NEW FREE to Play Model For This Games Success

The Abomb

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Abomb Abomb ThePeoplesChamp
There are tons of players and depositors that this game misses out on because of an outdated FREE to play model. If a player leaves before they feel like it is a game they want to stay in and invest. That is a miss. This is a very important aspect of this games growth and how this game is marketed. It needs to be addressed and fixed so new players have the chance we all did when we joined this great game.

When I joined Entropia in 2016 like many before me. I expect to make money in any game that I play, oddly Entropia was off my radar until 2016. As a long time gamer it has always been an appealing benefit of games you enjoy.

However I want to bring up significant differences from just 4 years ago to now. I can't fathom a new player starting Entropia now and staying. How can we hook them into this game before they make that first deposit if there isn't a working FREE to play model anymore? This game is still marketed as FREE to play but compared to when I joined, it isn't.

When I started this game I sweated and read every thread in this forum to learn the intricacies of the game. Sweat was 2.5 ped per 1k and Fruit was a whopping 16 ped+ per 1k. I then was able to take that sweat and buy AUDs so my sweat earned interest and as I learned about skilling, harvesting and the professions. I would weave in Fruit walking to stabilize my PED card before I decided to plunge and buy a starter pack and deposit for hunting/mining.

The reason I stayed is because of this system that was in place that gave me confidence that this was a game that I could invest in. If I couldn't of made some FREE PED when I started and got a feeling to play and how the game works, I would of left. MA would of missed on many deposits over the years. Which is what brings us to where we are now.

If a new player joins to check out Entropia now there isn't anything in place for them to stay like I did when I started. If it looks like it's just a loss then why are they ever going to commit on that first deposit or starter pack? Obviously this game needs a FREE to play label for other reasons as well. However how can a new player stay when sweat is 1ped per 1k and Fruit is what 4ped?

The system doesn't work anymore. It's been neglected and it is REQUIRED for this games growth and getting players to stick around and join in the adventure for many years to come. This is why other FREE to play games have such a massive success. They get players to join the game and enjoy it, then they buy items off the Webshop. These players are happy too do that and why the FREE to play gaming industry has become such a monster in gaming.

So what can we do to bring about a NEW FREE to play model that gives new players the PED that many of us had when we first joined? I think a NEW system might be best since this one has run it's coarse.

The only other option would be to set sweat at a TT value of 2 Ped per 1k. Same for Fruit at 16 ped per 1k. (This would remove it from the system and create MU above TT ) I don't like this option and think it's best we seek out a new adventure to stabilize the FREE to play game that this is supposed to be and help the new players and give them a taste of the game to see if they will invest in it. Obviously the NOOB oil rig was a failed idea so I welcome any suggestions on a NEW FREE to play model for MA to implement to help this game flourish.

Entropia can capture the success that other FREE to play games have. While also giving players the feeling like they are joining a game again that is special. When I joined it felt special and it's time to create this experience for the new players of the future.

Thanks
Abomb The People's Champ
 
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When I started this game ...
It's the same for me, except that sweat was at 10 peds or so - and faster to gather! Sweating and swunting enabled people to slowly join the hunting path and get used to the game.

I also lost peds initially with mining until I discovered what areas had what resources, but as I learnt I got closer to 100%, then slightly above it including mus. Skills meant better depth and better mu... it all actually helped a noob become less noob.

We didn't have deeds back then - and it was actually CLDs that got me to deposit right back at their introduction. If I had deposited to play I'd have increased in skills much faster, and back then that would probably have been the better path to take to get better equipment while it 'mattered'...

Anyway - in short on what I think, Caly should introduce a clear path mission with dailies or a chain that gives out a profit in universal ammo. Generally I'm not a fan of bound items, but bound non-tt-able ammo is a good way of getting people turning peds over, so would be a bit like swunting used to be. People didn't just sweat, they hunted at low level alongside. Some planets have mission dailies that reward higher than the spend - the Ark Moon has a totally free 2 peds per day of ammo if you run and don't use any oil at all. My guess is that maybe 10 peds per day is needed, however - and MA should be the ones paying for that as part of retention marketing.

edit - preferably MA would reawaken higher demand for an easy or free noob activity, though, such as fruit/stones for textures and sweat for M/E and now bps, yes
 
However how can a new player stay when sweat is 1ped per 1k and Fruit is what 4ped?

The system doesn't work anymore.
Adapt. You are correct, sweat prices are lower, but there are other ways to play free... Arkadia moon now has a daily that pays you 2 ped universal ammo...

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Hazmat-Suit&p=3720868&viewfull=1#post3720868


Moon daily extractor waypoints. These can be pasted into the chat, and then made into a in game sticky note to assist with tracking.
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10959, 10078, 107, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10793, 10059, 108, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10713, 10225, 112, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10479, 10430, 81, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 9960, 10240, 110, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10027, 9971, 133, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 9916, 9672, 112, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10042, 9151, 129, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10313, 9107, 115, Waypoint]
/wp [Arkadia Moon, 10392, 9280, 127, Waypoint]

====================
Get tired of the Moon, go get a Wolpertinger on Cyrene and sell it... and while there if you don't mind getting naked, head down to the hub and pick up some lime green stuff.

At my request Cyrene recently reduced weight of maze hammers dramatically... so now you can carry an arsenal of maze hammers and not go slow due to weight limits... (nice since they give you a slight acceleration buff... of course I'm already maxed on that due to my adjusted harrier and ring, but hey, nice to have options in case I want to change clothes sometime.)

maze.jpg



In other words get your avatar's ass off of Calypso and go explore.
(got to admit double skill bonus for old missions and new mission tracker thing on Calypso is nice, but that's not going to be Calypso's advantage forever... besides that, if you are here to play free this shouldn't be much of a concern since skill prices are crap nowadays anyways.)
 
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P.S.
Get bored of Cyrene and Ark Moon, go visit Rocktropia..

When you are on RT and are not hunting AI you can also hit the beer garden, the little pvp zones near n00bs club and the Arctic oil rigs as well as other rig to get a few oil, etc. Same type of thing on other planets too...
 
