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  1. #21
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GxB View Post
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    the thing with this is that the person who always uses low effi guns who gets the big payout lost WAY more before he got it. same with the person with high effi lost way less.
    lets assume someone needs 1 ped to kill a mob and gets 1 time a 100 ped global per 1000 kills.
    then the guy who needs 2 ped to kill same mob can only kill 500 of them. so he might not get the global at all. or he is spending twice as much to kill 1000 mobs to then get a twice as big global. in the end its the same. 95% (made up number) is 95%. the only thing you can do to abuse this insanely bad loot algorithm is quite easy though. if you got a lot of time and use a high efficieny weapon on the same mob you will soon start to recognize when a good loot wave starts. if that happens, immediately take out the low effi gun to abuse the higher return. when it gets bad again switch to high effi until the good wave starts again. rinse and repeat. you lose less during bad periods and win more during good ones. if you hunt 8 hours a day for every day of the week this shouldnt be too hard to do. and getting more than 100% tt return shouldnt be too hard as well with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertha Bot View Post
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    Notice[*] Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

    Originally Posted Here
    This is from the VU 15.15 release notes...

    Notice that 'excessive time and cost to kill' is mentioned here. So just don't go too far with it lol
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  2. #22
    Alpha The Abomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GxB View Post
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    the thing with this is that the person who always uses low effi guns who gets the big payout lost WAY more before he got it. same with the person with high effi lost way less.
    Well duh, that is why you use efficient weapons and watch EL to predict the loot wave then switch to lower efficiency to score the HOF. It's still loot wave hunting!! Why would you use a low Efficiency weapon all the time?

    So the person who uses the lower Efficiency gun wins if he is using it at the right time. He breaks the bank

    This system is still all about timing and has nothing to do with looter and high efficiency.


    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    This is from the VU 15.15 release notes...

    Notice that 'excessive time and cost to kill' is mentioned here. So just don't go too far with it lol
    What is too far? Personally I think this changed and even noticed that in recent test on Molisk with overamping to get an UL item. If this was still true I shouldn't of gotten an UL armor but I did. This past week I started to try and time loot waves ( since grinding lots of mobs is bad )

    I have killed a lot of Molisk so when I thought the loot was good i started with my Bukins Blade with Melee IV amp. I would attack several times with this then finish with my Corrosive 8. The small molisk I killed with this method gave me UL Nemesis foot. If I didn't overamp the Ped value of the molisk would of been too low to get an item. (Since it wasn't a global) So being inefficient gave me a nice +TT UL item. I just happened to time it right.

    I am just annoyed with myself that I bought into this new system that Looter and Efficiency help so you can grind more and thought this new system helps people that love to play the game and grind. When in reality it is still the same as it was before. Just harder to see loot waves.

    The only people that know exactly what Looter and Efficiency do is the people that coded it. They aren't going to tell us that though.

    Please understand how something is stated to work and real mechanics behind it are totally different things here in Entropia. This is why we test stuff and then ask for better from MA.
    Last edited by The Abomb; 01-16-2020 at 13:56.
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  3. #23
    Mutated mastermesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svarog View Post
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    This is a compilation of all that matters minus all the copy-paste and rhetorics. Links lead to the corresponding threads in the AMA section.

    What we may see soon



    What is not a priority but not off the boards either



    What is not in plans




    Considered features and long term goals

    • Overhaul and revitalize PVP
      "Our long term goal is to overhaul and revitalize PVP in Entropia Universe. The changes implemented in Loot 2.0 have opened up the available design space for PVP specific changes, and we look forward to taking advantage of that. However, engagement with PVP has traditionally been relatively low, so it is not currently at the top of our priority list."
    • Upgrades for Starter Pack items
    • Separate team/shared ATH/HOF from individual ATH/HOF
    • Future of pets new
      "Pets are a fun part of Entropia Universe but we don’t want it to be mandatory for every player to have one, therefore pet-based buffs and other benefits need to be properly balanced. Pets and taming are not at the top of our current priority list, but we do plan to implement adjustments and new features in the medium-term."
    • Copy-pasting links on auction to search new
      "This is a good suggestion and something we plan to include in a more general update to the auction interface. "
    • More spaceships new
      "We do plan to ultimately add space ships within different classes and with additional functionality, but that would be part of a larger Space release."
    • Crafting system that doesn't require to be near a terminal new



    State of affairs



    Mechanics

    some few answers hinted at above...

