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  1. #1

    Massive WTF on shares fee changes!

    I've just been going through my transaction history and there has been another change to the calculations when selling shares! This seems to have been unannounced at around the end of March.

    Previously, you added a sales order and in a separate line a fee was charged. If shares sold, there were 2 new lines, sell holdings and edit sell order, both showing the same sales value of the sold shares and a new balance.
    At the end of the sales period, any unsold shares and unused fees were returned (minus a minimum of 25 pecs flat fee).

    Now, if some shares sell, the two lines are different. There is a sell holdings and edit sell order, as before, but the edit sell order shows fees removed according to the number of shares sold (and initially another 25 pecs it seems). Two balances are shown now, not just one: the main balance going up (edit: of CPshares account), and some internal balance of the fees.
    Example: you add a sell order for 100 shares that initially charges say, 4.70 peds. If no shares sell, you'll get 4.45 peds back at the end. BUT, if someone buys 2 shares, an additional 25 pecs is charged for the individual sale - your individual balance is recorded as 4.20 peds.
    The 25 pecs is charged EVERY time someone buys - even if 1 share! [edit: I imagine that first sale would show 4.20 peds regardless of whether someone buys 1-10 shares, but worst is just buying one. I imagine the next balance would usually show 3.95, but it hasn't happened to me yet. Ah, it has now, balance going down by 25 pecs each time 1,2,3,4,5 etc are sold.]

    I've not got an example of the internal balance running to zero - maybe others have, which is partly why I'm explaining this here.

    The bottom line is that sellers cannot NOT sell in ones and two, whatever, so there may be a charge of 25 pecs PER SHARE that way, depending on buyers.
    Now I know that some real stock markets also charge fees for partial execution of orders, but with the low volumes here that is ridiculous! There is also the matter of NOT INFORMING us of this! -> one not happy bunny!

    Please check your transactions people and shed more light on this, ty!
    Last edited by jetsina; 05-24-2020 at 16:03.

  2. #2
    Slayer GeorgeSkywalker's Avatar
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    Could this be a bug? Seems to me such a change would be in vu notes. So leads me to think its a bug

    Anyone filed a support case?

  3. #3
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    I have been a buy-and-hold investor but some day I will probably sell some shares. These fees seem expensive.

  4. #4
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    I sold several CP shares on 5/10. If this changed, it was after that as I was not charged per share.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    I sold several CP shares on 5/10. If this changed, it was after that as I was not charged per share.
    Not per share, but per purchase event by someone buying. When you put in the sell offer you are charged an initial amount (which is returned minus 25 pecs if noone buys). But, if people buy one at a time, or two or three, then you too get charged 25 pecs each time from that initial amount. If you were lucky and sold your batch in one or two 'events', then you'd hardly notice.
    There is some pretty stupid logic which comes as a consequence, but I won't go into that now. What I'd like to see first is if anyone else has this showing up as described, and if anyone has been unlucky enough to even run down the internal 'account', what happens then? Do the next shares to sell do so at no fee, or does your pedcard get targeted?

    It may be this is not planned, but I can clearly see a change in the transaction history rows, as described above. I'd like to home in on determined facts before any direct support action, though.

    Edit: If you have a buyer lined up and your sell offer is the currently lowest, then that trade should go through in one go. BIG PROBLEM: in this kind of market you are not supposed to know the other participant, as this is where market manipulation begins! Not good to even start going down that line of thinking. MA, please correct the changes made before the end of March! (31st March is first day this new format shows for me at least. How far back can others go please on this?)
    Last edited by jetsina; 05-24-2020 at 16:13.

  6. #6
    Short update: I put in a sales offer of just a few shares that cost below 50 pecs in expected fees. One single share sold before a new lower offer was added by someone. My fees balance reduced itself to zero! If no more shares of that little batch can sell in the next week, then I'll have been charged 50 pecs to sell one share, currently at 18.xx peds. And don't forget the buyer also pays fees now!
    Maybe we need a 'market maker' role standing at Twins, gathering buy orders@boxes, for execution at the top of every hour...
    Ah, I forgot - we cannot trade shares P2P, so back to the drawing board, which is maybe what MA should be doing on this!
    (Oh, and to compare with a better trade, selling 100 shares in one go would only cost around 4.6 peds right now, but we have no power over what happens...)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsina View Post
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    Short update: I put in a sales offer of just a few shares that cost below 50 pecs in expected fees. One single share sold before a new lower offer was added by someone. My fees balance reduced itself to zero! If no more shares of that little batch can sell in the next week, then I'll have been charged 50 pecs to sell one share, currently at 18.xx peds. And don't forget the buyer also pays fees now!
    Maybe we need a 'market maker' role standing at Twins, gathering buy orders@boxes, for execution at the top of every hour...
    Ah, I forgot - we cannot trade shares P2P, so back to the drawing board, which is maybe what MA should be doing on this!
    (Oh, and to compare with a better trade, selling 100 shares in one go would only cost around 4.6 peds right now, but we have no power over what happens...)
    I noticed this aswell some time ago already and this definetly affect alot on CP shares ROI when the fees are that high. After I noticed this i've been selling my shares because fees are just to much and when someone buys only 1 share i've been always charged that 0.25. At some point i tought people do this in purpose lol. Im sure everyone can make their own calculations how much this changes things.

  8. #8
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    I have spoken to the dev team about this, and they tell me that there has been no change to the actual fees related to trading shares. The only thing that has changed is that the log now shows the transaction fee per sale, while previously it did not. This change occurred in release 17.1.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig|MindArk View Post
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    I have spoken to the dev team about this, and they tell me that there has been no change to the actual fees related to trading shares. The only thing that has changed is that the log now shows the transaction fee per sale, while previously it did not. This change occurred in release 17.1.
    so the hidden price was always there, but now we see it... hmmm... imagine same thing goes on in other transactions elsewhere in the game that folks don't see as well? Cyrene falsely advertised cost of the zyn campfire... and that's just one small example of where the false advertising costs start... It's subtle and hidden all over the place if you look close enough. Peds are 10 per dollar until you start figuring in bank fees, etc. Nickel and Dime you to death.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig|MindArk View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have spoken to the dev team about this, and they tell me that there has been no change to the actual fees related to trading shares. The only thing that has changed is that the log now shows the transaction fee per sale, while previously it did not. This change occurred in release 17.1.
    Thank you very much for the passing on, plus returning the reply to us!
    Ok, it's a deeper transaction fee counter that we can now see per sale, but could only see at the start and end before. I don't think I have any examples personally from pre 17.1 (edit: of the 'problem'). It is more transparent now.

    For other readers, my little test now showed my internal fee account got reduced to zero as soon as the first share sold, and stayed at zero as the rest of the batch sold in one go later on. So in this particular test what I paid in fees overall was what I expected, because all the batch sold. But beware if you want to sell a lot of shares in one sell order and only some sell in the 7 days in low numbers.

    What has NOT been solved (or I've not seen an answer to this), is the BUYING bug/problem, where shares will be bought at a higher price than you agree to if the shares you planned to buy (and the system calculates costs for you) get bought in the seconds before you accept. Also, if you reduce the bid limit in that window, the system calulates the fees based on that but goes ahead and buys whatever is actually available it seems.
    I don't know how I can 'plan' to catch the first part of this bug again on my own, but it could be recreated in a test environment. I guess the second part could be seen by anyone trying to buy, but testing in the live environment means real buying when you might not really want to. Still, I'm flagging it up again. If you can help again, or direct me to a reply, thank you.

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