Legal environment for online gambling

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Geralt

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tyires tyirepl tyirepl
I would like to ask you how is it possible that EP clicking is still legal in some countries which banned on-line and stationary casinos. Entropia Universe is basically half-legal, shady platform for gambling using "EP crafting" as an excuse.
In casino you just buy tokens and go play on a slot machine. EU feels just the same. Tokens are Nanocubes, slot machine is "crafting machine". In casinos you have fixed return rate, in EU casino return rate is minimally dependent on your "skills".

My question is: How is it still possible in some countries to craft EP in such anti-casino legal environment? Best examples in my opinion would be Poland and Luxembourg. You see, online gambling there is, except sport betting, is practically banned. It is so banned that even GTA Online virtual casino is not available in those countries!

Do you feel what I want to express? You cant use virtual casino with 100% virtual no-real-value money but at the same time you can log in to Entropia, deposit 500 USD and loose it in no time clicking EP IV.

EU is still a niche and wants to stay in the shadows so governments of those countries do not look deeply into their platform. But when those countries will notice what is going on in this "game" it will ruin MA financially very fast because EP IV gambling is vast part of their income.

This GTA Online - EU comparison hits me hard! It's unbeliveble!
 
Stupid thread.

When you go to Casino what can you do for free ?
In EU you can play for free and even be very sucsessful .

EU is not Casino .

Nobody push you doing EPS
 
i honestly dont see how this game will survive the big gaming gambling ban that is going around lately. i suppose in 3 to 5 years (tops) this is over. and still people invest in things which need 10 years to return your investment xD

investing in this game is a huge gamble. far bigger than cryptocurrencies with a far lower payout. i dont get why anyone would do it... i mean just buy a staking coin and depo the profits. you make so much more money with it... its just unbelievable
 
Stupid thread.

When you go to Casino what can you do for free ?
In EU you can play for free and even be very sucsessful .

EU is not Casino .

Nobody push you doing EPS

i was in a casino and got a free drink and a free "tutorial" game which took about an hour time and was explaining all the different games and stuff including their chances of winning and typical used strategies... so yeah. casinos are better than EU
 
i was in a casino and got a free drink and a free "tutorial" game which took about an hour time and was explaining all the different games and stuff including their chances of winning and typical used strategies... so yeah. casinos are better than EU

AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAH ha
 
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/swedish-gambling-authority.11087/
The content of this letter is not to be considered a legally binding document. The Swedish Gambling Authority has investigated the “Loot” system in Entropia Universe in journal number 13Li3786. The investigation was closed on the 30 of October 2013.

The Swedish gambling market is regulated by The Swedish lottery act (1994:1000). The general rule is that lotteries must not be arranged except by permit (Section 9, Lotteries Act). Permits may in principle only be granted to non-profit making associations whose activities are for the public benefit (Section 15, Lotteries Act), it is thus not sufficient for a permit to be granted that the proceeds of the lottery are applied for charitable purposes.

There are two possibilities for The Swedish Gambling Authority to act in cases of suspicion of crime, one is to submit to the suspect with a penalty (Vite) the second one is to notify the police. To submit the suspect with penalty it is required to that the offense has been committed within Swedish jurisdiction, this means a server is located in Sweden or the person or company that offers the lottery lives in Sweden.
It also requires an exact moment when the crime has been committed. It is, therefore, necessary to secure documentation of a Swedish player who lives in Sweden when he or her wins “Loots” in order to prove that the location of the criminal act is within the Swedish jurisdiction and that the legal person responsible for lottery is Swedish. The Swedish Gambling Authority would likely need to dedicate an employee on full-time to play in Entropia Universe before the possibility of gaining loots in Entropia Universe. It has to been proved that the actual legal person which is responsible for lottery is Swedish, in this case, MindArk and that it is not arranged by a foreign subsidiary to MindArk. This would require a thorough investigation concerning MindArks corporate structures.

Anyone may make a police report at suspicion of a criminal offense. It is likely to assume that the circumstance needs to be proven up to the level which is mentioned above in order for the Swedish court to decide on a punishment on a suspected crime. The Swedish Gambling Authority has come to the conclusion that current circumstances isn´t sufficient evidence to make a police report, if you wish to make a police report, please notice attached contact details below

Circumstances of the case Entropia Universe has been put forward for head of department in the case of how the matter should be handled. Head of operational department which is responsible for the prioritization and allocation of resources, has decided that The Swedish Gambling Authority currently does not have the opportunity to further investigate the matter with reference to the extensive resource case would take.

