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Thread: Expectation

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    Keyword here is 'Most', which implies 'not all'. But you don't read so I'm not gonna bother. I'm just pointing this out for other people's benefit.

    Lots of the profit came from other sources, I'd say the CLDs only represents about 50% of that profit, rest came from elsewhere...
    You're so altruistic... It's a beautiful thing to see.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    You're so altruistic... It's a beautiful thing to see.
    Not sure why you feel the need to be facetious like that towards me, I'm just taking part in a forum discussion and providing and sharing my own personal experiences and data, which is rare insight not often freely given.

    I work really hard in Entropia, harder right now than anyone could even imagine, spending every waking moment online. All that you imply really in this facetious comment of yours above, is that it's all about self, which it is not, far from it. I do a TON of research about stuff and share most of what I learn with others, in this forum and in the game, chatting directly with dozens of players everyday. Anyone that starts up a chat with me and asks me anything about the game, I will share with them what I know and give them honest answers.

    I am a person of goodwill, who tries to do good, but at the same time, I work hard, and I'm of the opinion that the world (real world and virtual alike), is based on a principle of exchange, i.e. if you provide something of value to someone, that someone should give or provide something of comparable value back. Should I spend every waking moment online AND give everyone all my money as well? Maybe that's what you think I should do...

    Find another individual to target with your hurtful remarks, I really don't deserve that sort of treatment. And if you honestly feel that I do, at least be man enough to state the exact reasons why you seem to resent me or my post instead of hiding behind this sort of disingenuous reply... It really helps no one and contributes nothing to the discussion.

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    Not sure why you feel the need to be facetious like that towards me...
    There's no personal attacks here, I'm just tired of repeating the same thing over and over again on this forum.

    I know how to make money in EU, I've already explained it, the problem is that many people just CAN'T, only because it takes a very big initial investment. (alot of money)

    And alot of people don't want to believe this (I easily understand them), because it seems completely illogical that a money game doesn't give you a chance to come out a winner.
    Only a very few people, when they start EU, can imagine playing a game where 100% of the players are losing. (I'm talking about PLAYERS here, and not investors or workers)

    So when someone comes here "complaining" that it's impossible not to lose a lot of money ingame, just BY PLAYING the game.
    And as an answer, the same people always come and contradict this, when they are always big investors, land owners, shop owners, traders, AND often own a lot of Deeds, it tends to annoy me, and I can't help but put my foot down.

    I've already explained a lot of this in my previous posts, which you can easily find if you're interested.

    To sumarize, I would say that, as you confirm here, EU can only be profitable if it's a JOB.
    BUT the problem is that most people, the average gamer, don't know about it.

    Maybe you're right, but OP is right too, PLAYING the game by just PLAYING it will just make you loose money.
    And THIS money is used to pay for big investors' benefits.

    And I think that's wrong. (I hope I'm allowed to think what I'm thinking)

    Again, no personal attacks.
    Irony is the best way I know how to express myself.
    At my age you don't change the way you are..

    Like I said, I didn't even want to get into this discussion... I failed.


    PS:

    Now, to understand if a behaviour is good, you have to imagine what would happen if everyone would do the same thing.

    So I'll let you imagine, what would happen to EU if 100% of the players would start making money by the only means possible, i.e. Stop playing (hunt/mining etc..), buying deeds, trading, and waiting...

    That show one important thing;
    In order for investors to make money in EU, they NEED players to loose money.

    Again I think there is something wrong here.
    Last edited by ~ Cirrus ~; 02-15-2020 at 22:31.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    - Do you want to gamble?
    - Or do you want to work hard and actually earn some money?
    So that people like you and me can earn some money, others have to gamble... it's impossible that everyone earns money at the same time.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaron View Post
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    How many of you will still playing if you knew from the start that you will gonna lose your deposit 100% no matter what mob you hunt? Hunting system is DOOM right now and I tested it. I speak with some UBER players and they are agreed with me.

    You must be very crazy about playing a game so expensive to hunt a few hours with NO chance of getting your money back. PS: don't mention about globals or HOF, as when I saw one will bring me up to 90%+ return.

    What I wrote is black on white example of no matter what you hunt at low level you will lose 100%. PS: I'm under 45 hit/dmg.

    Question is: If new players will know this, they will still make a deposit? The strategy here is they say return is 90%+ but they won't say anything about that on at 10% loses you will have an MU at maxim at 1%. And in few hours you will have rest of 9% FOREVER, the system will discharge that consumption, and you will start to recycle again from the rest of 90%, in the end, you will be at 0 peds in and the game will NEVER pay you back. To play more you have to do another deposit. Well, after you do, cause you don't know how it's work really, you will end like me, spend some money, but you don't want to quit as you already spend and you consider it's not fair. Start to learn new things and you will try to get your money back.