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I think a daily mission for some free universal ammo on Calypso would be a good idea. Also, we need more demand for common loot since it’s all new players can get, as well as things like sweat and stones. I think this can be achieved by introducing new weapon BPs that use some of that stuff. Maybe Armatrix clubs? They’ll have to be good though to generate demand.

And the mentoring system needs to be reworked a little bit. The problem here is that anyone can mentor other players right after graduation, which is bad in itself. There has to be some level requirement for someone to become a mentor since this directly affects new player experience. The world in EU is endless, so is the number of different things you can do, an experienced mentor can show all (or a good portion) of that to a new participant which would increase the chance of them staying in the game.

The mentoring system can be improved in many ways. First – level or total skillpoint requirement. Second – mentors need to be able to summon their disciples to wherever they are on a given planet because not everybody likes endless exploring. Third – maybe there should be a new type of mission, tasks that mentors would set for their disciples to complete and receive rewards in universal ammo or anything else. Like shoot x amount of punies or mine x amount of lysterium, and those would work like daily missions to ensure that new and different tasks are available every day.
 
Adapt. You are correct, sweat prices are lower, but there are other ways to play free... Arkadia moon now has a daily that pays you 2 ped universal ammo...

Ideas like this are good but 2 PED? If it was 20 PED that would be comparable to what it was. It was easy to make 20 PED a day doing some casual fruit walking and 10 PED a day sweating just a few years ago. So 2 PED doesn't cut it and isn't a reason to even visit the Ark moon. Not to mention fuel cost, travel time and then what when you are done? Now you are stuck on Ark Moon for less than 2 PED? Yikes. Lets get this number to at least 15-20 PED with activities and it is worth it to go there.


besides that, if you are here to play free this shouldn't be much of a concern since skill prices are crap nowadays anyways.)

It isn't about being here for FREE to play. No one is saying this should ONLY be free to play. Just that you need a way to make PED everyday for FREE that is comparable to the past, especially as a new player when we all had this wonderful benefit too in the past. It allowed us to really "TRY" the game. New players don't get that option. It's depo or leave. So they leave.... Again it's about revamping the FREE to play model that is the core aspect that this game is marketed as.

These FREE to play players will be the investors and depositors of the future after trying the game.

As far as skill prices, the reason we play the game is to attain skills not sell them. Avatar progression is a core function of the game. It's still an MMORPG.

I think a daily mission for some free universal ammo on Calypso would be a good idea. Also, we need more demand for common loot since it’s all new players can get, as well as things like sweat and stones.

I agree maybe daily that rewards 5 PED with a chance of bonus missions to increase this value to 15-20. Then obviously new items that can be collected with value would stimulate the economy.
 
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"Sweating is soooooo boooooooooring..." used to be the complaint. Also, it too easy to automate using key-mapping. Go to Boreas and offer all the sweaters free pets or something, see how many actually respond. Very few. That's because most of them are sweating bots.

MindArk was very smart to implement some free play with actual rewards like the ones mastermesh talked about above. The maze on Cyrene is great, it takes a while to complete and get the WolperTinger, but once you do, you can usually get between 75 and 150 PED for it, depending if you train it to level 7 so it can be spawned on other planets.

The AI mission on RT is good too, you get a 2 PED presidential paystub or something. The Hazmat suit thing on the Ark Moon, also great, and you can sell the suit I think for like 75 PED or something. The Daily that gives you 2 PED Uni Ammo is completely free.

These are all ways to get free PED that actually exist right now in the game. So I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Hunting was never a free activity, only sweating and fruit walking were. Now there's even more free PED to be had, more then ever before.
 
"Sweating is soooooo boooooooooring..." used to be the complaint. Also, it too easy to automate using key-mapping. Go to Boreas and offer all the sweaters free pets or something, see how many actually respond. Very few. That's because most of them are sweating bots.

MindArk was very smart to implement some free play with actual rewards like the ones mastermesh talked about above. The maze on Cyrene is great, it takes a while to complete and get the WolperTinger, but once you do, you can usually get between 75 and 150 PED for it, depending if you train it to level 7 so it can be spawned on other planets.

The AI mission on RT is good too, you get a 2 PED presidential paystub or something. The Hazmat suit thing on the Ark Moon, also great, and you can sell the suit I think for like 75 PED or something. The Daily that gives you 2 PED Uni Ammo is completely free.

These are all ways to get free PED that actually exist right now in the game. So I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Hunting was never a free activity, only sweating and fruit walking were. Now there's even more free PED to be had, more then ever before.

I am not complaining just pointing out the obvious. Are the methods to make FREE PED today comparable to the past? No it's not even close. As I stated above it was easy to make 20 PED a day casually Fruit walking and 10 PED a day sweating just a few years ago. It was easy for new player to invest time to learn about the game and actually gain some initial PED to "TRY" it. This option is now not available so our new player growth is stunted out of the gate. This then means less steady depositors of the future.

The idea of this thread is to come up with something that is comparable to the past that we all experienced to increase the growth of new players. The idea would be to reverse our dwindling player base and attract more players to try Entropia.
 
I am not complaining just pointing out the obvious. Are the methods to make FREE PED today comparable to the past? No it's not even close. As I stated above it was easy to make 20 PED a day casually Fruit walking and 10 PED a day sweating just a few years ago. It was easy for new player to invest time to learn about the game and actually gain some initial PED to "TRY" it. This option is now not available so our new player growth is stunted out of the gate. This then means less steady depositors of the future.

The idea of this thread is to come up with something that is comparable to the past that we all experienced to increase the growth of new players. The idea would be to reverse our dwindling player base and attract more players to try Entropia.

When I started playing back in 2006, I was a non-depositor for a couple of months and all I did was sweat. I started out around Port Atlantis for a few weeks and then eventually made it to Fort Troy. I remember there was a big square surrounded by 4 walls where all the traders would stand around. I used to get 4.2 PED/k for my sweat at the time. But sweating was hard work back then. If I remember correctly, it took me almost a week (4-5 days) to get around 35 PEDs.

