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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    There is no way that anyone can refute that. If you do, you just have no clue, step out of your little bubble and go hunt the punies with the newbies at Camp Icarus for an hour and see how much that costs, then we can talk.
    What a wonderful turn of phrase you have...
    What should my response be - my bubble's bigger than your bubble? It's not even present bubbles people seem to be trapped in, but bubble memories of the past.

    Who needs Half-moon Cove or Camp Icarus - there was the lake area north of PA with mostly daikiba young, but other stuff around too, Camp Caravan had snable youngs and those oh so viscious females at twice the punch, etc etc. One difference is tp gathering is no longer the adventure it used to be... but that's not a cost thing.

    As for being able to play longer with less money.... free kinda makes longer open-ended, doesn't it?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    First, multiple accounts should be getting banded so it's not part of the equation.

    Second, I never said a sweater should make 20 ped a day

    The real money maker was fruit walking for stones and fruit which is now a dead market. Agree? Good now lets move on.

    I am not missing any part of the puzzle you have tunnel vision without taking a birds eye view of a FREE to play system that works and the money it generates. By attracting more potential buyers of micro transactions. It increases the player base of spenders in games that is designed to spend and cycle PED.

    Pretty sure MA wanted a FREE to play system in place like it did in the past that generated grinders and skillers like myself who deposit. If it wasn't there, they would of missed out on gaining new depositors. This is the FREE to play model to get people into the actual game and have a Web Shop where the money is made. FREE to play gaming is the most lucrative part of the gaming industry now. You want a good game to get into for FREE then love it enough to deposit. That is how they make millions.

    Also you act like when someone withdraws money that is bad, when it is essential for this game and economy's growth. You need people making money in this game to label it a Real Cash Economy. If there are no winners and no one makes a profit, it isn't an economy. Are we clear on that? Never is it a bad thing when a player did well and withdrew money! This is a winner and you could be a winner too! That is why people start this game! Lets not forget that

    If no one wins then it isn't a game. Yikes Let restore the FREE to play model to it's previous successful state. Again not asking to print PED just asking for a decent model that every FREE to play game needs to get players here in the first place (to spend money).
    I never said anything about multiple accounts... What's to stop some call center in India or Africa with 100 employees and 100 work stations from creating 100 legitimate accounts to earn 600-900 PED/day? Or some other such scenario... Wherever there's money to be made, there'll be people flocking in to take advantage, even if it's only $5/day.

    Anyway, everyday you come in here clamoring to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!", instantly and immediately negating, without realizing it apparently, all the hard earned value that veteran players hold in their avatars and their accounts in the form of skills and highly desirable items that would just lose all their perceived value if what you are asking for was to be done.

    You talk of tunnel vision while you are the one who is short-sighted and self-serving, without any concern for anyone else. You can't even be bothered to look into any of the things I and other posters in this thread have talked about, examples of ways to play Entropia for free or very very cheaply. Instead you just negate all that, and jump right back to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!"

    You're just wasting my time, I'm done with you.

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  3. #23
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    this is not a very good post, EU or rather PE has never been free and there was no way other than oil rig to get free peds at the start.
    the major difference is that for a long time it was possible to work for others or helps for somes peds.
    the ubber items was worth no more than $ 3k and an investment of $ 100 could make you start a career as a hunter, the losses were not so much due to loot but rather the desire to have better equipment or an attempt to additional activity which made us deposit other peds without stress of violent loss in the classic activities typical of other mmorpg.

    the sweat was a huge stupidity from MA, I don't know how people can have this desire to start like that.
    Born in Jason Centre in 2003
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    ...
    Hi Cirrus, it seems we disagree too about the past.
    You say, for example: Collecting sweat was harder.
    Well, I could sweat more per hour and the market price was a lot higher, so I don't see how it was harder, apart from getting Nea's tp in the first place, maybe, but that was part of feeling I was on the way up.... a noob with Nea's was already on the learning curve.

    I agree that the 0.05 and 0.1 ped mining is a big improvement, ok.
    I also agree that the first few hours were made a lot more enjoyable by Arkadia introducing the start chain and Thule as a getting-to-know area as well.

    However, the problem increasingly became the continuation in my opinion. You mention L45-55, but it seems to me the noose is already tight a lot earlier. I always tried to see where I could get into profit and whether sustainably or just briefly. But I don't consider this is about me, but the reasonable expectation most people have that accompanies a decision to deposit a bit, then hopefully more. Maybe the path is too extended now, maybe new players want to grow faster than they should, spend too much and then retreat.

    Out of interest, when you say 10-40 hp punies are very sustainable, do you mean no loss or even profit, or just really slow losses like going harvesting and losing 2 peds in 25 ped turnover and a couple of hours of play?

    On the subject of costs, there is still a slow but steady stream of newish players who want to skill repairing on an MS to get either to unlocking BPC or up to rk-20 levels. As there is no tt return at all from repping, just purely skills, the issue is obviously not purely about tt returns, playing for free etc, but also about progress.

