Suggestion: Crafting 3.0

start all over again,
look for every part that excist ingame and see if you can approach what you do in a new way.

now you're assuming i haven't done that already, like i said, only your ego here in your post.

Any further discussion with you in pointless, because you're so stubbornly holding onto your theory to be true even when it has already been proven wrong numerous times. If something works for you, but not for others, then your theory simply is wrong.

Crafting needs to change, simple as that. Why are you so desperately trying to hold onto a system/design that's just bad for the game?
 
Last edited:
I refer to the extreme 10k-30k daily crafts AtomicStorm mentioned to be "allowed" to have an opinion about the matter. I do agree that someone with close to zero crafting experience in the current system won't contribute much. But why exclude small, but regular crafters?

because of people like Joat? Doing a few crafts here and there and then he thinks he's an expert on crafting and would know the system better than people who do thousand+crafts each day (my average amount of crafts a day in the last year i played was about 2k)... Gathering a lot of data when doing 700k clicks in a year.
 
It's quite bad. Pretty common craft runs are between 85-90% with maxed bps. Significantly worse with low QR, which takes time. The multis are not there.

Wow that's pretty good. :wtg:

I think I'll start crafting more now, because my Hunt runs are often way below this whith very good DPP and pretty nice effi..

Even most of my Mining runs are below this.

You happy crafters !.. :ahh:

[Removed]
 
Last edited:
Wow that's pretty good. :wtg:

I think I'll start crafting more now, because my Hunt runs are often way below this whith very good DPS and pretty nice effi..

the difference is, in hunting you get bonus-shrapnell and multipliers pretty often to boost your returns to high levels rather quickly. That's something that doesn't exist on crafting.
 
there difference is, in hunting you get bonus-shrapnell and multipliers pretty often to boost your returns to high levels rather quickly. That's something that doesn't exist on crafting.

My returns are way below this, I didn't have those "multiplier" you talk about for like 2 years hunting everyday.

By the way "multiplier" don't means anything, be precise please.
Every single loot you get is a multiplier of the click cost.
Even if you click 2 PED and get 0.5 back, it's a x0.25 multiplier..

Go try hunt/mining for 1 year full days and come back here to tell us Craft is worse than everything else ingame.. :rolleyes:

[Removed]

You said you want to become the number 1 crafter ingame, but you want this for almost free, right ?

Please be serious, Craft is too difficult for you ? Stop it ! :eureka:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
now you're assuming i haven't done that already, like i said, only your ego here in your post.

Any further discussion with you in pointless, because you're so stubbornly holding onto your theory to be true even when it has already been proven wrong numerous times. If something works for you, but not for others, then your theory simply is wrong.

Crafting needs to change, simple as that. Why are you so desperately trying to hold onto a system/design that's just bad for the game?

Quite simple, too many times its not the system that is wrong but the players, but when it
comes to crafting, yes there are for sure issues, but question here is if it is due to a faulty
system or a faulty concept, or is it both?

No one can get a result that works if it isn't possible in the system. Has zero to do with a theory.
It's enough that one player can get it to work because that is only possible when you use the
system in right way. So once again, are there any dedicated crafter that it do work for?
Ofc in average in a longer time period, since there are ups and downs on regular basis.
If not then its obvious that crafting doesn't work properly as system, but if there are, its up to
the rest to decide what to do to make it work.

So please stop look at this as critic against you, or whatever way you do look at it, this has
really nothing to do with you as individual, because I couldn't care less about you.
That doesn't mean I don't hope this will get solved in one way another so you do get
a better experience in crafting.
This is about looking at things in general, and to understand that if it works for some few, then
it isn't the system that is wrong. As example, for those that it doesn't work properly, do they
have experience enough, and are they observant enough to know when the ups and downs
use to come?
 
My returns are way below this, I didn't have those "multiplier" you talk about for like 2 years hunting everyday.

By the way "multiplier" don't means anything, be precise please.
Every single loot you get is a multiplier of the click cost.
Even if you click 2 PED and get 0.5 back, it's a x0.25 multiplier..