Don't talk to me about 15-20 PED/day man, that's just horse manure, you are not remembering correctly. And if you are, I'm glad it has changed. Realize that if non-depositors are able to make 20 PED/day for free, then the game is BLEEDING away 20 PED/day per sweater. Someone has to pay for that, and this may be a completely new concept to you but it ain't MindArk, I can guarantee you. It would be the depositors paying to subsidize the sweaters.

I dunno about you man but I sure ain't here for charity...
 
Don't talk to me about 15-20 PED/day man, that's just horse manure, you are not remembering correctly. And if you are, I'm glad it has changed. Realize that if non-depositors are able to make 20 PED/day for free, then the game is BLEEDING away 20 PED/day per sweater. Someone has to pay for that, and this may be a completely new concept to you but it ain't MindArk, I can guarantee you. It would be the depositors paying to subsidize the sweaters.

I dunno about you man but I sure ain't here for charity...

Unsure about your hostility and it isn't about charity so taking that stance is incorrect. This is a FREE to play game and MA markets this game as that. (It got me to join this game ) The current FREE to play model is obviously outdated with fruit now being able to be spotted while running and lower prices as well as sweat. This thread is to open up ideas for a NEW FREE to play model that is comparable to the past.

In 2016 I could get 4k sweat in one day. At 2.5 ped per 1k that is 10 PED. That is a really tedious day of course but it paid off for me to invest in my first deeds which were AUDs and make a commitment to the game.

Fruit was 16 ped per 1k. It wasn't hard to attain 1k Fruit in one day and there was even a channel and guides on how to fruit walk for new players to attain PED to play the game.

Both of these methods are now gone and so is our new player growth as a result. This diminishes the potential for future depositors.

20 PED for Free in a day for a lot of time invested was nothing and this is why it was in the game. It didn't bleed PED out of the economy but it stimulated it. This allowed player to get started and decide to invest money into the game on starter packs, gear and ammo.

My memory isn't foggy I bought 4 AUDs with sweat alone before I bought a Gold Starter pack. Obviously since then I deposited many more times into the game and decided it was really a unique adventure that was ahead. Why wouldn't you want NEW players to have a chance to "try" this wonderful game like we had? It only makes sense so this game can grow :)

Edit - It's important to note a new player will go from cycling 10 PED an hour to 20, 50, 100, 500 and then 1,000+ PED an hour as his Avatar grows. You want to talk about 20 PED in a day? He might be a seasoned hunter/crafter/miner of tomorrow that deposit regularly. We got to give these players a chance like we had.
 
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20 PED for Free in a day for a lot of time invested was nothing and this is why it was in the game. It didn't bleed PED out of the economy but it stimulated it. This allowed player to get started and decide to invest money into the game on starter packs, gear and ammo.

My memory isn't foggy I bought 4 AUDs with sweat alone before I bought a Gold Starter pack. Obviously since then I deposited many more times into the game and decided it was really a unique adventure that was ahead. Why wouldn't you want NEW players to have a chance to "try" this wonderful game like we had? It only makes sense so this game can grow :)

You are definitely missing a part of the puzzle here, you are not grasping something, that's for sure... You need to scale it in your head to see if it works in application. What if all of a sudden it's possible to make 20-30 PED per day for free by just having a computer running (automated sweating let's say). There are many countries where people don't even make that. Let's say you now have hundreds of new accounts being created to do this 24 hours/day, making about 60 PED/day.

In 10 days, there's 600 PED there, that's $60 USD! in 100 days, that's $600 USD! They withdraw all that money of course... Where's it going to come from? You think MindArk is going to fund that?

This is a very serious question, I'm not putting down your good intentions, I just want you to think real hard about this. Where's that money going to come from?

Now all of a sudden something that was intended as a generous gesture towards the playerbase has become abused and taken advantage of. These are serious issues and questions that MindArk faces with everything they implement. Even giving away 2 PED/day is a serious concern when you scale it up times 1000 accounts... No CEO or company manager wakes up in the morning asking "Let's see, who to give $200 to today for free?"

This is why MA gives out Uni Ammo that you can't TT or trade, all you can do is use it. Or a pet like WolperTinger. There is no TT value, it's value is not backed by MA because if you TT it you get nothing. Money has to come from another player. Scaled 1,000 times, it's not really a problem.

MA clearly doesn't object to giving away free play, what they will object to is giving away free PED, and I support that.
 
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This is NOT a "Free Game To Play" game. This is a MMO with a Real Cash Economy.

Within Entropia there are options to gain funds by expending lots of effort on extremely tedious tasks with an aim at getting you bored and have you put money into the game and play with all the cool items faster. The intention is never to have these "Free" things become a way to play the game long term (but many have, I know). Many other MMOs do this presently and the model works well for them.

Making it easier for new players to earn free cash is really not the right answer. You will get more free players sucking funds from the game. MA has gone thru that and we now have the safeguards in place to ensure the Economy can survive any expenditures to free players.

Maybe making options for new players with little funds to invest in the game and get them some interest money may be a better option. Something that will encourage them to bring new money into the game?
 
Don't talk to me about 15-20 PED/day man, that's just horse manure, you are not remembering correctly. And if you are, I'm glad it has changed. ...

Sorry, but I truly LOL-ed at the not remembering correctly bit. Then again, even virtual realities can be different for different people, I guess. Anyway, for a long time my benchmark was at about 4 peds per hour. I compared sweating at Nea's to walking backwards with combibo young and getting the odd fruit along with it, sometimes went 100% looking for fruit/stones etc. For a time you could spot fruit/stones whilst driving, so that boosted finds per hour, but then MA took it away again. I did have a few "unusual methods" for sweating as well, so my average may have been higher than other people, but even so, 3 hours of free stuff was enough to fund an hour or more of other more daring stuff, such as, OMG, argos, where I might be lucky but could also be unlucky and lose 15 peds on a run!
Ahh, the life of low-scale play! Still, it kept me in EU and if I now hunt at 300 peds an hour and an expected loss of maybe 20 peds as normal, rather than rare, that is actually limited by MA not enabling me to go faster in that particular activity. Unless of course, MA takes 50 peds per hour off me (as other threads are complaining about returns right now), in which case I return to carabok, but that's a different story--ish.

