Suggestion: Renovate The Supply Chain To Improve Markup

Actually it's not a horrible idea altogether... The standard BPs could be left to crafters (entire ArMatrix lineup) with a handful of rare (L) BPs for (L) weapons (like Augmented and Perfected etc) being dropped in loot. The crafters would still supply the hunting inventory, and hunters would also have a shot at something rare in loot with good markup.

These (L) BPs could be dropped in both regular loot, but also some more unique things
from events. That should make the event more popular if the drop is done properly. ;)
I guess we should not do too many suggestions yet since the big change in materials
and crafting should come first so we know whats around. If it ever comes that is... :silly2:
 
This is just what I guessed should come, crafters want this change mainly from their own interest,
not from the interest of improving EU in general. If you gonna drop a (serious) suggestion, exclude
yourself and look at it from a general p.o.v. ;)

Few crafters sits there looking at PC while crafting. That grind is not even close to a grind for
hunters, so if you want to be the ones that craft all unique and high end items instead of letting
hunters get those, you should also fall in to the supply chain and take over materials and BPs from
hunters and miners and then create the stuff and gain skills and earn some good amount of PEDs
from MU. :)

Actually for once i agree with Alukat, BP drops should not go into hunting loot, just like weapon drops should not go into crafting loot. Hunters & miners should already be providing the mats to crafters, crafters then provide tools to the hunters & miners. There is an economy in that model.....however MA already messed up early on and have to do quite a bit of work to correct it, which they are hesitant on doing.

Instead of providing new drops to the hunters, they need to work on making everything looted relevant and useful.
 
Actually for once i agree with Alukat, BP drops should not go into hunting loot, just like weapon drops should not go into crafting loot. Hunters & miners should already be providing the mats to crafters, crafters then provide tools to the hunters & miners. There is an economy in that model.....however MA already messed up early on and have to do quite a bit of work to correct it, which they are hesitant on doing.

Instead of providing new drops to the hunters, they need to work on making everything looted relevant and useful.

Yeah, I have to agree and say this supersedes my previous statement.
The intention of this thread is to promote solutions which improve demand for hunters loot, and try to rebalance the economic model to one which makes more sense.
 
Actually for once i agree with Alukat, BP drops should not go into hunting loot, just like weapon drops should not go into crafting loot. Hunters & miners should already be providing the mats to crafters, crafters then provide tools to the hunters & miners. There is an economy in that model.....however MA already messed up early on and have to do quite a bit of work to correct it, which they are hesitant on doing.

Instead of providing new drops to the hunters, they need to work on making everything looted relevant and useful.

The point here is that if hunters only can loot materials and no interesting items, then the loss
of items is compensated by BPs. BPs should not be in loot if hunters can keep looting items.
If everyone gonna loot same stuff MU will drop a lot, even more so if MA finally release their planned
changes in materials and crafting, since less stuff will be around.
 
The point here is that if hunters only can loot materials and no interesting items, then the loss
of items is compensated by BPs. BPs should not be in loot if hunters can keep looting items.
If everyone gonna loot same stuff MU will drop a lot, even more so if MA finally release their planned
changes in materials and crafting, since less stuff will be around.

If BPs drop from hunting, then the material MU will go down even further, as crafters won't have to buy materials for BP grind anymore. (2/3 of the TT value of materials i used were used for BP grind)...

and then crafters won't have interesting to loot anymore ^^

So, no, just no.
 
The point here is that if hunters only can loot materials and no interesting items, then the loss
of items is compensated by BPs. BPs should not be in loot if hunters can keep looting items.
If everyone gonna loot same stuff MU will drop a lot, even more so if MA finally release their planned
changes in materials and crafting, since less stuff will be around.

How do you define "interesting items"?

To me an Empty Skill Implant (L) is an "interesting item" purely because of the markup it commands.
If the demand for materials is increased, hunting loot becomes more interesting.
 
If BPs drop from hunting, then the material MU will go down even further, as crafters won't have to buy materials for BP grind anymore. (2/3 of the TT value of materials i used were used for BP grind)...

and then crafters won't have interesting to loot anymore ^^

So, no, just no.

Could be, could also be so that more hunters will go the DIY road, leaving crafters who only
craft in shortage of material, forcing them to either hunt themselfs or create orders with higher MU.
So maybe it isn't so smart to remove things that we have as goal when we do different things?
E.g BPs in crafting and items in hunting.

How do you define "interesting items"?

To me an Empty Skill Implant (L) is an "interesting item" purely because of the markup it commands.
If the demand for materials is increased, hunting loot becomes more interesting.

