Yog Pet Buff Issue

Dpp effects what.. ie quality loot.
Efficency should effect tt returns by 7%.

Take off your rings, loose the buffs, use an old school maxed weapon
You didnt blindly believe the system works as it should?

I rarly use (efficient) buffs, no need for that. :D
What I do expect is that MA don't explain for us how loot realy is calculated per
target, but instead give us something that is based on something over time.
As they have.
I don't stare that much at efficiency, for me value per interaction is far more
important. At least when I'm out to get as good roi as possible.

Oh well off topic I guess... lets hope this mess gets sorted asap so people can
start to play as they want again. :)
 
I don't know what to say.. I been grinding my holy ass off for past 12+ months to get to levels in skill where I can try to compete maybe once seriously in mayhem. Mainly been grinding for my own goals but now I can't even think if I want to continue playing.

I know the pills stacking thing was widely reported I also reported this but I had no idea about the extent of the exploiting involving pets now.. and all of the uber items claimed and possibly mostly by exploiters...


I don't even want to know why my support tickets are not answered either anymore all that I have invested is probably all lost

Dynamic... yea right. check my left nut.

RicK
 
It is a few hours if they go all-hands-on-deck as they should in this situation especially with most of the community unhappy about their last decision.

You have no idea how many hands MA has to put on deck, do you? Read the annual reports and stuff. If they had a couple dozen coders and testers sure. They don't. I think last number I had was 10 programmers in Sweden, and several Fivrr types who troubleshoot for commission.

A few weeks was probably optimistic.
 
No, its not. This is not a a Deathifier issue and RL law and Courts will not be succesfully applied for the suitor in a case regarding ingame punishments based on abusing bugs and breaking the eula. Even if citizen A can take citizen B to court for farting on their yard (depending on country) its not a valid usecase and the successfactor for citizen A is pretty slim.

Lets just agree to disagree in this matter :)

Oh, it's definitely enough to FILE a lawsuit. I file those all the time. I'm in litigation right now, over what was originally $3000.00, but thanks to penalties and interest it looks like I'm walking away with 14k, and my lawyer is getting 33%. People file lawsuits they don't think they can win every day, just kinda hoping to get a settlement. Corporations tend to roll over for these tactics, cause settling is cheaper than paying lawyers.
 
And the coders who do work for MA, chose to stick with MA instead of a better paying gig, because MA doesn't really practice crunch like the rest of the industry. So these 10 coders aren't gonna sit there for 16 hours a day digging through the logs either, like you'd expect elsewhere. They'll put in probably 6 hours of their 8 hour day.
 
And the coders who do work for MA, chose to stick with MA instead of a better paying gig, because MA doesn't really practice crunch like the rest of the industry. So these 10 coders aren't gonna sit there for 16 hours a day digging through the logs either, like you'd expect elsewhere. They'll put in probably 6 hours of their 8 hour day.

Probably 8 hours, most common in Sweden. Not sure they are 10 coders though, aren't they 10 in
dev team, that includes artist and so?
 
I predict MA just starts migration early and walks away for another long holiday hoping everyone forgets :wtg:
 
I predict MA just starts migration early and walks away for another long holiday hoping everyone forgets :wtg:

Half of the team probably went for vacation on thursday afternoon and are gone for 4 weeks now. :p
 
This is translated with google, not exactly perfect but I hope you can get it anyway:

During a main hearing in a criminal case, the court shall evaluate the evidence presented during the hearing to decide whether or not to prosecute the prosecution. The prosecutor has the burden of proof, which means that it is the prosecutor who must prove that the accused has committed the crime that the prosecutor claims. This involves not only a requirement to show that the accused has actually committed the act, but also that the accused, for example, had the intention to do so. In cases of theft, the prosecutor must therefore not only show that the accused, for example, has taken a commodity and passed the last payment opportunity, but also that the defendant had a deliberate intention, an intention to acquire the goods.

