The Curious Case of Redulite

Do you believe MA made a mistake or was it intentional

  • The cap removal was intentional but volume was not

    Votes: 12 17.6%
  • It was a completely intentional move

    Votes: 17 25.0%
  • It was a mistake and not intentional

    Votes: 17 25.0%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 22 32.4%

  • Total voters
    68

Divinity

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Divinity Deth Undefined
So, I know there is already a thread debating the topic and yet i chose to make a new one as the objective and direction of what i have in mind is different from the prevailing one.

We all have our opinions and perspectives , so I will share my own from what I have understood so far.

Before the flood the waves for redulite were shorter and the claim sizes were capped. As has been claimed by some , I can refute the depth part as it was previously also dropping at much lower depths and available at 800 avg depth as well. Yes, less common but undeniably there to a good extent.

Lets talk about the motivation @ MA as to why this was done. I thing I do believe for a fact ( Belief being the keyword there) is that it was not a mistake in terms of wanting to increase the supply of redulite. That i believe was the goal as it was severely effecting crafting of armatrix guns among other things with a 550+ markup on redulite.

This is where the grey area starts however. If that is what they truly wanted then they either

1. Don't understand how there own loot algorithm works, quite possibly because the guy who designed is long gone and the new ones are experimenting with value changes which they do not properly understand

2. They don't understand how people in EU are and as such what happened is < 50 people mined the whole thing in < 24 hrs and between resellers ( some who have mined a lot already and would benefit from keeping markup high) and crafters , the markup will go back upto 400% in no time. This is substantiated by the fact that the cap is back on redulite as anyone who mines for redulite will know ( If i am wrong and someone has another experience, please feel free to let me know).

Now my personal opinion on the episode which is as unbiased as i can be :

I mined quite a bit of it myself and I have them in storage like 90% of the rest of miners knowing that since the cap is back on will wait for redulite to move to 400+ before offloading my stack. However, this makes no sense to me from MA perspective as this by no means solves the reason with which this event took place. Which leads a conclusion that it was a mistake to begin with. Hence why i call it a curious case.

Suggestion To MA at my own peril : If this was a mistake, well leave it be and a few of us just made a lot of peds out of some opportunistic timing. However, if this was not a mistake and the goal was to reduce redulite markup, then the only move you have now is to remove the cap again and keep the wave window/depth contained. That will prevent those holding onto huge stacks ( including myself) to at some point do the inevitable and bring the markup to what MA wants it to be. If you do a repeat of the former wave, the same will happen and a few will again stack up and what you end up is a similar situation. The idea is enough redulite needs to be mined on a regular basis ( not just a one time thingie) for redulite markup to be contained.

MA made a move : Removed Cap. I don't think the flood was intentional and the inevitable happened. Players made a move by either buying up all the cheap ores or keeping it with them and not selling. I am keen to see what MA's next move will be.

Cheers,

Divinity

(PS : I am not drunk or under influence and am fully aware of the implication this post has on my own designs)
 
Happy accidents happen a lot in this game. Regardless of if it was on accident or not, it might guide Mindark to do something on purpose in the future...

Maybe this is a test to see if all caps should be removed for good?
 
I find it very amusing that the survey comes from you :)

exactly when this "mistake" happened again in the afternoon, did you find so much at once? : D

https://imgur.com/N6wB7Jz

was a time window of 15 minutes

hit well right? :D
 
The first option. It's the FEN whip crafting "event" all over again, extra zeros in wrong places.
 

Things that make you go hmmmm..... :scratch:
 
Why this poll ?
Are you thinking of putting the Redulite back in the ground ? ;)

Anyone with any sense knows it wasn't intentional.

But most don't give a damn, so they're not going to bother voting.

However, anyone who has benefited in any way, shape or form, will vote #2 or #4 of course. :rolleyes:

The best way to get an answer would be to ask MA, right ? :)
 
I'm not going to try to guess if it was a mistake or intentional. But they need to remove all caps as it just leads to hoarding and market manipulation for stuff that has demand. They should be able to just set chances of finding items to somewhat control supply.

btw MA if you read this Opal markup is still ridiculous. Entropia 2.99 is a real thing.
 
