No random or chance, skills are enough to handle it.

Joat

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Since very few really knows how EU works, I write this as something that could be,
and as a hypothetical concept, not something that should be looked at in details too much.
Numbers used are just to illustrate the concept, with exception for the skillcap.
This concept is more about what we get than how much, even if it can include both to
a certain degree.

If we use skills as basics for the outcome, there is no need for a system with randomness.
How to use it is quite "simple".

You combine a certain amount of skills in something that could be seen as a step sequenzer,
where each comming step has a value that are the result of when putting maybe 2-3 skills and
attributes together, and system then use this value for whatever action it do.

To differentiat it some, each part to either gather up value from lists of skills or the movement to gather
it up are not exactly similar, just to make these values even more different for each time it ends
up as a step in the sequenzer.
E.g if part one in this use ten different skills, part two can use eleven, and part three use twelve,
or each part can use same list but move forward in a different speed.
How many different combinations will it not be if they use lets say 20 skills and 5 attributes?

Quite sure when it comes to EU that the old skillcap at 10k is still there for this, and not removed
as it was for professional standings. We can still see this cap that excisted in skill UI since after
10k rank is no longer filled up in progress bar.

Depending on which skills to use for this, the result is ofc different. They can include a lot of skills
to these lists that commonly are quite low for almost all playerbase.
Just look at Looter professions, they include skills that we don't gain doing the action and
further more, they are hard to gain even when we do scanning.

Attributes are low for everyone, since one attribute equals twenty points of a skill, and even if
someone have 250 in a attribute, that still just equals a skill of 5k.

What is the effect of this?
That none is even close to max out these values that are used.
How many have 10k in every skill, and 500 in every attribute? Non, other than MA avatars.
Why is the natural gain of attributes more or less dead above 110-120? To keep players
values low and to be used as something that keep values in steps low more often.

They can use level requirements as to when to get something in loot and things related to this.
It will not be very often that we get a combo that are high, and to complicate it even more, they
can use a lootsystem that works as a wavemachine, so to get a good loot both avatar and server
values have to be high at same time.
To this comes the need to gather up right values with gear or BPs we use.

This probably works for almost everything in EU, no matter if we mine, craft, hunt or open strongboxes.
Why do some get more rings than others?
Simple, they have higher values in the step sequenzer more often and therefor gonna have the chance
to get better stuff. When it comes to rings, they might even have a simple system that each time you
pass a certain level you do get a better item.

By using a system like this it will actualy look more random than what a poor written system that do
use randomness will do.
This type of system can be expanded even more to make it more complex, lets say they use professional
standings progress to control when we have a section where loot is lower and also to peak it at certain
parts, e.g when we are close to a new level.
Imo this is the reason why even a noob can hit a good loot, since their peak came at right time.
 
Crafting:
- xx% chance to get 25% tt-return near success
- xx% chance to get 50% tt-return near success
- xx% chance to get 90% tt-return near success
- xx% chance to get 105% TT-return success
- x% chance to get times 2 multiplier
- 0,xx% chance to get times 5 multiplier
- 0,xx% chance to get times 10 multiplier
- 0,0xx% chance to get times 20 multiplier
and so on

that's random....
 
Crafting:
- xx% chance to get 25% tt-return near success
- xx% chance to get 50% tt-return near success
- xx% chance to get 90% tt-return near success
- xx% chance to get 105% TT-return success
- x% chance to get times 2 multiplier
- 0,xx% chance to get times 5 multiplier
- 0,xx% chance to get times 10 multiplier
- 0,0xx% chance to get times 20 multiplier
and so on

that's random....
If you now knows that it is random, how do they handle it from initiate to payout?
EDIT: No need to explain in detail ofc, but more in as a concept.
 
If you now knows that it is random, how do they handle it from initiate to payout?
EDIT: No need to explain in detail ofc, but more in as a concept.

in my games i simply use a random integer number and if its smaller than 1 you get the rarest payout, smaller than 10 and higher than 1 a little bit worse payout, smaller than 100 but higher than 10 a lot worse payout etc. etc. typical chance based. thats basically as simple as it gets. with more randomization you can multiply values with clock time or seconds or whatever you want. but theres not really the need to make it complicated.
but this is not chance based in EU. cos its this wave crap. total bullshit and unfair. chance based is fair for everyone.
 
in my games i simply use a random integer number and if its smaller than 1 you get the rarest payout, smaller than 10 and higher than 1 a little bit worse payout, smaller than 100 but higher than 10 a lot worse payout etc. etc. typical chance based. thats basically as simple as it gets. with more randomization you can multiply values with clock time or seconds or whatever you want. but theres not really the need to make it complicated.
but this is not chance based in EU. cos its this wave crap. total bullshit and unfair. chance based is fair for everyone.

