Let Get Real Clear on Cheaters/Botters and How to Fight Them

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so, I guess all the pissed people in this thread are the ones that got caught?
:laugh:


Well, I can only embrace botters. I want more of them!!!
I encountered and reported one outside twins while he was doing argo.

So much fun, to kill steal his mobs for 15 minutes before he got back at his keyboard. :wtg:

Suckers!!!! :laugh:
 
So, you got caught. Clear.
Now, just be a man and stop whining.

The sad issue and state of the game is the Botters think I am whining and that I should mind my own business instead of reporting them to try and have a better community and fair gameplay. There is just so many people Botting they don't think they are doing anything wrong and this is when we need a big purge removing the 100's of them so the game is just a better place to move on from there.

Obviously some things should change from gameplay if anything from this which would be great because well. Gameplay in this game is lackluster and improving that will only make Entropia a more marketable product. The real answer is to penalize the Botters by banning them MA loses nothing from this because they will eventually make new accounts and deposit again. That is what cheaters do. Then remove the F interact, next target keys from hunting to create a more fluid RPG element.

The players benefit because we are left with a better game, rising MU from lack of 24/7 hunting while people sleep. (their gear gets liquidated and sold to the legit players too) Seriously if you can't hunt 24/7 anymore then there will be a lot less material in the system and thus making MU across the board on many things much higher. Maybe at that point we can then address all the professions as a whole to make them actually feel like professions. Many of them need some love and balance in the form of loot pools and itemization.

However fixing any game always starts with removing the ones ruining it or suffer the fate of other games that left this unchecked for too long and disappeared.

Edit- To the ones saying MA needs this hunting activity, you are wrong. What MA needs is to remove the cheaters and create a fair environment so we can have a growing players base instead of dwindling botting one. The hunting activity can increase in the big picture by increasing new players that will log in and deposit instead of supporting the cheaters, which causes many players to leave. No game needs bottters, Entropia is not exempt from the hurtful impact they cause for the community.
 
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Gameplay in this game is lackluster and improving that will only make Entropia a more marketable product.

Then remove the F interact, next target keys from hunting to create a more fluid RPG element.

Please no, what you suggest is the opposite of improving gameplay.

There have been botters in the past, before we had the interaction key, even before we had auto use. So what you suggest is terrible for the game, and doesn't solve anything about botters.
 
Please no, what you suggest is the opposite of improving gameplay.

There have been botters in the past, before we had the interaction key, even before we had auto use. So what you suggest is terrible for the game, and doesn't solve anything about botters.

Yes there were botters in the past but a lot less of them. Making it super easy to AFK hunt/Bot isn't a good gameplay model and there isn't really an argument opposing that. We don't want hunting to be a snooze fest doing it or watching it on Twitch. That isn't a marketable product to increase the player base and no one wants to join a game where cheating is accepted.

Next what is your suggestion then? Refuting a change to gameplay which we sorely need without a suggestion is just denying the problem without trying to fix it.

This is an MMORPG and killing creatures in other games is far more fun. We need to increase the fun factor and gameplay aspect of it to give people a reason to partake in it or watch it. So a different system is the answer and looking at other RPGs you can come up with what works best for here or a hybrid of several to deliver a better immersive experience for the gamer. Then they will feel entertained and actually deposit or not feel as bad when returns aren't good.

End goal should be harsh penalties to anyone that Bots or Cheats and letting the community know that MA is fighting against this relentlessly. As well as delivering a solid gameplay to bring more players in. If nothing changes then nothing changes and the community dwindles even more.
 
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Yes there were botters in the past but a lot less of them.

So you have some numbers on this?

Next what is your suggestion then? Refuting a change to gameplay which we sorely need without a suggestion is just denying the problem without trying to fix it.

Your idea is no fix for the problem you want solved. I don't have to make a suggestion.

End goal should be harsh penalties to anyone that Bots or Cheats and letting the community know that MA is fighting against this relentlessly.