Go try hunt/mining for 1 year full days and come back here to tell us Craft is worse than everything else ingame.. :rolleyes:

during my hunting the longest streak with neither multiplier nor bonus shrapnell was about 300 kills.
my longest streak on crafting without multiplier was about 4k crafts.

If crafting would have multipliers as frequently as hunting does have them and the bonus shrapnell, then this thread would not exist :rolleyes:

oh and btw, i didn't took me an insane 400k kills to get above 91% TT-return on hunting like it did on crafting the last time.

Hunting is designed the best atm.

Multiplier means ofc >1,5
 
Last edited:
the difference is, in hunting you get bonus-shrapnell and multipliers pretty often to boost your returns to high levels rather quickly. That's something that doesn't exist on crafting.

Im sorry but i am going to jump in here and say your wrong. You get as people call booster blueprints and they do normally bring you to a higher tt if you click or sell them.
 
You get as people call booster blueprints and they do normally bring you to a higher tt if you click or sell them.

Nope, that doesn't work for 2 reasons:
1.) many crafts can't drop booster blueprints at all.
2.) and for the ones that can booster BPs are much rarer than bonus shrapnells are.
 
Nope, that doesn't work for 2 reasons:
1.) many crafts can't drop booster blueprints at all.
2.) and for the ones that can booster BPs are much rarer than bonus shrapnells are.

You only need 1 or 2 over every 10k ped cycled to boost you a bit. Dunno what they drop on and what not but I always find small craft runs you just get hammered so I plan for big ones all in one go now.
 
You only need 1 or 2 over every 10k ped cycled to boost you a bit. Dunno what they drop on and what not but I always find small craft runs you just get hammered so I plan for big ones all in one go now.

component has no booster BPs.
furniture has booster BPs, but those are pretty low tt per click (0,18-3,5 PED) and only small multiplier (1,5-2,5), so they don't make much of a difference in terms of tt-returns, especially when also crafting furniture that is 30 PED TT per click.
Attachments have boost BPs, which have okay boost-factor and tt per click, but then, if you're not an attachment crafter, that doesn't help.
Haven't looted boosted BPs on armor yet, so maybe there are none or just at a higher level, which doesn't help the tt-return on lower level crafts.
and so on.

The booster BP doesn't really work out for TT-return boosting.

Apart from that, if the boosted BP is an item which nobody buys, then you basically trade money loss from bad tt-return for money loss for mu, same applies if you buy the booster BP. Because you will have to buy materials for MU but get nothing you could sell for MU.

For some crafts it's not feasible to do a 5000+ click craft run, as it may take 100+ years to sell all the produced items.

The issue with crafting, that causes the bad returns, is the low base tt-return (~79%) and that you may go without multipliers for several hundreds or even thousands of crafts. The absence of multipliers combined with the low base tt-return is just bad.

Just overhaul the crafting returns/volatility, that's all that's needed atm.
 
Last edited:
Just overhaul the crafting returns/volatility, that's all that's needed atm.

I just cant see them doing that not when you have hunting profession which can cost you thousands in hunting gear to profit same in mining setups. Volatility is their for a reason otherwise people who do top end crafting would not bother if theirs no mu etc.
 
I just cant see them doing that not when you have hunting profession which can cost you thousands in hunting gear to profit same in mining setups.

no clue what this has to do with this whole topic. (edit to this: a couple high end QR 100 BPs can cost several thousands as well)

Volatility is their for a reason otherwise people who do top end crafting would not bother if theirs no mu etc.
and what would that reason be? To drive players away from the game? That's all the bad return does.
The MU depends on supply vs. demand and what the buyer is willing to pay, not TT-return. Just because you get worse return, buyers won't be willing to pay more for the item.
 
Last edited:
It's quite bad. Pretty common craft runs are between 85-90% with maxed bps. Significantly worse with low QR, which takes time. The multis are not there.

even with multis it can be pretty bad/mediocre, i just had a 143 clicks run with 2 times 10 multis that barely made it to 90% tt-return.... even multis aren't a garantuee that the run is gonna be good....

have you seen any times 100, 250, 500 multis over the past 2 years? All i've had was a times 1000 and several times 2-50.
 