Yes, it was players paying mu for those heady times back then, but it wasn't charity! It was people wanting to get on faster with other activities, instead of just doing higher turnover stuff for 1 hour in 5, or whatever.

If MA has to pay noobs with universal ammo in any new moves today, then it means the economy is not able to support the low end like it used to. And yet we have many more higher level players now. How does that make sense? It seems to me there's a big drought across a large spread of mid-level play. It seems to be more and more of a secret where mu comes from these days - rare returns from activities which are hidden from common knowledge. Now I know there are niches in this game, but how is even a mid-level player supposed to know about them, let alone people trying out the game and considering whether to stay?

THAT is a crucial point, in my opinion. It is no longer "Skill up and better mu will be yours." It's "Find the secret, but you won't, and then things might work for you." That is not much of an incentive.

I am trying to stay on topic, by the way - how does MA now attract and keep new players to a point where lots decide to deposit? Maybe part of the pressure that makes it hard for MA to be 'generous' is that MA is squeezing the middle too much. How can EU be an inspiring, aspiring place again?

edit: answer to further replies... "This is why MA gives out Uni Ammo that you can't TT or trade, all you can do is use it." Yes, but that also has a value of 90% when considering turnover back to tt returns. I think it is more likely that the move means avatars must spend time in game, so creating alts is not a high-speed approach to grabbing and withdrawing free stuff.

Actually, maybe the secrets I mention above are more relevant that I thought. It has always seemed to me to be keeping planets like Cyrene semi-dead, because the community actually gets to a point of wanting to be rude rather than have new people discovering stuff and competing for a niche. Sometimes the problem is not where it appears to be.....
 
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You are definitely missing a part of the puzzle here, you are not grasping something, that's for sure... You need to scale it in your head to see if it works in application. What if all of a sudden it's possible to make 20-30 PED per day for free by just having a computer running (automated sweating let's say). There are many countries where people don't even make that. Let's say you now have hundreds of new accounts being created to do this 24 hours/day, making about 60 PED/day.

In 10 days, there's 600 PED there, that's $60 USD! in 100 days, that's $600 USD! They withdraw all that money of course... Where's it going to come from? You think MindArk is going to fund that?

This is a very serious question, I'm not putting down your good intentions, I just want you to think real hard about this. Where's that money going to come from?


First, multiple accounts should be getting banded so it's not part of the equation.

Second, I never said a sweater should make 20 ped a day :laugh:

The real money maker was fruit walking for stones and fruit which is now a dead market. Agree? Good now lets move on.

I am not missing any part of the puzzle you have tunnel vision without taking a birds eye view of a FREE to play system that works and the money it generates. By attracting more potential buyers of micro transactions. It increases the player base of spenders in games that is designed to spend and cycle PED.

Pretty sure MA wanted a FREE to play system in place like it did in the past that generated grinders and skillers like myself who deposit. If it wasn't there, they would of missed out on gaining new depositors. This is the FREE to play model to get people into the actual game and have a Web Shop where the money is made. FREE to play gaming is the most lucrative part of the gaming industry now. You want a good game to get into for FREE then love it enough to deposit. That is how they make millions.

Also you act like when someone withdraws money that is bad, when it is essential for this game and economy's growth. You need people making money in this game to label it a Real Cash Economy. If there are no winners and no one makes a profit, it isn't an economy. Are we clear on that? Never is it a bad thing when a player did well and withdrew money! This is a winner and you could be a winner too! That is why people start this game! Lets not forget that :)

If no one wins then it isn't a game. Yikes :eyecrazy: Let restore the FREE to play model to it's previous successful state. Again not asking to print PED just asking for a decent model that every FREE to play game needs to get players here in the first place (to spend money).
 
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Why wouldn't you want NEW players to have a chance to "try" this wonderful game like we had? It only makes sense so this game can grow :)

this game did grow because some people simply deposited, instead of wasting their precious lifetime chasing for a few PECs here and there - even as a noob in 2005.

just my :twocents: :wave:
 
Ok, a new solution - or at least I think it's new that it is written here.

Noobs and others can do free activities which give types of limited amps that increase tt returns by 10% (or rather, count as an approximate 10% on the cost to kill, and in return, improve the returns for a limited amount of spend!).

This means 90% or so real peds must still be turned over - universal ammo at the moment can be a very high percentage of cost right now, so is not good in that sense. This move would stop the current ammo situation with a high conversion rate to pedcard peds, but would enable a certain amount of "free" play.
Sure, people could be given a few peds by MA the old way as well, but the daily free playstyle would not get out of hand and cost MA loads. At the same time, players could do normalish activities with the amps, but only at slow speed. If they like what they see, noobs should depo to hunt higher mobs, etc.
 
There are tons of players and depositors that this game misses out on because of an outdated FREE to play model. If a player leaves before they feel like it is a game they want to stay in and invest. That is a miss. This is a very important aspect of this games growth and how this game is marketed. It needs to be addressed and fixed so new players have the chance we all did when we joined this great game.
...

If a new player joins to check out Entropia now there isn't anything in place for them to stay like I did when I started. If it looks like it's just a loss then why are they ever going to commit on that first deposit or starter pack? Obviously this game needs a FREE to play label for other reasons as well. However how can a new player stay when sweat is 1ped per 1k and Fruit is what 4ped?

The system doesn't work anymore. It's been neglected and it is REQUIRED for this games growth and getting players to stick around and join in the adventure for many years to come.

I am not missing any part of the puzzle you have tunnel vision without taking a birds eye view of a FREE to play system that works and the money it generates. By attracting more potential buyers of micro transactions. It increases the player base of spenders in games that is designed to spend and cycle PED.

Pretty sure MA wanted a FREE to play system in place like it did in the past that generated grinders and skillers like myself who deposit. If it wasn't there, they would of missed out on gaining new depositors. This is the FREE to play model to get people into the actual game and have a Web Shop where the money is made. FREE to play gaming is the most lucrative part of the gaming industry now. You want a good game to get into for FREE then love it enough to deposit. That is how they make millions.