More fair but also illegal.
 
More fair but also illegal.

illegal is a strong word. something is just illegal if its proven in front of a judge. its a greyzone. there would need to be someone who controls MAs source code AND understands it completely to be able to judge if its illegal or not. and i seriously doubt that this has happened and im quite sure that MA doesnt want this to happen so they remove all of the aspects of the game that point out too heavily that this game is a heavy gamble.
 
illegal is a strong word. something is just illegal if its proven in front of a judge. its a greyzone. there would need to be someone who controls MAs source code AND understands it completely to be able to judge if its illegal or not. and i seriously doubt that this has happened and im quite sure that MA doesnt want this to happen so they remove all of the aspects of the game that point out too heavily that this game is a heavy gamble.

Nope they have done it more vague actually. It is if the impression is randomness that
are important.
So it is ok to have some sort of randomness in some elements, but not as main feature
as long as the impression isn't so.

As my concept in this thread is the oposite, that it can look a lot like randomness even
if it has zero of that, its also easy for developer to show authority how basics works.
Then it will be more obvious that it is lack of understanding rather than randomness that makes
people think it is about randomness but it isn't, and therefor they are not classified as
gambling due to that.
 
MA's statement to ban gambling in-game seems to prove you right. (Official Policy Regarding Participant-Organized Events)

Such official policy proves that there are no monkeys inside the computer rolling the dice for us.

It would be mathematical formulas based on the attributes and skills of the avatars, as well as variables of the professions, planets, creatures, minerals and items; that generate cycles and "luck" within the game.

By other hand, in my opinion the EULA 2.7 (& 2.3) article regards cheating in the game confirms that there exists a loot distribution algorithm (a "luck" algorithm) that would not based in randomize techniques, and which should not be exposed through reverse engineering using a third party software that later allows you to apply predictive engineering to win money in a sustained way.

In such a way that what ever you believe about the game will always remain only in the field of theories.

I also wish you luck in the search for that relationship between the cycles of luck of the planets, of the professions, of the places where a player will carry out the activity and of the skills and attributes of his avatar.

Greetings :wtg:
 
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Such official policy proves that there are no monkeys inside the computer rolling the dice for us.
It actually proves nothing technical, only that laws are getting more and more obnoxious and for the company toeing the line ever more tricky. Even a simulation based on natural laws (randomness on quantum level, probability function, entropy) would be getting in hot water. Aren't most of us (supposed to be) living in a democracy? Then a majority must want it this way.
 
It actually proves nothing technical, only that laws are getting more and more obnoxious and for the company toeing the line ever more tricky. Even a simulation based on natural laws (randomness on quantum level, probability function, entropy) would be getting in hot water. Aren't most of us (supposed to be) living in a democracy? Then a majority must want it this way.

Quite often these kind of laws are there to protect those with gambling addiction.
Vast majority can handle it, and a small group can't. Still they create laws to protect
this small group, as if they don't find other ways to please their addiciton. :rolleyes:
 
Quite often these kind of laws are there to protect those with gambling addiction.

and who protects those with gamling addictions in EU? in my humble opinion, these events are probably less of a problem than some playing behaviours...
 
and who protects those with gamling addictions in EU? in my humble opinion, these events are probably less of a problem than some playing behaviours...

Same law, in a mediocre attempt. At least those who are located in Sweden, thats the reason
why we can't buy keys for strongboxes. ;)
 
<- still wait mindark give more info about minning skills to see if entropia worth my time or just RNG or WAVE surf game
 
Some more thoughts:
(Look at this in a concept p.o.v instead of exact details)

Sample size

Instead of what some think that we need to loot something X amount of times, it might be so that
its about cycle a full round of this skill combo list to see right amount of payouts.
Certain parts might be static, just as an example lets say attributes show up at same positions.
There might be certain positions in this list that have some extra impact on loot, that are either
dynamic or static to when they do so, so its up to us to create values that are maxed just at
these points.
If we have big differences between highest and lowest value in this combo, chance is that we miss
decent payouts more often compared to a player who are more or less maxed in what can be
be maxed.



Crafting

Slider between Condition and Quantity probably change combo curve of skills, and lower
majority and raise some few. Same here its up to us to max out values at these peaks to get
a better chance to a return.



Looter prof stands

Have they always been there but in the shadows? ;) Should explain certain players
actions through the years... and MAs.
 
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Each skill stops at 10k? TIL

Still just a theory, but long ago the influence a skill had on prof stands were capped
at 10k, and I believe this is still the case for what each skill do for interactions.
As I mentioned, open skill UI and look at Rank column, it stops filling up after
you pass 10k.
 
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