In criminal cases, a high standard of proof applies, which means that the evidence must be strong in order for the accused to be convicted of the accused. The accused must be convicted of a crime if it is beyond a reasonable doubt that he / she has committed the accused. This means that if there is any doubt as to whether the accused has committed the accused and these doubts have been investigated and are within the "limits of reasonableness", the evidentiary requirement is not met. If the evidence requirement were to be converted to a numerical probability number, the evidence requirement would mean a probability of about 95-98%.

In Swedish law, the principles of free trial and free trial apply. (Chapter 35, Section 1 of the Code of Procedure) This means that in principle any evidence may be presented during the main hearing and that the court is free when it evaluates the evidence presented, provided that the examination of evidence is objective and rational. For example, when the court evaluates a testimony, it must assess the credibility and reliability of the witness. Such factors that may in some cases affect the reliability of the statement are whether the witness tells about the incident in a spontaneous way, if the statement is long and detailed and if the statement has not changed from, for example, the preliminary investigation.


When it comes to be convicted for accidentally killing someone that falls under negligence and carelessness.



This is a good example when some people assume things. Not even close to reality, waaay off. :D
I would never even try to get a placement in an event, they just aren't good/fun enough to
lose a bunch of peds and end up on a honorable 47th position. No thanks. :silly2:

Nah I'm a HSP, so this "shit" I keep repeating here and there is based on that. Don't know if
you know what a HSP personality is, so I can drop some points from Psychology Today that fits EU in
general and this matter in particular:

Being perceptively gifted means you can sense and perceive things that others miss. With acute awareness, you can see beyond superficiality, grasp patterns and make linkages.

Insights, intuition, and the ability to read several layers of reality allow you to assess people and situations rapidly. You can sense incongruence and their intentions, thoughts, and feelings that are underneath the facades.

You have a sense of knowing when something is about to happen, or about other people’s inner worlds.

However, your abilities do not necessarily make life easy. You are bothered by hypocrisies and unfairness and struggle with inauthentic people and situations. You cannot help but be the one who points out the ‘elephant in the room,' but your perceptiveness may seem intimidating to those who felt ‘seen through.'

In a family situation, you may be scapegoated to be the one who carries the painful truth that is unsaid in the facade of normalcy. You may carry the role of being the ‘problematic one’, the scapegoat, or the black sheep.

You have an innate urge to push the boundaries of conformity, to question or to challenge traditions, particularly those that seem meaningless or unfair. Paired with a strong sense of justice, you are often frustrated with corruptions and inequality in the world.


I have been working with narcissists for +33yrs now, and they don't like HSPs at all since they
can't manipulate us as they often try to do with others. Same goes for people in cat1 in DKe.
This community have a bunch of these kind of people, obviously.



Ofc could this all be dealt with as negligence and carelessness, and some other alternative but they
bring new problems. If there is a lower level of crime court might not accept the case due to not
being severe enough. On the other hand, no matter what they are there for, and MA are convicted
that would not even be noticed imo, punishment isn't that hard. Sometimes it isn't that a company
worries about though, but the way to the court.

in germany a person got convicted for murder, cos he was speeding inside the city and accidentally killed someone. im quite sure his intent wansnt to kill someone. the judge said that he knew this could have happened so it was to some degree intentional, despite not being close to fully intentional.
we all know MA isnt capable of releasing a single item without bugs so we all shouldve known that this item might be broken and it couldve been an exploit.
 
Dpp effects what.. ie quality loot.
Efficency should effect tt returns by 7%.

Take off your rings, loose the buffs, use an old school maxed weapon
You didnt blindly believe the system works as it should?

dpp affecting quality of loot is a myth
 
dpp affecting quality of loot is a myth

If that's the case, you should probably report it as a bug, with a reference to the following quote:

No, DPP and Efficiency are not the same thing. DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP. Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.
 
Probably 8 hours, most common in Sweden. Not sure they are 10 coders though, aren't they 10 in
dev team, that includes artist and so?

IDK about you, but my employers don't get 8 hours of productivity out of me in an 8 hour day. I get drinks, visit the fridge, and take a dump on company time daily. I dip out a few early for lunch, show up a few late back from lunch, and I often try to leave early for the day. I bet swedish employment law allows each of them a 15 minute break for every 45 minutes staring at a screen, too.