I strongly disagree... The game is still free to play when you start out, it's still possible, easier then ever before even.

You know, when I started playing Entropia, we didn't have Half-moon Cove or Camp Icarus, it was a much steeper curve and it was much more expensive to actually play at the beginning compared to today.

I just visited Orthos Oil field the other day and OMG, are you freakin' kidding me!? L2-L3 Drones!? Wow! I could hunt these guys all day long over there for free! I hunted them for like 30 minutes and was just getting Rubio after Rubio non-stop.

Anyone joining the game today has WAY more options and opportunity then there ever was before. And can play a LOT longer with a LOT less money than ever before.

There is no way that anyone can refute that. If you do, you just have no clue, step out of your little bubble and go hunt the punies with the newbies at Camp Icarus for an hour and see how much that costs, then we can talk.

I'm serious, go to Camp Icarus, like I did the other day, quit being a lazy punk that just complains on and on in this forum, take your damn avatar, and GO HUNT the L1 Caudatergus at Camp Icarus. Tell me how long you can make $10 last till it's all gone? Don't be a stupid prick, do an honest test, I'm really curious.

And if that's too expensive for you, go tame some Corinthian Kanins at Atlantis Archipelago, buy an 8 ped whip and tell me how long that lasts? Another one that's really cheap is Hunt the THING on RT...

We're talking pennies per hour to play an online MMORPG...

You're just complaining because you can't play at a high level, it's too expensive for you. And you don't want to do anything else.

Also you act like when someone withdraws money that is bad, when it is essential for this game and economy's growth. You need people making money in this game to label it a Real Cash Economy. If there are no winners and no one makes a profit, it isn't an economy. Are we clear on that? Never is it a bad thing when a player did well and withdrew money! This is a winner and you could be a winner too! That is why people start this game! Lets not forget that :)

If no one wins then it isn't a game. Yikes :eyecrazy: Let restore the FREE to play model to it's previous successful state. Again not asking to print PED just asking for a decent model that every FREE to play game needs to get players here in the first place (to spend money).

Wow lol, now you're just making stuff up. I never said any such thing, ever. I completely agree that we need winners, you just are not understanding, or refusing to understand what I said.
 
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this game did grow because some people simply deposited, instead of wasting their precious lifetime chasing for a few PECs here and there - even as a noob in 2005.

just my :twocents: :wave:


Key word in that sentence "SOME" which is a smaller part of the whole. Also you are flat out removing the chance of any future spenders by not having an acceptable FREE to play system in place.

The gaming industry now is FREE to play with a micro-transaction system that is highly profitable. If you eliminate FREE to play (which this game is still currently marketed as) All it does is remove potential investors and spenders from the start. They don't see value in the game and feel it's a rip off. Something that no one wants if we want the game to flourish and have a larger player base with more people that might splurge in the Web Shop eventually.

Just my 2 cents, now if MA wants to stop marketing this game as FREE to play and totally change that strategy since the game has changed and evolved to where we are now, then fine. Except why not profit off the FREE to play game industry like so many other platforms are successfully doing? So just keep the same marketing strategy and improve the FREE to play model to where it was seems like a highly reasonable outcome that will only increase MA revenue.
 
You're on the wrong subject here.

I started playing in 2006 with my old avatar.
I played for years, then took a break for 2 or 3 years, and my current avatar is from 2017.

I can say one thing: The game has never been easier than it is now for newcomers.
Especially when it comes to starting the game without a deposit.

It was really very difficult in the past. :lam:

Talking about the price of sweat or fruits is not relevant.
First, because, once again, MA is not directly responsible for the drop in the MU of sweat.
Thousands of people have been collecting sweat for years, so there are more and more ingame, the price is falling, it's normal.
And we can't ask MA to add sweat as an ingredient in every existing BP to fix it.

Secondly, the cost of the game at a beginner level is much less today than it was before.

Collecting sweat was harder. :sweat:

Also there was absolutely NOTHING offered.

There was no tutorial.
You were thrown right into the lion's den on your first day. :acid:
Now there's Thule, and they even get a few items and ammo for free there.

After that, they got very easily;
Armor (Scout, and very good Adj Pixie after mentoring), some plates, good beginner weapon bunkin (adjusted) rifle, FAP, ammo, vehicles, etc...
And that's only for Caly, they can have some more for free on some others planets.

Again, there were absolutely NOTHING for free in the past. :broke:

They have 10-40 HP mob (Puny) to skill up easily, not loosing so fast.
Try it, return on Puny is very sustainable. (alot more than when you had to start hunting on Bery or Daiki on your very first days)

And it's same for mining.
It was almost impossible to try mining at 1 PED drop whith zero skill and no deposit.
Now there is 0.1 PED drop for newbies.

In conclusion I'd say MA have done a great job on the newbies part.

Now it would be time to work on the average player, the medium level players.

I don't know, but I suppose someone has to pay for all that free newbie stuff.
And maybe I'm wrong but to me it looks like average level players do it.

I'm not against it, I think it's very good for newcomers now.
And this is probably good for the game.
But you can't ask even more.

Would be nice to work now on making it sustainable and enjoyable for the vast majority of players, that is medium level players.

The game becomes very "nasty" to most players when they reach about L45-55.
IMO, this is where MA should work now.
:wise:
 
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Sorry, but I truly LOL-ed at the not remembering correctly bit. Then again, even virtual realities can be different for different people, I guess. Anyway, for a long time my benchmark was at about 4 peds per hour. I compared sweating at Nea's to walking backwards with combibo young and getting the odd fruit along with it, sometimes went 100% looking for fruit/stones etc. For a time you could spot fruit/stones whilst driving, so that boosted finds per hour, but then MA took it away again. I did have a few "unusual methods" for sweating as well, so my average may have been higher than other people, but even so, 3 hours of free stuff was enough to fund an hour or more of other more daring stuff, such as, OMG, argos, where I might be lucky but could also be unlucky and lose 15 peds on a run!
Ahh, the life of low-scale play! Still, it kept me in EU and if I now hunt at 300 peds an hour and an expected loss of maybe 20 peds as normal, rather than rare, that is actually limited by MA not enabling me to go faster in that particular activity. Unless of course, MA takes 50 peds per hour off me (as other threads are complaining about returns right now), in which case I return to carabok, but that's a different story--ish.