Exactly, changing gameplay back to how it was years ago is no solution.
 
There's no need to change the gameplay. There's no format that can NOT be botted.

Only real fix here is for MA, when obvious real time example is brought to their attention and they can confirm with their own simple investigation, a simple 2 week temp-ban every time and presto. Folks will stop.

But without punishment, no other changes will fix things.
 
You got caught botting and you mad ? I will be ashamed and delete my existance if that happend to me :lolup:

I got caught not paying attention. Won't happen again.

You, on the other hand have always been a loon.
 
Life Imitates art imitates Life

Alright I've decided to weigh in on this thread and here's what I say about people who are resellers and who are scammers and what I might say might hurt.. But then I have a motto:Life Imitates art imitates Life

And I'm going to prove this with what is going on in the worlds Current Events (namely the Pandemic of COVID-19/Ncov-Sars -2.)

First off to the resellers I say this and I'm going to say it best.. You are like people who hoard Toilent paper and then turn around and try to sell it for an insane Price, and in fact I'm going to tell you a little story about a guy who actually did this in real life..

Imagine a guy who has over 17,000 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer.. and that he's going to sell a bottle to you for not the usual price but up to 60 times the amount. Think I'm joking.. Note Serious face, cause I'm not..
That's what happened here in the states when the national Medical Emergency was announced and one guy in Tennessee actually bought up 17,000 actual bottles of Hand Sanitizer was going to have anyone pay up to 50 to 60 times the cost.. and he would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for Law Enforcement who had stopped him.. I short instead of hoarding it, he was given one of two choices.. Either Donate the Hand Sanitizer to needy people or go to jail for 15 years.. No joke again. Yo ucan figure out which route he went with this.. he donated the hand sanitizer and saved himself a lot of Jail Time for Price Gouging.

Then there's another fellow (Don't know what state this was but it was in one of the Midwestern states who was selling Toilet Paper out of the back of his van for 660 Dollars a ROLL 24 rolls of Toilet paper rolls on average costs about 10 US Dollars. and this was going to profit by trying to sell stuff at 60 dollars PER ROLL Now would you as a person buy from this guy Of course not.. So let's apply that to the state of the game and you'll see why reselling items (Especially sweat ) isn't going to ge tyou anywhere, and your reputation will be shot.. You do this to someone who needs to use a product and you mark it up 60 times and you will be shown the door, and be noted as such, yoour business will dry up and you'll start to prey on others and eventually people will get so disgusted with you that they don't want to deal with you.

Is this what you want? If you do, then Go buy that 60 dollar roll of Toilet paper.. and then see what happens when you run out and have to go back gain and again..

Then we move on to the next part the SCAMMERS especially the Trust Scammers. People that dod this are scum.. and in fact I got a real life case in New York City right now where some scammers are doing "Tests' which aren't real to see if you have the virus.. and well they'll stiff you for 400 bucks .. a test..

Would you as a scammer but your trust that another scammer would give you a 400 dollar test to see if you have a deadly virus running in your body? Of course not..No one would except for these guys.. They want our money and they'll do it without a second thought.. Would you trust someone like that to say you're negative only to come down and end up on a ventilator a few days later and you are out 400 bucks? I shure wouldn't but people still do it, and that's why they are SCUM..

So yeah do that to a guy who you built up your trust with and you're going to end up on that ventilator even though you paid 400 dollars for a test that was supposedly negative.. Think about that as you are gasping for breath...

And if you think that was a kicker, how about people scamming people about drugs that are dangerous that they say that will cure anything.. These guys are snake oil salesmen and Sales Women, and well They are killing people.. would you put your trust in people like these ? You shouldn't have to go further than the President of the United States himself, the biggest snake Oil salesman.. Here's a guy who is playing doctor and telling people to take a drug that if done improperly can KILL you.. and already a couple of stupid people hav eand they've become part of the "Dead" Statistic..

