Captain Jack
Elite
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2010
- Posts
- 3,733
- Society
- Endgame
RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
1. Purpose: This thread was created due to the observation of obvious mutual interest of opposing factions, and ALL discussion on this thread need to be kept on topic.
2. NO flaming. If you have a bone to pick with someone individually or categorically take it somewhere else. Keep all posts on topic.
3. NO personal arguments. If you have a bone to pick with someone individually or categorically take it somewhere else. Keep all posts on topic.
4. Use "I" statements to state personal opinions, and let "them" and "they" state their own opinions.
Note; Throughout the thread I will be using "Red Team" and "Blue Team" to refer to the societies involved. For the purpose of this thread it does not matter which society was either color, what matters was the outcome and what can be learned.
February 28th 2020 the fight at Tukuta Plateau was a historic event.
Two opposing factions which have been pitted against each other for over a year had expressed mutual dissatisfaction with the use of Medi-Stims at Land Grab. Through significant diplomatic effort a mutual agreement was made, held together by a fragile strand of trust, not to use medistims at land grab, enforced on the honor system.
Before we move further into the story, allow me to share some amplifying information on why medistims are a problem in the first place. While an infinite number of arguments can be made, three points seem highly compelling and therefor shall be my focal point.
Point 1: Sportsmanship. People come to PvP with a wide range of talent, avatar skills, equipment, and bankroll. Under the current system in which medistims are allowed, bankroll is the most critical of these components. I know several very talented PKers who enjoy the competitive aspects of PvP, but for whom the enjoyment is ruined because someone with deeper pockets can defeat a more talented PKer by simply out-spending them, consuming copious amounts of medistims. I can confirm this to be the case because I am one of those deeper-pocketed players and I have personally done this, defeating specific PKers on the opposing side who I know are objectively better PKers than I am. Despite the advantage this gives me, I acknowledge it does reduce the equity and sportsmanship of the event, and many others agree.
Point 2: Efficacy of Intended Systems. To hold down the fort at Land Grab a society must have at least 1 player on the claim without interruption lasting more than 30 seconds. With the current size and capability of the two primary opposing factions participating at land grab today, and the use of Medi-stims, this can be achieved by simply trickling players in one by one even if they are all dying shortly after reaching the claim. This effectively turns the land grab into a race to hit the claim marker as soon as the MCR is destroyed, and whichever society makes the claim first ultimately wins the land grab. Any further fighting is a futile waste, and we have seen several land grabs turn out this way.
I do not believe this was the intended result when MindArk implemented medistims. This method, too, points back to point 1 in reducing the sportsmanship of the event.
Point 3: Medistim Particle Effects and Lag. The use of a medistim causes a white glow and a lingering aura of particles. When used by multiple players in a PvP environment, this causes significant lag to most players on all graphics settings which gets progressively worse as the land grab progresses. This increases overall frustration of the land grab, reduces fighting efficacy, and overall dissatisfaction with the game.
So what happened the night of February 28th?
The classic rivalry between Red Team and Blue Team continued, with Red Team challenging Blue Team for the land at Tukuta. Red Team blew the MCR and Blue Team took initial control of the claim. Red Team launched a series of coordinated assaults and managed to take the claim from Blue Team. Blue Team counter attacked and retook the claim. The fighting was intense, the balance of power equalized, and both sides held good on their word not to use medistims.
Control of the claim switched from one side to the next over and over again.
Red Team had control of the claim again, and for a longer duration than any of their previous attempts, and Blue Team was launching another strong offensive. With only two members of Red Team remaining on the claim, Blue Team tactically positioned with over a dozen combatants, it appeared that the claim would once more be reset.
Suddenly one member of Red Team was seen running toward the claim. Shots were fired, that member consumed a medi-stim, and continued to advance toward the claim.
The voice channels became very tense.
"Was that intentional? Is the deal off? Are we using medistims now?"