Yes, it was players paying mu for those heady times back then, but it wasn't charity! It was people wanting to get on faster with other activities, instead of just doing higher turnover stuff for 1 hour in 5, or whatever.

If MA has to pay noobs with universal ammo in any new moves today, then it means the economy is not able to support the low end like it used to. And yet we have many more higher level players now. How does that make sense? It seems to me there's a big drought across a large spread of mid-level play. It seems to be more and more of a secret where mu comes from these days - rare returns from activities which are hidden from common knowledge. Now I know there are niches in this game, but how is even a mid-level player supposed to know about them, let alone people trying out the game and considering whether to stay?

THAT is a crucial point, in my opinion. It is no longer "Skill up and better mu will be yours." It's "Find the secret, but you won't, and then things might work for you." That is not much of an incentive.

I am trying to stay on topic, by the way - how does MA now attract and keep new players to a point where lots decide to deposit? Maybe part of the pressure that makes it hard for MA to be 'generous' is that MA is squeezing the middle too much. How can EU be an inspiring, aspiring place again?

edit: answer to further replies... "This is why MA gives out Uni Ammo that you can't TT or trade, all you can do is use it." Yes, but that also has a value of 90% when considering turnover back to tt returns. I think it is more likely that the move means avatars must spend time in game, so creating alts is not a high-speed approach to grabbing and withdrawing free stuff.

Actually, maybe the secrets I mention above are more relevant that I thought. It has always seemed to me to be keeping planets like Cyrene semi-dead, because the community actually gets to a point of wanting to be rude rather than have new people discovering stuff and competing for a niche. Sometimes the problem is not where it appears to be.....


Outstanding post but I have to spread rep around. Also as you mention UNI ammo isn't the best reward. Trading Fruit and Sweat allowed you to play the game. It allowed you to buy items, Sleip or Quad to travel,deeds (if you were savvy and spent time) etc... etc... Attaining PED is needed for it to be an actual economy. Rewarding UNI ammo is actually stepping back from the economy aspect. It's helpful but isn't the answer.


First, because, once again, MA is not directly responsible for the drop in the MU of sweat.
Thousands of people have been collecting sweat for years, so there are more and more ingame, the price is falling, it's normal.

MA is responsible for maintaining the FREE to play model as well as a healthy economy that has MU. You are correct falling MU is natural but it is up to MA to provide ways for MU to be sustained. This really is their job, to keep a careful eye on the economy whether it's due to over abundance or not enough. If there is too much of a resource in game it is MA's job to remove it from the system to improve MU.

It's literally MA's job to keep this close watch on our economy to make sure MU doesn't crash or rise to much. We have economy managers at MA that do this. This is how you manage an economy and this is why resources have caps or are rare.

So MA is directly responsible for MU in a way. If something becomes too rare what do they do? They increase the drop rate. It's part of their balancing team and difficult job the economy managers have here. I do give credit to them it isn't easy to balance this games economy.

Now the question is should MA remove sweat from the game? Should they impose a cap per day? Should they come up with more uses? Pick which one, anyone... but something so we can indeed move forward :) Same goes for Fruit heck *cough* gardening system.
 
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There is no way that anyone can refute that. If you do, you just have no clue, step out of your little bubble and go hunt the punies with the newbies at Camp Icarus for an hour and see how much that costs, then we can talk.
What a wonderful turn of phrase you have...
What should my response be - my bubble's bigger than your bubble? It's not even present bubbles people seem to be trapped in, but bubble memories of the past.

Who needs Half-moon Cove or Camp Icarus - there was the lake area north of PA with mostly daikiba young, but other stuff around too, Camp Caravan had snable youngs and those oh so viscious females at twice the punch, etc etc. One difference is tp gathering is no longer the adventure it used to be... but that's not a cost thing.

As for being able to play longer with less money.... free kinda makes longer open-ended, doesn't it?
 
First, multiple accounts should be getting banded so it's not part of the equation.

Second, I never said a sweater should make 20 ped a day :laugh:

The real money maker was fruit walking for stones and fruit which is now a dead market. Agree? Good now lets move on.

I am not missing any part of the puzzle you have tunnel vision without taking a birds eye view of a FREE to play system that works and the money it generates. By attracting more potential buyers of micro transactions. It increases the player base of spenders in games that is designed to spend and cycle PED.

Pretty sure MA wanted a FREE to play system in place like it did in the past that generated grinders and skillers like myself who deposit. If it wasn't there, they would of missed out on gaining new depositors. This is the FREE to play model to get people into the actual game and have a Web Shop where the money is made. FREE to play gaming is the most lucrative part of the gaming industry now. You want a good game to get into for FREE then love it enough to deposit. That is how they make millions.

Also you act like when someone withdraws money that is bad, when it is essential for this game and economy's growth. You need people making money in this game to label it a Real Cash Economy. If there are no winners and no one makes a profit, it isn't an economy. Are we clear on that? Never is it a bad thing when a player did well and withdrew money! This is a winner and you could be a winner too! That is why people start this game! Lets not forget that :)

If no one wins then it isn't a game. Yikes :eyecrazy: Let restore the FREE to play model to it's previous successful state. Again not asking to print PED just asking for a decent model that every FREE to play game needs to get players here in the first place (to spend money).

I never said anything about multiple accounts... What's to stop some call center in India or Africa with 100 employees and 100 work stations from creating 100 legitimate accounts to earn 600-900 PED/day? Or some other such scenario... Wherever there's money to be made, there'll be people flocking in to take advantage, even if it's only $5/day.

Anyway, everyday you come in here clamoring to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!", instantly and immediately negating, without realizing it apparently, all the hard earned value that veteran players hold in their avatars and their accounts in the form of skills and highly desirable items that would just lose all their perceived value if what you are asking for was to be done.

