Auction fraud, entrapment, manipulation attempts

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Since we have increased awareness of wrongdoing now :rolleyes:, I think it is high time for getting serious about battling another menace in this RCE, namely more or less blatant attempts to trick you out of your money using various means of manipulation and exploitation of known human weaknesses using the auction house.

To do this, I would like to dedicate this thread to the posting of screenshots of auctions or auction orders you believe are created with malicious intent. There shouldn't be lengthy discussions about them right here, though it's probably unavoidable sometimes to clarify false positives.

In keeping with forum rules and to prevent all previous work from getting wiped, you MUST edit out the names. This is easily done with the simplest of all graphics programs, if you don't know how and don't want to learn it please refrain from posting. In the (foreseeable) event that people can't remain reasonable for half an hour and insist on getting it closed or deleted, there is the Wayback Machine and other domains but we'd be robbed of a tool right where it matters. Hence those who go about destroying it may be seen on the side of the fraudsters it is targeting.

We know that MindArk monitors this forum. We will not get to learn about individual actions taken and there is no point asking about them. The purpose here is to increase public awareness of patterns of fraud, and by this to counter frustration about perceived lack of closure-giving responses when submitting such cases to support. You know why they can't, but you also need a way to deal with the feeling of powerlessness. I have filed several support cases in this vein but can't keep up with the sheer frequency of these things appearing, much more so since the ability to file a support ticket from within the game was removed.

Remember also that such a deceptive transaction would be reversible and punishable under Swedish law, which is above the "all trades are final" rule inside our little bubble. The company's canned response "you should always pay attention..." will not be sufficient once someone decides to fight. Only the trouble of going through the motions, and people obviously not needing their money or they would, makes most perps get away so easily. Shaming and bullying folks who come forward having made such mistakes serves no purpose other than making the game less safe for yourself.

So, I want to start this with a scheme I see quite frequently, the creation of an auction with the obvious purpose to entrap players with a large ped card who, blurry after hours of grinding or lazy or inattentive for any other reason, would use the leftmost up arrow to buy out an item instead of doing it the safe but tedious way. The buyout price here is so cleverly set that the last two digits show the usual or a plausible markup for this item, exploiting a psychological property in human perception which is liable for blinding out the zeroes to the left all the way up to the hammer. It must be working often enough since they are even willing to pay a substantial fee for the listing. (Another possible explanation might be that they're attempting to pull markups up, but deem it unlikely here. Also that this listing itself is made in error seems unlikely since the price is targeted so accurately.)



Please post what you find, and please don't forget to edit out the names.

When is it being manipulation?
Making an idiot sale like the example in your picture?
Or is it also like trying to sell things like Xmas rings for 5k more then current MU?
Where's the line?
 
attachment.php



tier 8 at around 4k for the unique sale, tier 9 at around......... ooooooh!!!! :scratch2:

:cool:

And an awesome fap at an awesome price! :scratch2:

attachment.php


attachment.php


:cool::cool:

In the history you can see that some faps were actually sold for that price. To his alt avatar or somebody actually fell for it..
 
When is it being manipulation?
Making an idiot sale like the example in your picture?
Or is it also like trying to sell things like Xmas rings for 5k more then current MU?
Where's the line?

As already explained: There is nothing wrong with buying low and selling high, or aiming a bit ott while trying. Traders are learning the ropes, too. Unless you got some, er, accomplices to help you with the sales going through when they normally wouldn't. This is not immediately obvious from a single screenshot, but when you're in the market for a specific item and aren't blind, you can often spot movements that are suspicious. Or someone on the inside with the tools to investigate may find out about possible collusion this way and might be able to stop a scheme before shtf. The purpose of publishing here is to alert the public of patterns they should not ignore. It doesn't mean each one of the above is a fraud, but certain types of fraud can look like that.
 
As already explained: There is nothing wrong with buying low and selling high, or aiming a bit ott while trying. Traders are learning the ropes, too. Unless you got some, er, accomplices to help you with the sales going through when they normally wouldn't. This is not immediately obvious from a single screenshot, but when you're in the market for a specific item and aren't blind, you can often spot movements that are suspicious. Or someone on the inside with the tools to investigate may find out about possible collusion this way and might be able to stop a scheme before shtf. The purpose of publishing here is to alert the public of patterns they should not ignore. It doesn't mean each one of the above is a fraud, but certain types of fraud can look like that.

So, if I sell a technician bp for 100 ped then I'm a scammer.

But if I sell an uber ring for 30k while all recorded sales and current offers are 25k, then it's ok?
:scratch2:

So, where's the line between good or wrong?

Both examples trick people into paying to much.
But then again, what's to much?

Isn't it all just the responsibility of the buyer?
 
So, if I sell a technician bp for 100 ped then I'm a scammer.

But if I sell an uber ring for 30k while all recorded sales and current offers are 25k, then it's ok?
:scratch2:

So, where's the line between good or wrong?

Both examples trick people into paying to much.
But then again, what's to much?