So yeah try that and see what you get.. yo might have someone actually show up and throttle you.. or worse.. And if you think I'm kidding I know of another story of a guy who trust scammed his friend out of a sword worth a lot of money in another game.. and the friend returned the favor.. by killing the guy who trust scammed him? is this what you want? To be a statistic for Ripping someone off? No one wants to die Life is too precious and in fact this is what I'm getting at..

*Takes Deep breath*

Now then.. do I make myself perfectly clear/ If not let me spell it out this way.. Life imitates art (The gme) and that could come back and b e applied by another person (in Real life).. so stop.. think, and consider your options.. Cause the next step you make might be your last.. or , if you are smart, you might not end up like these real life examples.. You might later say , "Wow I could have become a statistic..

Money in the game to me Is irrelevant it's ll about the fun.. it's not a casino, it's not a way to profit, It is a way to have fun however and that's the point.. Life is fleeting and you can enjoy being with friends without having to interact.. or you can socialize without the fear of being infected without a virus..

And yes I found out today that a well known doctor made a astute point.. we as a species might not be able to shake hands ever again.. that's a sad story right there.. if this si the case then let's say this.. "Let's shake on it and realize one thing..

You cheat, or scam, you are doing to get hurt.. You don't and you won't.. Play fair and please be kind to other folks even if you don't understand their language that's what Google Translate is for..

Enough said..

(Sgt. ) Benjamin Ben Coyote , IFN Marines,
A.K.A. "The Bline Sniper (and ) his_Pets
 
I got caught not paying attention. Won't happen again.

You, on the other hand have always been a loon.

uhoh the avatar with 100% aim in pvp gets caught using a bot for hunting. im not surprised.
:lolup::lolup::lolup:
 
uhoh the avatar with 100% aim in pvp gets caught using a bot for hunting. im not surprised.
:lolup::lolup::lolup:

Uh oh the avatar that accuses 100% of people who kill him of using an aim bot accuses me of using an aim bot. :rolleyes:
 
This thread would not have been complete without Ben Coyote chiming in.
 
This game is/was as surreal as the state of the world today.

Hacks, bots, MA (or PP's whatever) loaning GM items to their friends....

All we can do is vote with our wallets.
 
imo the one video i watched is not clear evidence of botting... in fact this looks exactly like me hunting, keeping eu in a background window and just flipping over to hammer F, without paying the slightest attention to what's happening around me... possibly have annoyed others (unintentionally), but have not used anything outside of the tools provided by ma


it doesn't matter anyway, there's zero difference between someone using a bot to automate their play vs someone playing semi-afk for n hours a day (or loading up the craft machine for 72 hours) ... other than the person botting is probably losing a lot more money than the manual player


citing how other mmos handle things is not relevant since other mmos don't promote afk play the same way eu does... if you really feel ma should waste resources actively pursuing these alleged botters, then to be fair you should also petition ma to remove the auto-tool and the ability to multi-craft etc


don't really understand these endless busybody threads...
 
it doesn't matter anyway, there's zero difference between someone using a bot to automate their play vs someone playing semi-afk for n hours a day (or loading up the craft machine for 72 hours) ... other than the person botting is probably losing a lot more money than the manual player


citing how other mmos handle things is not relevant since other mmos don't promote afk play the same way eu does... if you really feel ma should waste resources actively pursuing these alleged botters, then to be fair you should also petition ma to remove the auto-tool and the ability to multi-craft etc


don't really understand these endless busybody threads...

exactly.....
Makes no difference to me if someone uses a bot because he can't be bothered or buys his wife a vibrator because he can't be bothered...his choice


..but I do understand those endless threads...boredome :D
 
it doesn't matter anyway, there's zero difference between someone using a bot to automate their play vs someone playing semi-afk for n hours a day (or loading up the craft machine for 72 hours) ... other than the person botting is probably losing a lot more money than the manual player

I realize it is not popular, but it is this. When it comes to markup, it isn't botters that ruin it. It is both the lack of demand and all the people who just have no problem undercutting by large margins - not just the 0.01%. The majority of loot is shrapnel. If they were wanting to discourage this activity, they shouldn't have made it infinity easier with F spam.
 