    There is also competition for everyone's time, maybe free won't even cut it anymore after a certain point. Free needs to be attractive, paying 20$ a month needs to be even more so. The bottom line is that free to play is clearly only the loss-leader part of a business model that has to generate income.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    ....today comparable to the past? .... just a few years ago. ...
    Project Entropia died a long time ago. We should not keep dwelling in the past.
    *edit* NVM

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    You're on the wrong subject here.

    I started playing in 2006 with my old avatar.
    I played for years, then took a break for 2 or 3 years, and my current avatar is from 2017.

    I can say one thing: The game has never been easier than it is now for newcomers.
    Especially when it comes to starting the game without a deposit.

    It was really very difficult in the past.

    Talking about the price of sweat or fruits is not relevant.
    First, because, once again, MA is not directly responsible for the drop in the MU of sweat.
    Thousands of people have been collecting sweat for years, so there are more and more ingame, the price is falling, it's normal.
    And we can't ask MA to add sweat as an ingredient in every existing BP to fix it.

    Secondly, the cost of the game at a beginner level is much less today than it was before.

    Collecting sweat was harder.

    Also there was absolutely NOTHING offered.

    There was no tutorial.
    You were thrown right into the lion's den on your first day.
    Now there's Thule, and they even get a few items and ammo for free there.

    After that, they got very easily;
    Armor (Scout, and very good Adj Pixie after mentoring), some plates, good beginner weapon bunkin (adjusted) rifle, FAP, ammo, vehicles, etc...
    And that's only for Caly, they can have some more for free on some others planets.

    Again, there were absolutely NOTHING for free in the past.

    They have 10-40 HP mob (Puny) to skill up easily, not loosing so fast.
    Try it, return on Puny is very sustainable. (alot more than when you had to start hunting on Bery or Daiki on your very first days)

    And it's same for mining.
    It was almost impossible to try mining at 1 PED drop whith zero skill and no deposit.
    Now there is 0.1 PED drop for newbies.

    In conclusion I'd say MA have done a great job on the newbies part.

    Now it would be time to work on the average player, the medium level players.

    I don't know, but I suppose someone has to pay for all that free newbie stuff.
    And maybe I'm wrong but to me it looks like average level players do it.

    I'm not against it, I think it's very good for newcomers now.
    And this is probably good for the game.
    But you can't ask even more.

    Would be nice to work now on making it sustainable and enjoyable for the vast majority of players, that is medium level players.

    The game becomes very "nasty" to most players when they reach about L45-55.
    IMO, this is where MA should work now.

    This is so spot on!

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsina View Post
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    Hi Cirrus, it seems we disagree too about the past.
    You say, for example: Collecting sweat was harder.
    Well, I could sweat more per hour and the market price was a lot higher, so I don't see how it was harder, apart from getting Nea's tp in the first place, maybe, but that was part of feeling I was on the way up.... a noob with Nea's was already on the learning curve.

    I agree that the 0.05 and 0.1 ped mining is a big improvement, ok.
    I also agree that the first few hours were made a lot more enjoyable by Arkadia introducing the start chain and Thule as a getting-to-know area as well.

    However, the problem increasingly became the continuation in my opinion. You mention L45-55, but it seems to me the noose is already tight a lot earlier. I always tried to see where I could get into profit and whether sustainably or just briefly. But I don't consider this is about me, but the reasonable expectation most people have that accompanies a decision to deposit a bit, then hopefully more. Maybe the path is too extended now, maybe new players want to grow faster than they should, spend too much and then retreat.

    Out of interest, when you say 10-40 hp punies are very sustainable, do you mean no loss or even profit, or just really slow losses like going harvesting and losing 2 peds in 25 ped turnover and a couple of hours of play?

    On the subject of costs, there is still a slow but steady stream of newish players who want to skill repairing on an MS to get either to unlocking BPC or up to rk-20 levels. As there is no tt return at all from repping, just purely skills, the issue is obviously not purely about tt returns, playing for free etc, but also about progress.

    There is also competition for everyone's time, maybe free won't even cut it anymore after a certain point. Free needs to be attractive, paying 20$ a month needs to be even more so. The bottom line is that free to play is clearly only the loss-leader part of a business model that has to generate income.
    Jetsina, Cirrus does actually have a good point there.
    It actually IS a lot easier for noobs now than it was back then.
    No small mobs, no free stuff, no paved roads.

    Making things easier doesnt always mean that it increases the fun.

    Hell, even just getting your TP's on the map was a daunting challenge!
    But those challenges gave the game it's charm!
    You actually had to struggle to get things done.

    The current game caters to noobs way way more than back then!

  7. #27
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    The real question here is can and how do a real cash ecinomy and free to play model work together? While also allowing MA to profit?

    See other free to play games have one big advantage - people aren't expecting to get the money (or more money) than they put in back out of the game.


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    I never said anything about multiple accounts... What's to stop some call center in India or Africa with 100 employees and 100 work stations from creating 100 legitimate accounts to earn 600-900 PED/day? Or some other such scenario... Wherever there's money to be made, there'll be people flocking in to take advantage, even if it's only $5/day.