    Honestly, if I knew this I'll never hunt in the first play and will have a totally different approach.

    Hope my post will enlight others and will WARNING others!!!

    I read forum to try to understand how return is working, but I coudn't understand until I tested on my own.
    I'm still playing after 12 years of knowing that all money played is money outright spent on entertainment. That's 8 years nondepo followed by testing quality of play at several deposit levels (pro tip: the best deal is a surprisingly small level of pay-to-play). And guess what? Now that I understand hunting, and understand the market, I'm entering into my third year of constant slight profit.... being me, I spend that profit on toys I enjoy, for a most recent example a fun looking upper-mid damage knife I'm about to enter the skilling bonus period of.

    Ok, so there's a touch of reality to ground this discussion a bit, now let's look at what a new player can expect - which is the same as what any player can expect, but the newbie isn't familiar with the game yet. Expect constant loss, with constant opportunities for some ridiculous level of funzies. With a touch of common sense, a little hands on experience, a lot of reading and some friends to clear up the unreal parts of virtual economic reality, the constant loss can pretty easily be a lot smaller than the cost of paying a subscription to some other game. And that's before your loots hit the market.

    The market is a bit of a devil really. Making it work for you is complex, but the nutshell of how it works is so absurdly simple it gets overlooked: Buy low, sell high. Get the most markup you can, pay the least markup you can, and frankly the way the game is currently balanced it's safe to ignore all other factors. Welcome to trading, good luck, and please do remember that if you don't like trading, maybe gain is not this game's role in your life.
    .... just one man's opinion

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's no personal attacks here, I'm just tired of repeating the same thing over and over again on this forum.

    I know how to make money in EU, I've already explained it, the problem is that many people just CAN'T, only because it takes a very big initial investment. (alot of money)

    And alot of people don't want to believe this (I easily understand them), because it seems completely illogical that a money game doesn't give you a chance to come out a winner.
    Only a very few people, when they start EU, can imagine playing a game where 100% of the players are losing. (I'm talking about PLAYERS here, and not investors or workers)

    So when someone comes here "complaining" that it's impossible not to lose a lot of money ingame, just BY PLAYING the game.
    And as an answer, the same people always come and contradict this, when they are always big investors, land owners, shop owners, traders, AND often own a lot of Deeds, it tends to annoy me, and I can't help but put my foot down.

    I've already explained a lot of this in my previous posts, which you can easily find if you're interested.

    To sumarize, I would say that, as you confirm here, EU can only be profitable if it's a JOB.
    BUT the problem is that most people, the average gamer, don't know about it.

    Maybe you're right, but OP is right too, PLAYING the game by just PLAYING it will just make you loose money.
    And THIS money is used to pay for big investors' benefits.

    And I think that's wrong. (I hope I'm allowed to think what I'm thinking)

    Again, no personal attacks.
    Irony is the best way I know how to express myself.
    At my age you don't change the way you are..

    Like I said, I didn't even want to get into this discussion... I failed.


    PS:

    Now, to understand if a behaviour is good, you have to imagine what would happen if everyone would do the same thing.

    So I'll let you imagine, what would happen to EU if 100% of the players would start making money by the only means possible, i.e. Stop playing (hunt/mining etc..), buying deeds, trading, and waiting...

    That show one important thing;
    In order for investors to make money in EU, they NEED players to loose money.

    Again I think there is something wrong here.
    Thanks Cirrus, I actually like this post a lot.

    I agree with what you said here: "Now, to understand if a behaviour is good, you have to imagine what would happen if everyone would do the same thing." and I've actually often thought about this (and I saw that Alukat just echoed the same sentiment just after you did.

    If everyone just stopped mining and hunting, you're right, the whole system would crumble. But I think MA balances this by offering golden opportunities here and there where there is money to be made, e.g. SGA, TEN, FEN, Mayhem, Gold Rush, and others. Like yin and yang, supply and demand, I believe there is a balance between investors and players that just sort of naturally balances itself out.

    Basically, wherever there is money to be made, people will go there and try to take advantage of it. How many are on CP right now hunting Aurlies? How many are hunting Calamusoids for the Cysts? This is not the best example but it is true that those are both good opportunities to come out ahead on hunting given that the mutated bone piece has, I dunno, still like 400 PED markup? (used to be 500 not that long ago). Looting a mutated bone piece in a hunting run is quite likely to turn your balance sheet from red to green real fast.

