Expectation

Cyaron

Hatchling
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Posts
8
Hello guys,

I finally understood how this game works and I want to share my view, as it tooks me some time to understand wheres my money. This is my view so if you are not agreed, please don't be a hater!! You can support with positive feedback and suggestions.

PED Value:
10 ped = 1 US$

1st round: Hunt time ~ 3 hours

- Ammo 1515ped
- Repair costs: 54.78ped

- TT value Shrapnel: 1147.06 ped
- TT value loot: 314.29 ped (Items)
Robot Weapon Grip - 93.78 * 109% = 102.22 (+8.44)
Robot Filter - 97.92 *101% = 98.89 (+0.97)
Adaptive Fire Rate Com. - 10.50 * 132% = 13.86 (+3.36)
Socket 5 Com. - 32.40 * 105% = 34.02 (+ 1.62)
Socket 6 com. - 33.20 * 102% = 33.86 (+ 0.66)
Nanochip 3L - 12 * 118% = 14.16 (+2.16)
Nanochip 3L - 8.13 * 118% = 9.59 (+1.43)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 20.50 * 106% = 21.73 (+1.23)
Total = 19.874 ped (MU)

Total: Spend: 1569.78 ped
TT Return: 1461.35 ped (-108.43 ped) 93.11%
Total lose/round: (-88.556 ped) / 10 = 8.85$

2nd round: Hunt time ~ 2.15 hours
1st. hour 442 ped ammo
2nd. hour 655 ped ammo

- Ammo 1159.92 ped
- Repair costs: 32.28 ped

- TT value Shrapnel: 779.83 ped
- TT value loot: 260ped (Items)
Robot Weapon Grip - 79.22 * 109% = 86.34 (+7.12)
Robot Filter - 46.51 *101% = 46.97 (+0.46)
Adaptive Fire Rate Com. - 8.40 * 132% = 11.08 (+2.68)
Socket 5 Com. - 25.60 * 105% = 26.88 (+ 1.28)
Socket 6 com. - 25.90 * 102% = 26.41 (+ 0.51)
Generic Nano Adjuster - 10 * 200% = 20 (+5.00)
Bio ID Verification - 16 * 105% = 24 (+8.00)
Nanochip 3L - 9.59 * 118% = 11.31 (+1.72)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 17.04 * 106% = 18.06 (+1.02)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 11.19 * 106% = 11.86 (+0.67)
Kilic mark L - 22.58 * 106% = 23.93 (+1.35)
Total = 58.04 ped (MU)

Total: Spend: 1192.2 ped
TT Return: 1039.83 ped (-152.37 ped) % 87.21%
Total lose/round: (-94.33 ped) / 10 = 9.43$

Now let's make a summarise:

Normal case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.
If you sell all the items on TT return, as shown above, we have lost 8.85$ + 9.43$ = 18.28$ /day.
At 18.28$ *30 days = 548.4$ - basically you will lose all the peds of your deposit of 548.4$ per month if you hunt 5 hours a day and you sell all items to TT.

Abstract case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.
Now let's keep all the items and recycle only shrapnels.
Calculate (temperary lossess of items that we will store)
1st round: Ammo 1515 PEDS - TT value Shrapnel: 1147.06 peds = -367.94 peds / 10 = 36.78$
2nd round: Ammo 1159.92 PEDS - TT value Shrapnel: 779.83 peds = 380.09 / 10 = 38.01$
36.78$ + 38.01$ = 416.87$ /day.
416.87$ * 30 days = 12,506.1$ - This will be your investment to keep all the loot in storage and you will sell later, but from this you will loose 548.4$ after you sell them.

Realistic case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.

Sell everything to TT but keep the items that are +105% for mats and tt all L items that won't worth to put at auction.

1st round: from TT return: 1461.35 - Robot Weapon Grip & Adaptive Fire Rate = 1357.07 (-157.93PED / 10 = 15.78$(losses))
2nd round: from TT return: 1039.83 - Robot Weapon Grip & Adaptive Fire Rate & Generic Nano Adj & Bio ID Veri = 926.21 (-233.71PED / 10 = 23.371$(losses))
Total: 15.78$ + 23.37$ = 39.15$ / day * 30 days = 1174$
 
Hello guys,

I finally understood how this game works and I want to share my view, as it tooks me some time to understand wheres my money. This is my view so if you are not agreed, please don't be a hater!! You can support with positive feedback and suggestions.