I seriously hope that it was a mistake, as if this was intentional that would bring terrible implications to the market that MA is willing to forcibly manipulate the markup of items with violent measures, and that would give people second thoughts before purchasing high markup items. This Redulite incident is not really that bad since very few people would have thousands of PEDs of Redulite sitting in their storage, so for most people they only just missed an opportunity to make a few quick thousands of PEDs by not playing at the right time. Imagine if this happens to other stuffs, like sudden influx of 10K PED Dunkel (kills all your F-106/Dante MU), or rings. People aren't going to be that happy when they wake up to find out that they not only missed the window for ares ring rain, and the ones that own also halved in value because MA just decided to drop 300 rings overnight.
 
I'm not going to try to guess if it was a mistake or intentional. But they need to remove all caps as it just leads to hoarding and market manipulation for stuff that has demand. They should be able to just set chances of finding items to somewhat control supply.

btw MA if you read this Opal markup is still ridiculous. Entropia 2.99 is a real thing.

This about sums it up. Was it intentional? Obviously yes - at least on some level. When you program something it doesn't just magically change unless you change it.

However, I'm sure they didn't consider that 95% of the released Redulite would be found in such a short time and just end up in the hands of about 10 people that are more than likely going to hoard it until they can sell for an unreasonable markup. (And of course a flawed scarcity system makes this possible).

Clearly MA's attempt to correct the markup of Redulite failed due to their ignorance of the 10th rule of acquisition: Greed is eternal.
 
It depends on MA's goal here.
1. If their plan was to award high level players and those who deposit, then it's done very well.
- Those who had peds, had skills, had gear and are online at that particular time can mine a crap tonne of redu and make thousands to tens of thousands of ped in profit from one day of mining. Which is nice to see the supports for high lv game play.

2. If their plan was to make crafting more accessible to players by dropping mu of what I call "Bottle neck ores". Then this was done rather poorly. The ones who were on the ball with this redu wave knows if the wave stops it's just a matter hording and unloading when MU is high. We do it ALL THE TIME.... it's how profit mining works.
- The only solution to make resources more accessible is to increase the drop rate of a resource permanently. Otherwise, there is no reason to sell the massive stack of redu we currently have and drop mu.


*I have a nice stack of redu as well from the wave. Currently it makes no sense for me to sell, so am hording as with everyone else.



** Edit. Leaving things as is will make Redu like the Insulin market in USA. Cheap to make, but very expensive product for end user. Those few with majority supply determines price. All other "lowballers" will simply get bought out.
 
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This about sums it up. Was it intentional? Obviously yes - at least on some level. When you program something it doesn't just magically change unless you change it.

However, I'm sure they didn't consider that 95% of the released Redulite would be found in such a short time and just end up in the hands of about 10 people that are more than likely going to hoard it until they can sell for an unreasonable markup. (And of course a flawed scarcity system makes this possible).

Clearly MA's attempt to correct the markup of Redulite failed due to their ignorance of the 10th rule of acquisition: Greed is eternal.
Easy solution: drop more until people stop hoarding - and I hope thats exactly what MA is and will be doing.
 
:twocents:

Every company out there who depends on people depositing money is gonna hold on to those money like Scrooge.
MA does not benefit from high MU stuff and alot of access to it. That will make people withdraw money from game as they can " win" on the situation. That is why I think it was a mistake with all that Redulite pushed out on market just as well as the mounstrous claim of Rugaritz years ago also was a mistake.
MA benefits from low MU as that makes people cycle their peds over and over again and its the same for casinos. A big hit every now and then is ok but if people find a way to " win " over and over again the Casino is gonna try and stop it.
Why and what happened with Redulite recently I dont know but im sure the turnout was a mistake. No way MA had in their minds to fill the pockets of a few miners like it happened beacuse it will for sure result in a few very big withdrawals of money from the game.

Strakkan
 
It has always been said observation is one of the most important skills in entropia, I just never realised before that I needed to observe which threads MA employees are reading on the forum. :laugh:
He just popped into this thread too. :cool:


I addressed this in the other thread, but I will put it here as well to make sure it is seen properly:

Just to clarify something here; my job at MindArk is that of community manager/liason. I do not have any interaction with (or influence on) the loot systems or any other ingame systems.

However, my job does include reading and moderating the forum, which means that there is a high chance that I will have read any given thread at some point Especially if there are many new posts in it.
 
Just to clarify something here; my job at MindArk is that of community manager/liason. I do not have any interaction with (or influence on) the loot systems or any other ingame systems.

