as to say, if you aren't at least breaking even, you're just lazy or you are here to gamble your money away, period. I've turned 20k into over 40k (that is us dollars, and no, never had any Land Areas or Bank) this last decade so it is possible.

    Legends

    PS: I'm currently accepting Disciples if anyone is interested to learn how to play smart
    Last edited by Legends; 01-15-2020 at 01:01.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    My favorite mobs to hunt are level 8-10, because if I have a bad run, it's really inconsequential to my budget/bankroll, and at that level, it's still possible to have some decent Globals & HoFs.
    level 8-10 mobs may only have bad MU stuff.
    level 20-40 mobs may have good MU stuff.

    See why people may go for higher mobs?.

    I'm pretty sure you could even go broke on those level 8-10 mobs if you get a super long bad streak.

    and telling level 50+ players to stick to level 8-10 mobs just because MA fucked up the returns & volatility, i don't even...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    All you need to do to achieve that is hunt smaller, but you aren't doing that... I wonder why...

    My favorite mobs to hunt are level 8-10, because if I have a bad run, it's really inconsequential to my budget/bankroll, and at that level, it's still possible to have some decent Globals & HoFs.

    And at that level, the 'price' to play is still 'fair', even if I have several bad runs that month.

    There's also sooooo many opportunities in Entropia to make up your losses, for example OLA Events, where large PED prizes are handed out routinely, Monria Events, at least once a month, where nice prizes are handed out almost every hour during the event, rare pets you can tame on Ark and RT and sell for hundreds of PEDs, mentoring, ...

    In fact, I would go so far as to say, if you aren't at least breaking even, you're just lazy or you are here to gamble your money away, period. I've turned 20k into over 40k (that is us dollars, and no, never had any Land Areas or Bank) this last decade so it is possible.

    Legends

    PS: I'm currently accepting Disciples if anyone is interested to learn how to play smart
    You obviously missed the part where I said ive killed millions of mobs all over. I usually grind small mobs to skill on every planet. Who said i don't kill small mobs? Heck ive done stage 6 oro now 17 times. Bronze molisk, merp, kerb, foul, rippersnapper etc etc. I have done 100s of stage 5 and 6 small missions all over.

    This isn't a solution to the problem lol.....sigh.
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  4. #34
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alukat123 View Post
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    level 8-10 mobs may only have bad MU stuff.
    level 20-40 mobs may have good MU stuff.

    See why people may go for higher mobs?.

    I'm pretty sure you could even go broke on those level 8-10 mobs if you get a super long bad streak.

    and telling level 50+ players to stick to level 8-10 mobs just because MA fucked up the returns & volatility, i don't even...
    I feel like that's a separate issue. The fact that the way the game is currently designed, hunters will eventually get pushed into a level of mob that their budgets/bankroll cannot afford to hunt. That is a separate issue and the very fact that we are seeing all these ubers giving away their skills for free serves as evidence that this is indeed an issue. While some might say that they are giving away their skills so they can compete in a lower category in Mayhem, I would maintain that if competing in Cat 10 was cheaper, they might try anyway.

    I think the way MA has been giving away skills the last decade is not sustainable in the long run, all it's doing is making the skills worthless since they are so easy to get and everybody just ends up with too much skills.

    MA should make it possible for players to TT certain skills. Or make skill loss possible instead of the current paradigm where players only gain skills.

    Anyway this is a huge flaw in the current game, it is only a matter of time before a player hits the level at which he/she can no longer afford to hunt, because generally speaking, the higher the level of the mob is, the more expensive it is to kill. People who work minimum wage jobs cannot hunt at the level that Messi91, joda, solo and smilgs play, there's just no way. So how do you change this?

    One could say, well just because you are higher level doesn't mean you HAVE to hunt the higher level mobs. But obviously, that goes against human behavior and instinct.

    To be honest, not sure how to solve that one. And even if you flatten everyone's returns to a steady 98%, eventually, that 2% will get to be too big as well. Imagine a level 500 killing mobs that cost 100 PED to kill, where the 2% on a 5 hour hunt becomes $100 (1k PED). Still not sustainable.

    Any idea you put forth, once you scale it, becomes unsustainable.

    You want to give everybody 100% return? How is that sustainable? And where's the fun in that? There'd be no point at all...

    No, I think the biggest improvement MA could make right now is to figure out a better system for skill transfers and/or skill deletion (TT'ing), that would give the skills value back to the players who earned them to do with them as they please, cash them in or sell them. Right now this is too hard to do (requires too much PED).

    Legends
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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    All you need to do to achieve that is hunt smaller, but you aren't doing that... I wonder why...