PED Value:
10 ped = 1 US$

1st round: Hunt time ~ 3 hours

- Ammo 1515ped
- Repair costs: 54.78ped

- TT value Shrapnel: 1147.06 ped
- TT value loot: 314.29 ped (Items)
Robot Weapon Grip - 93.78 * 109% = 102.22 (+8.44)
Robot Filter - 97.92 *101% = 98.89 (+0.97)
Adaptive Fire Rate Com. - 10.50 * 132% = 13.86 (+3.36)
Socket 5 Com. - 32.40 * 105% = 34.02 (+ 1.62)
Socket 6 com. - 33.20 * 102% = 33.86 (+ 0.66)
Nanochip 3L - 12 * 118% = 14.16 (+2.16)
Nanochip 3L - 8.13 * 118% = 9.59 (+1.43)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 20.50 * 106% = 21.73 (+1.23)
Total = 19.874 ped (MU)

Total: Spend: 1569.78 ped
TT Return: 1461.35 ped (-108.43 ped) 93.11%
Total lose/round: (-88.556 ped) / 10 = 8.85$

2nd round: Hunt time ~ 2.15 hours
1st. hour 442 ped ammo
2nd. hour 655 ped ammo

- Ammo 1159.92 ped
- Repair costs: 32.28 ped

- TT value Shrapnel: 779.83 ped
- TT value loot: 260ped (Items)
Robot Weapon Grip - 79.22 * 109% = 86.34 (+7.12)
Robot Filter - 46.51 *101% = 46.97 (+0.46)
Adaptive Fire Rate Com. - 8.40 * 132% = 11.08 (+2.68)
Socket 5 Com. - 25.60 * 105% = 26.88 (+ 1.28)
Socket 6 com. - 25.90 * 102% = 26.41 (+ 0.51)
Generic Nano Adjuster - 10 * 200% = 20 (+5.00)
Bio ID Verification - 16 * 105% = 24 (+8.00)
Nanochip 3L - 9.59 * 118% = 11.31 (+1.72)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 17.04 * 106% = 18.06 (+1.02)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 11.19 * 106% = 11.86 (+0.67)
Kilic mark L - 22.58 * 106% = 23.93 (+1.35)
Total = 58.04 ped (MU)

Total: Spend: 1192.2 ped
TT Return: 1039.83 ped (-152.37 ped) % 87.21%
Total lose/round: (-94.33 ped) / 10 = 9.43$

Now let's make a summarise:

Normal case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.
If you sell all the items on TT return, as shown above, we have lost 8.85$ + 9.43$ = 18.28$ /day.
At 18.28$ *30 days = 548.4$ - basically you will lose all the peds of your deposit of 548.4$ per month if you hunt 5 hours a day and you sell all items to TT.

Abstract case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.
Now let's keep all the items and recycle only shrapnels.
Calculate (temperary lossess of items that we will store)
1st round: Ammo 1515 PEDS - TT value Shrapnel: 1147.06 peds = -367.94 peds / 10 = 36.78$
2nd round: Ammo 1159.92 PEDS - TT value Shrapnel: 779.83 peds = 380.09 / 10 = 38.01$
36.78$ + 38.01$ = 416.87$ /day.
416.87$ * 30 days = 12,506.1$ - This will be your investment to keep all the loot in storage and you will sell later, but from this you will loose 548.4$ after you sell them.

Realistic case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.

Sell everything to TT but keep the items that are +105% for mats and tt all L items that won't worth to put at auction.

1st round: from TT return: 1461.35 - Robot Weapon Grip & Adaptive Fire Rate = 1357.07 (-157.93PED / 10 = 15.78$(losses))
2nd round: from TT return: 1039.83 - Robot Weapon Grip & Adaptive Fire Rate & Generic Nano Adj & Bio ID Veri = 926.21 (-233.71PED / 10 = 23.371$(losses))
Total: 15.78$ + 23.37$ = 39.15$ / day * 30 days = 1174$

That's right. You can take this very small sample size and draw your conclusions and then leave the game, that's fine, lots of people probably do that. Or you can stick around, learn and figure out ways to actually profit, there's probably a couple dozen different ways to do it at this time, might not succeed every time but it can and does work.

The difference with Entropia that you are not talking about or that you don't realize is that in Entropia, it's really your money, your items, all the virtual items on your account is really yours. You can sell it, trade it, withdraw it, and that's ok. Try doing that in EVE Online or WoW lol, good luck!