Could be anything really, both L and UL, doesn't really matter, what matters is they all disapear if
we let hunters only loot materials. Sure we could get a bit higher MU but at the same time making hunting
extremly boring after a while.
 
Could be, could also be so that more hunters will go the DIY road, leaving crafters who only
craft in shortage of material, forcing them to either hunt themselfs or create orders with higher MU.
So maybe it isn't so smart to remove things that we have as goal when we do different things?
E.g BPs in crafting and items in hunting.

On one hand hunters want MU for the stuff and on the other hand they don't want to buy crafted stuff... that's the main issue here.
 
On one hand hunters want MU for the stuff and on the other hand they don't want to buy crafted stuff... that's the main issue here.

That and a system with more need of crafted items. Way too many features are too simple,
if they were more complex, with way more alternatives, there would be a higher demand
on crafted items.
E.g spaceships and other vehicles, houses and estates in general, and so on.
Why just drop ingots to a spaceship when SI upgrades could be based on crafted items?
This could be balanced with a slightly higher increase of SI per unit dropped to system.

Pure basics on things used in different actions should/could be UL (with alternatives that are L)
while better upgrades should be L.
You should always be able to finish the action with UL and basics but get improved results with L.
(Thrusters, plates, fuel and so on)

Imo they should redo system for enhancers also, so it gets a strict detoriation per use, even
though that might not increase crafting a lot but at least get more logical.
 
Maybe next time do armament device III instead of EP 4? it's 280.71 PED TT per click with a multiplier >5 you should still have the chance for opal , maybe you loot some quad-wing BP or maybe you discover some entirely new vehicle BP ^^

armament III needs:
adomasite ingot, henren cubes, galaxy S3 Ion conductors, simple 2 plastic springs.

or if that's too risky, maybe try warp drive 3 , same potential loot as arma III, but only 54.7 PED TT per click. You may even be able to sell those for MU ^^

There you could do something to boost the economy a bit.

speaking of armament device, MS parts need to get decay added, so there's gonna be demand for energy source, armament device, sub warp drive...

Never done ep4 most likely never will I just cant see mu in it. As your advise I think il carry on as I am thanks, I used up over 8k ped cald today 1k ped mag god knows what else for all the amps I built. Was also a very successful run mu wise tt was a little bit over nothing to high.
 
Never done ep4 most likely never will I just cant see mu in it. As your advise I think il carry on as I am thanks, I used up over 8k ped cald today 1k ped mag god knows what else for all the amps I built. Was also a very successful run mu wise tt was a little bit over nothing to high.

okay, then i did misunderstood your post.

my semi-condition roadie run was quite okay today, at least on the MU side. (more armatrix b-amp BPs at auction if anyone needs).
 
also some of the rarer materials need to have their droprate increased and the MU brought down a little.

this would adress the lack of certain materials and at the same time make more crafts worthwhile crafting. Also, there will be less low MU loot in the loot.
 
Been thinking a lot more about this, we don't necessarily need more or new BPs to solve the issue of tt-food/low MU hunting/mining loot. There's plenty of BPs which use that stuff. It's just necessary to grind and craft those BPs.
 
Some years ago, before 2013, there used to be an active economy. At that time regular wool and thin wool was around 102%-105% markup and residues something like 108% markup sometimes more, I think I even remember them at 110%. There was a initial advantage of 5% in burning all that wool, pushing the markup on hunting loot and at same time providing metal residues for bigger item crafters. This is what an economy is. Obtain product from one area of game (hunting), transform it and sell it to other distinct part of players in game (crafters). It was identical with some ores from mining. I remember caldorite for example being used to craft weapon scopes and sights just to farm BPs and residues, every time caldo reached a certain markup you could see some players globaling on those scopes and sights BPs. Of course 5% initial advantage when you can get 75% return run isn't much but sure it helped and was an incentive to burn those material. Now you just buy nanocubes from trade terminal and produce any amount of residues you want!

While some limited items are way cheaper now than they used to be, also the markup you obtain with those items is way less. I could get limited guns at TT value that I would never see more than 101% markup hunting Atroxs for example. And not a single item from them the last 5k kills anyway. I would prefer if I could sell the liver oil and the soft wool at 105% at least. Just auctioned 500ped tt of liver oil for around 101.5%. Taking the rule of 95% tt return long therm, you are doomed even before you start. But people still hunting them mostly because of the skill rewards from missions. And to remember there were no mission when I started, yet the game was so appealing.

The actual state of the game is just a crazy dysfunctional economy. Players log in buy ingredient from trade terminal, craft it, most of the time throw the products on trade terminal again and feed the auction orders at under 101% for residues. We all know that even if we gained 10% in markup most of the session we would still losing.