So... They MIGHT, in a PERFECT world, get 6 hours of work out of their coders in a 8 hour shift.
 
If that's the case, you should probably report it as a bug, with a reference to the following quote:

i mean there is a connection but not as big as people make it to be. the only difference is if your dpp is so low, that you kill the mob with more than twice his health in damage then you get shrapnel only. otherwise no impact
 
IDK about you, but my employers don't get 8 hours of productivity out of me in an 8 hour day. I get drinks, visit the fridge, and take a dump on company time daily. I dip out a few early for lunch, show up a few late back from lunch, and I often try to leave early for the day. I bet swedish employment law allows each of them a 15 minute break for every 45 minutes staring at a screen, too.

So... They MIGHT, in a PERFECT world, get 6 hours of work out of their coders in a 8 hour shift.

Ofc there are different on all workplaces, but CEOs seem to have gone same course and
do about same thing lately. :D A lot of companies have cut down on staff to a degree
that overtime have increased a LOT.
Some companies are hard as hell about every minute spent on worktime, others have more
or less full freedom.
We have even different situations depending what department we are assigned at. One chief
is a dictator while the other is not serious enough. Perfect situation to create problems. :D
But no way that we waste 25% of a workday on things that are not workrelated. :)
 
When I looked at your pictures , I understood why you were so active, that the people concerned were not punished.

Jeezuz right?!! :eyecrazy:


I have never................
 
Ofc there are different on all workplaces, but CEOs seem to have gone same course and
do about same thing lately. :D A lot of companies have cut down on staff to a degree
that overtime have increased a LOT.
Some companies are hard as hell about every minute spent on worktime, others have more
or less full freedom.
We have even different situations depending what department we are assigned at. One chief
is a dictator while the other is not serious enough. Perfect situation to create problems. :D
But no way that we waste 25% of a workday on things that are not workrelated. :)

i have a second example for you. a bank is making a mistake and sends you money. this money doesnt belong to you as it was a bug / mistake / whatever from the bank so you have to give it back.
same applies here, the bug was a mistake and using it wasnt right. so all the tokens that were won due to the bug need to be taken away. if there were items bought with those token those need to be removed and if the item was sold the peds need to be removed.
thats what happens with financial mistakes, that werent your error but you still benefited from. its not a punishment, its making things right as they shouldve been from the start.
 
i have a second example for you. a bank is making a mistake and sends you money. this money doesnt belong to you as it was a bug / mistake / whatever from the bank so you have to give it back.
same applies here, the bug was a mistake and using it wasnt right. so all the tokens that were won due to the bug need to be taken away. if there were items bought with those token those need to be removed and if the item was sold the peds need to be removed.
thats what happens with financial mistakes, that werent your error but you still benefited from. its not a punishment, its making things right as they shouldve been from the start.

Yes? And? This is so obvious so whats the point? Ok, I can comment one thing about the bank thing:
You don't benefit much from getting a bunch of money into the account that aren't yours. Why?
Because you call the bank to solve it, happened to me when they were supposed to draw 110k from
my account but instead increased the amount with 110k. :D Solved in minutes though.

If you want to arguee about ethics in general you could have done it about something else... lets say having
several accounts on a forum when you only allowed to have one. ;)

Back to topic: We'll see if they might change their mind and investigate this even more, since
activity seem to drop fast now. ;) If they do, it might get solved "soon".
 
Yes? And? This is so obvious so whats the point? Ok, I can comment one thing about the bank thing:
You don't benefit much from getting a bunch of money into the account that aren't yours. Why?
Because you call the bank to solve it, happened to me when they were supposed to draw 110k from
my account but instead increased the amount with 110k. :D Solved in minutes though.

If you want to arguee about ethics in general you could have done it about something else... lets say having
several accounts on a forum when you only allowed to have one. ;)

Back to topic: We'll see if they might change their mind and investigate this even more, since
activity seem to drop fast now. ;) If they do, it might get solved "soon".

so let me get this straight. you say its obvious that they have to pay it back but in basically all your threads you say nothing should happen to them if they didnt intent to exploit? how do these two contrary points make sense to you?
 
so let me get this straight. you say its obvious that they have to pay it back but in basically all your threads you say nothing should happen to them if they didnt intent to exploit? how do these two contrary points make sense to you?