In Entropia, it's OK to make money, your account won't get banned or locked for that.

Legends
 
You can play the game for the enjoyment. Know you wont make money from the game - MA is not a charity, they are a business. If anything its like a casino - you may be very lucky. If you aren't - well its a cost of playing a game for fun.

Just don't go overboard & spend money that you cannot afford to lose.

There is a way to make money though - not off MA but from other players, not begging or scamming, but providing a service, buying stuff low & selling it high.
There is a lot of work involved in doing this - it is far from my idea of fun, but there are players who enjoy the challenge
 
That's right. You can take this very small sample size and draw your conclusions and then leave the game, that's fine, lots of people probably do that. Or you can stick around, learn and figure out ways to actually profit, there's probably a couple dozen different ways to do it at this time, might not succeed every time but it can and does work.

The difference with Entropia that you are not talking about or that you don't realize is that in Entropia, it's really your money, your items, all the virtual items on your account is really yours. You can sell it, trade it, withdraw it, and that's ok. Try doing that in EVE Online or WoW lol, good luck!

In Entropia, it's OK to make money, your account won't get banned or locked for that.

Legends

actually its neither your money nor your items as soon as the money gets to MA. its MA's stuff until they allow you to get your money back doing a withdrawal. otherwise they couldnt lock your account and keep your stuff cos that would be stealing if it would technically be yours.
 
actually its neither your money nor your items as soon as the money gets to MA. its MA's stuff until they allow you to get your money back doing a withdrawal. otherwise they couldnt lock your account and keep your stuff cos that would be stealing if it would technically be yours.

semantics... you know what I mean.
 
That's right. You can take this very small sample size and draw your conclusions and then leave the game, that's fine, lots of people probably do that. Or you can stick around, learn and figure out ways to actually profit, there's probably a couple dozen different ways to do it at this time, might not succeed every time but it can and does work.

The difference with Entropia that you are not talking about or that you don't realize is that in Entropia, it's really your money, your items, all the virtual items on your account is really yours. You can sell it, trade it, withdraw it, and that's ok. Try doing that in EVE Online or WoW lol, good luck!

In Entropia, it's OK to make money, your account won't get banned or locked for that.

Legends

In order for someone to have profit, someone else will have to have losses. That's a natural law in EU.
 
thats not what semantics means. its a totally different story

No it's not. A normal player won't get locked and loose all his assets. Normally you will get payed. Which is different from any other game.
That technically all items are belong to Mindark until you get payed is a difference of semantics.
 
This game needs research, and lots of it to be effective. This is the hardest game you will play, but it is entirely possible to make big money in this game, and change your financial future for the better, like I have. Just understand it takes a lot of work...like anything else of value.
 
Hello guys,

I finally understood how this game works and I want to share my view, as it tooks me some time to understand wheres my money. This is my view so if you are not agreed, please don't be a hater!! You can support with positive feedback and suggestions.

PED Value:
10 ped = 1 US$

1st round: Hunt time ~ 3 hours

- Ammo 1515ped
- Repair costs: 54.78ped

- TT value Shrapnel: 1147.06 ped
- TT value loot: 314.29 ped (Items)
Robot Weapon Grip - 93.78 * 109% = 102.22 (+8.44)
Robot Filter - 97.92 *101% = 98.89 (+0.97)
Adaptive Fire Rate Com. - 10.50 * 132% = 13.86 (+3.36)
Socket 5 Com. - 32.40 * 105% = 34.02 (+ 1.62)
Socket 6 com. - 33.20 * 102% = 33.86 (+ 0.66)
Nanochip 3L - 12 * 118% = 14.16 (+2.16)
Nanochip 3L - 8.13 * 118% = 9.59 (+1.43)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 20.50 * 106% = 21.73 (+1.23)
Total = 19.874 ped (MU)

Total: Spend: 1569.78 ped
TT Return: 1461.35 ped (-108.43 ped) 93.11%
Total lose/round: (-88.556 ped) / 10 = 8.85$