    And if MA is real smart about this, I think the Land Plot development ladder can create the same type of opportunities for hunters in the near future if the buildings they make available for them are awesome and have great features in them like instances, mission NPCs and other great things never seen in game. Investors will line up to build them and that will create a boon for hunters. That's all speculation of course but I believe MA has a long term vision, what they do has an intent and I think the only reason the Land Plot development hasn't come yet is because they don't want to waste that opportunity when the game's interfaces and graphics are still badly in need of an overhaul.

    I've already explained a lot of this in my previous posts, which you can easily find if you're interested.
    I am interested. I will look but it would help if you could point the way as I would read that.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    If everyone just stopped mining and hunting, you're right, the whole system would crumble. But I think MA balances this by offering golden opportunities here and there where there is money to be made, e.g. SGA, TEN, FEN, Mayhem, Gold Rush, and others. Like yin and yang, supply and demand, I believe there is a balance between investors and players that just sort of naturally balances itself out.
    When I started this game 14 years ago, it was a player vs. player money game.
    And that's why I loved it.

    Today it's become a player versus investor game.
    And this is mainly (not only) because of the Deeds.
    That's why, when I saw someone again answering a "player" saying that we could make money, and explaining that it's mostly because of the CLD, I thought "here we go again", and I jumped in.

    And I don't want to get into a political discussion, but just saying the sad thing is that it replicates exactly what happens in real life with capitalism.

    The richest people win.
    The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

    Who wants to play a game that reproduces exactly the same shit that happens in real life?
    Besides people who know they're on the winning side ?

    I can't blame anyone directly for that.
    Neither MA who created the deeds to "save" the game (they should have stopped at CLD), nor the people who can afford hundreds of them and buy them.

    But it's a fact that players always lose in the long run, and investors always win.

    It's just a bitter observation, concerning a game that I liked a lot, and that I think deserves a lot better.

    That's probably also why I like PvP, and idea of lootable PvP in this game, cause here we come back closer to a player vs player game.
    Money is still involved alot since good gear is expensive but for sure it is alot closer to something fair, that is Player Versus Player (what PvP stand for)

  8. #28
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    The problem with it being a player versus player money game was what would have killed this game, which is the inability for newer players start this game. You had a class of players that could leech enough peds out of the game and that had to come off the backs of newer and lower level/less efficient players.

    player versus player is still player versus investor, since the players still had to invest in decent gear to have a chance...so really not much has changed

    Quote Originally Posted by ~ Cirrus ~ View Post
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    When I started this game 14 years ago, it was a player vs. player money game.
    And that's why I loved it.

    Today it's become a player versus investor game.
    And this is mainly (not only) because of the Deeds.
    That's why, when I saw someone again answering a "player" saying that we could make money, and explaining that it's mostly because of the CLD, I thought "here we go again", and I jumped in.

    And I don't want to get into a political discussion, but just saying the sad thing is that it replicates exactly what happens in real life with capitalism.

    The richest people win.
    The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

    Who wants to play a game that reproduces exactly the same shit that happens in real life?
    Besides people who know they're on the winning side ?

    I can't blame anyone directly for that.
    Neither MA who created the deeds to "save" the game (they should have stopped at CLD), nor the people who can afford hundreds of them and buy them.

    But it's a fact that players always lose in the long run, and investors always win.

    It's just a bitter observation, concerning a game that I liked a lot, and that I think deserves a lot better.

    That's probably also why I like PvP, and idea of lootable PvP in this game, cause here we come back closer to a player vs player game.
    Money is still involved alot since good gear is expensive but for sure it is alot closer to something fair, that is Player Versus Player (what PvP stand for)
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  9. #29
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    its a rude awakening to come to this game thinking you can make money in this game. because the game is not what you think it is. even after playing for 100s of hours. for instance if you get a store to sell your stuff its more like a bulletin board than a store. the ah is not like any auctionhouse in any other game. the weapons and ammo don't make a lick of sense until you play for a long while. the fact that evil people prey on nubees ignorance and this activity facilitated by the vendor is also not ordinary. at all. not to mention the fookin pirates.

    then once you do get the game down it requires a mental juggling that messes with you enjoyment of other games which also pees me off. i hate the game slightly more than i love it...

    what i love about it is the socmates and the actual trust you build dealing with real people almost face to face. the friends i've made over the years and memories of adventures and RL stories are priceless.

    you CAN make money in this game but not the way you could in the real world or in any other game. you simply got to LOWER your expectations and play responsibly with your real money. take the time to learn the game by finding a mentor and joining a society. keep your eyes peeled for crooks and thieves and corrupt vendors and pirates and social engineers and hackers...jesus fook i hate this bs lol...see you in game
    Last edited by Aloisius; 02-16-2020 at 02:58.

  10. #30
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    yep, this game loot is shit

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