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  1. #1
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Looter Professions and your % TT returns

    Was just thinking about all this efficiency business and TT returns and so on... If we take these 2 statements together:

    2017-07-14
    Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics

    The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

    Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
    Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
    Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
    Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
    Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%

    These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

    Happy hunting!
    And:

    Originally Posted by Charlie|MindArk:
    No, DPP and Efficiency are not the same thing. DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP. Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.
    What do we end up with? If we take the 2 largest samples above, the 10k PED sample and 100k PED sample, and average them, we get a mean of 96%. We know that the average player in 2017 is using weapons with efficiency values likely to be somewhere between 55% and 65% (because that's pretty much all there is in the game then), so let's round that to 60%.

    If 0% to 100% efficiency equates to a 0-7% difference in TT returns as stated above, then extrapolating the given values, 60% efficiency equals to a 4.2% improvement to loot. If this is true, 0% efficiency weapons should be expected to yield a mean TT return of less than 92%...

    I think for most of October, November and December 2019, Efficiency was actually broken and not functioning as intended, which would explain why so many hunters reported shitty returns around 91%. This isn't really the point of this post, but thought I'd mention it in passing...

    Let's do some more extrapolation. If 0% to 100% efficiency equates to a 0-7% difference in TT returns as stated above by MA, and the average player in 2017 was using 60% efficiency weapons and getting a mean average TT return of 96%, then using 100% efficiency weapons all the time should yield a mean average TT return of 99% (because going from 60% to 100% efficiency would increase TT returns by another 3% (round number), according to the numbers provided).

    So where does the Looter profession fit in all of this? I've seen some people stating in this forum that it is assumed the Looter profession will mean a difference of 0-7% as well going from level 0 Looter to level 100 Looter, but I think this is a false assumption, I think Looter accounts for far less than that. Because if this was true, it would mean that a brand new player would start out with a very low return rate of around 89%, using average weapons. That just seems extremely unlikely to me, you'd never dream of giving new customers the worst possible experience right at the start, that's just the worst idea possible.

    So I think the Looter profession cannot be supposed to affect more than about 1% of your TT returns, and so all it will do is take you from that 99% TT returns which you would get when using 100% efficiency weapons, to 100% TT returns, and that would be the highest TT returns you could get (TT returns above 100% being impossible since Banks never give out free money, and remember MA is a Bank now).

    Anyone got any evidence or anything that would refute these claims?

    Legends

    EDIT: I had completely forgotten that Looter professions were not introduced yet when these statements above were made but at a later date, thanks allarom for pointing that out. This obviously changes the above presumptions, for example MA could have made Looter just another integer which together with Efficiency add up to a total 7% max increase to TT loot returns...
    Last edited by Legends; 01-16-2020 at 17:45.
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  2. #2
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Have to show my work here...

    Ok so Charlie stated that Efficiency accounts for 0-7% increase in average loot. So just doing some quick math here, every 10% of Efficiency would equal an increase in loot TT returns of 0.7%. In my example, I used 60% as the average Efficiency, so:

    6*0.7= 4.2% increase in loot TT returns

    From 60-100% Efficiency, there's a difference of 40%, so:

    4*0.7= 2.8% increase in loot TT returns

    If using 60% Efficiency weapons yields an average TT return of 96%, then:

    96-4.2= 91.8% TT returns should be expected when using 0% Efficiency weapons

    96+2.8= 98.8% TT returns should be expected when using 100% Efficiency weapons

    --

    No one really knows for sure about the effect of Looter profession on % TT returns, but assuming that average TT returns above 100% are not to be expected, how could the Looter professions be expected to effect TT returns by more than 1%???

    Legends
    Last edited by Legends; 01-16-2020 at 10:02.
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  3. #3
    I think, you are thinking too much.

    What if:

    Nothing of this matter. Because if the loot isn't there. It isn't there. No matter what equip/skills uve got. You will lose.

    Efficiency and skills will only mean that person X will lose/gain a BIT less/more than Y. That's it, boss.

    This avg. return is in my opinion only based on the time scale, when MA is guessing it will average out over time. Not caring about the fact, that some ppl might be a bit unlucky and only play during "dry" periods.

    So at the end, loot skills and efficiency does matter, coz u get WAY more loot when there is loot and you lose a bit less when there isnt.