Isn't it all just the responsibility of the buyer?
But it is all explained in clear words in the previous posts. Once again: If you employ other avatars to perform sham sales for the purpose of manipulating an item's markup history, it is clearly a scam. If you just manage to rake an excessive margin from a sale to a naive or lazy person, then it is their fault or they may just not care. If you do this by deliberately exploiting known weaknesses, it depends, but at least Swedish law has provisions against that, too. MA won't like having to deal with it but such transactions can be contested. The resale of fresh TT blueprints is a matter of opinion and probably borderline for most, at least one legitimate case is when you offer them on a planet where they're not available from Technician.
 
So, if I sell a technician bp for 100 ped then I'm a scammer.
But if I sell an uber ring for 30k while all recorded sales and current offers are 25k, then it's ok?
:scratch2:

The ethical difference between a 1,000,000% premium for a TT item and 20% premium over auction value, 10% premium over most recent off market sale, for an uber item with an increasing demand and upward market trend at the time of listing, should be fairly easy to recognize even to the untrained eye.
 
The ethical difference between a 1,000,000% premium for a TT item and 20% premium over auction value, 10% premium over most recent off market sale, for an uber item with an increasing demand and upward market trend at the time of listing, should be fairly easy to recognize even to the untrained eye.

So, tell me, where's the line?
Do YOU set it?

Both are simply ways to make money off other players.

If a technician BP can be bought for 0,01 and someone tries to push it for 100, that could be considered a rip off.

But if a certain ring can be bought on auction or PCF for 25k and someone tries to push it for 30k, I also consider that a rip off.

Sure, call it whatever you like, I just call it ripping off.

But hey, that's just my humble opinion. That's why I asked, who determines what's good and what's wrong?

Someone already stated it here, if there's money involved, people will try to obtain it. The good way, the bad way or just any way.
 
So, tell me, where's the line?
Do YOU set it?

Both are simply ways to make money off other players.

If a technician BP can be bought for 0,01 and someone tries to push it for 100, that could be considered a rip off.

But if a certain ring can be bought on auction or PCF for 25k and someone tries to push it for 30k, I also consider that a rip off.

Sure, call it whatever you like, I just call it ripping off.

But hey, that's just my humble opinion. That's why I asked, who determines what's good and what's wrong?

Someone already stated it here, if there's money involved, people will try to obtain it. The good way, the bad way or just any way.

Prices are set by the laws of supply and demand and what people will pay for an item. If I buy a ring on PCF for 25k and then sell it for 30k, that is not a ripoff. Someone was willing to pay 30K and recognizing that earned me 5k profit. To you, it may seem like a ripoff because you think it was worth 20k, but that does not matter. The market does not revolve around YOUR opinion of prices. That is not how it works.

The assertion in this thread is that either collusion or trade washing is causing market values, in some cases, to be manipulated. I have sent cases over similar things with Liliane/Zwerizak and a few others over the years where auctions seemed very suspicious. The same individual I just mentioned sold 2 Terra Amp bps in the beginning for 150K to someone who got swindled and now no longer plays. It was sold under a false premise but in the end, it was worth someone to pay 150K - so I cannot necessarily blame Lil for the "scam". Public should be wiser. Despite that, the market dictated at the time the BPs were 150K and shortly after, they weren't. The same thing happens with land areas, but is a bit more hidden. Player buys dormant LA 1 for cheap and does an event for a couple months to show a history of what the LA pays often hiring people to grind on the LA or uses an alt to generate traffic. Player B sees the income and goes "wow" and buys LA 1 for a much higher price thinking it is a turn-key operation and gets sacked for a loss when that traffic suddenly disappears.
 
If a technician BP can be bought for 0,01 and someone tries to push it for 100, that could be considered a rip off.

But if a certain ring can be bought on auction or PCF for 25k and someone tries to push it for 30k, I also consider that a rip off.


1 is available at everywhere, anybody can purchase unlimited copy's at a fixed price.

other is one of the rarest item in the game that can be looted for 1 year, and than never again, you can't buy it unless somebody decide to sell his own.

You really compare that two?


That's why I asked, who determines what's good and what's wrong?

Common sense, but everybody have the right to disagree.


Both are simply ways to make money off other players.


Many says the game is exactly about this. You cant win VS the house, you have to make money off other players.
 
Thank you 5$ for expressing it more succinctly than I could. One additional point I'm trying to highlight is that the game itself with its numbing or burn-in effect can be a factor in people making such mistakes, which in turn can be targeted deliberately. Our powers that be may not be able to just shrug it off should someone decide to fight it, and would be wise to consider the eventuality.
 
The people that buyout at those MU's are using AH wrong. The "let's ban" someone for putting his willing MU is wrong imo.
We should ask ban for the guy that has some Nemesis part in AH for +12k?

Thats lame. :laugh:

learn to use AH and stop making wrong clicks then cry on forum.
 
2.13 - Scamming Accusation
Accusations of scamming that name specific real-world persons, Entropia Universe avatars or PlanetCalypsoForum.com members are NOT permitted. Providing other identifying information about accused persons or avatars is also not permitted, such as but not limited to: society names, nicknames, owned gear, equipment, estates, etc. Such threads or posts will be edited, deleted or locked without notice. For more info on the purpose of this rule, please see this thread: Rationale for the "no naming and shaming" forum rule.
 
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