An inquiry was made to the leader of Red Team as to whether the medistim use was accidental or an intentional breach of the agreement. What happened next was an absolute breakdown in communication. In the end both sides reverted to using medistims, and everyone walked off the field feeling a massive sense of disappointment.
The facts:
1. Both Red Team and Blue Team agreed not to use medistims throughout the duration of the land grab.
2. The land grab claim went back and forth between Red Team and Blue Team several times.
3. A member of Red Team used a medistim while Red Team was out numbered at the claim.
4. Communication attempts to resolve the issue failed.
5. Both societies used medistims thereafter.
What I think probably happened (personal opinion here):
1. One member of Red Team made a mistake, probably had the Medistim hotkeyed and accidently pressed that key at a critical moment of land grab.
2. In the heat of the moment, the leader of Red Team likely felt that the inquiry was an accusation. His heated emotional response rapidly elevated tensions between the two sides.
3. As the time was continuing to drag on, other stim-pills (nutristim, devatim, accustim, etc) were expiring on multiple players on both sides. These pills were renewed, causing a similar white glow aura seen on medistims but for a shorter duration. Simultaneously, some of these players were using restoration chips, giving heal over time and giving the perception that medistims were being used.
4. Players from both sides retaliated to the perceived use of medistims by their opponents.
5. After confirmed medistim uses by key players, the breach of agreement became irreversible.
So what can we take away from this?
1. Both sides wanted this land grab to be free of medi-stims.
2. The abstinence of medi-stims resulted in a much more fair fight, evidenced by the back and forth shifting of the claim.
3. The honor system does not work for removing medi-stims from land grab events.
Conclusion:
Even if it is not made categorical across PvP (as has been requested numerous times in the past), there should be at least an option to remove medi-stims from Land Grab events. This could be something as simple as a toggle switch for the current holder of a land area, or a mutual-agreement toggle switch between opposing forces (requiring that a society has won at least 1 land grab to show evidence of having an invested interest in participation).
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Very respectfully,
Captain Jack.
1. Purpose: This thread was created due to the observation of obvious mutual interest of opposing factions, and ALL discussion on this thread need to be kept on topic.
2. NO flaming. If you have a bone to pick with someone individually or categorically take it somewhere else. Keep all posts on topic.
3. NO personal arguments. If you have a bone to pick with someone individually or categorically take it somewhere else. Keep all posts on topic.
4. Use "I" statements to state personal opinions, and let "them" and "they" state their own opinions.
Note; Throughout the thread I will be using "Red Team" and "Blue Team" to refer to the societies involved. For the purpose of this thread it does not matter which society was either color, what matters was the outcome and what can be learned.
February 28th 2020 the fight at Tukuta Plateau was a historic event.
Two opposing factions which have been pitted against each other for over a year had expressed mutual dissatisfaction with the use of Medi-Stims at Land Grab. Through significant diplomatic effort a mutual agreement was made, held together by a fragile strand of trust, not to use medistims at land grab, enforced on the honor system.
Before we move further into the story, allow me to share some amplifying information on why medistims are a problem in the first place. While an infinite number of arguments can be made, three points seem highly compelling and therefor shall be my focal point.
Point 1: Sportsmanship. People come to PvP with a wide range of talent, avatar skills, equipment, and bankroll. Under the current system in which medistims are allowed, bankroll is the most critical of these components. I know several very talented PKers who enjoy the competitive aspects of PvP, but for whom the enjoyment is ruined because someone with deeper pockets can defeat a more talented PKer by simply out-spending them, consuming copious amounts of medistims. I can confirm this to be the case because I am one of those deeper-pocketed players and I have personally done this, defeating specific PKers on the opposing side who I know are objectively better PKers than I am. Despite the advantage this gives me, I acknowledge it does reduce the equity and sportsmanship of the event, and many others agree.