Since your logic is wrong.
In your example with the bank, its THE BANK that initiate what happens, its obviously a
mistake also.
With pets its the player that initiate what happens. Do we believe it was a mistake?
Not realy, but that is based on an assumption, not a fact. Mistake from bank is a fact.
If you want to compare the pet situation with the bank example it would be as if YOU
initiate what happens, not the bank.

Now, when you interact with the bank and get way to much money, there are some
different scenarios that could happen. You could be the type of person that have both
good ethics and know exactly what you should have on the account. It will be solved
quite fast.

Next scenario could also fit your example quite good.
This one is about you don't have that much controll over what happens but still
have good ethics. You might accidently start using money that aren't yours. At some
point bank or you will notice something is wrong. If you have been a loyal customer
this will probably be solved quite easy too, but if they have no record of you and have
no clue what type of person you are, this could lead in worst case to a criminal case or
at least get charged for negligence and carelessness, most likely the last.

Last scenario is about you have shitty ethics. You manage get money that isn't yours
and you use that asap. Same here at some point bank should find this out and its obvious
that it was with intent to get these money. This is a criminal case, but to be able to
handle it as such it must be proven that you had the intent and it was you, if they
can't prove this, it will drop down to a negligence and carelessness case probably.

One thing to remember though, and that is that there are several levels of intent.

My point here about that it must be done correctly, its about being innocent and
being banned. To prevent the shit that might happen if they do so, they must
prove that they are not innocent, not only from a legal p.o.v but also a kind of
"selt-preservation".
If they get a punishment but can keep playing, then its no bigger issue, but
the vast majority "screamed" about to perma ban them, and we are back at square one.
I hoped this was obvious but I guess not, so obviously my fault that I haven't
been more clear about that.
 
Since your logic is wrong.
In your example with the bank, its THE BANK that initiate what happens, its obviously a
mistake also.
With pets its the player that initiate what happens. Do we believe it was a mistake?
Not realy, but that is based on an assumption, not a fact. Mistake from bank is a fact.
If you want to compare the pet situation with the bank example it would be as if YOU
initiate what happens, not the bank.

Now, when you interact with the bank and get way to much money, there are some
different scenarios that could happen. You could be the type of person that have both
good ethics and know exactly what you should have on the account. It will be solved
quite fast.

Next scenario could also fit your example quite good.
This one is about you don't have that much controll over what happens but still
have good ethics. You might accidently start using money that aren't yours. At some
point bank or you will notice something is wrong. If you have been a loyal customer
this will probably be solved quite easy too, but if they have no record of you and have
no clue what type of person you are, this could lead in worst case to a criminal case or
at least get charged for negligence and carelessness, most likely the last.

Last scenario is about you have shitty ethics. You manage get money that isn't yours
and you use that asap. Same here at some point bank should find this out and its obvious
that it was with intent to get these money. This is a criminal case, but to be able to
handle it as such it must be proven that you had the intent and it was you, if they
can't prove this, it will drop down to a negligence and carelessness case probably.

One thing to remember though, and that is that there are several levels of intent.

My point here about that it must be done correctly, its about being innocent and
being banned. To prevent the shit that might happen if they do so, they must
prove that they are not innocent, not only from a legal p.o.v but also a kind of
"selt-preservation".
If they get a punishment but can keep playing, then its no bigger issue, but
the vast majority "screamed" about to perma ban them, and we are back at square one.
I hoped this was obvious but I guess not, so obviously my fault that I haven't
been more clear about that.

the player didnt initiate anything. it was Mindark who created the faulty item, which is exactly the same as a bank who creates a faulty transfer. your pov might be different here but that doesnt make it the one and only truth. its just a pov and nothing more.
 
the player didnt initiate anything. it was Mindark who created the faulty item, which is exactly the same as a bank who creates a faulty transfer. your pov might be different here but that doesnt make it the one and only truth. its just a pov and nothing more.