You talk of tunnel vision while you are the one who is short-sighted and self-serving, without any concern for anyone else. You can't even be bothered to look into any of the things I and other posters in this thread have talked about, examples of ways to play Entropia for free or very very cheaply. Instead you just negate all that, and jump right back to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!"

You're just wasting my time, I'm done with you.

Legends
 
this is not a very good post, EU or rather PE has never been free and there was no way other than oil rig to get free peds at the start.
the major difference is that for a long time it was possible to work for others or helps for somes peds.
the ubber items was worth no more than $ 3k and an investment of $ 100 could make you start a career as a hunter, the losses were not so much due to loot but rather the desire to have better equipment or an attempt to additional activity which made us deposit other peds without stress of violent loss in the classic activities typical of other mmorpg.

the sweat was a huge stupidity from MA, I don't know how people can have this desire to start like that.
 

Hi Cirrus, it seems we disagree too about the past.
You say, for example: Collecting sweat was harder. :sweat:
Well, I could sweat more per hour and the market price was a lot higher, so I don't see how it was harder, apart from getting Nea's tp in the first place, maybe, but that was part of feeling I was on the way up.... a noob with Nea's was already on the learning curve.

I agree that the 0.05 and 0.1 ped mining is a big improvement, ok.
I also agree that the first few hours were made a lot more enjoyable by Arkadia introducing the start chain and Thule as a getting-to-know area as well.

However, the problem increasingly became the continuation in my opinion. You mention L45-55, but it seems to me the noose is already tight a lot earlier. I always tried to see where I could get into profit and whether sustainably or just briefly. But I don't consider this is about me, but the reasonable expectation most people have that accompanies a decision to deposit a bit, then hopefully more. Maybe the path is too extended now, maybe new players want to grow faster than they should, spend too much and then retreat.

Out of interest, when you say 10-40 hp punies are very sustainable, do you mean no loss or even profit, or just really slow losses like going harvesting and losing 2 peds in 25 ped turnover and a couple of hours of play?

On the subject of costs, there is still a slow but steady stream of newish players who want to skill repairing on an MS to get either to unlocking BPC or up to rk-20 levels. As there is no tt return at all from repping, just purely skills, the issue is obviously not purely about tt returns, playing for free etc, but also about progress.

There is also competition for everyone's time, maybe free won't even cut it anymore after a certain point. Free needs to be attractive, paying 20$ a month needs to be even more so. The bottom line is that free to play is clearly only the loss-leader part of a business model that has to generate income.
 
....today comparable to the past? .... just a few years ago. ...

Project Entropia died a long time ago. We should not keep dwelling in the past.
*edit* NVM
 
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You're on the wrong subject here.

I started playing in 2006 with my old avatar.
I played for years, then took a break for 2 or 3 years, and my current avatar is from 2017.

I can say one thing: The game has never been easier than it is now for newcomers.
Especially when it comes to starting the game without a deposit.

It was really very difficult in the past. :lam:

Talking about the price of sweat or fruits is not relevant.
First, because, once again, MA is not directly responsible for the drop in the MU of sweat.
Thousands of people have been collecting sweat for years, so there are more and more ingame, the price is falling, it's normal.
And we can't ask MA to add sweat as an ingredient in every existing BP to fix it.

Secondly, the cost of the game at a beginner level is much less today than it was before.

Collecting sweat was harder. :sweat:

Also there was absolutely NOTHING offered.

There was no tutorial.
You were thrown right into the lion's den on your first day. :acid:
Now there's Thule, and they even get a few items and ammo for free there.

After that, they got very easily;
Armor (Scout, and very good Adj Pixie after mentoring), some plates, good beginner weapon bunkin (adjusted) rifle, FAP, ammo, vehicles, etc...
And that's only for Caly, they can have some more for free on some others planets.

Again, there were absolutely NOTHING for free in the past. :broke:

They have 10-40 HP mob (Puny) to skill up easily, not loosing so fast.
Try it, return on Puny is very sustainable. (alot more than when you had to start hunting on Bery or Daiki on your very first days)

And it's same for mining.
It was almost impossible to try mining at 1 PED drop whith zero skill and no deposit.
Now there is 0.1 PED drop for newbies.

In conclusion I'd say MA have done a great job on the newbies part.

Now it would be time to work on the average player, the medium level players.

I don't know, but I suppose someone has to pay for all that free newbie stuff.
And maybe I'm wrong but to me it looks like average level players do it.

I'm not against it, I think it's very good for newcomers now.
And this is probably good for the game.
But you can't ask even more.

Would be nice to work now on making it sustainable and enjoyable for the vast majority of players, that is medium level players.

The game becomes very "nasty" to most players when they reach about L45-55.
IMO, this is where MA should work now.
:wise:


This is so spot on!

Hi Cirrus, it seems we disagree too about the past.
You say, for example: Collecting sweat was harder. :sweat:
Well, I could sweat more per hour and the market price was a lot higher, so I don't see how it was harder, apart from getting Nea's tp in the first place, maybe, but that was part of feeling I was on the way up.... a noob with Nea's was already on the learning curve.

I agree that the 0.05 and 0.1 ped mining is a big improvement, ok.
I also agree that the first few hours were made a lot more enjoyable by Arkadia introducing the start chain and Thule as a getting-to-know area as well.

However, the problem increasingly became the continuation in my opinion. You mention L45-55, but it seems to me the noose is already tight a lot earlier. I always tried to see where I could get into profit and whether sustainably or just briefly. But I don't consider this is about me, but the reasonable expectation most people have that accompanies a decision to deposit a bit, then hopefully more. Maybe the path is too extended now, maybe new players want to grow faster than they should, spend too much and then retreat.

Out of interest, when you say 10-40 hp punies are very sustainable, do you mean no loss or even profit, or just really slow losses like going harvesting and losing 2 peds in 25 ped turnover and a couple of hours of play?