  4. #24
    I think data we rely on is either old and outdated or not complete:

    - returns stats: 2.5years old - I would say unreliable as MA could silently decrease loot returns over time. Fresh status pls.

    - eff info: they said it's 0-7% but they never said it's linear scale, it doesn't have to be. I may be setup in a way that you gain the most at the bottom and anybody using standard 55-60eff already have 90% of eff benefits. So there is little to gain by increasing eff and you only get penalty for using awful eff guns.

    - looter info: same thing as eff info. They only said it affects loot but never said how. It may work as evade skill. You have to have some minimum skill to evade and after some skill level you won't get more benefits. Looter may work same way, as penalty for hunting too high too fast rather than extra loot return for high levels.


    From my personal experience:

    - loot was good after 2.0 introduction - I was getting 96.5% consistently. Later it dropped to consistent 93% as other ppl also reported. I check returns once a week and hunt a lot so my returns are consistently 93%+-1% - so I have good averaging. My guess here is that it was too much for MA to keep such high returns so they lowered it silently. They mentioned that decreasing armor cost increased usage so maybe they counted on same effect on hunting but had to roll back when volume didn't increase. Fresh stats would be helpful here to prove and disprove that.

    - from ppl hunting high eff weapons and still reporting poor loot my guess would be - MA killed eco importance as they killed durability importance of armor. Durability used to matter a lot but after 2.0 all is pretty much flat around 20HP/pec - high durability L armors are only slightly better, so little that I would not pay more than 101% for that extra durability. Looking at trend of making that game cheaper for clueless ppl, I would not be surprised if most return gains from eff resided in 0-50eff range as more of penalty for super low eco rather than extra gain for ultra high eff.

    - I think what matters the most now is proper mob selection - you need to pick something with high avg MU, MU from infrequent drops better as it discourages less patient competition keeping MU high. After that high dpp matter the most. The way to profit seems to be chasing high MU infrequent drops. You get more loot events for same PED input with higher DPP so long term higher avg MU per PED spend. High eff seems like cherry on the cake, you maybe get 0.5% more in TT returns over long time. If you hunt with 10DPS weapon then it's probably not worth chasing, but if you hunt with 100DPS then it adds up fast justifying high weapon price.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimon Frey View Post
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    I think what matters the most now is proper mob selection - you need to pick something with high avg MU, MU from infrequent drops better as it discourages less patient competition keeping MU high. After that high dpp matter the most. The way to profit seems to be chasing high MU infrequent drops. You get more loot events for same PED input with higher DPP so long term higher avg MU per PED spend. High eff seems like cherry on the cake, you maybe get 0.5% more in TT returns over long time. If you hunt with 10DPS weapon then it's probably not worth chasing, but if you hunt with 100DPS then it adds up fast justifying high weapon price.
    You make a lot of valid points. Looter skills working like evade does against mob L rating, I think is a good step forward, but not saying it's the truth. High avg mark up from mobs. High DPP. All yes. Acquiring higher efficiency. Yes. What I'd like to lastly say is, don't treat DPP with Efficiency, they are two seperate parameters. Once you get over that in your head , your good. I'm sorry but I do recall Messi stating that he is now exclusively hunting with his shortblade. I wonder why?
    Last edited by M Rufen Power; 01-16-2020 at 12:42.

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  6. #26
    Alpha The Abomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimon Frey View Post
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    I think data we rely on is either old and outdated or not complete:

    - eff info: they said it's 0-7% but they never said it's linear scale, it doesn't have to be.
    The data isn't complete. 0-7% on what? This is the info we don't know and if "ANYONE" thinks that Efficiency and Looter increase the amount of loot you get by 0-7% they are naive, gullible and wrong.

    Let me paint a pretty picture on marketing and the legality of it. My friend who is a bodybuilder was paid by a diet company to get out of shape and overweight. Then using their product he lost 60 pounds in 30 days!!! Miraculous this product is!! They legally can say their product helped him achieve that. They can market it that way! Is it honest and true? No, a big fat NO!!!!

    Does efficiency increase the value of your loot by 0-7% ? No
    Does looter increase the value of your loot by 0-7%? No
    Are these things being presented in a way that they can legally say they do? Yes

    Holy crap.... It isn't complicated. This is why I made that thread on my MA tracked returns. We need a better system. One that can be backed up and proven with real data. Not this artificial fake marketing being presented to us much like the diet company that helped my friend lose 60 pounds.