Polismyndigheten i Västra Götaland
Box 429
401 26 Göteborg
Sweden

Kind Regards
Josefin Jansson

LOTTERIINSPEKTIONEN

Don't think anyone's tried recently to contact them since 2013 or so, but there's been at least two attempts by the Entropia Community historically that is documented in community forums if you go back far enough... Above is the second... so... technically the gambling authority in the country Mindark resides in does not consider it gambling, at least not fully...

If you cannot get them to think otherwise you are definitely fighting an uphill battle my friend.

=======
p.s.
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/konsumentverket-se-file-a-complaint-against-mindark.22145/

regarding the police...
https://web.archive.org/web/2014071.../204800-entropia-universe-support-please.html
We are very sorry to hear about your experience. We can assure you that we will investigate your report and determine what actions need to be taken in your specific case.

Unfortunately, we can not return items or money lost due to a scam. Since all items in Entropia Universe have a real value we instead advise you to consider filing an official police report about your lost items. If the police contact us, we will cooperate with them and submit all available logs we have.
[..]
 
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Stupid thread.

When you go to Casino what can you do for free ?
In EU you can play for free and even be very sucsessful .

EU is not Casino .

Nobody push you doing EPS

I got 100 euro for free and 200 spins. In stationary I often get free drinks and snacks. Everyone can see that you are just a cheap troll. Nobody can treat you seriously when you response to an argument "mehh you stoopid eu no casino bam bam"
 
The swedish government has monopoly on gambling, and now u need a license and strict policies such as setting a "loss limit" and bank id verification et.c Mindark wouldent pay that and that resulted in the loot boxes got banned in Sweden. Government is not very reasonable here and i think the game could very well be in worst case scenario banned.
 
I got 100 euro for free and 200 spins. In stationary I often get free drinks and snacks. Everyone can see that you are just a cheap troll. Nobody can treat you seriously when you response to an argument "mehh you stoopid eu no casino bam bam"

Deposit 100 and get 100 free and 200 spins then you loose it all in a few hour because of waggering . And you are the last person in this forum i want to take me serious . I bassicly dont give a shite about you and your opinion after reading your Open post .

You are the kind of person that need mamy for simple life tasks
 
As far as I know, European regulation, especially in areas like online gambling, is no joke. If EU has been allowed to run for over 10 years, this means they have nothing on MA. People tried the bury this project so many times it's impossible to keep track, yet it's still alive and kicking, and I think this will not change in the foreseeable future. If regulation changes, then MA can adjust accordingly.

I also think that there's a more interesting part to it, but it's more on the philosophical side of things. Since regulators did not force MA to register as an online casino, what implications does this have in terms of gameplay, if at all? Does it mean that you can get back what you spend across the 3 professions TT for TT, or that you simply cannot win?
 
Government is not very reasonable here and i think the game could very well be in worst case scenario banned.

Even if that unlikely scenario occured, there would be notice given and Mindark would presumably move country. Swedish players may have to adjust their addresses accordingly.

TBH most governments are a bit preoccupied with a certain worldwide event right now, even those without a lockdown.
 
Deposit 100 and get 100 free and 200 spins then you loose it all in a few hour because of waggering . And you are the last person in this forum i want to take me serious . I bassicly dont give a shite about you and your opinion after reading your Open post .

You are the kind of person that need mamy for simple life tasks

i wonder if you bought your account? iirc you werent always a sad, grumpy troll. maybe i remember wrong though
 
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/swedish-gambling-authority.11087/


Don't think anyone's tried recently to contact them since 2013 or so, but there's been at least two attempts by the Entropia Community historically that is documented in community forums if you go back far enough... Above is the second... so... technically the gambling authority in the country Mindark resides in does not consider it gambling, at least not fully...

If you cannot get them to think otherwise you are definitely fighting an uphill battle my friend.