    U remember those days getting 3 globals/multis in 10 mins and those days not getting a global per 5hr hunt? Coz i do. Random? Doesnt exist.
    Last edited by DuckiX; 01-16-2020 at 10:11.

  4. #4
    Dominant allarom's Avatar
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    take 3 persons
    person 1 has 20 lvl looter and shoots a mob 3 times with opalo
    person 2 has 60 lvl looter and shoots a mob 3 times with opalo
    person 3 finishes mob with big ass gun before mob reaches person 1 or person 2

    now you can calculate the difference based on shrapnel that person 1 and person 2 gets

    difference should be 2.8% - this should explain it all to you
    take my advice, i dont`t use it anyway!

  5. #5
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allarom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    take 3 persons
    person 1 has 20 lvl looter and shoots a mob 3 times with opalo
    person 2 has 60 lvl looter and shoots a mob 3 times with opalo
    person 3 finishes mob with big ass gun before mob reaches person 1 or person 2

    now you can calculate the difference based on shrapnel that person 1 and person 2 gets

    difference should be 2.8% - this should explain it all to you
    Yeah I guess it can be tested, didn't really think of that... Just have to make sure no buffs are active that could affect the results and don't count the misses. Also, double shrap loots will mess things up so would have to just keep trying until neither hunter 1 or 2 gets 2 stacks of Shrap...
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  6. #6
    Dominant allarom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yeah I guess it can be tested, didn't really think of that... Just have to make sure no buffs are active that could affect the results and don't count the misses. Also, double shrap loots will mess things up so would have to just keep trying until neither hunter 1 or 2 gets 2 stacks of Shrap...
    It has been tested numerous times already, by me and many other ppl. just dig in the forum
    take my advice, i dont`t use it anyway!

  7. #7
    Alpha pechunter's Avatar
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    Im LV 60 looter and hunt with a FEN weapon with 84.3 eff, 3.540dpp and 111dps. Loot has been shit lately with 2hrs between globals frequently. It`s extremly volatile, no stability at all with swings from 60% to 100+. I cant ever recalling having 3 profit runs in a row for several years.

    I`m not expecting to print money, but no game should cost 100bux to play for 1 day.
    Last edited by pechunter; 01-16-2020 at 10:35.

  8. #8
    Prowler GradenFoss's Avatar
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    Well, if it was me, I′d implement l00ter level with respect to each mob hunted. I′d also implement l00ter level as a malus, not a bonus. You seem to presume, l00ter level should go on top... needn′t be the case, though.



    So, l00ting within your l00ter level range would give you maximum l00t as is warranted. Would take care of the beginners, if they′re shooting beginner mobs, no deductions. If you′re l00ter level 10 and shooting Prots (you may be able to tackle those, depending on armor and weapon used), you′d have to expect a few percent less than your maximum l00t percentage would be (computation would take away from l00t in case, l00ter level requirement is not met for this particular mob).
    Last edited by GradenFoss; 01-16-2020 at 10:26.

  9. #9
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allarom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It has been tested numerous times already, by me and many other ppl. just dig in the forum
    So then, a level 100 looter using 100% Efficiency will get 106% TT returns???
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GradenFoss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well, if it was me, I′d implement l00ter level with respect to each mob hunted. I′d also implement l00ter level as a malus, not a bonus. You seem to presume, l00ter level should go on top... needn′t be the case, though.



    So, l00ting within your l00ter level range would give you maximum l00t as is warranted. Would take care of the beginners, if they′re shooting beginner mobs, no deductions. If you′re l00ter level 10 and shooting Prots (you may be able to tackle those, depending on armor and weapon used), you′d have to expect a few percent less than your maximum l00t percentage would be (computation would take away from l00t in case, l00ter level requirement is not met for this particular mob).
    i'm a bit torn on this one, on one hand it would make sense that you need a certain looter level, however, one the other hand it would be pretty bad in regards to team hunting, where you generally would go for mobs which are higher level than you are.

    And also, what's with those shared L1119 zombie kong, bad return/penalty for everyone because nobody is looter level 1119+? xD

    long term tt-return should be same for everyone, regardless of efficiency or looter level. Looter level however should impact loot composition to a small degree.

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