Last edited:
component has no booster BPs.
furniture has booster BPs, but those are pretty low tt per click (0,18-3,5 PED) and only small multiplier (1,5-2,5), so they don't make much of a difference in terms of tt-returns, especially when also crafting furniture that is 30 PED TT per click.
Attachments have boost BPs, which have okay boost-factor and tt per click, but then, if you're not an attachment crafter, that doesn't help.
Haven't looted boosted BPs on armor yet, so maybe there are none or just at a higher level, which doesn't help the tt-return on lower level crafts.
and so on.

The booster BP doesn't really work out for TT-return boosting.

Apart from that, if the boosted BP is an item which nobody buys, then you basically trade money loss from bad tt-return for money loss for mu, same applies if you buy the booster BP. Because you will have to buy materials for MU but get nothing you could sell for MU.

For some crafts it's not feasible to do a 5000+ click craft run, as it may take 100+ years to sell all the produced items.

The issue with crafting, that causes the bad returns, is the low base tt-return (~79%) and that you may go without multipliers for several hundreds or even thousands of crafts. The absence of multipliers combined with the low base tt-return is just bad.

Just overhaul the crafting returns/volatility, that's all that's needed atm.

Some things here I agree with and others I don't...

First of all, most of the 'boosted' blueprints out there are not worth it, only a few of them, mostly under attachments and a few under tools. Yes there's lots of Armor BPs that appear to be 'boosted;, for example Orca, Predator, Luna, Sema, Serum and Infiltrator, but the boost seems to be insignificant for the most part. Some of these require 'impossible' ingredients with such high markup that it makes the boost seem totally irrelevant. For example to make an Infiltrator Harness you need 6 ped of GeoTrek Super Alloy EnBolts at ~350% if you can find someone that has the BP and is willing to make them for you. In the end you'd have to sell it for over 200% to break even and Infiltrator is such a niche that there is very little demand for it, especially at those prices.

For some crafts it's not feasible to do a 5000+ click craft run, as it may take 100+ years to sell all the produced items.

I agree with this and it's something I have thought about. I think the only solution to this problem would be to have blueprints with 100% chance of success and put the focus (or challenge) on acquiring or creating the required ingredients for 1 click, in other words just make it very challenging to obtain or make the ingredients in the BP list and in that way restrict the number of items that can be generated. This eliminates the inevitable heart break of working really hard (and paying a lot of PED) to acquire the needed ingredients only to end up still without an item after 11 clicks (as has happened to me on numerous occasions).

Let me give an example of such a thing (I will stick to armor since it's what I know best):

Let's say a new Armor set is introduced, let's call it eMINE II (M). The ingredient lists could read as follows:

eMINE II Harness (M)
1 x eMINE PG/T (M,L)
2 x AP-54 Shrapnel (L)
2 x Moonshine plate 2 (L)
1000 x Open Source Code
200 x Graphene Polymer
4 x DSEC Seeker Amplifier 2 (L)
9 x TerraMaster 2 (L)
10 x ROCTEC M1-LF Finder (L)
2 x Xeremite Ingot

This list is made up of 2,134 PED worth of items. This is for the Harness only so repeated 7 times should make the set base cost 15k PED but that doesn't take into account any markup or cost to actually craft these items. And as you can see here there would be a great number of resources affected (I'm not going to list them all but basically there's lots of stuff from Ark, RT and Monria in there as well which is required to make the mining equipment...). There's really a bit of everything in there: looted items and crafted items which require a lot of different mined resources and since this armor set is intended for miners, all the ingredients actually do make sense. You could use different Shrapnel AP plates for the different parts, this would give these plates a purpose since right now there's just no other use for them other than against rocket launchers in PvP, which doesn't really amount to much demand at all. So for the Helmet, maybe use the AP-36 Shrapnel plates, for the Arms, use the AP-42 Shrapnel plates, etc... The one ingredient here which puts this whole upgrade in MA's control is Xeremite so if they change their mind and decide to discontinue this armor upgrade they can stop Xeremite from dropping. Seems the other items made using Xeremite aren't really worth it right now so that wouldn't really cause too much harm to the game.