Point 2: Efficacy of Intended Systems. To hold down the fort at Land Grab a society must have at least 1 player on the claim without interruption lasting more than 30 seconds. With the current size and capability of the two primary opposing factions participating at land grab today, and the use of Medi-stims, this can be achieved by simply trickling players in one by one even if they are all dying shortly after reaching the claim. This effectively turns the land grab into a race to hit the claim marker as soon as the MCR is destroyed, and whichever society makes the claim first ultimately wins the land grab. Any further fighting is a futile waste, and we have seen several land grabs turn out this way.
I do not believe this was the intended result when MindArk implemented medistims. This method, too, points back to point 1 in reducing the sportsmanship of the event.
Point 3: Medistim Particle Effects and Lag. The use of a medistim causes a white glow and a lingering aura of particles. When used by multiple players in a PvP environment, this causes significant lag to most players on all graphics settings which gets progressively worse as the land grab progresses. This increases overall frustration of the land grab, reduces fighting efficacy, and overall dissatisfaction with the game.
So what happened the night of February 28th?
The classic rivalry between Red Team and Blue Team continued, with Red Team challenging Blue Team for the land at Tukuta. Red Team blew the MCR and Blue Team took initial control of the claim. Red Team launched a series of coordinated assaults and managed to take the claim from Blue Team. Blue Team counter attacked and retook the claim. The fighting was intense, the balance of power equalized, and both sides held good on their word not to use medistims.
Control of the claim switched from one side to the next over and over again.
Red Team had control of the claim again, and for a longer duration than any of their previous attempts, and Blue Team was launching another strong offensive. With only two members of Red Team remaining on the claim, Blue Team tactically positioned with over a dozen combatants, it appeared that the claim would once more be reset.
Suddenly one member of Red Team was seen running toward the claim. Shots were fired, that member consumed a medi-stim, and continued to advance toward the claim.
The voice channels became very tense.
"Was that intentional? Is the deal off? Are we using medistims now?"
An inquiry was made to the leader of Red Team as to whether the medistim use was accidental or an intentional breach of the agreement. What happened next was an absolute breakdown in communication. In the end both sides reverted to using medistims, and everyone walked off the field feeling a massive sense of disappointment.
The facts:
1. Both Red Team and Blue Team agreed not to use medistims throughout the duration of the land grab.
2. The land grab claim went back and forth between Red Team and Blue Team several times.
3. A member of Red Team used a medistim while Red Team was out numbered at the claim.
4. Communication attempts to resolve the issue failed.
5. Both societies used medistims thereafter.
What I think probably happened (personal opinion here):
1. One member of Red Team made a mistake, probably had the Medistim hotkeyed and accidently pressed that key at a critical moment of land grab.
2. In the heat of the moment, the leader of Red Team likely felt that the inquiry was an accusation. His heated emotional response rapidly elevated tensions between the two sides.
3. As the time was continuing to drag on, other stim-pills (nutristim, devatim, accustim, etc) were expiring on multiple players on both sides. These pills were renewed, causing a similar white glow aura seen on medistims but for a shorter duration. Simultaneously, some of these players were using restoration chips, giving heal over time and giving the perception that medistims were being used.
4. Players from both sides retaliated to the perceived use of medistims by their opponents.
5. After confirmed medistim uses by key players, the breach of agreement became irreversible.
So what can we take away from this?
1. Both sides wanted this land grab to be free of medi-stims.
2. The abstinence of medi-stims resulted in a much more fair fight, evidenced by the back and forth shifting of the claim.
3. The honor system does not work for removing medi-stims from land grab events.
Conclusion:
Even if it is not made categorical across PvP (as has been requested numerous times in the past), there should be at least an option to remove medi-stims from Land Grab events. This could be something as simple as a toggle switch for the current holder of a land area, or a mutual-agreement toggle switch between opposing forces (requiring that a society has won at least 1 land grab to show evidence of having an invested interest in participation).
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Very respectfully,
Captain Jack.
Last edited:
