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Thread: Expectation

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    Yes you do.. alot.

    So your account is now worth $20K more than you invested, but you're saying it's not profit because you haven't taken the money out of the game yet ?
    And you're doing all this for the good of the game and the community, right ?

    Do you realize no one's gonna believe that ?
    It's so ridiculous that it doesn't even require a contradiction...

    Anyway you're now justifying making money in entropia when it wasn't directly the point.
    But if you feel the need to justify yourself maybe deep down you know something's wrong...

    Anyway, since you're doing it for the good of the game and the players, maybe we should all thank you ?
    I should have stuck to my first comment then...
    Yeah... lol, cause that's exactly what I was trying to say.

    wow...


    If most people think like you do, I should really re-think my whole reason for doing what am doing, cause all the hard work and hours I've been putting in is really a total waste.... I'm just coming now to a very very sad realization I'm afraid...
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 00:14.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    Yeah... lol, cause that's exactly what I was trying to say.

    wow...
    What ?..

    Indeed I don't understand what you're trying to say.
    But why don't you say it, instead of just trying ?

    Well it's obvious that you're completely out of serious arguments, so let's stop here.
    And I'll leave you the last word since I'm kind.
    Or a last picture ? I know it's easier for some people..

  3. #43
    Prowler Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    What ?..

    Indeed I don't understand what you're trying to say.
    But why don't you say it, instead of just trying ?

    Well it's obvious that you're completely out of serious arguments, so let's stop here.
    And I'll leave you the last word since I'm kind.
    Or a last picture ? I know it's easier for some people..
    Your crusade or whatever you're on, is simply one of seeking to be 'right'. It doesn't really matter what I say. Your being 'right; is dependent upon my being wrong since I represent the opposing view, so no matter what I say, it will be wrong as far as you're concerned, or it will have to somehow be twisted and used to reinforce your side.

    I've stated many times this game was built on the backs of the 'investors', as you call them (I would use a different term, perhaps 'early adopters', I think that would be more accurate, but the majority of these 'early adopters' deposited large sums with a specific intent to invest into this new platform, I agree on that, but how else would you describe those guys who made large deposits early on? I think 'early adopters' is very fitting).

    But, in your many replies, you won't touch that arguement with a ten foot pole, it's quicksand as far as you're concerned, you'll just dig yourself a whole you can't get out of.

    So, you cherry pick some of the things I say (thanks for making it easy for everyone btw and highlighting those cherries in red for us dumb folks ), and you use what I say against me.

    Alright, cool. Keep beating down on the guy who is spending 12-16 hours online everyday trying to help folks, looking for those hard to find items people want, doing and logging hunts and sharing results here on this forum to try to be of assistance (the more data points you have, the clearer the picture will be)... That's who you should beat on, that guy.

    Keep beating on the guy who put his money where his mouth is in 2011 and wired over 11k usd of his own money to a foreign company in a foreign country not knowing what was going to happen to that money. The guy who stepped up to the plate and said:"I believe in this Entropia thing! I trust these guys!!! You should too!!!"

    That's the guy you should beat on, he's the one who got all that money you lost hunting, he's the one! Beat on that guy!

    Pffff... You've got the wrong target dude, you are assigning blame in the wrong place, and I've told you several times in my previous posts why you are wrong, but you keep making this personal and are determined to make me look like I'm just a profiteer and am in it all for myself, when clearly, if that was the case, I would not be here doing what am doing 12-16 hours/day for 12 PEC profit, I'd be selling on Amazon or ebay or just go get a minimum wage job if I was really hurting that badly for cash...

    No, clearly, this crusade you're on, it's borne out of some resentment you harbor for the money you've lost hunting, pure and simple. But you have the wrong target my friend, I'm sorry to say.

    Please, let's leave it at these peaceful terms.

    Best of luck to you,

    Legends
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    You've got the wrong target dude
    Sorry I said I'm letting you have the last word, but I just have to say, that's a nice speech.
    But unfortunately it's off topic.

    You might want to reread, not my posts, because I don't think you like them, but at least the very first post of this thread, to remind you what we were talking about here...

    I don't know what crusade you're talking about, but you sure want to be the victim.

    I'm sorry to say I don't care about you personally and the $20,000 profit you made.
    Honestly, good for you.

    I'm talking mainly about the Deeds system in general, and at no time did I mention any particular Deeds owner.

    I'm willing to discuss factual matters.
    But I'm not at all interested in ego battles.

    I was only answering what you're saying.
    And apparently you like to talk about yourself.
    It's a subject that you seem to enjoy, so ok, I'm just answering based on what you talk about. (you)

    But I've said 2 or 3 times that it's nothing personal, and that I can't even blame anyone in particular, neither MA nor the Deeds owners, so I don't know what more I can say...

    Despite that, you feel personally attacked, and you feel the need to justify yourself over and over again.
    You might want to ask yourself why.

  5. #45
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    You were the one who started attacking me personally by facetiously commenting on my altruism, so the whole thing started as a personal attack. I never made any attacks toward your person until then.

    These were the points that I brought up throughout the discussion:

    1. the 'investors' are the ones who brought the money that was used to build the game to begin with, without them, it would not have been able to grow like it has. Speculation has always been a big part of the tradition and the lore of Entropia, right from the beginning. It's part of the excitement and the adventure and it is imho the aspect of it that has made it this successful thus far. Without the speculators (investors), there's no FOMA, no Monria, Arkadia, RT, no Cyrene, none of that.