A set of Armor for miners I think should be really easy to do as it just has a large amount of Shrap which is only useful in PvP situations really. But it should also have a decent amount of Burn/Pen as guns are usually the weapon of choice for Player Killers. Since Calypso doesn't really have a mid-range Robot armor yet anyway, this could easily become that set. Give it say 33 Burn and 35 Pen, 45 Shrap and a small amount of Impact, Cut and Stab (~10) and voila, you got yourself something worth the hassle of collecting all this stuff.

As I researched this however it dawned on me that MindArk's answer to this is the upgrade system which is already in place. That system functions like a mission system which demands a list of ingredients and spits out an item as reward. It never fails, i.e. you always have 100% success guaranteed.

For example, when you want to upgrade a part of Boar to Adjusted Boar, you need some looted items (Nano Adjusters and Boar armor part), some crafted items (Hardened Foil and Renegade (L) part) and it spits out the item you are trying to get without fail.

So to try to create Blueprints that have a 100% success chance is probably not something that can easily be done as it may require a complete overhaul of the loot system/engine and as such, I would say just keep with the upgrade mission system, I think that's working fine. It sends people out to the field to hunt for stuff and it sends people to the crafting machine to make things, which in turn send people out to mine for resources, so has the same effect on the economy as a whole. The only difference is you don't need skills to upgrade something, but you often do need a crafter with skills to make some of these ingredients (for example upgrading Angel armor requires Enhanced Talytic Converters and crafted Ghost (L) armor parts which both require a decent amount of skills to make), so it ends up being one and the same really.

Legends
 
PS: the eMINE II (M) armor set should have a buff which is great for miners and bad for hunters, to avoid the 2 competing for the same set. Like for example add a mining profession skill gain buff and a looter profession skill gain debuff (say -15% skinning/reclaiming/scourging skill gain). But I think that as minimum, a set like this should have a faster excavation buff, say 100% faster, so you are done drilling and out of there asap.
 
Last edited:
I agree with this and it's something I have thought about. I think the only solution to this problem would be to have blueprints with 100% chance of success and put the focus (or challenge) on acquiring or creating the required ingredients for 1 click, in other words just make it very challenging to obtain or make the ingredients in the BP list and in that way restrict the number of items that can be generated. This eliminates the inevitable heart break of working really hard (and paying a lot of PED) to acquire the needed ingredients only to end up still without an item after 11 clicks (as has happened to me on numerous occasions).

It was about existing slow selling items. Making them far more expensive would just kill those crafts even when it's 100% success... no point in crafting items that sells for TT+25 when the costs for materials are TT+100 or even higher.

Just fix the tt-return issue. Maybe make rare ressources more common, this will benefit miners/hunters (less low MU loot, more higher MU loot) and crafters (cheaper to make items > more sales > more crafting). No need to reinvent the wheel.
 
It was about existing slow selling items. Making them far more expensive would just kill those crafts even when it's 100% success... no point in crafting items that sells for TT+25 when the costs for materials are TT+100 or even higher.

Just fix the tt-return issue. Maybe make rare ressources more common, this will benefit miners/hunters (less low MU loot, more higher MU loot) and crafters (cheaper to make items > more sales > more crafting). No need to reinvent the wheel.

Yeah but the problem I see is that the market gets flooded with items and then there's not enough players to use them all. This increased supply causes the market to collapse, crafters have no choice to sell them at a loss if they wish to be able to continue to cycle ped (play the game).

If all you want to do is stand at a crafting machine all day making useless crap that you are just going to end up tt'ing, that's already been fixed:

1. Craft Attachment Gizmo 1-2-3-4 for the high mu (40 ped / click) boosted BPs that they drop
2. Craft Armor Gizmo 4-5-6 for AP-xx Impact plate BPs with values of up to 20-25 ped / click

TT all your Tech Gizmo 6 and start over with Attachment Gizmo 1.