Actually everything revolves around seasonal events and the placement tokens. That provide even more unlimited items for the economy. Making even more players completely independents of all the other players. With the exception for the auction those players could play alone because they don't need anything from anyone, what make no sense in RCE where the E stands for economy.

The errors were made. The introducing of missions, making certain mobs over hunted even if the average markup loot from them is under 101%. Introducing of pure gambling blueprints (we even have 4 levels of slot machines depending of the size of your wallet, EP 1, 2, 3 and 4).

The new crafted armatrix line was good introduction and even revitalize some other components craft that were dead but it's only a drop in the ocean, like the OP very well said we need the same for armors and FAPs.

The auction orders for event were nice but it kinda felt a bit like cheating because it's and artificial demand for those components besides it's over now.

make it so nano cubes can be bought with ores or enmatters only, then it will make people use up some of the lower % ores and enmatters.

This is a great suggestion, it would work like constant auction order for ores/enmatters and why not for residues also? There is 4 types of residues but mostly of the times only one is in demand. Why should I throw animal oil residues in the trade terminal all the time? Place a NPC in every planet for the exchange of nano cubes or add a new tab on trade terminal where you can only pay the nano cubes with loot, being it ore, enmatters, any kind of residue, oils etc. I'm sure that it wouldn't hurt the game more than some decision already did.

Mayhem events and the introduction of even more unlimited items is bad too. They made it a bit more difficult with some items needing 2 placement tokens. It also seems that some uber items are just available in limited quantities what I think it's good already. Introduce other things worth the placement tokens, like vehicles, cloths with buffs, apartments maybe even land areas with a fair exchange of tokens of course.

The economy need to be a lot more stimulating. Other than mayhem events and spleen oil grinders.
 
i think there's already more to the whole armor thing:
grunt (500dur + 0prot) + AP-24 elec L (11500dur + 24 elec prot) vs. demon hacker has 0.752 decay
ozpyn beetle L (13350 dur + 25 stab prot) vs demon hacker has 1.050 decay
aurora L (12500 dur + 12 stab + 11 elec prot) vs. demon hacker has 0.852 decay
ghost (2000 dur + 13 stab + 11 elec prot) vs. demon hacker has 0.958 decay

demon hacker damage is 33.33% stab & 66.66% electric according to entropiawiki. The much higher Ozpyn decay may be due to the lack of electric protection. Does anyone have a formula for this?

The problem is with the way you are testing for this, you cannot test it this way, you have too much protection in order to get the values you seek.

The Demon Hacker does 34 damage, according to wiki. The reality is that he will deal you an amount of damage which falls randomly between 50%-100%, so in this case, between 17 and 34. Now 2/3 of that is electric, 1/3 is stab. So if you are testing for electric let's say, you will receive between 11.33 and 22.66 points of electric damage in a hit.

When you protect for 24 points of electric, you are over-protecting and you cannot deduce anything from the experiment because you don't know how much damage the plate actually absorbed (I think there's 1 point of stab protection on Grunt on top of all this so the whole thing just becomes a mess if you are trying to tell this based on how much hp you lost... it doesn't work)

The only way to test this accurately is to protect for an amount that is lower than the minimum amount that the mob will deal, that way you know for certain how much damage the armor or plate actually absorbed. So if you used an AP-6 Electric plate, on a noob set like Gnome for example, you could go out there and receive a hit from a Demon Hacker, then take the plate and put it in the tt to find out the exact decay and divide by 6 points of damage absorbed. A 6B plate would be too much and an AP-12 Electric plate would be too much, you'd have to use 4C, 1C or AP-6.

If you take the time to read the Armor Guide I wrote, I explain in great detail in the 'Further Research' section how to test mobs for damage types, it's very workable and it has a lot of explanations in there on how all these mechanics work and how best to proceed with testing.

Cheers o/

Legends
 
The actual state of the game is just a crazy dysfunctional economy.

not just that, about 2 years ago someone had the stupid idea that crafting L BPs, those are BPs that use TT-food mats, should be pure gamble and MA implemented that crap.

Yesterday i was buying 80 PED of TT-food stuff to craft some rather high MU items from L BP, all i got out of those 80 PED TT was a single 3.84 PED TT item and that most likely won't sell for TT+80. I quickly did regret having bought those TT-food materials and clicking that L BP, i should have bought nanocubes instead, that would have went much better...

and then people wonder why crafters aren't clicking those L BPs which use TT food materials...

the hunters/miners defending and came up with this "L BPs & generally low click runs should be a pure gamble"-shit should quit whining about lack of MU on hunted/mined materials.
You made your bed, now lie in it.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top