=======
p.s.
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/konsumentverket-se-file-a-complaint-against-mindark.22145/

regarding the police...
https://web.archive.org/web/2014071.../204800-entropia-universe-support-please.html

Would be interesting to see what you asked them, to me it looks like you asked them a leading
question about EU being illegal gambling, or about other illegal activity. Not about EU in general,
since this is not what I've got as answer those times I've asked around.
Most of my questions have been about skillbased gaming in general though, that have a system
similar to MAs RCE . ;) But sure, some was about EU in detail.
Well I guess I could find out your question to them if you asked them via mail or email,
since they have to save and store that. If they are contacted via phone, or when we visit
them at the office, they are not allowed to store that info. :silly2:
 
PS this is the guy that thread is coming from . LMAO

http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=126793

quite odd...only mining globals Jan-Feb of 2010.and joined this forum in 2016 listing that name with the only posts occuring once in May and several today.. he lists his born date in 2006... I assume that means there are alts that have activity that would provide more information as to the sudden desire to shut the game down.
 
i wonder if you bought your account? iirc you werent always a sad, grumpy troll. maybe i remember wrong though

When i play the game i just play it and enjoy it as my friends ingame can confirm . And then i came here and start reading bulshits from people like you siting behind their forum account and i bet my left nut that you dont even play the game . You are one of those writers that knew a shit about the game .

Anyway like i told already i give a shit about you or what you think . Enjoy your day
 
quite odd...only mining globals Jan-Feb of 2010.and joined this forum in 2016 listing that name with the only posts occuring once in May and several today.. he lists his born date in 2006... I assume that means there are alts that have activity that would provide more information as to the sudden desire to shut the game down.

Yea Xavier the guy is shady af . I wish more people dont care about their forum "reputation" and call the garbage as i do when i see it :)
 
i wonder if you bought your account? iirc you werent always a sad, grumpy troll. maybe i remember wrong though


I think he just spends too much time on the forums. Happens to me as well... I'm normally a pretty happy easy-going guy IRL, but then I come here and the sheer stupidity of the things I read bums me out.



"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster" - Nietzsche
 
I would like to ask you how is it possible that EP clicking is still legal in some countries which banned on-line and stationary casinos. Entropia Universe is basically half-legal, shady platform for gambling using "EP crafting" as an excuse.
In casino you just buy tokens and go play on a slot machine. EU feels just the same. Tokens are Nanocubes, slot machine is "crafting machine". In casinos you have fixed return rate, in EU casino return rate is minimally dependent on your "skills".

My question is: How is it still possible in some countries to craft EP in such anti-casino legal environment? Best examples in my opinion would be Poland and Luxembourg. You see, online gambling there is, except sport betting, is practically banned. It is so banned that even GTA Online virtual casino is not available in those countries!

Do you feel what I want to express? You cant use virtual casino with 100% virtual no-real-value money but at the same time you can log in to Entropia, deposit 500 USD and loose it in no time clicking EP IV.

EU is still a niche and wants to stay in the shadows so governments of those countries do not look deeply into their platform. But when those countries will notice what is going on in this "game" it will ruin MA financially very fast because EP IV gambling is vast part of their income.

This GTA Online - EU comparison hits me hard! It's unbeliveble!

Jesus, this question has been being beaten like a dead horse since 2005. The fact is, there is nothing you can do in a casino for free that can generate real money. In EU, there are things you can do to generate money at no cost. Obviously all you will generate is a few cents but that is what makes EU NOT a casino.
 
The way I see it, you are purchasing a product that enables you to play a game and you choose to pay for your level of entertainment. The money I have spent on this game, I have no expectation of ever seeing again.

You are investing money to do activities that you enjoy and at the same time gaining in skills, to become more proficient in these aspects, for your desired gameplay. These skills have a ped value and also have a MU value.
You can not skill up sitting at a slot machine which would enable you to get better at it over time.
You get a large majority of the peds spent back in the form of loot, that can have MU and there are missions you can do for other rewards. There is no MU loot at a casino or missions afaik.
Items having additional market value in MU, that is determined by the player base, may be a major contributing factor.
You also have the option to play for free and make a small amount of ped. If you know what you’re doing, you can sustain a certain level of game play. This is not possible at a casino.

If you are knowledgeable and play responsibly, you can do very well.

EU obviously falls within the guidelines and if ever need be, they can adapt.
If Explosive Projectiles or Metal Res had a MU of 200%, would you still call it ‘gambling’?

You are ‘investing’ in your avatar.
 
You are ‘investing’ in your avatar.