However, my job does include reading and moderating the forum, which means that there is a high chance that I will have read any given thread at some point Especially if there are many new posts in it.

But isn't part of being the community manager/liaison reporting to Mindark data of interest in regards to community input? I mean isn't the definition of liaison "An instance or a means of communication between different groups or units of an organization".

While you may not directly affect things like the loot/in game systems, if you report back saying "lots of people in the community are concerned about excess Redulite dropping" wouldn't that have a indirect impact of forcing the team member responsible for those systems to take a closer look at it and potentially make changes?

I mean as a more extreme example: if all of a sudden someone on the forum posted some weird issue like "only mining towers are dropping! Every probe is resulting in a mining tower". Wouldn't you report this to others at Mindark? And as such wouldn't they then look into fixing that issue if it was in fact deemed to be an issue that needed to be fixed?
 
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:twocents:


MA does not benefit from high MU stuff and alot of access to it. That will make people withdraw money from game as they can " win" on the situation. That is why I think it was a mistake with all that Redulite pushed out on market just as well as the mounstrous claim of Rugaritz years ago also was a mistake.
MA benefits from low MU as that makes people cycle their peds over and over again and its the same for casinos. A big hit every now and then is ok but if people find a way to " win " over and over again the Casino is gonna try and stop it.
Strakkan

We are supposed to "win" though. If people don't win and withdraw then it isn't a game. When people win or withdraw money that is fantastic for the game. The door always has to swing both ways and I think we should look at winners or people that withdraw as something that is healthy for any stable economy. If more people win then more players will join and MA makes money that way. You always get more flies with honey.
 
But isn't part of being the community manager/liaison reporting to Mindark data of interest in regards to community input?

Yes, that is also part of my job. If there are any issues (or suggestions and other feedback) that comes up on the forum, I make sure to forward it to the dev team for proper review and consideration.

What I am addressing here is the idea that seems to exist that I would be able to see something on the forum and sponteanously act on it by going into a room and pressing some buttons to change ingame systems. All intended changes seen in the game have been carefully considered before being implemented, and can not be predicted by which threads I have happened to read.
 
A little bit of hoarding of your own personal finds is totally fine and that is not the issue that MA is targeting. When hoarding is done on a massive scale, where you're also buying up everyone else's finds on the auction with a specific intent to control the entire supply, then it just becomes market manipulation.

The problem: certain individuals in Entropia have realized long ago that there is a certain mechanic in the game that can be used which will allow them to essentially control the entire supply for a given resource. Once that supply is under their control, they can sell this resource at whatever markup they want to because they essentially have no one that is capable of under-cutting them since they own the entire supply.

Mechanic being abused: that mechanic being the capacity limit for specific resources in the game, i.e. how much of a particular resource is allowed to 'exist' in the game at any given time. What this means is that at some point, no more can be found until some of it is actually used up, either through crafting or tiering, or just TT'ed.

I don't think that this sort of market manipulation is ok, I don't think it is fun or adds anything of value to the game, I think it's a scourge, a drain, an exploit really. It frustrates many players who need these resources for crafting or tiering, especially when you understand what is truly going on, and MindArk should put an end to it.

I'm of the opinion that MindArk knows full well what is going on with Redulite and Opals, and I think that the ONLY thing we can be sure of with regards to all this Redulite dropping recently is that there is a will on the part of MindArk to try and do something about it now.

I don't think that removing the cap is going to be the one and only response, I think it's just a first step so that they can fully understand what to expect when caps are removed. If it was the one and only response to hoarding, they would not have done it only for Redulite, it would have been done across the boards, for Opals and other resources that are currently being hoarded as well, all at once.

So I think this is just part of the experimentation that they need to do in order to arrive at what will eventually be the best long-term solution for everyone. And there is no intent to target any particular hoarder specifically, it's the exploited game mechanic which is being targeted.

So like I said in the other thread, I think MindArk has just fired the first warning shot. They can and will re-balance it because there is more to gain by doing so then to leave it alone.

For those of you that are still stockpiling Redulite, still buying it at 300% or more, you are placing a bet on MindArk stupidity and I think that is a very bad bet, I think that's a losing bet.

But we'll have to wait and see what happens

:popcorn:
 
Yes, that is also part of my job. If there are any issues (or suggestions and other feedback) that comes up on the forum, I make sure to forward it to the dev team for proper review and consideration.