2nd round: Hunt time ~ 2.15 hours
1st. hour 442 ped ammo
2nd. hour 655 ped ammo

- Ammo 1159.92 ped
- Repair costs: 32.28 ped

- TT value Shrapnel: 779.83 ped
- TT value loot: 260ped (Items)
Robot Weapon Grip - 79.22 * 109% = 86.34 (+7.12)
Robot Filter - 46.51 *101% = 46.97 (+0.46)
Adaptive Fire Rate Com. - 8.40 * 132% = 11.08 (+2.68)
Socket 5 Com. - 25.60 * 105% = 26.88 (+ 1.28)
Socket 6 com. - 25.90 * 102% = 26.41 (+ 0.51)
Generic Nano Adjuster - 10 * 200% = 20 (+5.00)
Bio ID Verification - 16 * 105% = 24 (+8.00)
Nanochip 3L - 9.59 * 118% = 11.31 (+1.72)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 17.04 * 106% = 18.06 (+1.02)
Regeneration Chip 5L - 11.19 * 106% = 11.86 (+0.67)
Kilic mark L - 22.58 * 106% = 23.93 (+1.35)
Total = 58.04 ped (MU)

Total: Spend: 1192.2 ped
TT Return: 1039.83 ped (-152.37 ped) % 87.21%
Total lose/round: (-94.33 ped) / 10 = 9.43$

Now let's make a summarise:

Normal case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.
If you sell all the items on TT return, as shown above, we have lost 8.85$ + 9.43$ = 18.28$ /day.
At 18.28$ *30 days = 548.4$ - basically you will lose all the peds of your deposit of 548.4$ per month if you hunt 5 hours a day and you sell all items to TT.

Abstract case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.
Now let's keep all the items and recycle only shrapnels.
Calculate (temperary lossess of items that we will store)
1st round: Ammo 1515 PEDS - TT value Shrapnel: 1147.06 peds = -367.94 peds / 10 = 36.78$
2nd round: Ammo 1159.92 PEDS - TT value Shrapnel: 779.83 peds = 380.09 / 10 = 38.01$
36.78$ + 38.01$ = 416.87$ /day.
416.87$ * 30 days = 12,506.1$ - This will be your investment to keep all the loot in storage and you will sell later, but from this you will loose 548.4$ after you sell them.

Realistic case:
I'll say 5 hours daily of playing. 150h/month.

Sell everything to TT but keep the items that are +105% for mats and tt all L items that won't worth to put at auction.

1st round: from TT return: 1461.35 - Robot Weapon Grip & Adaptive Fire Rate = 1357.07 (-157.93PED / 10 = 15.78$(losses))
2nd round: from TT return: 1039.83 - Robot Weapon Grip & Adaptive Fire Rate & Generic Nano Adj & Bio ID Veri = 926.21 (-233.71PED / 10 = 23.371$(losses))
Total: 15.78$ + 23.37$ = 39.15$ / day * 30 days = 1174$


I guess this is why people should start shooting punies only?


Rgds

Ace
 
Believe in yourself.

The sky is the limit.

[ Insert random bullshit ]
 
You must make a blood sacrifice and pledge your soul unto Lootius before the the third full moon from creating your avatar. Otherwise you are doomed forever. Your mentor should have told you this.
 
How many of you will still playing if you knew from the start that you will gonna lose your deposit 100% no matter what mob you hunt? Hunting system is DOOM right now and I tested it. I speak with some UBER players and they are agreed with me.

You must be very crazy about playing a game so expensive to hunt a few hours with NO chance of getting your money back. PS: don't mention about globals or HOF, as when I saw one will bring me up to 90%+ return.

What I wrote is black on white example of no matter what you hunt at low level you will lose 100%. PS: I'm under 45 hit/dmg.

Question is: If new players will know this, they will still make a deposit? The strategy here is they say return is 90%+ but they won't say anything about that on at 10% loses you will have an MU at maxim at 1%. And in few hours you will have rest of 9% FOREVER, the system will discharge that consumption, and you will start to recycle again from the rest of 90%, in the end, you will be at 0 peds in and the game will NEVER pay you back. To play more you have to do another deposit. Well, after you do, cause you don't know how it's work really, you will end like me, spend some money, but you don't want to quit as you already spend and you consider it's not fair. Start to learn new things and you will try to get your money back.

Honestly, if I knew this I'll never hunt in the first play and will have a totally different approach.

Hope my post will enlight others and will WARNING others!!!

I read forum to try to understand how return is working, but I coudn't understand until I tested on my own.
 
You need more runs in order to get some valid data... Months worth even. The game tends to repay you with globals/HOF's now and then that adds the total closer to 98% return. Sometimes more, sometimes less - but in the end, it evens out usually if you play it smart enough. Don't use gear you don't have skills for. Don't hunt certain mobs at certain times (loot pattern). Don't switch mobs constantly - especially during a hunt etc etc etc. The list goes on and on... You wont learn all of this over night and this thread is just whining imo... You don't understand the game and that's not MA or the game's fault. It's your own. :wise:
 
Fuck it I'll bite

YJz3lZs.png



Your individual experiences may vary.
 