    Anyway, everyday you come in here clamoring to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!", instantly and immediately negating, without realizing it apparently, all the hard earned value that veteran players hold in their avatars and their accounts in the form of skills and highly desirable items that would just lose all their perceived value if what you are asking for was to be done.

    You talk of tunnel vision while you are the one who is short-sighted and self-serving, without any concern for anyone else. You can't even be bothered to look into any of the things I and other posters in this thread have talked about, examples of ways to play Entropia for free or very very cheaply. Instead you just negate all that, and jump right back to "MAKE Entropia FREE to PLAY!"

    You're just wasting my time, I'm done with you.

    Legends
    Glad your done with me but you never listened to anything I said. I never said make Entropia FREE to play. I said we need a comparable FREE to play model like we had to increase the number of depositors and stabilize the economy. You aren't getting it, a good FREE to play model is how MA and other companies profit. Not sure why that isn't sinking in.

    If a your hypothetical call center wasn't an issue in the past, why would it suddenly be an issue now if all we are doing is making the FREE to play model as good as it once was? You aren't even making any sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    There are tons of players and depositors that this game misses out on because of an outdated FREE to play model. If a player leaves before they feel like it is a game they want to stay in and invest. That is a miss. This is a very important aspect of this games growth and how this game is marketed. It needs to be addressed and fixed so new players have the chance we all did when we joined this great game.
    Above was my opening statement. I am trying to increase the number of depositors which will happen if we enhance the FREE to play model to an acceptable state like we had. A model that is marketed that way by MA. It's more money for the game as it flourishes and more is deposited, more players, more payout on Deeds etc...etc...
    Last edited by The Abomb; 01-28-2020 at 17:46.
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  9. #29
    Prowler Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Abomb View Post
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    Glad your done with me but you never listened to anything I said. I never said make Entropia FREE to play. I said we need a comparable FREE to play model like we had to increase the number of depositors and stabilize the economy. You aren't getting it, a good FREE to play model is how MA and other companies profit. Not sure why that isn't sinking in.



    Above was my opening statement. I am trying to increase the number of depositors which will happen if we enhance the FREE to play model to an acceptable state like we had. A model that is marketed that way by MA. It's more money for the game as it flourishes and more is deposited, more players, more payout on Deeds etc...etc...
    I strongly disagree... The game is still free to play when you start out, it's still possible, easier then ever before even.

    When I started playing Entropia, we didn't have Half-moon Cove/Bay or Camp Icarus, it was a much steeper curve and it was much more expensive to actually play at the beginning compared to today. The ONLY thing you could do for PED if you couldn't deposit was sweat, and once you converted it to PED, it would all be gone within an hour.

    I just visited Orthos Oil field the other day and OMG, are you freakin' kidding me!? L2-L3 Drones!? Wow! I could hunt these guys all day long over there for free! I hunted them for like 30 minutes and was just getting Rubio after Rubio non-stop. We didn't have little mobs like that back then.

    Anyone joining the game today has WAY more options and opportunity then there ever was before. And can play a LOT longer with a LOT less money than ever before. Those few PEDs you can get today from sweating will make it possible for you to have a LOT more playtime and enjoyment now.

    There is no way that anyone can refute that. If you do, you just have no clue, step out of your little bubble and go hunt the punies with the newbies at Camp Icarus for an hour and see how much that costs, then we can talk.

    I'm serious, go to Camp Icarus, like I did the other day, quit being a lazy punk that just complains on and on in this forum, take your damn avatar, and GO HUNT the L1 Caudatergus at Camp Icarus. Tell me how long you can make $10 last till it's all gone? Don't be a stupid prick, do an honest test, I'm really curious.

    And if that's too expensive for you, go tame some Corinthian Kanins at Atlantis Archipelago, buy an 8 ped whip and tell me how long that lasts? Another one that's really cheap is Hunt the THING on RT, they give you a gun and free ammo at the beginning!

    We're talking pennies per hour to play an online MMORPG...

    You're just complaining because you can't play at a high level, it's too expensive for you. And you don't want to do anything else. It's either that or you've become lazy and entitled.
    Last edited by Legends; 01-28-2020 at 17:47.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    I strongly disagree...

    You're just complaining because you can't play at a high level, it's too expensive for you. And you don't want to do anything else. It's either that or you've become lazy and entitled.
    First you can strongly disagree and that is just fine. Again not sure why you are getting huffy about a conversation. It's your opinion and you can disagree.

    Second where am I complaining? This thread like most of my threads isn't about me personally, it's about the game. It's an objective view. I would like to further add you know nothing about me or my play style. I hit my yearly goals, ( every year )and enjoy this game tremendously. That is why I make threads on this game because I love it and am very passionate about it. So your idea that I can't play at some sort of level I want is likely only your own shortcomings being projected towards me.

    This thread isn't about me but a discussion about the FREE to play model and can we make is as good as it used to be. Where do we go from here? Does MA have any updates and plans? Isn't that a good conversation to have? Again you can disagree, honestly that is up to you. However no idea why you are trying to make this personal
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