What I am addressing here is the idea that seems to exist that I would be able to see something on the forum and sponteanously act on it by going into a room and pressing some buttons to change ingame systems. All intended changes seen in the game have been carefully considered before being implemented, and can not be predicted by which threads I have happened to read.

Ahhh I see.

But but... tin foil hats, conspiracies, superstitions, magical things happening! People need to believe!!! :laugh:
 
maybe unlock this material can improve the global economy? and keep it hight is just bad for 99% ppl :)
MA make great job for make the economy healthy again. it take time. maybe it's a new step in this direction.
so perhaps more attachement bp are coming at hight level too.
 
A little bit of hoarding of your own personal finds is totally fine and that is not the issue that MA is targeting. When hoarding is done on a massive scale, where you're also buying up everyone else's finds on the auction with a specific intent to control the entire supply, then it just becomes market manipulation.

The problem: certain individuals in Entropia have realized long ago that there is a certain mechanic in the game that can be used which will allow them to essentially control the entire supply for a given resource. Once that supply is under their control, they can sell this resource at whatever markup they want to because they essentially have no one that is capable of under-cutting them since they own the entire supply.

Mechanic being abused: that mechanic being the capacity limit for specific resources in the game, i.e. how much of a particular resource is allowed to 'exist' in the game at any given time. What this means is that at some point, no more can be found until some of it is actually used up, either through crafting or tiering, or just TT'ed.

I don't think that this sort of market manipulation is ok, I don't think it is fun or adds anything of value to the game, I think it's a scourge, a drain, an exploit really. It frustrates many players who need these resources for crafting or tiering, especially when you understand what is truly going on, and MindArk should put an end to it.

I'm of the opinion that MindArk knows full well what is going on with Redulite and Opals, and I think that the ONLY thing we can be sure of with regards to all this Redulite dropping recently is that there is a will on the part of MindArk to try and do something about it now.

I don't think that removing the cap is going to be the one and only response, I think it's just a first step so that they can fully understand what to expect when caps are removed. If it was the one and only response to hoarding, they would not have done it only for Redulite, it would have been done across the boards, for Opals and other resources that are currently being hoarded as well, all at once.

So I think this is just part of the experimentation that they need to do in order to arrive at what will eventually be the best long-term solution for everyone. And there is no intent to target any particular hoarder specifically, it's the exploited game mechanic which is being targeted.

So like I said in the other thread, I think MindArk has just fired the first warning shot. They can and will re-balance it because there is more to gain by doing so then to leave it alone.

For those of you that are still stockpiling Redulite, still buying it at 300% or more, you are placing a bet on MindArk stupidity and I think that is a very bad bet, I think that's a losing bet.

But we'll have to wait and see what happens

:popcorn:

I think your entire premise is wrong. I have never believed in a cap on resources. The only thing MA control is drop rate, entirely separate to how much of anything there is in the universe.

I don't believe MA removed a cap, I think MA increased the drop rate. Simple

I have never seen evidence of hoarding anything reduces drop rates. They are not linked.

IMAO

EDIT: i should clarify, i am only talking about ores and enmatters

Rgds

Ace
 
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I think your entire premise is wrong. I have never believed in a cap on resources. The only thing MA control is drop rate, entirely separate to how much of anything there is in the universe.

I don't believe MA removed a cap, I think MA increased the drop rate. Simple

I have never seen evidence of hoarding anything reduces drop rates. They are not linked.

IMAO

EDIT: i should clarify, i am only talking about ores and enmatters

Rgds

Ace

To clarify since i have also used the term "CAP" , i do mean the cap on the size of the find ( amount of resource dropped during a wave) and not a cap in terms of total resources in the game. I am with you on the fact that there is no cap on amount of resources being a limitation.

On topic of hoarding, low cap on resource drops like redulite or opal is something where hoarding works because the person hoarding can buy the resources and increase markup. Example : If 100 peds of redulite drop/hr if i start buying redulite i can easily buy 10k peds tt of it and increase markup from say 250% to 400%. Which is when i stop buying and let it stabilize at that point netting me a 50% gain.
 
To clarify since i have also used the term "CAP" , i do mean the cap on the size of the find ( amount of resource dropped during a wave) and not a cap in terms of total resources in the game. I am with you on the fact that there is no cap on amount of resources being a limitation.