You will need about 20k PED card for this but you can do this forever, the system will always return enough blueprints for you to sell and make up the losses. Check my Entropia Life if you don't believe me. Also check lethal jewgirl saint and Lucas Ferroll Bo and many others....
 
Yeah but the problem I see is that the market gets flooded with items and then there's not enough players to use them all. This increased supply causes the market to collapse, crafters have no choice to sell them at a loss if they wish to be able to continue to cycle ped (play the game).

when i was talking about making the materials more common, i didn't have a times 10 increase in mind, but something like times 1,25-2... a bit more common but not to the point that some flooding occurs.

Over the past 4 days i was shouting for firn boards for some carpentry and i only got enough boards for 2 clicks. Granted, another crafter did beat me to it in auction. Atm the output of those boards seem to be <9 a day, could also have been old stock that got sold, and the BPs need 1-5 or even more per click. And that's not the first time i had to cancel a craft, because 1 material was missing...
 
Last edited:
h9lkswsf.jpg


83,64% TT-return , something low like that is sadly the norm and bigger follow-up multis to make up for those bad runs are usually missing :mad:

Shit like that happens, when you strap the multiplier sizes and frequences balanced around bonus-shrapnell onto a profession which can't give bonus shrapnell...

Edit: leftover materials used on another craft 76,8% TT-return
x7b2t5uo.jpg


Edit2: ofc it had to give me bigger multis when i make screenshots xD
mbj47dkx.jpg


Puts the total tt-return for those 3 runs combined to 92,6%.
 
Last edited:
Hunters and miners can use their stuff without TT-return penalty once they are maxed out on the skill side.
We crafter will still suffer TT-return penalty once we got the skill, as the QR may be still 1.
This penalty for crafters should get removed to make it fair.

that's how it currently is:
max skill + QR1 SIB: returns are as low as 64%
max skill + QR100 SIB: returns are as low as 78%

crafting needs an overhaul.

also grinding for higher BPs is just not worth it. the item crafted with level VII BP may sell for 1000% MU at material costs of 105% MU, but it may take take 10-20k PED turnover @78% TT-return just to get 20 clicks of that BP, and then all of those may just be fails/near successes. The high costs while eventually not getting a single success means it's not worth it.

and since it's not worth grinding up to level VII (or even higher) BPs, it's not worth buying materials for the level VII craft, the IV crafts to get the VII BP and neither is it worth buying the materials for the level I to grind the IV BP.

I'm under the impression you do not want us to craft.
 
Last edited:
another crafting run, QR 100 non-SIB.
413 clicks another 74,25% TT-return and another EP recycle IV BP

7b14bd83f5bf5c10f29f09d9f52ebbd3.jpg
 
Last edited:
Just a note that hunters still get the tt-return penalty once they are maxed out on the skill side...:laugh:
 
35% success is normal correct? you just didn't get globals. click ep recycle next time.

yeah, 35-39% SR is normal. so you must be a gambler these days? -.-

and the worst thing is, between the other 413 clicks bad tt-return run and that screenshotted run, i did another craft with a 1,2k click run which was also bad tt-return...
 
Last edited:
emxk75np.jpg


and a small run with rather big multiplier (for that click size)...
 
yeah, 35-39% SR is normal. so you must be a gambler these days? -.-

and the worst thing is, between the other 413 clicks bad tt-return run and that screenshotted run, i did another craft with a 1,2k click run which was also bad tt-return...

I was getting on average with massive runs getting 41 to 42.5% on tech gizmo 8 wasn't full qr either, add on the minis with high amounts of gizmo 8 your most likely looking at 44%. Did see same % on items but small runs its so pot luck with success sometimes you get really good over 50% others just complete bust in terms of mu in and out.
 
I was getting on average with massive runs getting 41 to 42.5% on tech gizmo 8 wasn't full qr either, add on the minis with high amounts of gizmo 8 your most likely looking at 44%.

So do Gizmos have a slight SR buff? :confused:
Also Gizmos having 41 to 42.5% SR won't solve the L BP issue, like when getting 20 fails/near successes in a row, then it's all cost but nothing to sell...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top