On the subject of costs, there is still a slow but steady stream of newish players who want to skill repairing on an MS to get either to unlocking BPC or up to rk-20 levels. As there is no tt return at all from repping, just purely skills, the issue is obviously not purely about tt returns, playing for free etc, but also about progress.

There is also competition for everyone's time, maybe free won't even cut it anymore after a certain point. Free needs to be attractive, paying 20$ a month needs to be even more so. The bottom line is that free to play is clearly only the loss-leader part of a business model that has to generate income.

Jetsina, Cirrus does actually have a good point there.
It actually IS a lot easier for noobs now than it was back then.
No small mobs, no free stuff, no paved roads.

Making things easier doesnt always mean that it increases the fun.

Hell, even just getting your TP's on the map was a daunting challenge!
But those challenges gave the game it's charm!
You actually had to struggle to get things done.

The current game caters to noobs way way more than back then!
 
The real question here is can and how do a real cash ecinomy and free to play model work together? While also allowing MA to profit?

See other free to play games have one big advantage - people aren't expecting to get the money (or more money) than they put in back out of the game.
 
I never said anything about multiple accounts... What's to stop some call center in India or Africa with 100 employees and 100 work stations from creating 100 legitimate accounts to earn 600-900 PED/day? Or some other such scenario... Wherever there's money to be made, there'll be people flocking in to take advantage, even if it's only $5/day.

Anyway, everyday you come in here clamoring to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!", instantly and immediately negating, without realizing it apparently, all the hard earned value that veteran players hold in their avatars and their accounts in the form of skills and highly desirable items that would just lose all their perceived value if what you are asking for was to be done.

You talk of tunnel vision while you are the one who is short-sighted and self-serving, without any concern for anyone else. You can't even be bothered to look into any of the things I and other posters in this thread have talked about, examples of ways to play Entropia for free or very very cheaply. Instead you just negate all that, and jump right back to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!"

You're just wasting my time, I'm done with you.

Legends

Glad your done with me but you never listened to anything I said. I never said make Entropia FREE to play. I said we need a comparable FREE to play model like we had to increase the number of depositors and stabilize the economy. You aren't getting it, a good FREE to play model is how MA and other companies profit. :laugh: Not sure why that isn't sinking in. :scratch2:

If a your hypothetical call center wasn't an issue in the past, why would it suddenly be an issue now if all we are doing is making the FREE to play model as good as it once was? You aren't even making any sense.

There are tons of players and depositors that this game misses out on because of an outdated FREE to play model. If a player leaves before they feel like it is a game they want to stay in and invest. That is a miss. This is a very important aspect of this games growth and how this game is marketed. It needs to be addressed and fixed so new players have the chance we all did when we joined this great game.

Above was my opening statement. I am trying to increase the number of depositors which will happen if we enhance the FREE to play model to an acceptable state like we had. A model that is marketed that way by MA. It's more money for the game as it flourishes and more is deposited, more players, more payout on Deeds etc...etc...
 
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Glad your done with me but you never listened to anything I said. I never said make Entropia FREE to play. I said we need a comparable FREE to play model like we had to increase the number of depositors and stabilize the economy. You aren't getting it, a good FREE to play model is how MA and other companies profit. :laugh: Not sure why that isn't sinking in. :scratch2:



Above was my opening statement. I am trying to increase the number of depositors which will happen if we enhance the FREE to play model to an acceptable state like we had. A model that is marketed that way by MA. It's more money for the game as it flourishes and more is deposited, more players, more payout on Deeds etc...etc...

I strongly disagree... The game is still free to play when you start out, it's still possible, easier then ever before even.

When I started playing Entropia, we didn't have Half-moon Cove/Bay or Camp Icarus, it was a much steeper curve and it was much more expensive to actually play at the beginning compared to today. The ONLY thing you could do for PED if you couldn't deposit was sweat, and once you converted it to PED, it would all be gone within an hour.

I just visited Orthos Oil field the other day and OMG, are you freakin' kidding me!? L2-L3 Drones!? Wow! I could hunt these guys all day long over there for free! I hunted them for like 30 minutes and was just getting Rubio after Rubio non-stop. We didn't have little mobs like that back then.

Anyone joining the game today has WAY more options and opportunity then there ever was before. And can play a LOT longer with a LOT less money than ever before. Those few PEDs you can get today from sweating will make it possible for you to have a LOT more playtime and enjoyment now.

There is no way that anyone can refute that. If you do, you just have no clue, step out of your little bubble and go hunt the punies with the newbies at Camp Icarus for an hour and see how much that costs, then we can talk.

I'm serious, go to Camp Icarus, like I did the other day, quit being a lazy punk that just complains on and on in this forum, take your damn avatar, and GO HUNT the L1 Caudatergus at Camp Icarus. Tell me how long you can make $10 last till it's all gone? Don't be a stupid prick, do an honest test, I'm really curious.

And if that's too expensive for you, go tame some Corinthian Kanins at Atlantis Archipelago, buy an 8 ped whip and tell me how long that lasts? Another one that's really cheap is Hunt the THING on RT, they give you a gun and free ammo at the beginning!

We're talking pennies per hour to play an online MMORPG...

You're just complaining because you can't play at a high level, it's too expensive for you. And you don't want to do anything else. It's either that or you've become lazy and entitled.
 
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I strongly disagree...

You're just complaining because you can't play at a high level, it's too expensive for you. And you don't want to do anything else. It's either that or you've become lazy and entitled.

First you can strongly disagree and that is just fine. Again not sure why you are getting huffy about a conversation. It's your opinion and you can disagree.

Second where am I complaining? This thread like most of my threads isn't about me personally, it's about the game. It's an objective view. I would like to further add you know nothing about me or my play style. I hit my yearly goals, ( every year )and enjoy this game tremendously. That is why I make threads on this game because I love it and am very passionate about it. So your idea that I can't play at some sort of level I want is likely only your own shortcomings being projected towards me.

This thread isn't about me but a discussion about the FREE to play model and can we make is as good as it used to be. Where do we go from here? Does MA have any updates and plans? Isn't that a good conversation to have? Again you can disagree, honestly that is up to you. However no idea why you are trying to make this personal :laugh:
 
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