I see a lot of people assuming that botting has no consequence in terms of anything but increased supply etc. While it is anecdotal currently and hence i will not get into the details of it, there is a big assumption being made by people here that loot is not time dependent in anyway.

However, for a minute assume that it is, then a bot has a huge and a very unfair advantage over the rest of the population as they are way more likely to hit the waves then someone doing things manually.

Just food for thought, I will not go on further with this as of now till i have conclusive evidence supporting the same.

Cheers,

Divinity
 
However, for a minute assume that it is, then a bot has a huge and a very unfair advantage over the rest of the population as they are way more likely to hit the waves then someone doing things manually.


if this were the reason, even less evidence for the player in question to be a botter since afaik daikiba don't have any rare loot waves worth grinding 24/7...


regardless, your assertion is that playtime is an advantage; in which case someone without a job or family obligations also has an advantage over the "regular" population, should we ban them also?
 
if this were the reason, even less evidence for the player in question to be a botter since afaik daikiba don't have any rare loot waves worth grinding 24/7...

I am referencing tt loot as a function of time and not just "rare loot" waves.

regardless, your assertion is that playtime is an advantage; in which case someone without a job or family obligations also has an advantage over the "regular" population, should we ban them also?

So your objectiveness puts the same value to someone working 20 hrs a day and getting his paycheck versus someone just filling in the 20 hrs in his job sheet and taking the paycheck??

Someone hunting the 20 hrs has an advantage but comes at a cost of those hours. I can decide whether i want to work for the 20 hrs or play a game. However using a bot i can work while the bot plays. That is an unfair advantage if i ever heard of one.
 
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I am referencing tt loot as a function of time and not just "rare loot" waves.

ah ok, so you mean the general loot cycles being time-based vs step-based? it's a question i've asked myself many times, because one could be gamed the other could not... i think it's very difficult to prove either way, so will be excited if you've discovered empirical evidence to support either theory


So your objectiveness puts the same value to someone working 20 hrs a day and getting his paycheck versus someone just filling in the 20 hrs in his job sheet and taking the paycheck??

yes because objectively the results are the same to an external observer - what i see is two people collecting 20-hr paychecks, how much effort they put in during the time they are paid for doesn't alter the facts of the observation... but if i discovered the truth of what you describe i would subjectively judge one of them

Someone hunting the 20 hrs has an advantage but comes at a cost of those hours. I can decide whether i want to work for the 20 hrs or play a game. However using a bot i can work while the bot plays. That is an unfair advantage if i ever heard of one.

is it though? like the paycheck example, you are placing a personal judgement on perceived effort for an observed outcome... what difference does it make if someone hunts for 20 hours with a script or while playing another game or watching a movie or anything else? food for thought - i personally play mostly while i work, so i am choosing to do both, which by your statement should give me an unfair advantage.. but i don't use any bot, so isn't my advantage within fair-play? it goes back to my original statement - MA has designed this game for afk play, so if someone has an issue with bots, the same logic should be applied to the auto-tool, multi-craft, and all other tools that enable this style of play
 
I can't believe there's actually a debate whether botting gives an unfair advantage or not
 
ah ok, so you mean the general loot cycles being time-based vs step-based? it's a question i've asked myself many times, because one could be gamed the other could not... i think it's very difficult to prove either way, so will be excited if you've discovered empirical evidence to support either theory

As someone who killed tons of small mobs, I can say that there's definitely a time factor to it, I mean there's many factors ofc, but rare loot and good multipliers often come in waves, and your returns largely depend on how many of these waves you can get during a hunting/mining run.