    My favorite mobs to hunt are level 8-10, because if I have a bad run, it's really inconsequential to my budget/bankroll, and..."

    In fact, I would go so far as to say, if you aren't at least breaking even, you're just lazy or you are here to gamble your money away, period. I've turned 20k into over 40k (that is us dollars, and no, never had any Land Areas or Bank) this last decade so it is possible.

    Legends

    PS: I'm cu
    And how much of the profit was 2.0? By killing even the best MU mobs low level, 100k+, looter profession + efficiency will still leave 95% of the player base in a loss. I have a good understanding of bank roll management. Personally I assume a 5000x kill cost bank roll for a mob to be sustainable. Even when sticking to good practices, even looting a shopkeeper at one point, balance turns red. 50 % of losses stems from Mayhems (tt loss + MU for enhancers, pills), but that's ok, because I am in it for the fun. But the grinding part...unless u r exploiting some bug, profits like yours aren't possible anymore..nor should they be, but that is past the point. Point is: you are an anomaly, and not reflecting what most players experience in terms of losses, even with good practices and know-how.

  6. #36
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    Maybe i sound a bit off topic, but not so much.

    We are talking about cost to play, and your return are not acceptable, each time it has happened to me, i left for some months. and it happened in december, 92% return mining, and for 2020 currently this is not very great ( much less than 92% sadly, always been more or less 97% before ), i wait if i can hit something big to cover the loose.

    I believe any player should get 96% as a bare minimum ( on a substential turnover, or loot event or whatever ). Getting 100% or very close to 100% should be based on efficiency + looter level. ( already the case, but no one exactly know looter are working, not %, even after some test done there )

    Knowledge ( MU ) is something else.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    I feel like that's a separate issue. The fact that the way the game is currently designed, hunters will eventually get pushed into a level of mob that their budgets/bankroll cannot afford to hunt. That is a separate issue and the very fact that we are seeing all these ubers giving away their skills for free serves as evidence that this is indeed an issue. While some might say that they are giving away their skills so they can compete in a lower category in Mayhem, I would maintain that if competing in Cat 10 was cheaper, they might try anyway.

    I think the way MA has been giving away skills the last decade is not sustainable in the long run, all it's doing is making the skills worthless since they are so easy to get and everybody just ends up with too much skills.

    MA should make it possible for players to TT certain skills. Or make skill loss possible instead of the current paradigm where players only gain skills.

    Anyway this is a huge flaw in the current game, it is only a matter of time before a player hits the level at which he/she can no longer afford to hunt, because generally speaking, the higher the level of the mob is, the more expensive it is to kill. People who work minimum wage jobs cannot hunt at the level that Messi91, joda, solo and smilgs play, there's just no way. So how do you change this?

    One could say, well just because you are higher level doesn't mean you HAVE to hunt the higher level mobs. But obviously, that goes against human behavior and instinct.

    To be honest, not sure how to solve that one. And even if you flatten everyone's returns to a steady 98%, eventually, that 2% will get to be too big as well. Imagine a level 500 killing mobs that cost 100 PED to kill, where the 2% on a 5 hour hunt becomes $100 (1k PED). Still not sustainable.

    Any idea you put forth, once you scale it, becomes unsustainable.

    You want to give everybody 100% return? How is that sustainable? And where's the fun in that? There'd be no point at all...

    No, I think the biggest improvement MA could make right now is to figure out a better system for skill transfers and/or skill deletion (TT'ing), that would give the skills value back to the players who earned them to do with them as they please, cash them in or sell them. Right now this is too hard to do (requires too much PED).

    Legends
    first, i agree, the skill gains on hunting are way to fast...
    just compare it to crafting, crafting still has skills that have up 6k% MU, but then, in the time you get 10% for the level up on crafting you may get 1-2 levels on a hunting skill.
    hunting skill gain certainly needs a nerf down to crafting skill gain levels, imo.

    second, i disagree about the fun part, getting only 90% tt-return is certainly a lot less fun than getting 100% tt-return. You have more fun getting 90 or even 95% TT-return instead of 100% tt-return? i highly doubt that.
    When i did my crafting runs the fun came from looting those very high MU (L) BPs or UL BPs and not from having big tt-loss in that run. Same applies to hunting, looting that rare/high MU stuff is where the fun comes from, not the TT-loss... and the other fun aspect on hunting is to simply go on a killing spree.