Also, MA has to pay the bills, so yeah of course you are going to lose in TT long term, why would you expect otherwise though?
 
I'm not sure where your scenarios or conclusions were supposed to be, but it sounded like you are saying hunting is a huge loss no matter what and if you want to play this game hours a day it will cost a crap load of money.
To that I say, yes ... yes you are absolutely correct in my experience. I'm no uber and don't do everything the most efficient way, but I have been playing for 10+ years and have spend more than I care to say. That is my conclusion, the game is too damn expensive to play. I've been up, I've been way down, I've won some cool things, made good friends, etc. Problem is I couldn't continue to justify how much I spend vs what I get out. It's still my favorite game for many reasons, but you can only rip through $100 in a couple days doing what you consider "normal" activities for your level before you think trying it again is f-in stupid and just throwing money away. I hate telling new people that, and it for sure is not the only experience or outcome you can have - but I cannot see a way around the fact that you end up losing and it can get high.
I would do it again if I had the choice, but would have made some different choices along the way. I wouldn't hunt much at all if I was new - not for a long time.
I also say screw the "you need a bigger sample size," sure one, two - three runs doesn't tell you much statistically, but I can tell you my 10 years of runs - it's the same shit you get. Saying do more runs when the runs are horrible also never makes sense to me. You can get lucky and hit big, you do eventually get some payback to take you closer to even. There are outliers that seem to make it all work well and they don't spend. I have to say in my ramblings - dont' spend anything that you cant afford to loose or are going to be upset with loosing.
MA needs to make this game cheaper to play or it will just continue to stay how it is - same limited number of player base.
 
If the only thing you are interested in doing in this game is to shoot mobs, and you are absolutely NOT going to do anything else, than I think everyone will agree here that you can't come ahead in the long run, just with hunting alone, very very very few might have but this would be purely based on luck and that is how the game is designed.

All you are doing when you are shooting mobs is converting PEDs to skills, and rolling the dice for a chance at a jackpot, similar to how the slot machines work.

But like Jhereg, I'll bite...

I've deposited about 22k usd over the last 13 years or so that I have been a depositor. I estimate that to be worth well over 40k now, but I haven't done the math on it in several years so it's probably more. Most of that was from an early investment into CLDs but that's not really the point. The point is there are a lot of different opportunities in this game to make money if you are willing to do some research about it and talk to people.

The Entropia platform is unique in the world, it's a persistent virtual universe where the virtual items and currency really belongs to you. The question you gotta ask yourself is:

- Do you want to gamble?
- Or do you want to work hard and actually earn some money?

Hint: I could name you probably 15 players just off the top of my head right now that have chosen the second option, you are not one of them...

Legends

PS: MindArk understands how all this works of course and they are getting mighty crafty in figuring out ways to get the money to flow back from the investors and go to the hunters, cause that's where the game grows the most. I expect that this is what's going to happen as they further develop Land Plots, There have been and there will always be golden opportunities in hunting where you just can't lose cause of high demand for specific things, but you have to be able to seize those opportunities, and timing is of the essence.
 
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I've deposited about 22k usd over the last 13 years or so that I have been a depositor. I estimate that to be worth well over 40k now, but I haven't done the math on it in several years so it's probably more. Most of that was from an early investment into CLDs but that's not really the point.

On the contrary, this IS exactly the point. :wise:

But I'm not even gonna start getting into this discussion AGAIN...

Sorry, don't pay attention to what I'm saying, I was just passing by.. :rolleyes:
 
On the contrary, this IS exactly the point. :wise:

But I'm not even gonna start getting into this discussion AGAIN...

Sorry, don't pay attention to what I'm saying, I was just passing by.. :rolleyes:

Keyword here is 'Most', which implies 'not all'. But you don't read so I'm not gonna bother. I'm just pointing this out for other people's benefit.

Lots of the profit came from other sources, I'd say the CLDs only represents about 50% of that profit, rest came from elsewhere...
 
Keyword here is 'Most', which implies 'not all'. But you don't read so I'm not gonna bother. I'm just pointing this out for other people's benefit.

Lots of the profit came from other sources, I'd say the CLDs only represents about 50% of that profit, rest came from elsewhere...