So the pet just jumped out of the pocket and gave a faulty buff? :D ;)

Bank creates faulty transfer, something is initiated.
MindArk created faulty pet, if it isn't spawned, nothing is initiated.
Anyway, no point to argue and discuss this I guess, we most probably don't have
all info about it. I doubt MA have said all they know.
And yes, most definitly true that there is not only one truth about this, rather the
oposite, quite vague and unclear for most of us.
Hopefully they can clear this mess up "soon". :)
 
You both need to stop this silly back and forth. All you are going to do is get this thread locked.
Give it a rest and take it to personal PM's if you need to argue.

Don't you worry, we are still on the track. :D :p
This thread should have been locked already after the OP.
 
bump for those who have been hiding under a rock but now due to down time are looking at forums :)
 
#Blank post Starts.

I read first 4 pages of this thread. Blank as :shots: as always.

#Blank post ends.
 
In a game like EU, where every penny is planned for, there are still people who argue that someone activated buff accidentally. Sorry, but even when that argument is made in good faith, it's...well, kinda silly, naive.

If MA doesn't want to do the obvious thing and punish those who benefited, even if it's from MA's negligence, then what do we have here? At what point does MA do the right thing? Not punishing those who exploited the game is actually punishing all the other players who make this game fun and who play by the rules.
 
as someone who feels that I have been shifted down the placement ladder more than once because of this, I am waiting for MA decision and consequences for those cheaters. I will then decide what actions I will take.
 
I said above I would test this with a Yog Hatchling, which I had tamed just days before this exploit blew up and was levelling since. Yesterday it was ready and the buff unlocked. I briefly entered a Mayhem Annihilation instance, spawned it and activated the buff. Checked all mouse-over information on my existing buffs (from an Ares Ring Improved), nothing was added from the pet. Had heard someone saying somewhere that it got fixed by removing the ability to spawn it in the instance at all, which obviously is not true. But if the displayed information is correct, taking it along should at least be inconsequential now. I did not perform an actual shooting test since I have my ped card nearly depleted. Since I'm not invested in the current event, may I suggest someone else try it if still in doubt. Though at this juncture I find very little grounds for distrust that it is really fixed. Good luck to all participants.
 
I said above I would test this with a Yog Hatchling, which I had tamed just days before this exploit blew up and was levelling since. Yesterday it was ready and the buff unlocked. I briefly entered a Mayhem Annihilation instance, spawned it and activated the buff. Checked all mouse-over information on my existing buffs (from an Ares Ring Improved), nothing was added from the pet. Had heard someone saying somewhere that it got fixed by removing the ability to spawn it in the instance at all, which obviously is not true. But if the displayed information is correct, taking it along should at least be inconsequential now. I did not perform an actual shooting test since I have my ped card nearly depleted. Since I'm not invested in the current event, may I suggest someone else try it if still in doubt. Though at this juncture I find very little grounds for distrust that it is really fixed. Good luck to all participants.

The bugged buff was invisible and did not show on the active buffs. The only way to test it would have been to perform test-firing of a weapon and clock the shots before and after having the pet out with buff active.

This is why the buff went undetected by so many people for so long.

In order to accidently discover the buff one would have to be intimately familiar with the "normal" rate of fire on their weapon, indicative of a person who is primarily a hunter.

This eliminates the majority of people who primarily mine rather than hunt.

The high metabolic rate of the pet with the extractor bug active makes it cost prohibitive and therefor impractical to have the pet constantly spawned with the buff active. This impracticality is amplified by the fact that a pet's metabolic rate increases as the pet's level increases, without any added benefit.

This eliminates the majority of people who keep even a loose eye on practical matters such as PED expenditure per hour.

The most practical way to apply the Yog's intended benefit of enhanced extractor speed is to only spawn the pet during periods of mining extraction, and to de-spawn the pet during prolonged periods of down-time.

The up front price tag of a Yog Horror is significant. This means that the Yog Horror pet would be a late priority investment for any devoted miner who is looking to dial in their setup to have the most effective gear possible for mining, only purchased after the top end extractor has already been purchased.

The result of this series of deductions is a very small portion of the player base, resulting in the majority of the player base being unaware for such a long time.
 
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