  8. #38
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alukat123 View Post
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    first, i agree, the skill gains on hunting are way to fast...
    just compare it to crafting, crafting still has skills that have up 6k% MU, but then, in the time you get 10% for the level up on crafting you may get 1-2 levels on a hunting skill.
    hunting skill gain certainly needs a nerf down to crafting skill gain levels, imo.

    second, i disagree about the fun part, getting only 90% tt-return is certainly a lot less fun than getting 100% tt-return. You have more fun getting 90 or even 95% TT-return instead of 100% tt-return? i highly doubt that.
    When i did my crafting runs the fun came from looting those very high MU (L) BPs or UL BPs and not from having big tt-loss in that run. Same applies to hunting, looting that rare/high MU stuff is where the fun comes from, not the TT-loss... and the other fun aspect on hunting is to simply go on a killing spree.
    Yeah but if you flatten everyone's returns to 100%, that means you are taking out the lows, and if you take out the lows, you also eliminate the highs (the globals and HoFs), so that's what I mean. There would literally be no point at all. What would be the point? People hunt, mine and craft in the hopes of hitting big. If there's no chance then there's no interest to do it anymore.

    I really don't understand where the PED is supposed to come from for the Globals and HoFs in your dream world where everyone gets 98%+ TT return on their hunting... Is MindArk supposed to just pay people now to play Entropia?

    Think of it as a zero-sum game. For someone to win (Globals, HoFs, and returns above 100%), others have to lose. If everyone is flat at 98%, where's the PED gonna come from...?
    Check out my blog: Legends' Hunting Blog! and also our Society ad: DIRTY DINGOs
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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    Yeah but if you flatten everyone's returns to 100%, that means you are taking out the lows, and if you take out the lows, you also eliminate the highs (the globals and HoFs), so that's what I mean. There would literally be no point at all. What would be the point? People hunt, mine and craft in the hopes of hitting big. If there's no chance then there's no interest to do it anymore.

    I really don't understand where the PED is supposed to come from for the Globals and HoFs in your dream world where everyone gets 98%+ TT return on their hunting... Is MindArk supposed to just pay people now to play Entropia?

    Think of it as a zero-sum game. For someone to win (Globals, HoFs, and returns above 100%), others have to lose. If everyone is flat at 98%, where's the PED gonna come from...?
    All your statements are wrong.
    1.) nobody asked for getting 100% TT-return on every kill/drop/craft
    2.) currently you must hope to hit something big, simply because without hitting big the tt-return is quite trash
    3.) personally, i, and i guess most people, hunt/mine/craft in hopes to loot the high MU stuff.
    4.) even if you up the minimum TT-return from 60-80% to 95% TT-return and set the long term return to 100%, then there's still room for globals/hofs. The periods between the big hofs just aren't as frustrating anymore.
    5.) why do you assume MA would have to pay the people to play? That makes no sense at all. They still take depo/withdrawal/auction fees and they pay the players nothing at all, because all the MU is being paid by other players not by MA.
    6.) it's not a zero-sum game, at least i hope so, because if they designed it as zero-sum that would suck hardcore. And the peds come from people who depo, just like they are now.
    Last edited by Alukat123; 01-15-2020 at 21:14.

  10. #40
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alukat123 View Post
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    All your statements are wrong.
    1.) nobody asked for getting 100% TT-return on every kill/drop/craft
    2.) currently you must hope to hit something big, simply because without hitting big the tt-return is quite trash
    3.) personally, i, and i guess most people, hunt/mine/craft in hopes to loot the high MU stuff.
    4.) even if you up the minimum TT-return from 60-80% to 95% TT-return and set the long term return to 100%, then there's still room for globals/hofs. The periods between the big hofs just aren't as frustrating anymore.
    5.) why do you assume MA would have to pay the people to play? That makes no sense at all. They still take depo/withdrawal/auction fees and they pay the players nothing at all, because all the MU is being paid by other players not by MA.
    6.) it's not a zero-sum game, at least i hope so, because if they designed it as zero-sum that would suck hardcore. And the peds come from people who depo, just like they are now.
    Yeah but where does it end Alukat? Today, you are asking to raise the minimum to 95%, and tomorrow, it will be what? 98%, and then what? 99.5%?

    If you scale it all up, like I did 6 posts earlier:

    To be honest, not sure how to solve that one. And even if you flatten everyone's returns to a steady 98%, eventually, that 2% will get to be too big as well. Imagine a level 500 killing mobs that cost 100 PED to kill, where the 2% on a 5 hour hunt becomes $100 (1k PED). Still not sustainable.
    You see that within the current model, there is no way to make this totally sustainable for everyone in the long run, eventually, you are bound to hit a point where the game is just too expensive for you.
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