You're so altruistic... It's a beautiful thing to see. :tiphat:
 
You're so altruistic... It's a beautiful thing to see. :tiphat:

Not sure why you feel the need to be facetious like that towards me, I'm just taking part in a forum discussion and providing and sharing my own personal experiences and data, which is rare insight not often freely given.

I work really hard in Entropia, harder right now than anyone could even imagine, spending every waking moment online. All that you imply really in this facetious comment of yours above, is that it's all about self, which it is not, far from it. I do a TON of research about stuff and share most of what I learn with others, in this forum and in the game, chatting directly with dozens of players everyday. Anyone that starts up a chat with me and asks me anything about the game, I will share with them what I know and give them honest answers.

I am a person of goodwill, who tries to do good, but at the same time, I work hard, and I'm of the opinion that the world (real world and virtual alike), is based on a principle of exchange, i.e. if you provide something of value to someone, that someone should give or provide something of comparable value back. Should I spend every waking moment online AND give everyone all my money as well? Maybe that's what you think I should do...

Find another individual to target with your hurtful remarks, I really don't deserve that sort of treatment. And if you honestly feel that I do, at least be man enough to state the exact reasons why you seem to resent me or my post instead of hiding behind this sort of disingenuous reply... It really helps no one and contributes nothing to the discussion.

Legends
 
Not sure why you feel the need to be facetious like that towards me...

There's no personal attacks here, I'm just tired of repeating the same thing over and over again on this forum.

I know how to make money in EU, I've already explained it, the problem is that many people just CAN'T, only because it takes a very big initial investment. (alot of money)

And alot of people don't want to believe this (I easily understand them), because it seems completely illogical that a money game doesn't give you a chance to come out a winner.
Only a very few people, when they start EU, can imagine playing a game where 100% of the players are losing. (I'm talking about PLAYERS here, and not investors or workers)

So when someone comes here "complaining" that it's impossible not to lose a lot of money ingame, just BY PLAYING the game.
And as an answer, the same people always come and contradict this, when they are always big investors, land owners, shop owners, traders, AND often own a lot of Deeds, it tends to annoy me, and I can't help but put my foot down.

I've already explained a lot of this in my previous posts, which you can easily find if you're interested.

To sumarize, I would say that, as you confirm here, EU can only be profitable if it's a JOB.
BUT the problem is that most people, the average gamer, don't know about it.

Maybe you're right, but OP is right too, PLAYING the game by just PLAYING it will just make you loose money.
And THIS money is used to pay for big investors' benefits.

And I think that's wrong. (I hope I'm allowed to think what I'm thinking)

Again, no personal attacks.
Irony is the best way I know how to express myself.
At my age you don't change the way you are.. :dunce:

Like I said, I didn't even want to get into this discussion... I failed. :rolleyes:


PS:

Now, to understand if a behaviour is good, you have to imagine what would happen if everyone would do the same thing.

So I'll let you imagine, what would happen to EU if 100% of the players would start making money by the only means possible, i.e. Stop playing (hunt/mining etc..), buying deeds, trading, and waiting...

That show one important thing;
In order for investors to make money in EU, they NEED players to loose money.

Again I think there is something wrong here.
 
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- Do you want to gamble?
- Or do you want to work hard and actually earn some money?

So that people like you and me can earn some money, others have to gamble... it's impossible that everyone earns money at the same time.
 
How many of you will still playing if you knew from the start that you will gonna lose your deposit 100% no matter what mob you hunt? Hunting system is DOOM right now and I tested it. I speak with some UBER players and they are agreed with me.

You must be very crazy about playing a game so expensive to hunt a few hours with NO chance of getting your money back. PS: don't mention about globals or HOF, as when I saw one will bring me up to 90%+ return.

What I wrote is black on white example of no matter what you hunt at low level you will lose 100%. PS: I'm under 45 hit/dmg.

Question is: If new players will know this, they will still make a deposit? The strategy here is they say return is 90%+ but they won't say anything about that on at 10% loses you will have an MU at maxim at 1%. And in few hours you will have rest of 9% FOREVER, the system will discharge that consumption, and you will start to recycle again from the rest of 90%, in the end, you will be at 0 peds in and the game will NEVER pay you back. To play more you have to do another deposit. Well, after you do, cause you don't know how it's work really, you will end like me, spend some money, but you don't want to quit as you already spend and you consider it's not fair. Start to learn new things and you will try to get your money back.