    I feel like I am taking crazy pills here.....



    All I want is for some better improvements that helps this game grow and continue to improve. I would love to see the population of this game grow significantly and for every planet to be considered active.
    Last edited by The Abomb; 01-16-2020 at 16:22.
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  7. #27
    Elite John B Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    Was just thinking about all this efficiency business and TT returns and so on... If we take these 2 statements together:



    And:



    What do we end up with? If we take the 2 largest samples above, the 10k PED sample and 100k PED sample, and average them, we get a mean of 96%. We know that the average player in 2017 is using weapons with efficiency values likely to be somewhere between 55% and 65% (because that's pretty much all there is in the game then), so let's round that to 60%.

    If 0% to 100% efficiency equates to a 0-7% difference in TT returns as stated above, then extrapolating the given values, 60% efficiency equals to a 4.2% improvement to loot. If this is true, 0% efficiency weapons should be expected to yield a mean TT return of less than 92%...

    I think for most of October, November and December 2019, Efficiency was actually broken and not functioning as intended, which would explain why so many hunters reported shitty returns around 91%. This isn't really the point of this post, but thought I'd mention it in passing...

    Let's do some more extrapolation. If 0% to 100% efficiency equates to a 0-7% difference in TT returns as stated above by MA, and the average player in 2017 was using 60% efficiency weapons and getting a mean average TT return of 96%, then using 100% efficiency weapons all the time should yield a mean average TT return of 99% (because going from 60% to 100% efficiency would increase TT returns by another 3% (round number), according to the numbers provided).

    So where does the Looter profession fit in all of this? I've seen some people stating in this forum that it is assumed the Looter profession will mean a difference of 0-7% as well going from level 0 Looter to level 100 Looter, but I think this is a false assumption, I think Looter accounts for far less than that. Because if this was true, it would mean that a brand new player would start out with a very low return rate of around 89%, using average weapons. That just seems extremely unlikely to me, you'd never dream of giving new customers the worst possible experience right at the start, that's just the worst idea possible.

    So I think the Looter profession cannot be supposed to affect more than about 1% of your TT returns, and so all it will do is take you from that 99% TT returns which you would get when using 100% efficiency weapons, to 100% TT returns, and that would be the highest TT returns you could get (TT returns above 100% being impossible since Banks never give out free money, and remember MA is a Bank now).

    Anyone got any evidence or anything that would refute these claims?

    Legends
    I think the presumption that looter profession has an absolute impact on statistic longterm tt revenue does not have to be true to make it usefull. It could very well be a relativ impact compared to other hunters in the local region giving you an edge on more immediate returns, eg. improving your shortterm return to have a more steady loot return experience.
    From my experience hunting lowlevel mobs i used to be able to hit 2 globals in short succession when i got lucky sometimes but as looter profession got higher i have seen global chains for 3 and even 4/5 globals in quick sucession giving me an immediate balancing effect on peds cycled.
    On the other side it may lead to less big hofs due to faster immediate returns.

    Furthermore there the the possibility that looter profession and efficincy could give higher longterm tt returns but that they are hardcapped, allowing to improve either way to up to 99% but a person with high looter profession could reach it even with a lower efficincy weapon.

  8. #28
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Added to OP because I think this important.

    EDIT: I had completely forgotten that Looter professions were not introduced yet when these statements above were made but at a later date, thanks allarom for pointing that out. This obviously changes the above presumptions, for example MA could have made Looter just another integer which together with Efficiency add up to a total 7% max increase to TT loot returns..
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Utter nonsense as always
    Is this why all playing with high eff make 1-2 page posts about how bad loot is? No, you've never played with it, you can't make judgement. Hell, your one statement is literally 'I know more than the developer of a game about the mechanics they explained' and you don't even have the tools to test it.

  10. #30
    Alpha The Abomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyk View Post
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    Is this why all playing with high eff make 1-2 page posts about how bad loot is? No, you've never played with it, you can't make judgement. Hell, your one statement is literally 'I know more than the developer of a game about the mechanics they explained' and you don't even have the tools to test it.
    At some point in your PCF stay I hope you might make a meaningful post or help the community. Until then we wait.
    The Abomb now has Expert Wood! Level 48 Resource Gatherer - 5,564 RG Skill points
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