    2. there always was a silent rake of either 2.5% or 3% on Eudoria (not sure which it is), the only difference now is that 50% of those proceeds is now split among the CLD owners, but it's the same rake as before, nothing changed. What MindArk did there was just raise funds by selling 50% of Calypso (via the 60,000 CLDs) to further expand the game.

    3. 'investors' (many of them, not all) create content in this game and in doing so, add value in. Neverdie didn't just sit at home and wait for the money to flow, he streamed music on the Asteroid, created tons of events, lots of fun was had by more then will ever admit here. Land owners create events which are fun and add value to the game, like you said earlier.

    4. the 'investors' do not always win like you said. The value of Deeds go up and down just like anything else in life. I bought hundreds of AUDs which I ended up selling at a loss. I bought pills and strongboxes that I ended up selling at a loss because it took too long to sell. It can be treacherous investing in Entropia at times. Corwin a couple years back had bought a land area and worked really hard to create interesting events and promote it, he had a weekly event going and a monthly event. He managed to attract a decent number of participants for his first monthly event, then right in the middle of it, the servers bugged out on him and the mobs wouldn't re-spawn. He kept his word and paid out the prize he had promised but the whole thing left a bad taste in his mouth and he ended giving up and selling the land. It's not all rosy and perfect on this side, this isn't a case of the grass is greener, not at all.

    5. the 'investors' bring large sums of money into the game and some of it does end up getting re-distributed to the 'players'. I know many land owners and shop owners who actively hunt, mine and generally give back in many ways, like Ant (monria owner), Spacejanitor (land owner), Queenb (RT instance and shop owner), Ravenjade (RT instance & shop network owner), morey (fund investor, mall manager), Drakil (shop owner), Buzz Lightyear (big investor & shop network owner), Zip (twin peaks mall & multiple land owner), soul (shop & mothership owner), MsPudding (multiple land owner) and many others... So it's not all 'take-take-take' as you seem to cynically assume it is. All these guys have lots of globals in 2020 already, as verified on Entropia Life. They are all contributing to the same loot pool you are.

    You didn't really address many of these, your posts were mostly aimed at implying things about my true intentions, cherry picking the data to try to paint the picture that you want people to perceive.

    Now... I did re-read the whole thing from start to finish and I can see more clearly now that it is more specifically the Deed system that you are taking aim at. Fine, I may not have been totally clear on that the whole time... It seemed to me that you were beating the drum against all 'investors' in general since you kept referring to 'investors' vs 'players', and the fact that 'investors' always win, while 'players' always lose. I took that literally and in my mind I understood that you were referring to those that did any one of those things that a person can do in the game that could qualify as an 'investment'.

    So, points #1, #2, #4 and #5 would be more relevant in this case. #3, probably not so much. Though it's impossible to confirm that the majority of Deed holders do not play at all, this is an assumption you make. I myself think this to be an erroneous assumption, but as I said, it's impossible to prove cause we don't know who all the Deed holders are. However a quick survey of the people I've named in number #5 above undoubtedly would show that these types of investors also do ordinarily hold on to a variety of Deeds at any given time.

    I will maintain my point that this isn't the right target. MA wanted to raise money, they sold shares of Calypso, I don't see anything wrong with that. This $6M usd was used to make the game better for everyone, at no additional cost to the 'players'.

    Legends
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 07:05.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    You were the one who started attacking me personally by facetiously commenting on my altruism, so the whole thing started as a personal attack. I never made any attacks toward your person until then.
    Actually this is not true.
    Here's my very first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    On the contrary, this IS exactly the point.

    But I'm not even gonna start getting into this discussion AGAIN...

    Sorry, don't pay attention to what I'm saying, I was just passing by..
    Which you replied to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    Keyword here is 'Most', which implies 'not all'. But you don't read so I'm not gonna bother. I'm just pointing this out for other people's benefit.

    Lots of the profit came from other sources, I'd say the CLDs only represents about 50% of that profit, rest came from elsewhere...
    What could easily be interpreted as the FIRST personal attack.
    which is why I answered:

    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    You're so altruistic... It's a beautiful thing to see.
    I'll probably answer the other points, but later since I don't have anymore time now.

  7. #47
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    Popcorn for everyone get it while its flaming hot!


  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TACUTTING View Post
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    There is nothing to hinder a player to buy some shares in a planet and become an investor. And have some peds back from his play / spending . so the poor /rich player debate is just stupid



    Players here are free to do whatever they want


    BTW support MA , depo
    dont expect every klick to be profit
    And besides we have the cp deeds now.. 18 peds or so to get a deed.. Sweaters can have deeds. Make your fortune from time (if you have it).

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    I think fighting other people's bank accounts with your bank account is exactly what you (and all deeds owners) are doing.

    To me the Deeds are the same as PvP, but done in a sneaky, underhanded way.
    What an utter rubbish!!

    Without the deed holders entropia would have gone bankrupt!!
    There would be no more PVP at all!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by wizz View Post
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    What an utter rubbish!!

    Without the deed holders entropia would have gone bankrupt!!
    There would be no more PVP at all!
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    It may seem contradictory, but it's quite possible that something that saved the game might end up killing it.
    I hope I'm wrong.
    Not everything is black or white, things are often complex and full of nuances.
    If it's too complicated for you to understand, it's not worth the headache.

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