Honestly, if I knew this I'll never hunt in the first play and will have a totally different approach.

Hope my post will enlight others and will WARNING others!!!

I read forum to try to understand how return is working, but I coudn't understand until I tested on my own.
I'm still playing after 12 years of knowing that all money played is money outright spent on entertainment. That's 8 years nondepo followed by testing quality of play at several deposit levels (pro tip: the best deal is a surprisingly small level of pay-to-play). And guess what? Now that I understand hunting, and understand the market, I'm entering into my third year of constant slight profit.... being me, I spend that profit on toys I enjoy, for a most recent example a fun looking upper-mid damage knife I'm about to enter the skilling bonus period of.

Ok, so there's a touch of reality to ground this discussion a bit, now let's look at what a new player can expect - which is the same as what any player can expect, but the newbie isn't familiar with the game yet. Expect constant loss, with constant opportunities for some ridiculous level of funzies. With a touch of common sense, a little hands on experience, a lot of reading and some friends to clear up the unreal parts of virtual economic reality, the constant loss can pretty easily be a lot smaller than the cost of paying a subscription to some other game. And that's before your loots hit the market.

The market is a bit of a devil really. Making it work for you is complex, but the nutshell of how it works is so absurdly simple it gets overlooked: Buy low, sell high. Get the most markup you can, pay the least markup you can, and frankly the way the game is currently balanced it's safe to ignore all other factors. Welcome to trading, good luck, and please do remember that if you don't like trading, maybe gain is not this game's role in your life.
 
There's no personal attacks here, I'm just tired of repeating the same thing over and over again on this forum.

I know how to make money in EU, I've already explained it, the problem is that many people just CAN'T, only because it takes a very big initial investment. (alot of money)

And alot of people don't want to believe this (I easily understand them), because it seems completely illogical that a money game doesn't give you a chance to come out a winner.
Only a very few people, when they start EU, can imagine playing a game where 100% of the players are losing. (I'm talking about PLAYERS here, and not investors or workers)

So when someone comes here "complaining" that it's impossible not to lose a lot of money ingame, just BY PLAYING the game.
And as an answer, the same people always come and contradict this, when they are always big investors, land owners, shop owners, traders, AND often own a lot of Deeds, it tends to annoy me, and I can't help but put my foot down.

I've already explained a lot of this in my previous posts, which you can easily find if you're interested.

To sumarize, I would say that, as you confirm here, EU can only be profitable if it's a JOB.
BUT the problem is that most people, the average gamer, don't know about it.

Maybe you're right, but OP is right too, PLAYING the game by just PLAYING it will just make you loose money.
And THIS money is used to pay for big investors' benefits.

And I think that's wrong. (I hope I'm allowed to think what I'm thinking)

Again, no personal attacks.
Irony is the best way I know how to express myself.
At my age you don't change the way you are.. :dunce:

Like I said, I didn't even want to get into this discussion... I failed. :rolleyes:


PS:

Now, to understand if a behaviour is good, you have to imagine what would happen if everyone would do the same thing.

So I'll let you imagine, what would happen to EU if 100% of the players would start making money by the only means possible, i.e. Stop playing (hunt/mining etc..), buying deeds, trading, and waiting...

That show one important thing;
In order for investors to make money in EU, they NEED players to loose money.

Again I think there is something wrong here.

Thanks Cirrus, I actually like this post a lot.

I agree with what you said here: "Now, to understand if a behaviour is good, you have to imagine what would happen if everyone would do the same thing." and I've actually often thought about this (and I saw that Alukat just echoed the same sentiment just after you did.

If everyone just stopped mining and hunting, you're right, the whole system would crumble. But I think MA balances this by offering golden opportunities here and there where there is money to be made, e.g. SGA, TEN, FEN, Mayhem, Gold Rush, and others. Like yin and yang, supply and demand, I believe there is a balance between investors and players that just sort of naturally balances itself out.

Basically, wherever there is money to be made, people will go there and try to take advantage of it. How many are on CP right now hunting Aurlies? How many are hunting Calamusoids for the Cysts? This is not the best example but it is true that those are both good opportunities to come out ahead on hunting given that the mutated bone piece has, I dunno, still like 400 PED markup? (used to be 500 not that long ago). Looting a mutated bone piece in a hunting run is quite likely to turn your balance sheet from red to green real fast.