On topic of hoarding, low cap on resource drops like redulite or opal is something where hoarding works because the person hoarding can buy the resources and increase markup. Example : If 100 peds of redulite drop/hr if i start buying redulite i can easily buy 10k peds tt of it and increase markup from say 250% to 400%. Which is when i stop buying and let it stabilize at that point netting me a 50% gain.

The total TT value of resources dug up from ground that " redunight" was just as normal but diffrence this night was that most of it was in form of Redulite instead of Belk, lyst, duru etc etc.
 
The total TT value of resources dug up from ground that " redunight" was just as normal but diffrence this night was that most of it was in form of Redulite instead of Belk, lyst, duru etc etc.

There was also lyst/belk/duru to be found if you did not have the appropriate depth. Removing the cap from droprate of redulite can easily lead to what happened the other day. My best guess ( and it is a guess at this point because only MA knows what really happened) would be that the cap was removed in terms of wave duration and in doing so the pent up accumulated redulite that was supposed to have dropped by now ( which could not because of the low timings earlier) dropped all at once.
 
The commonly held belief a while ago was that if hoarders had anything pretty much maxed out - mob loots or mining - then crafting with a maxed mat at a very quiet time of day and quickly returning into the 'field' would get you a lot of the stuff back in the next couple of loot waves.
Has anyone ever done a 'time of day/night' analysis to see if that claim holds water? ;)

I've experienced enough of MA to have ZERO preference on this poll, apart from that I DO care! lol
 
Some blabla history

If that helps, I can say that ever since i started to mine back in 2010+ and camped redu, I have seen all kind of changes on this ore. It was a time back in 2012+ when i was called the redu king. There was 2 main crafters back then. Auktuma and NZR. Any other crafter back then were under one of those. The MU of lvl13 were to a big degree controlled. Crafters were fighting for redu miners.

There were time where i was thinking to make a redu coat lol. When it hitted 120% and i had tons of it :ahh:
I don't mind oversupply as long as there is a goal for this and more benefit from using / clicking this ingot.
Just make sure to edit the description on redu to not stand "this rare ore is not found often" to "is found often" :)

Redu was as rare as it is today, meaning if u mine with right tool/skill now, u wil lget all from 3-6% hit rate. Fact is this hit rate NEVER changed even thru lyst wave or not. Only thing that changed is, was the remove of lyst. Lyst made thing very much interesting and that is to me a very good way to protect any ore in game from oversupply and control MU, gj on this one MA!

Changes came. Lyst were put in redu area for a while to test while redu cap was not removed, meaning u could still hit global if lucky during little gap of wave with even lvl13.

Changes again happened. It was raining back in 2012-2014 (cant' really recall, but check for Squallxx spam with lvl13 back in days). Then it calmed down.

To me this was very much expected to come. I actually was prepared that it will rain sooner or later (was thinking after summer it would thu), but it came sooner than that :D

Btw i had almost 100% redu hit with no lyst during the redumania.

My hope is that more items/upgrades/missions, BPs will use this ore since it is the "top ore" any miner can mine and should be limited as it is. Any newbeginner miner should have a goal to mine this with right and heavy tools/skills, just like for hunting. Take Mulciber; u cant ask a noob to hunt it and benefit from any special drop it give. Same should the high end ores in game be too. There have to be a focus and a goal. No goal = a dead game. I have long ago stopped mentoring ppl just because of this.


At the end i want to say that:
This HAVE happened before and WILL happen again! Mark my words.

Regards, the redu king:dunce:
 
From reading the other comments, it seems like this is more of an award for prepared high level players rather than an attempt to drop redulite MU. Which is cool to see.

MU is now in the hands of the players with majority supply. Happy profits then :)
 
I think your entire premise is wrong. I have never believed in a cap on resources. The only thing MA control is drop rate, entirely separate to how much of anything there is in the universe.

I don't believe MA removed a cap, I think MA increased the drop rate. Simple

I have never seen evidence of hoarding anything reduces drop rates. They are not linked.

IMAO

EDIT: i should clarify, i am only talking about ores and enmatters

Rgds

Ace

Good, I'm glad if there is evidence showing that resource caps are not real. I also am more of a believer in drop rates then caps, but when you are told enough times by people who should know, then you start to believe them.

All of the other arguments in my post are still valid however, since, as Divinity stated, hoarding is still a thing and still works for some individuals who are controlling the supply and thus the markup.

Legends
 
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