This might be one of the truest - and shortest - bits of sense here.
So much of life is about risk and potential reward, all the way to stock markets and onwards to derivatives. Until these things get classified as gambling, EU may well be safe for other reasons pointed out here.
However, some comments about casinos are also probably wrong. There are various casinos where you can get vouchers etc. when you enter. You can even ask if nobody hands you anything. Thus casinos also have a f2p element.
Some places might offer free drinks only once they see you are actively playing.
What EU has is skills that grow your ability on returns, an mu system where you can sell stuff that affects gameplay to others, plus other peculiarities.
That quote letter also didn't say EU WASN'T gambling; it basically said the resources manager couldn't justify the cost of researching EU more deeply. There would possibly also be legal precedent stuff amongst it - and grey areas cost resources if you wish to enter and fight there, even for official bodies.
 
Because Entropia Universe is not a casino there is no authority to inspect it.
They can take how many peds they what and in the end use the words "invest in your avatar".

And we are all happy about it!
 
Entropia most resembles a video poker machine.

There is a set avg return.

Optimal play on specific payout machines will allow you to raise the payout percentage to just over 100%.

Your loses can be said to earn skill in playing the game and increasing optimal play.
 
Because Entropia Universe is not a casino there is no authority to inspect it.
They can take how many peds they what and in the end use the words "invest in your avatar".

And we are all happy about it!

Where do you get your info?
They have been inspected before. There are still laws they must follow.

What instance are you referring to where MA has taken whatever peds they wanted and said it was to “invest in your avatar” and what evidence do you have to support your allegation?

We are suppose to be grown adults. Take responsibility for your own actions.
We all choose to spend real money on a video game with no insurance or guarantee.
In some cases, a ridiculous amount of money..
MA has no obligation to improve returns or provide any form of compensation at the end of the day.
You choose your actions in game, you chose to spend that ped, buy the expensive stuff, do those clicks and you can choose to take what you have out.
 
Stupid thread.

When you go to Casino what can you do for free ?
In EU you can play for free and even be very sucsessful .

EU is not Casino .

Nobody push you doing EPS

Bullshit.

Many casino's serve free drinks.
So go there and get drunk for free (if you consider getting drunk as a succesfull night :tongue2: ).
Same as entropia.

Casino's have many different tables and slot machines.
So does entropia.
You have the different hunting games (play tables) and different crafting games (slotmachines)

All use tokens, be it ammo or materials.

The only MIAN reason that entropia is still alive is the gambling aspect.
Without the gambling aspect people would be lying dead behind their PC's. All died of boredom.




So, how is this a stupid comparison?
:scratch2:



As a side note: Yes, entropia is more than just a casino. It features way more, but a large part of it can surely be compared with casinos!
 
I would like to ask you how is it possible that EP clicking is still legal in some countries which banned on-line and stationary casinos. Entropia Universe is basically half-legal, shady platform for gambling using "EP crafting" as an excuse.
In casino you just buy tokens and go play on a slot machine. EU feels just the same. Tokens are Nanocubes, slot machine is "crafting machine". In casinos you have fixed return rate, in EU casino return rate is minimally dependent on your "skills".

My question is: How is it still possible in some countries to craft EP in such anti-casino legal environment? Best examples in my opinion would be Poland and Luxembourg. You see, online gambling there is, except sport betting, is practically banned. It is so banned that even GTA Online virtual casino is not available in those countries!

Do you feel what I want to express? You cant use virtual casino with 100% virtual no-real-value money but at the same time you can log in to Entropia, deposit 500 USD and loose it in no time clicking EP IV.

EU is still a niche and wants to stay in the shadows so governments of those countries do not look deeply into their platform. But when those countries will notice what is going on in this "game" it will ruin MA financially very fast because EP IV gambling is vast part of their income.

This GTA Online - EU comparison hits me hard! It's unbeliveble!


Legally they're allowed to because you have to buy the blueprints from other players and not the TT
 
So why is the weekly casino debate thread where everybody suddenly becomes an expert on federal trade litigation not moderated away as "real world politics"?
 
When i play the game i just play it and enjoy it as my friends ingame can confirm . And then i came here and start reading bulshits from people like you siting behind their forum account and i bet my left nut that you dont even play the game . You are one of those writers that knew a shit about the game .

Anyway like i told already i give a shit about you or what you think . Enjoy your day

i probably know more about the game than you do as im actively playing since 2005.
 
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