And if MA is real smart about this, I think the Land Plot development ladder can create the same type of opportunities for hunters in the near future if the buildings they make available for them are awesome and have great features in them like instances, mission NPCs and other great things never seen in game. Investors will line up to build them and that will create a boon for hunters. That's all speculation of course but I believe MA has a long term vision, what they do has an intent and I think the only reason the Land Plot development hasn't come yet is because they don't want to waste that opportunity when the game's interfaces and graphics are still badly in need of an overhaul.

I've already explained a lot of this in my previous posts, which you can easily find if you're interested.

I am interested. I will look but it would help if you could point the way as I would read that.

Legends
 
If everyone just stopped mining and hunting, you're right, the whole system would crumble. But I think MA balances this by offering golden opportunities here and there where there is money to be made, e.g. SGA, TEN, FEN, Mayhem, Gold Rush, and others. Like yin and yang, supply and demand, I believe there is a balance between investors and players that just sort of naturally balances itself out.

When I started this game 14 years ago, it was a player vs. player money game.
And that's why I loved it.

Today it's become a player versus investor game.
And this is mainly (not only) because of the Deeds.
That's why, when I saw someone again answering a "player" saying that we could make money, and explaining that it's mostly because of the CLD, I thought "here we go again", and I jumped in.

And I don't want to get into a political discussion, but just saying the sad thing is that it replicates exactly what happens in real life with capitalism.

The richest people win.
The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

Who wants to play a game that reproduces exactly the same shit that happens in real life?
Besides people who know they're on the winning side ?

I can't blame anyone directly for that.
Neither MA who created the deeds to "save" the game (they should have stopped at CLD), nor the people who can afford hundreds of them and buy them.

But it's a fact that players always lose in the long run, and investors always win.

It's just a bitter observation, concerning a game that I liked a lot, and that I think deserves a lot better.

That's probably also why I like PvP, and idea of lootable PvP in this game, cause here we come back closer to a player vs player game.
Money is still involved alot since good gear is expensive but for sure it is alot closer to something fair, that is Player Versus Player (what PvP stand for)
 
The problem with it being a player versus player money game was what would have killed this game, which is the inability for newer players start this game. You had a class of players that could leech enough peds out of the game and that had to come off the backs of newer and lower level/less efficient players.

player versus player is still player versus investor, since the players still had to invest in decent gear to have a chance...so really not much has changed :D

When I started this game 14 years ago, it was a player vs. player money game.
And that's why I loved it.

Today it's become a player versus investor game.
And this is mainly (not only) because of the Deeds.
That's why, when I saw someone again answering a "player" saying that we could make money, and explaining that it's mostly because of the CLD, I thought "here we go again", and I jumped in.

And I don't want to get into a political discussion, but just saying the sad thing is that it replicates exactly what happens in real life with capitalism.

The richest people win.
The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

Who wants to play a game that reproduces exactly the same shit that happens in real life?
Besides people who know they're on the winning side ?

I can't blame anyone directly for that.
Neither MA who created the deeds to "save" the game (they should have stopped at CLD), nor the people who can afford hundreds of them and buy them.

But it's a fact that players always lose in the long run, and investors always win.

It's just a bitter observation, concerning a game that I liked a lot, and that I think deserves a lot better.

That's probably also why I like PvP, and idea of lootable PvP in this game, cause here we come back closer to a player vs player game.
Money is still involved alot since good gear is expensive but for sure it is alot closer to something fair, that is Player Versus Player (what PvP stand for)
 
its a rude awakening to come to this game thinking you can make money in this game. because the game is not what you think it is. even after playing for 100s of hours. for instance if you get a store to sell your stuff its more like a bulletin board than a store. the ah is not like any auctionhouse in any other game. the weapons and ammo don't make a lick of sense until you play for a long while. the fact that evil people prey on nubees ignorance and this activity facilitated by the vendor is also not ordinary. at all. not to mention the fookin pirates.

then once you do get the game down it requires a mental juggling that messes with you enjoyment of other games which also pees me off. i hate the game slightly more than i love it...

what i love about it is the socmates and the actual trust you build dealing with real people almost face to face. the friends i've made over the years and memories of adventures and RL stories are priceless.

you CAN make money in this game but not the way you could in the real world or in any other game. you simply got to LOWER your expectations and play responsibly with your real money. take the time to learn the game by finding a mentor and joining a society. keep your eyes peeled for crooks and thieves and corrupt vendors and pirates and social engineers and hackers...jesus fook i hate this bs lol...see you in game
 
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