Sometimes when the loot is bad, waves would be rare, good multis are too far apart. But when the loot is good, you can get like 2-3 waves in an hour with several multis in each wave, that's where you can get 2 globals in a row. Loot availability can and does change during the day, i.e. bad loot in the morning and ok loot in the evening on the same mob is totally possible.

Same goes for rare loot, if u hunt 24/7, you're guaranteed to get it. As for Daikiba, the cloth is used in some boosted BPs, Daikiba wool is uncommon to rare and when I bought some like a month ago MU was about 130%, it's not much, but considering there's hardly any MU in hunting that's pretty good I'd say.

And btw, I thought the use of third party software that interferes with the game directly is supposed to be banned, unless it's LBML or the tracker ofc.
 
And btw, I thought the use of third party software that interferes with the game directly is supposed to be banned, unless it's LBML or the tracker ofc.

Honestly, I don't think Mindark's ever said that LBML or Tracker or exceptions to the rule... When CEOs change again in a couple of years everyone running those could potentially get banned I suspect, even if they allow the exception now, that could change in the future.
 
Honestly, I don't think Mindark's ever said that LBML or Tracker or exceptions to the rule... When CEOs change again in a couple of years everyone running those could potentially get banned I suspect, even if they allow the exception now, that could change in the future.


Neither LBML nor Tracker are "interfering" with anything. Nor, for what matters, a bot.
 
As someone who killed tons of small mobs, I can say that there's definitely a time factor to it, I mean there's many factors ofc, but rare loot and good multipliers often come in waves, and your returns largely depend on how many of these waves you can get during a hunting/mining run.

Sure I agree with your experience, but I don't think there is "definitely" a time component.. I could give you the same experience without. Here's what I mean..

If we vastly over-simplify the loot function to something like this: f(x) = Θx where x is TT in and theta is the multiplier for the input, the question becomes, how is theta derived? Consider hunting 5 mobs over time, and these are your returns on those 5 kills (top number is theta):

Code:
0.8    0.3    0.9    2.5    0.4
13:00  13:05  13:10  13:15  13:20

The commonly-held belief is that theta is a product of time, such that e.g. Θ = time * eff * overkill * etc (parameters normalized ofc); in which case I got the 2.5x mult because at 13:15 I happened to loot at the right time in the cycle.

Alternatively, what if theta is calculated from a histogram? E.g. Θ = hist * eff *etc. In this way, theta is calculated with weighted probability based on prior input/output. As my overall returns decrease, probability for mult goes up, and visa-versa. In this case, the 2.5x occurred not because of time, but due to the probability for it being high enough.

A time-based algo would be a pretty bad choice for an RCE, since it could be exploited if one could reasonably predict the cycle peaks, not to mention statistically it would create a lot of disparity between players' returns. Conversely, a histogram-based algo would be significantly easier to regulate and provide a more consistent average return across all players (e.g. loot 2.0), while also being drastically more difficult exploit. NOTE: I am only talking about TT returns... I do think it's fairly obvious that rare loots operate on independent time-based cycles.


And btw, I thought the use of third party software that interferes with the game directly is supposed to be banned, unless it's LBML or the tracker ofc.

It is, and let me clarify my position... I do not condone botting, and I think if someone is clearly caught botting [by MA] they should be penalized as they violate the ToU. What I am "debating" is whether or not we need one of these retarded threads every week. I postulate that a botter does not impact Detritus' gameplay in any way, does not steal loot from me, does not fuck up the economy, does not gain an unfair advantage - to any greater extent than any other player - thus I could not care less what other players do, I just worry about Detritus. I see these players who decide to put on their sheriff badge and go around policing other player activity as tedious busybodies who need to get a life. More importantly - the game is in a pretty fucking sad state, the infrastructure is still borked with lots of lag and failures still weeks after the breaking VU.. I do NOT want MA to waste their resources investigating botters, I want them focused on fixing the game.
 
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